BS: John Steinbeck (1902-1968)

Subject: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 10:12 PM

One of my favourite authors...anyone else like his work? I have one small problem, though...i've read all his books, and now there are none left...

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 10:24 PM

Have you read his short stories? And did you know that he wrote a lot of nonfiction? (Most conspicuous is The Log From the Sea of Cortez.) There is also some very interesting criticism out there, that can direct you to some of Steinbeck's touchstones.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 10:25 PM

Could you please tell me where his short stories can be found? I'd be very grateful:0)

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Amos
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 10:29 PM

Collections



Of Mice And Men and Short Stories (1937)

The Moon Is Down and Short Stories (1942)

The Short Novels of John Steinbeck (1953)

Steinbeck Novels and Stories 1932-1937 (1978)


(Do a Google search for +"John Steonbeck" +"short stopries" and you'll find all you want.)

A

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 10:33 PM

Thanks!

I just can't get enough of the guy...the way he can break your heart and reaffirm your faith in humanity in one sentence, and how he can evoke a landscape so well that you feel you're actually there...

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Peace
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 10:48 PM

http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/johnstei.htm


Worth looking here, BI.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 10:54 PM

thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 11:10 PM

He's one of my favorites too. Along with John Irving. The Johns. It's been years since I've read any of either of their books, and I've been thinking lately that I might have to revisit some of those experiences some time in the not too distant future.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 11:11 PM

I agree!!

Art

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 11:35 PM

The Long Valley has some of his best stories. "The Chrysanthemums" expresses a deep understanding of human nature, and of women's nature that few stories I've read capture so succinctly.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Peace
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 11:37 PM

That is a great short story. I use it often with my senior classes.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 11:54 PM

"The Vigilante" is another one that is particularly effective. This is saying a lot, considering how good all of those stories are, but it is quite memorable.

I read Travels With Charley many years ago, back when I was travelling around with a pet (cat, in this instance) and a pickup truck. It resonated well for me. But as others have observed, all of his books were good. Deep, and good. I re-read Cannery Row and Sweet Thursday every so often (I get them as books on tape--they're great company on road trips).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 12:00 AM

The thing I always loved about Steinbeck's writing was the relative absence of 'big' words. I did a statistical analysis of ten pages or so of words containing one, two three or four syllables. (That was over 22 years ago.) I recall that there were very few of four, fair number of three, lotsa two and one syllable words. The man could write clearly and with passion, and he never got hifalutin about it.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Deckman
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 12:04 AM

Rumor has it that one reason I married "Bride Judy" was because she has his complete collection. For our honeymoon, we took a Steinbeck trip and spent two weeks in the Salinas valley and Big Sur. We even slid a little bit of Robinson Jeffers in there also. I keep watching for him to come out with a new one ... but I'm beginning to wonder! CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 12:08 AM

Which? Jeffers (1887-1962) or Steinbeck (1902-1968)? :)

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 12:35 AM

i think that's what i love about him the most the way he captured human nature so perfectly, and how he used such simple language to do it.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 01:05 AM

Love the man's work. Must confess to a wee bit of umbrage at the prefix 'BS' in the thread title!   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 01:20 AM

I too have read the entire Steinbeck collection. I also read "The Steinbeck Letters" published by his wife. It chronicles his lifetime whilst he was writing all those wonderful stories.
I loved Tortilla Flats and Cannery Row. And although Grapes of Wrath is good, East of Eden is a masterpeice.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Amos
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 01:25 AM

East of Eden is perhaps the best American novel yet written.

There. I said it, and I'm GLAD.


A

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: John O'L
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 05:09 AM

I too love Steinbeck. Like the early Henry Lawson, you feel as if he's writing just for you alone. As if he knows you well enough that he can choose the words & sentences that you will most readily understand.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 09:02 AM

Normally, I'd pass this thread. Not that I don't like Steinbeck -- quite the contrary! -- but politics, religion, and literature are great ways, in my experience, to get into fights.

As a librarian, however, I feel it incumbent upon me to wade on it.

Okay. If your local library has a link to World Cat, use it check out Steinbeck's works. If you don't know aobut World Cat, it's a way to find out where the books you want to read are located. 23,000 libraries world-wide participate; there are 58 million bibliographic records in the database.

So let's say you want to read the first British edition of "Cannery Row." Just that edition. You can use World Cat to find out which libraries have it, and use this info to either go get it or! turn the information over to your friendly local library's Interlibrary Loan person. If you provide the OCLC (OCLC is the cooperative that runs World Cat and has been around since about 1969) number and bib data, Interlibrary Loan librarians will grovel at your feet and...well, maybe not that, but you'll make them very happy and demonstrate that you're a wonderful human being.

Now, your local library may not provide a link to World Cat or may not let you use it ("It's mine! All mine!"). Complain. Complain to the highest authority you can. Get others to complain. Eventually they'll give in. World Cat does have a learning curve, but it's not beyond the ability of a normally bright ten year old or anyone on Mudcat.

To get back to Steinbeck.

The John Steinbeck Library is located in Salinas, California. It is the main public library there and is open twenty-nine (29) hours per week, Tuesday through Saturday. The Cesar Chavez branch and the El Gabilan branch are open the same hours.

To put this into perspective, my library in Pocatello is open Monday through Saturday, 66 hours per week.

Why the difference, when Salinas is the larger city?

I urge you to go here.

Steinbeck would NOT be proud.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Deckman
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 09:33 AM

One of the funnier aspects of Steinbecks library, in my opinion, is that for many years the town fathers wanted NOTHING to do with Steinbeck, be it a library of preserving his home. Of course this was because in most of his writing, Steinbeck told the migrant workers side of the story, whereas most of the town fathers were the growers.

My memory tells me that this library has just recently opened and is somewhat viewed as a thron in the side of the town's shaker and movers.

SRS: We coupled our trip with Robinson Jeffers, the "Big Sur Poet." I've enjoyed all his poetry and plays and stories since I was about 20. We ended that part of the trip with a tour of "Tor House," which is now in downtown Carmel. CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Terry K
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 09:44 AM

Just to say, me too, read the lot. But why, oh why, did I plod through Log From the Sea of Cortez - a real bore. I think I was just afraid I might miss something.

I went to Monterey some years ago to try to get the spirit of Steinbeck. I recall they had painted some murals on the walls along Cannery Row which worked quite well. I decided Monterey might be a good place to retire to, but that was probably more to do with luxuries properties, stunning sea views and the local seal population.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Deckman
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 09:51 AM

I discovered Monterey in 1955, and Steinbeck had just left it. It was still somewhat active as a herring port. I really got a good feeling for the town and it's people. Of course I was helped a lot through the aquaintence of a local lass named Joy. Today, or at least last time was there a few years ago, it strikes me as just another tourist town trying to make a buck ... but then, aren't we all! Bob

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 11:12 AM

John said: you feel as if he's writing just for you alone. As if he knows you well enough that he can choose the words & sentences that you will most readily understand.

You've picked up on exactly what Steinbeck was doing. I read a portion of a letter published in a book a friend of mine wrote about Steinbeck. In this letter, a response to a fan, Steinbeck was answering his question about how he wrote. He wrote to a specific person, a friend, and he said he wrote his novels in such a way that he was telling a story to this friend. It kept the tone and the word choices more vernacular, less literary, but highly effective.

There are a number of very good Steinbeck Scholars. My friend, Louis Owens, was interviewed a few years ago on C-SPAN at the Steinbeck library, along with the library director and with Steinbeck's son, Thom. If you have access to Owens' free-standing essays, or his couple of books to do with Steinbeck's writing, you'll find a very approachable companion to Steinbeck's work. As Rapaire suggested, check WorldCat, or to narrow it down more specifically, the Modern Language Association (MLA) bibliography will list many of his works. They generally fall into his two specialties, Steinbeck and American Indian literature (Owens was Choctaw, Cherokee, and Irish, who grew up in the Salinas area when his family was on the west coast. They were migrant workers for many years, between Mississippi and California).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 12:14 PM

Edgar Rice Burroughs, author of Tarzan and the Barsoom novels, used to live in Pocatello -- he ran a stationary stationery store here.

Damned few people know that. The town could, possibly, profit from it.

Ambrose Bierce lived for quite a few years in Elkhart, Indiana. Again, the town could possibly profit from it.

I truly have no idea why towns view their connection with writers -- writers critical of the town or not -- with signs of shame and disgust. Heck, I'd sing it from the rooftops.

Sure, Steinbeck presented a true picture of conditions. But that's like finding out that one of your ancestors was a horse thief -- you might not be proud of it, but it is interesting and gives you a sort of cachet.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Once Famous
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 12:18 PM

Steinbeck's work set me on a track for the love of Americana. The world that he wrote about can still be seen in the shadows and ruins that can be found on the backroads of America.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Peter T.
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 02:33 PM

I spent last summer reading whole chunks of Steinbeck (I was really interested in Ed Ricketts), travelled to Monterey (a total tourist disaster except for the aquarium). I was surprised at how poorly the books stand up with the exception of the big three or four -- Grapes of Wrath, Of Mice and Men, Cannery Row, and a couple of others.   A book like Tortilla Flat is unreadable. East of Eden is like some Tyrannosauras Novelus, sloshing around in the La Brea tar pit. It is interesting that he is like Hemingway: when he isn't at the absolute top of his form, he is really mediocre. Probably because the idiosyncracies show up more when the cupboard is barer.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 04:02 PM

WHOA NELLY!

CarolC and Martin Gibson actually seeming to agree on something. Peace in the Middle East must be at hand.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 04:49 PM

Peter T, I have to disagree with your assessment of those novels. What kind of comparison are you doing and what are you asking them to "stand up" to? The fact that you weren't able to stick with them does not mean that the novels are mediocre. It simply means that the novels weren't a good fit and thus didn't interest you. There are many authors who expect their readers to do some work as they read, and who expect their readers to bring a level of understanding or the willingness to learn, as when students read these stories. Steinbeck, Hemingway, Faulkner, and many other Modernist authors (and poets) brought a sophisticated set of stories and archetypes from the classics and mythology and transformed elements of them into modern-day stories. Part of the charm and challenge of reading these novels is to see how they manage to do it.

I tried reading War and Peace, and found it too cumbersome to hold my interest, but that doesn't mean that I think it isn't a great novel. It means it doesn't suit my tastes and to attempt to read it wasn't a good match between reader and author.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Peter T.
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 05:05 PM

Oh, the usual things: are the characters cardboard, does the writer's reach exceed his grasp, are the obsessions of 1950 timeless or gone, etc.   In Steinbeck's case (like Hemingway's) as time passes, you can see the usual cast of characters arriving, perhaps with a new set of leotards, but nevertheless putting up the old familiar battered circus tent complete with the same tired old bears, weary elephants, and aging clowns, and you say to yourself: "Not this show again!"

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 06:00 PM

The difference between Hemingway and Steinbeck is that Steinbeck had something to say.

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 06:27 PM

I dare say, Peter, that the reason you recognize what was going on with Steinbeck (via similar stories you've seen or read that are more recent in origin) if you read it recently is that so many people have copied him that his tales are now very familiar to you. Perhaps they are diluted or disarmed in your view, but this wasn't always the case. You're working backward from the shallow immitations to the motherlode.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Peter T.
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 10:31 AM

I don't think so.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 12:22 PM

I had the privilege of spending some time at the Presidio of Monterey, just a few blocks' walk up the hill from Cannery Row. Peter T is right - the rush to garner sightseeing dollars whitewashed the gritty imagery of the area one came away with from reading Steinbeck's novel of the same name.

But occasionally, if you wandered off the beaten path, away from the pressing crowds, you could catch glimpses of Cannery artifacts overlooked by the tourist commission. A rusty eyebolt sticking out of the ground or a grimy cogwheel propped against the wall of a dilapidated warehouse was enough impetus to the imagination to flesh out the scenes of blue collar trials and tribulations Steinbeck so artfully described.

The sound of ships' bells in the harbor, the foghorns at night wafting across Monterey Bay, and the mass of sea lions barking as they soak up noon day sun on the jetties - all provided inspiration for the artistic muses that reside within us. I could feel why Steinbeck was moved to put pen to paper. I probably attempted more artistic endeavors in the seven months I was there than at any other time.

   

"Travels With Charley" is primarily responsible for a wanderlust I have never quite been able to overcome.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 01:31 PM

Many years back, when I had been immersing myself in a lot of Steinbeck and Ray Bradbury, I read a short story about a swimming pool into which people were throwing the statuary from around the edges of the pool during the night, only to be fetched out the next day by the pool's caretaker. This happened every night. At some point, someone asked the caretaker why he kept doing this over and over, with no end to the nonesense in sight, and he replied something along the lines of this, "There's the ones who throw things in, and then there's the ones who take them back out".

Does anyone know if this was from Steinbeck, and which story or book if it was? Or who it was from if not Steinbeck?

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 05:49 PM

...I guess everybody is off to find an answer to your question, CarolC. I hope they have better luck than I. Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 05:55 PM

I don't recognize it.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Peter T.
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 10:33 PM

I thought it was amusing in a macabre sort of way that the trolley cars in Monterey always refer to the train crossing where Ed Ricketts was killed -- "a great loss to biology" as the potted speech they give puts it. He would have laughed.

The part I was most moved by was my bus ride to Salinas one morning, where in every field, as far as the eye could see, the hordes of workers were coming down off trucks, or gathered around trucks getting their orders for the day.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: EBarnacle
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 12:58 AM

I have been reading him at leisure over the past few years, about 1 book per year. Go ahead and envy my discoveries.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 11:29 AM

...yeah, I remember that too. A distinctively poignant memory. I think they were harvesting artichokes. It was early morning and the dew had not yet burned off. There was still a bit of a chill in the air and the workers were wet.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 08:23 AM

How do you feel Steinbeck stacks up agains Mark Twain?

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: EBarnacle
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 09:07 AM

Why not add Melville into the comparison? All of these comparisons are artificial. It's like comparing diamonds. They have flaws which make them individuals. They are also excellent.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Peter T.
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 09:46 AM

It's true. All those great American novels have flaws, but like flaws in some mammoth piece of sculpted marble, who cares? Moby Dick is wild, Melville would have failed Composition 101, but who ever wanted one page less of it? Look at Faulkner, masterpieces and potboilers, Caddies and corncobs. My favourite American novel is hugely flawed: Tender is the Night. The second half is a mess. But the first half is completely amazing, life caught fluttering in a jar. The last thirty pages of Huck Finn are not in the same league as the rest, but oh that rest!

Is there a perfect American novel? Well, maybe The Great Gatsby. It seems to have been written by God.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 10:24 AM

Twain should have stopped at chapter 12 in Huck Finn. The rest was something his publisher wanted tacked on.

Lists get odious, and defining "the" greatest novel will never satisfy even a few.

Invisible Man is incredible, as are Blood Meridian and The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford. They have nothing in common except exemplary writing and story telling. Doesn't mean they're always my favorites--these things shift according to mood. Go Down, Moses and House Made of Dawn are a couple of standards in my collection. Steinbeck's books easily hold their own with any other American masters.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 03:23 PM

Huck Finn is probably the greatest book I will ever read. Steinbeck was pretty damned good though. I read a lovely, brooding novel called, "The Winter of Our Discontent". It is not in the same league as his greatest hits, so to speak, but the characters and the mood of small town America are still with me many years later. That passes for good writing in my book.
Just a little anecdote in passing...
When I asked Klaus der Geiger to play on my first album, I took along a rough mix and a copy of the lyrics to the song. I have always been a little in awe of the man. He can be a very fiery character and he has a mighty intellect behind his ragged appearance. (You would not know by looking at him that his history included spells with both the Boston and LA Philharmonic). His English is now a little shaky, so I sat nervously while he listened to the song and read the lyrics. He asked a few questions. He then said, "It's like a Steinbeck story, isn't it?" I'll be proud of that all my days!

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 09:44 PM

I don't know of any perfect work of literature. "Huck" comes close, but then so does "Cien A~nos de Soledad." "Grapes" is also right up there.

Humans are flawed, and it's reflected in their works. We can admire the best we can do, though.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 10:29 PM

Rapaire, I loved that one--I read it when it first came out and I was an undergraduate--what an eye opener. At around the same time The French Lieutenant's Woman was also making waves. Both excellent books. A writer friend I admire tremendously told me that those two books were the ones that really shook him up, and decided him on becoming a writer. I could see why.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Midchuck
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 01:52 PM

A great quote...

And perhaps a man brought out his guitar to the front of his tent. And he sat on a box to play, and everyone in the camp moved slowly in toward him, drawn in toward him. Many men can chord a guitar, but perhaps this man was a picker. There you have something - the deep chords beating, beating, while the melody runs on the strings like little footsteps. Heavy hard fingers marching on the frets. The man played and the people moved slowly in on him until the circle was closed and tight, and then he sang "Ten Cent Cotton and Forty Cent Meat." And the circle sang softly with him. And he sang "Why Do You Cut Your Hair, Girls?" And the circle sang. He wailed the song "I'm Leaving Old Texas," that eerie song that was sung before the Spaniards came, only the words were Indian then.

And now the group was welded to one thing, one unit, so that in the dark the eyes of the people were inward, and their minds played in other times, and their sadness was like rest, like sleep. He sang the "McAlester Blues" and then, to make it up to the older people, he sang "Jesus Calls Me to His Side." The children drowsed with the music and went into the tents to sleep, and the singing came into their dreams.
And after a while the man with the guitar stood up and yawned. Good night, folks, he said.

And they murmured, Good night to you.

And each wished he could pick a guitar, because it is a gracious thing.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: John Steinbeck
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 11:37 AM

I think Don accidentally left an empty post (now deleted), but it was a real pleasure to reread this old thread. And interesting that just yesterday in the mail I received a copy of a book I'd been meaning to check out of the library (but I can't go into that library now because of COVID-19). I got smart and looked online and Bookfinder listed it for $6, including shipping.

There are several books in the Twayne series of literary scholarship and criticism that deal with Steinbeck. John Steinbeck: A Study of the Short Fiction on pages 143-46, has a sub-chapter called "Steinbeck's Advice on Writing and His Further Discussion of Craftsmanship" that includes some quotes from Steinbeck's correspondence with friends and readers. For example, he writes to a friend suffering writer's block and suggests he shift over "to write poetry—not for selling—not even for seeing—poetry to throw away. For poetry is the mathematics of writing and closely kin to music. And it is also the best therapy because sometimes the troubles come tumbling out."

A longer section I won't enter here (pgs. 144-45) gives more detail about overcoming writer's block, about abandoning the idea you'll never finish, write rapidly without rewriting to start with, and don't have a generalized audience in mind. Have one particular person who you would tell a story to, explain something to them. (I follow this and in graduate school many of my papers were written as if I was telling this information to my friend Pam.) He also includes a version of "murder your darlings" - the paragraph that becomes too precious is usually the thing that doesn't fit the rest of the work and must go.

I wanted this book because I had just two photocopied pages with the advice and wanted to see the full citations for his sources, some probably mentioned here in this thread, published letters, etc. I'm planning to reread the short stories again one of these days (they're on my short stack of "to read" books). A lot of times these books are discarded by libraries, as was this thrift store copy. Too bad, the information is still germane. (They may have discarded it if they have access to an e-book version.)

The Steinbeck Library and the National Steinbeck Center (opened in 1998) is a shrine-like museum, I have a friend who worked there for many years as an artist in residence of sorts, and the Steinbeck city library has much longer hours (truncated now due to COVID-19, as has hit libraries across the land).