BS: Damian Green

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 03:28 PM

Tory party Anthem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4iItGNCHsw

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 03:38 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains - PM
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 12:22 PM

John 8:7


https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/new-survey-of-porn-use-shows-startling-stats-for-men-and-women

How many reading this have watched no porn on their own computers? "
i NEVER WATCH ANY PORN

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 03:48 PM

I watch it you old prudes, but I'm very choosey...

..same as with folk music.. only a few percent of it is any good and worth enjoying..

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 03:53 PM

"Like your view on pornography, that fact that many people do it doesn't make it any less wrong"

It is not illegal for adults in the uk to watch pornography on a computer
If not illegal how is it wrong?

And how do you know what my views on pornography are? Just more made up shit by jom. (cue the red paintbrush)

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 04:01 PM

Your resort to denial is staggering, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 05:11 PM

You threw this out as a challenge to us, Iains:

"How many reading this have watched no porn on their own computers?"

It's clear from several of the responses that you are not in touch with the Mudcat zeitgeist. It's also clear that you want us all to chime with your own personal predilections. How disappointing it must be for you to hear that a good few of us are absolutely not with you when it comes to your porn habit. Still, as has been well said, that's your business.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 05:26 PM

"I watch it you old prudes, but I'm very choosey..."

Ha! My wife creased up when I told her I'd been called a 'prude' - she, better than anyone else, knows that, whatever else I may be, prudish I most definitely am not! But I've always believed that sex, like sport, is infinitely more interesting when you're a participant than when you're merely a spectator....

But whatever floats yer boat, old buddy!

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 05:50 PM

Backwoodsman - yeah... mudcat's a bit more one dimensional and black and white without my favourite emoticons denoting irony and sarcasm...

Hang on, let's try again..

This'll either be cheeky blinky sticky out tongue emoticon or boring question marks...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 05:51 PM

??

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 05:52 PM

Oh well....

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 05:58 PM

"But I've always believed that sex, like sport, is infinitely more interesting when you're a participant than when you're merely a spectator...."

You're only saying that because you didn't see Liverpool slaughtering Brighton 5-1 yesterday. But when it comes to the sex I'm right with you.

Well not you personally...


Shit...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 02:57 AM

It's OK Steve, I get the drift! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 03:57 AM

" It's also clear that you want us all to chime with your own personal predilections. How disappointing it must be for you to hear that a good few of us are absolutely not with you when it comes to your porn habit. Still, as has been well said, that's your business."

Resorting to insults without any evidence to back it up. What does that say about the man? I assume you have drunk too much of that cheap booze you are always boasting about. Allegations require evidence in order to be substantiated. Where is yours?
I see you are copying your fellow mudrat with more made up shit.
As I have said many times shaw. You are a fool.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 04:32 AM

Steve,
Your resort to denial is staggering, Keith.

Your resort to false claims is staggering, Steve.
Nothing was found in the police raids on Green's office or his home.
Your claim was not true.

If pornography was found it was not reported at the time so it was clearly perfectly legal if it even existed.

No allegation even of dishonesty was made against Green at the time. You made that up too. Staggering!

DMcG, a current minister on TV said that minions do use his office computer and even write emails in his name.
He said that is common practise.
He also said that no-one could sit using porn for hours in such an office.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 04:36 AM

NOT JUST a WATCHER
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 04:37 AM

Just more made up shit by jom

I can understand you channeling Teribus in his absence, Iains, but there is no need to mimic Keith as well. He is still here.

FWIW I think all Tory MPs should watch as much porn as possible. May stop them fucking the country.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 04:37 AM

NOT JUST a WATCHER

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 05:23 AM

So D the G you support the made up shit by your little packmates do you? That makes you equally as despicable.
When reasoned argument fails, it is time to resort to insults.
The tactics of the mudrats!

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 05:38 AM

"The tactics of the mudrats!"
Infinitely preferable to subtituting personal abuse for intelligent answers Iains
Will you never understand that your own behaviour sets you up as a total inarticulate, ill brought up moron
Grow up
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 05:49 AM

Not an insult, Iains. A perfectly justified inference. If you throw out a challenge of this nature:

"How many reading this have watched no porn on their own computers?"

...then it's clear that you're trying to exonerate Green (and presumably yourself) by making the use of porn on computers as anodyne and normal a thing as eating your cornflakes or going for a wee (shame that you caused a mini-uprising of Mudcat members who are totally not with you, eh?). In any case, as you clearly think that using porn is a perfectly fine thing to do, how is it an insult to suggest that it's part of your personal repertoire? As a matter of fact, if anyone's insulting anybody, it's you suggesting via the above remark that "we're all at it." But we're not bitter. We're just unsurprised, knowing you as we do, that you have shown yourself to be completely out of touch with the overall ethos here.

Yours amusedly, Steve, stone cold sober mudratter, come up and see my computer any time.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 05:54 AM

"Nothing was found in the police raids on Green's office or his home."

In the absence of emojees, hopefully temporary, I've made up a title for a new folk song. It's called "ROT MY FLAY-O."

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 06:03 AM

Cracking good letter in the Guardian this morning.

"If David Davis is threatening to resign if Damian Green is forced out (Report, 2 December), is this a case of Sack One Dismiss One For Free (Sodoff)?"

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 06:05 AM

Guardian article linked to above by Ians,

" In the course of the raid, which involved 20 officers and extended to Green?s home and car, Green?s computers were seized and opened.
No further action was taken and the incident caused outrage on both sides at Westminster. This led some of the police officers to resent the criticism. One of them, though he had been ordered to destroy the seized computer archive, copied it and has since revealed its pornographic contents to the media.
When challenged as to why no action was taken on the pornography, former Metropolitan police commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson correctly pointed out that it had nothing to do with the case. It involved ?no criminality, no victims, no vulnerability?. There was nothing extreme, illegal or involving children or abuse, and therefore no public interest, no matter how improper one may consider viewing pornography at work. Nonetheless Green, who denies all the accusations, is now at risk of losing his job and his career under a general hue and cry.

The idea that the police, on the orders of an opposing political party, can invade an MP?s office and seize and disclose to the public any material it hopes might blacken his name is worthy of a totalitarian regime. Even if there was cause to suspect document theft, the purloining of unrelated material against a rainy day is hardly ethical policing."

So Steve, your claims against Green were lies.
Staggering!

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 06:09 AM

Steve,
"Nothing was found in the police raids on Green's office or his home."
In the absence of emojees, hopefully temporary, I've made up a title for a new folk song. It's called "ROT MY FLAY-O."

What do you claim was found then, liar?
What emojee illustrates your use of lies and false accusation?
What exactly is wrong with my statement, "Nothing was found?"

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 06:17 AM

So D the G you support the made up shit by your little packmates do you?

Where have I said I support anything? What made up shit and what little packmates? Your grasp of what goes on is equaled only by your lack of originality.

As to When reasoned argument fails, it is time to resort to insults. That is pretty rich coming from the abuser in chief himself. If you will excuse the phrase considering the circumstances. You couldn't make this shit up.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 06:26 AM

Dave,
Where have I said I support anything?

Every post you have made here has been supportive of Remain.
Do you not support Remain?

What made up shit and what little packmates?

That might refer to Steve's claims that Green has been found "dishonest" and that the police found incriminating "documents" in his possession. Steve made both up. They are blatant lies Dave.
Do you dissociate yourself from them or not?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 06:33 AM

I do support remaining in the EU. WTF has that got to do with Damian Green's liking for pornography?

I neither associate nor disassociate myself with anyone else's views on Mudcat. There is no such thing as 'little packmates'. Do you approve of Iains's constant abuse and invective?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 06:40 AM

So fat all we have is allegations from disgraced former policemen besmirching their office, and by their own admission, in a flagrant breach of the data protection act. In addition they are guilty of politicization of the police. One of them, Quick, was the one that caused a political crisis by searching an Mp's office in Parliament without even a search warrant.
A man with a grudge, no morals and in desperate need of slinging in jail.
It is also known that no charges resulted against Green as a result of all this activity.
This was all on the watch of Labour's one eyed brown.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 06:42 AM

What "incriminating" documents have I ever mentioned? Rot My Flay-o!

Found nothing? Thousands of porn files equals nothing? Rot My Bleedin' Flay-o!

Not dishonest? Even if it were remotely possible that he didn't download them himself, he can't NOT have known they were there. But instead of making a massive stink he kept silent. He's lying when he says he didn't know anything about them. As things stand we have to accept the remote possibility that someone else downloaded the files to his computer. Ha bloody ha.

In the last couple of days I've asked several people what they would do if they found that someone had downloaded porn to their computer. The universal answer is that they would have gone bloody ballistic and made a bloody great big raving stink about it.

Let's see if he threatens to sue for defamation. I should bloody coco!

Good piece in today's Guardian about all this by Matthew d'Ancona. "If Damian Green harassed a woman or lied, he must go." And he's been a consistent defender of Green for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 06:45 AM

"One-eyed Brown?" Jayz, that sez all there needs to be said about you, Iains. Do you kick cripples' crutches away in the street too?

For the record, neither policeman left the force in disgrace.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Stu
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 06:56 AM

Something of nothing, would be wealth with if parliament had a functioning HR dept or equivalent that could oversee this sort of rubbish.

It's quite possible that Green didn't know porn had been viewed on his computer as many people had access to it; happens in offices all the time, every single day. People share log in details and passwords all the time. Even if Green was viewing porn on his works computer then he deserves a slap on the wrist, it's hardly a hanging offence.

The policeman is a suspect character that has gone public rather than reported this to his superiors. I wonder about his motives.

Mind you, this sort of think keeps a certain type of person distracted from actual news by provoking pseudo-moral outrage. Strange that, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 06:57 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/01/damian-green-decade-long-feud-met-officer-bob-quick

Position untenable = disgrace in my book.

Perhaps to a sandal wearing weidie beardy like you it means something different.
Rather like your constant confusion between allegation and fact on this thread.

"Do you kick cripples' crutches away in the street too?"

What a pathetic little fellow you are Shaw. Your babbling run out of road so you resort to insults again?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 06:59 AM

Definitely channeling Keith as well as terbus now.

Different morality
Different language
Different planet

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 07:02 AM

I am not surprised that beer and porn are the leading popular threads

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 07:29 AM

The policeman hasn't got any superiors. He's retired. And your attitude to people with disabilities is disgusting. I'd like to hear any of your comrades here defend that despicable, gratuitous "one-eyed Brown" comment. Christ knows why you feel you have to do that sort of thing.

It's not so much about the porn, Stu, though you are trivialising it a bit too much in my view. It's more about the integrity and honesty of the man who is May's second-in-command. Read d'Ancona's Guardian article. It may well be that the policeman decided to blow the whistle after he'd he heard about sex-pest allegations (by a Tory woman!) against Green. He went public a few days after that came out. It. Is fully in the public interest that this bloke is investigated, and the establishment furore is just so bloody fake and so predictable. I see we have Cressida Dick throwing the protecting veil around Green now. Well she knows all about the establishment rushing to one's aid, doesn't she?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 08:36 AM

Dave,
I do support remaining in the EU. WTF has that got to do with Damian Green's liking for pornography?

I am sorry. My mind was on another thread.

I should have said,

Every post you have made here has been against Green.
Do you support his position or not?
If you have no opinion, what are you doing here?

What made up shit and what little packmates?

That might refer to Steve's claims that Green has been found "dishonest" and that the police found incriminating "documents" in his possession. Steve made both up. They are blatant lies Dave.

Is it OK to lie to support a case?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 08:45 AM

Every post you have made here has been against Green.

I don't recall saying anything either for or against his use of porn. If I did, can you link me to it or is it just more made up shit? :-)

Do you support his position or not?

I have no idea what his position is. We are talking porn aren't we?

If you have no opinion, what are you doing here?

None of your business, If the moderators deem my presence so abhorrent I am sure they will do something about it.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 08:55 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 07:29 AM
The policeman hasn't got any superiors. He's retired. And your attitude to people with disabilities is disgusting. I'd like to hear any of your comrades here defend that despicable, gratuitous "one-eyed Brown" comment. Christ knows why you feel you have to do that sort of thing.

It's not so much about the porn, Stu, though you are trivialising it a bit too much in my view. It's more about the integrity and honesty of the man who is May's second-in-command. Read d'Ancona's Guardian article. It may well be that the policeman decided to blow the whistle after he'd he heard about sex-pest allegations (by a Tory woman!) against Green. He went public a few days after that came out. It. Is fully in the public interest that this bloke is investigated, and the establishment furore is just so bloody fake and so predictable. I see we have Cressida Dick throwing the protecting veil around Green now. Well she knows all about the establishment rushing to one's aid, doesn't she?

First things first, I agree with you about the "One-eyed Brown" slur. That was totally unnecessary and I would have said so earlier if it wasn't that I was reading this thread for the first time.

As for 'it's fully in the public interest that this bloke is investigated', I would have to say that if it must be done it should be done under the rule of law.
The original raid on Green's parliamentary offices was questionable.
The release of information by an ex-cop who had no reason to have retained information which should only have been retained in secure police files (if there was reason to retain it at all) does nothing to help justice.
We have laws about Data Protection for a reason, and much of the time it is to protect us all. Civil Servants (including the police) should receive frequent reminders of their responsibilities when dealing with personal information.
Generally, it should not be copied without good reason. It should be retained in a secure way, it should not be taken from the relevant office without good reason. Data protection UK Gov

The Data Protection Act allows you to ask any organisation what information they hold about you. If the police had deleted their files on the matter they would not have known that there was any information held, if Green had requested details.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 09:02 AM

Steve,
What "incriminating" documents have I ever mentioned? Rot My Flay-o!

You claimed that Green was found in possession of leaked government documents.
He was not.
You made that up.

You said, " When the material first came to light (during an investigation that showed Green to be dishonest, by the way),"

No material came to light in the investigation of Green's home and offices.
You made that up.

The investigation did not show Green to be dishonest.
You made that up.

Staggering lies just to make your lying case against Green.
You are a disgrace Steve.

Found nothing? Thousands of(perfectly legal) porn files equals nothing? Rot My Bleedin' Flay-o!

That was not claimed until ten years later, and there is no reason to believe he knew anything about it even if it is true.

Read what Stu has just said.
Also read what Deputy Speaker Eleanor Laing has said. Her office assistant "several years ago, before we had effective screening of our parliamentary computers, she used to find pornographic images on her computer every morning when she switched it on." "Thus it would appear that material found in the parliamentary computer system can be proved to have been put ther by some other means than by the deliberate actions of the person operating the computer"

So Yes Steve. The accusations equal nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 09:15 AM

"Cressida Dick"...???

Blimey, tories even have porn star names...!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 09:25 AM

I assume Rot my Flay o is not a good thing?

You guys always take issues so personally I have to assume it is cultural. Or is it all one person's fault ';^/

Is it due to classism, reputation wars or a tradition of rudeness?
Some porn I find outright artistic. Met Art.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 09:32 AM

some porn is the deeply subversive and hilarious expression of counter culture artists and intellectuals...

or at least it was back in the pre-video and silicone tits era..

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 10:15 AM

On the whole I agree with you, Nigel. But this is the real world, one of murky tactics, wholesale leaks (in which all parties are complicit and in which Damian Green was definitely involved, if only as the grateful recipient thereof), underhand tactics, data hacking, genie-out-of-the-bottle social media...it could be that many of our hallowed leaders are feeling upper inner thighs, promising favours in return for favours, using porn... its all bad. But maybe this cop, who should not have been in possession of illicitly-copied stuff anyway, is best characterised as a whistleblower. Maybe he sees Green as an insufferable hypocrite who needed to be exposed in the public interest. Maybe he's the least bad character in this soap opera in which there are no good guys. Maybe there's more to come out. The way the establishment have immediately gone for the jugulars of these two ex-cops is highly suspicious. Anyway, on a lighter note to finish, I bet Damian is hoping against hope that Theresa doesn't make a statement saying that he has her full support...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 12:00 PM

But maybe this cop, who should not have been in possession of illicitly-copied stuff anyway, is best characterised as a whistleblower. Maybe he sees Green as an insufferable hypocrite who needed to be exposed in the public interest.
Whistle-blowers normally speak out about problems within their own business. If he were to be considered a whistle-blower isn't it strange to hold on to the evidence for ten years. What other misuses could there be in that timescale that he has allowed to happen (if his evidence can be trusted)?
Also, if he's only just identified him as a hypocrite, why steal that evidence ten years ago?
Whatever else happens I can't see this ex-cop coming out of this smelling of roses.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 12:27 PM

He won't, Nigel. But the complaint from Kate Maltby about Green's alleged sexual improprieties came out just four days before the policeman came forward. I haven't a clue what his motive was but, just maybe, he thought that enough was enough. We are encouraged to speak out these days on sexual abuse. Maybe he was wrong-headed all along the line. I can't think of a single good reason why he had that material copied. But the genie's out of the bottle. Maybe there's more to this than we currently know. Green definitely has awkward questions to answer and, being in the position he's holding, he should answer them.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Stu
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 12:45 PM

" It's more about the integrity and honesty of the man who is May's second-in-command."

This isn't the way to test those values in the man as you could never prove he looked at it. It's a total waste of time and a distraction. The offence here is someone used a works computer to look at porn; beyond that there's nothing to see.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 12:51 PM

"I can't think of a single good reason why he had that material copied."

He as a policeman of high rank should know better than anyone else about the data protection act, and more importantly why the act was passed.

He should be made a severe example of for publicly breaking this law.
Furthermore by doing he is playing politics. As a highranking officer involved in security he has no excuse for his behaviour.
Retired or not his previous status smacks of the executive interfering with the legislative.
   The judiciary should bear this in mind when he is finally charged and judged.
The separation of power is implicit in a healthy democracy.
A court case is required both to reinforce this separation and send a strong message to others.
    This man overstepped his authority when searching an mp's parliamentary office without the required authorizations and compounded this by waltzing into downing street clutching a folder where the title page was captured by the press. Gross incompetence for a member of the security forces.
    Additionally he is guilty of holding data illegally for what can only be construed as political mischief making.

    He clearly demonstrates he was unfit for the role he was appointed to.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 03:03 PM

"He clearly demonstrates he was unfit for the role he was appointed to."
Unlike the bunch of PORNO KINGS who hold parliamentary office, you mean?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 03:10 PM

There's a case in America where the whistle blower was such an unreliable shit of a person,
and committed so much crime he ended up with a long spell in prison.
But, he effectively opened up a case of such magnitude,
the Law was able to catch far more bigger crooks infesting Corporate America...

I've seen the movie, Mat Damon played the not quite as baddy...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 17 - 09:42 AM

100!

:D