Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Steve Shaw Date: 26 Dec 17 - 06:00 AM Raggytash, once in a while Lidl sell magna (pretentious, moi?) of Nero d'Avola for £7.99. I have a goodly stash. I avoid retail emporia like the plague on Christmas Day and Boxing Day, but tomorrow's another day... |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: punkfolkrocker Date: 26 Dec 17 - 07:35 AM ..anyways.. disgraced tory MPs seem to float like shite and never flush away.. Dodgy Damian is bound to bounce straight back into the usual high paid establishment career, or even join the rest of them with lucrative post dismissal TV appearances cashing in on the infamy... |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Steve Shaw Date: 26 Dec 17 - 09:07 AM He seems more than just dodgy to me! Cue rants about dodgy antisemitic Labour bullies... |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: bobad Date: 26 Dec 17 - 09:40 AM Cue rants about dodgy antisemitic Labour bullies... Nah, you're not worth ranting about. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Steve Shaw Date: 26 Dec 17 - 09:45 AM Heheh. Didn't take long, did It! |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: bobad Date: 26 Dec 17 - 10:11 AM Heheh gotcha! |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 Dec 17 - 04:07 AM Steve, if you were capable of making a good case and demolishing mine you would do it. Switching to personal stuff is an admission that you have no argument. That is an inadequacy. You can not answer what I actually say so you pretend I said something else. I give quotes and reply to them. You can't. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: punkfolkrocker Date: 27 Dec 17 - 06:08 AM Keith - do you have the digital equivalent of one of those personalised rubber stamp and inkpad kits where you can instantly print preprepared slogans and statements on postcards and lables to your hearts content...??? I'd have one saying "oh for f@cks sake, give it a rest !!!" and an alternative saying "if you say so.. would you like a mug of coco and a nice lie down now"... |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Dec 17 - 08:42 AM Please explain to this forum, Keith, why you are calling for the reinstatement of one of the most serially abusive people ever to post here. Otherwise, just shut up. You'll get nowhere with me and you know it. Now back to Damian Green, eh? |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Backwoodsman Date: 27 Dec 17 - 01:23 PM "Please explain to this forum, Keith, why you are calling for the reinstatement of one of the most serially abusive people ever to post here." You know my opinion already - the bugger's already here, posing as 'Iains'. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Dec 17 - 04:52 PM Two cheeks of the same arse. Ignore. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Backwoodsman Date: 27 Dec 17 - 04:59 PM Absoluement! |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Iains Date: 27 Dec 17 - 05:44 PM Good to see the mudrats gnawing in unison. I hope your union dues are up to date! |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Dec 17 - 05:55 PM Shhh...! |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Dec 17 - 04:19 AM why you are calling for the reinstatement of one of the most serially abusive people ever to post here. There are more abusive people who have not been excluded. It diminishes the forum if people are removed for holding views that many here do not agree with, even though they are legitimate and widely held views. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Steve Shaw Date: 28 Dec 17 - 04:42 AM No-one has been excluded from this forum simply for expressing contrary views. That is a slur against the moderators. Perhaps you're confusing this with what your Tories try to do (ask Heseltine). Your friend's abuse frequency was way higher than anyone else's. That's why he's not here and you know it. Stop bleating about this and make an honest man of yourself, and stop calling for the reinstatement of a man whose abuses you are excusing only because you're a fellow-traveller of his. It wouldn't be half so bad if you weren't constantly whingeing about how you think people abuse YOU all the time. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: punkfolkrocker Date: 28 Dec 17 - 04:55 AM I'll be honest my default stance on 'safe spacing' tends to agree with keith... Though I'll modify his aguement and delete the bit I seriously disagree with... "It diminishes the forum if people are removed for holding views that many here do not agree with, even though they are ___ widely held views." If we don't have polarising opposing villains to confront and challenge.. a forum might stagnate, and we may well eventually just end up squabbling anodyne 'fine points and distinctions' amongst ourselves..........????? |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: punkfolkrocker Date: 28 Dec 17 - 05:00 AM ..and further honesty, in light of cross posting with Steve.. If Keith and Iains are the only villains we have left, that's pathetic.. we need proper 'baddies' we can rise up to and sink our teeth in, and test our fighting skills against.. K & I are just too feeble and easy, it's not a fair fight.... |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Dec 17 - 05:05 AM K & I are just too feeble and easy, it's not a fair fight.... So why can you not quote anything I have got wrong, or challenge anything I have actually posted? I do it to you people all the time. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: punkfolkrocker Date: 28 Dec 17 - 05:53 AM Because frankly I don't care, or can be bothered wasting time playing your attention seeking game... It's not so much what you say [i'm not that easily shocked or offended..] it's how, and the interminally repetetative forum spamming OCD way you drive us up the wall saying it... |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Iains Date: 28 Dec 17 - 06:06 AM "Two cheeks of the same arse. Ignore." Trying to emulate the gutter press shaw? Why not go back to a riveting discussion of weeds and cheap booze? You and your packmates seem to have done Damien Green to death. I suggest you go to Akela and ask pretty please for a new topic to attempt to monopolise. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Iains Date: 28 Dec 17 - 07:36 AM Damien Green- The wider issues. Just imagine the squeals if Diane Abbot has received similar treatment from the Tories. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1090062/Terror-Tory-MPs-daughter-NINE-anti-terror-police-raid-home-immigration-leaks-med |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: punkfolkrocker Date: 28 Dec 17 - 07:44 AM Happy New Year Iains !!! That'll be 2018 in case you need reminding.. seeing as you are spending so much time dwelling in the past dredging up Daily Mail articles from donkey's years ago... |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Raggytash Date: 28 Dec 17 - 08:13 AM There is one pertinent quote in that article that is relevant to the Brexit discussion and it comes from George Osborne. "I think to hide information from the public is wrong" Perhaps he could repeat this to David Davis and Philip Hammond who are busy withholding impact reports not only from the public but from Parliament. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Iains Date: 28 Dec 17 - 09:48 AM pfr let me remind you the Danmien Green affair revolved around events that occurred in April 2009. This was when the police bullied their way into Parliament and searched his office without a search warrant. All subsequent events stem from this. Maybe anything occurring more than a week ago is too much for you to take in, but you may take my word for it. As Martin said to his man "who is the fool now"? |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: punkfolkrocker Date: 28 Dec 17 - 10:04 AM Desperately raking over the past.. blah..blah..blah... The pertinent matter, what really counts, is that he got sacked for his lies last week...!!!!! Though, maybe you are not going far enough back into his grimy past.. Maybe you should give more attention to what Green did in the days before the cops had their attention drawn to his devious behaviour... Funny how the tories only call the police 'bullies' when they are not obeying tory high command direct orders to harass left leaning citizens...????? |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Dec 17 - 10:16 AM what Green did in the days before the cops had their attention drawn to his devious behaviour... No devious behaviour was uncovered. It is not devious to look at legal porn, which he denies anyway. The police behaviour could be described as devious. Labour's Keir Starmer, then the Director of Public Prosecutions, found that the accusations against him were false. The leaks did not expose any secret information (unlike Bob Quick's) and did not involve national security (unlike Quick's incompetence.) There was no justification for the raids on Green's offices and his home. He should never have been imprisoned or even questioned. Deviant police behaviour. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: punkfolkrocker Date: 28 Dec 17 - 10:35 AM Kieth - ok... seeing as it's the festive season.. let's play "what if".. What if the real masterminds behind Green's humiliating public downfall & dismissal are right wing tories plotting a leadership coupe against the Prime Minister. And in doing so, setting up the left, and more inependant minded police to take the blame....??? Far fetched..??? but well within the realms of Machiavellian tory possibilities... Now that's what I'd call proper tory treachery, that's the quality of tories I'd respect as real arch villains..... |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Iains Date: 28 Dec 17 - 10:42 AM "Desperately raking over the past.. blah..blah..blah..." What a wonderfully crafted, reasoned response! I am surprised you bother. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: punkfolkrocker Date: 28 Dec 17 - 11:00 AM well.. I got bored waiting to have a shit.. it killed a few minutes... But now I've had a fair clear out, I'm off to either watch a good old 2nd world war movie, or fall asleep on the sofa.. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: punkfolkrocker Date: 28 Dec 17 - 11:07 AM ...ooh.. before I go.. must recommend "Their Finest (2016)" A WW2 movie that's an interesting tale of wartime propaganda, which is at times hilarious and affecting, the wife was in tears.. much better than the recent "Whiskey Galore" and "Dad's Army" remakes.. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Iains Date: 28 Dec 17 - 12:46 PM I'm going to watch "The Iron Lady" I heard a rumour the pope is going to canonize her. Perhaps she will be known as St. Thatcher of the mines. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 Dec 17 - 01:37 PM "It is not devious to look at legal porn," I see the lady who was offered a career boost in return for sex has been forgotten in the festivities Now what happened to Harvey Weinstein when he was found doing that!!!! Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: punkfolkrocker Date: 28 Dec 17 - 01:38 PM We know old boy tories prefer their wives in the kitchen with an iron in their hand.. but surely that can't be much of a movie.. still.. whaterver floats yer yacht...!!!??? |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 Dec 17 - 02:42 PM "wives in the kitchen with an iron in their hand.." Get it right PFR Bending over with an iron in her hand Nothing more sexually stimulating to those boys than women who know where they should be and when Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 29 Dec 17 - 05:38 AM Jim, Now what happened to Harvey Weinstein when he was found doing that!!!! There is no comparison between the two cases. In Green's case there was no sexual activity in hotel bedrooms or anywhere else. She claims only a "fleeting" touch to her knee in a busy pub. She claims only "suggestive" not explicit comments following the publication of a picture of her in underwear, and that was a year later. She then waited two years to go public. He denies the claims. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Jim Carroll Date: 29 Dec 17 - 06:50 AM "There is no comparison between the two cases." OIf course there is Keith In both cases sex was demanded for assistance to the career of the women Iwhere do you think Green's sex would have taken place head his demands been met on the kitchen table "She claims only a "fleeting" touch to her knee in a busy pub."#] She also claims that sex was suggested as a step up her career ladder In the cases of both Green and Weinstein is was the exact same situation where someone of power and influence asking for se3x in return for favours "She then waited two years to go public." Most women are afriad to report sexual offences because of the backlash it involves them and their faimilies in Of course he denies the charges, just as he denied the pornography# He is a proven liar whose cover has just been blown Why are you continuing to defend this garbage? Rhetorical question - it is because you are what you are a cap-doffing toady to the powerful with a touch of misogyny thrown in JIm Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Steve Shaw Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:05 AM The Cabinet Office enquiry found Kate Maltby's account to be plausible. That is hardly likely to be said by a Tory-led enquiry unless there is substance. "She claims only "suggestive" not explicit comments following the publication of a picture of her in underwear, and that was a year later." No she did not "claim" this. The actual text message that he sent is well and truly in the public domain. Not a claim, Keith. A fact. "She then waited two years to go public." She did not "wait" in the sense you are insinuating. As Jim says, it is a very difficult matter for individual women to make these accusations. She herself has already reaped a whirlwind in the form of a scurrilous article in the Mail excoriating her character, which is suspected of having been encouraged by Green and/or his allies. "He denies the claims." No he does not. He has apologised for making her feel uncomfortable. Therefore he has, in essence, accepted the substance of her account of their relationship. If you deal in the truth instead of msking all this up, Keith, we could feasibly discuss it with you. But you are clearly on a Green's side and dismiss Maltby's account, throwing more than a dash of misogyny into the mix. Disgraceful behaviour. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:18 AM Jim, In both cases sex was demanded for assistance to the career of the women How do you know this Jim? No such evidence has become public. Why are you continuing to defend this garbage? I do not. I just expect evidence before assuming guilt. Is there any? That is hardly likely to be said by a Tory-led enquiry unless there is substance. It is an independent Civil Service enquiry. Did we need an enquiry to tell us the claim was "plausible?" No evidence that it is true however. No he does not (deny her claims). Yes he does. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:22 AM Mr Green said it was "absolutely and completely untrue that I've ever made any sexual advances on Ms Maltby". His text was sent in the spirit of "two friends agreeing to meet up for a regular catch-up", he said, adding: "This untrue allegation has come as a complete shock and is deeply hurtful, especially from someone I considered a personal friend." |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Dave the Gnome Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:29 AM From the "Yorkshire Post" last Friday. When Mr Green resigned on Wednesday he said he did not recognise Ms Maltby's version of events, stating: "I deeply regret the distress caused to Kate Maltby following her article about me and the reaction to it. "I do not recognise the events she described in her article, but I clearly made her feel uncomfortable and for this I apologise." Not much of denial. DtG |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:34 AM Dave, Mr Green said it was "absolutely and completely untrue that I've ever made any sexual advances on Ms Maltby". |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Dave the Gnome Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:39 AM I clearly made her feel uncomfortable and for this I apologise |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Jim Carroll Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:43 AM "No such evidence has become public." The accusation has been made by a fellow Tory - there is no reason to believe a lying porn user such as Green rather than a Tory activist "I just expect evidence before assuming guilt." Just as you expected the same evidence about the policemen you accused of being "tainted" before Green confessed that he was lying and they were actually telling the truth, do you mean? He denies it, and there is no evidence for it except the claims, ten years later, of ex-cops with a grudge. "It is an independent Civil Service enquiry." There is no guarantee on any such thing - certainly not now The British Justice system is probably best summed up by one of its most common phrases "you get the best defence money can buy" Green's accuser, should she take the matter to court, will need to prepare herself for the same ordeal a rape victim is forced to undergo She will be accused of offering sex for career favours and her own sexual history will be put on display for th world to view - that is why sex crimes and harassment are left unreported in the numbers they are. Unless she is a very principled individual prepared to make sacrifices, she is likely to settle out of court, (at best) or more likely, forget the matter altogether and we will have to put up with the likes of Green who make the laws and decide the direction this country takes There is a bit of a revolution going on at present regarding the abuse of power for sexual gains - it started with the exposure of the extent of clerical abuses, moved on to Savile's crimes, and is now reaching into many corners of the great and the good Green is just a small part of what is happening - watch this space, plenty more to come yet. Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:44 AM Making someone feel uncomfortable is not much of an offence, and he apologised for it anyway. He denies her claims about anything more reprehensible. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:48 AM Jim, The accusation has been made by a fellow Tory - there is no reason to believe a lying porn user such as Green rather than a Tory activist I thought they were all liars Jim. It was a fellow Labour person who accused Clive Lewis of groping her intimately, and Labour's enquiry cleared him. In Green's case was have an unsubstantiated allegation, that he denies, of merely a fleeting touch to the knee and "suggestive" texts a year later. |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Jim Carroll Date: 29 Dec 17 - 09:35 AM "I thought they were all liars Jim." If you believe that, why are you defending one of them with the veracity that you are? In this case, Green's victim has no reason to lie and has every reason not to Green is a proven liar on the subject of his sexual proclivities And again, you reduce this to "a touch of the knee" and ignore the sex messages and suggestions of career advancement for sex Neither seem important enough for you to find worthy of comment, which is exactly why we have such a disgraceful number of cases of sexual harassment and actual assaults and even rapes by the great and the good now being made public It is attitudes like yours that have made modern society the dangerous place it has become for women I suspect the women in your live have managed to avoid the effects of the Greens and the Weinsteins of this world - your complacent and actual support for these people suggest that they have been lucky enough to do so. You really are something else Keith Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Jim Carroll Date: 29 Dec 17 - 09:57 AM "It was a fellow Labour person who accused Clive Lewis of groping her intimately, and Labour's enquiry cleared him." Incidentally Keith, unlike you, I don't give two monkeys what particular shade of politics the particular offender comes from - it is the offence that is important Lewis was cleared by an enquiry - not a great deal more to be said without knowing the facts Green was found to be a liar on the matter of his sexual behaviour and was forced to resign yet you continue to defend him That says everything then needs to be said about you Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 29 Dec 17 - 10:37 AM ignore the sex messages and suggestions of career advancement for sex No "sex messages" have been produced and there is no evidence for any sexual harassment. Lewis was cleared by an enquiry - not a great deal more to be said without knowing the facts Yes he was, so they decided she was lying about being groped, so we should be careful about always believing such accusations which in this case do not involve anything more than a touch, "so fleeting as to be almost deniable" and only on the knee and in a public place. So I ask again Jim,how do you know this? No such evidence has become public. Why do you assume he is guilty? |
Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green From: Jim Carroll Date: 29 Dec 17 - 11:21 AM "Why do you assume he is guilty?" Why did you assume the "ex cops bore a grudge" - or are you alone in being able to draw conclusions? ""so fleeting as to be almost deniable" and only on the knee and in a public place." And once more you refuse to even acknowledge the offers of sex for promotion if a woman's record of sexual activity didn't come up to scratch it would go against her in court (a man's wouldn't) The man is a proven liar with a track record of harassing text messages. Doesn't mean a thing to you, does it Keith? Jim Carroll |