BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 04:04 PM

I grew up in the 50s and 60s in Eastern England. My brothers and I grew up in a decent suburb, in a rented house, but most of my mates lived on a Council estate a few miles away. We all went to a Secondary Modern school, where it was made very plain to us that we were just 'factory fodder' and shouldn't get ideas above our station. Nevertheless, we all seem to have done OK and many of us went on to get degrees and decent jobs.
In the interim there appear to have been a multitude of radical and catastrophic changes in British society. Where do you start? The replacement of responsibilities and obligations by 'rights', a million and one inept and poorly thought through social engineering 'experiments' covering everything from teaching to town planning, Thatcherism and all the myriad evils stemming from it (there's still time to indict that wretched woman and put her on trial - why isn't someone doing it?!), the ultimate triumph of capitalism, drugs, egotistical and elitist 'professionals' who know nothing about, and appear to have no interest in, their chosen 'professions', the incompetence and impotence of the Police, and returning to those contemptible 'professionals' (may the useless, smug bastards burn in Hell!)the wholesale replacement of thought and competence by political correctness - it's much more important that they appear to occupy the moral high ground than actually do anything useful.
And, at the end of the day, everyone is responsible for their actions (there are probably some exceptions - OK, most people are responsible for their actions!) and should be made to take those reponsibilities seriously or suffer Society's wrath - no excuses!!

DB

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 04:13 PM

Poverty will forever be villified by the rich and poor alike.
Yet many beautiful people rise to articulate their humble beginings and the abuse they encountered on the way up.
I should include myself among them.

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: GUEST,I live on an estate
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 06:17 PM

Sill sage you dissaprove of social darwinism spreading 'rumours' about imbreeding, but you are wrong i av overheard quite a few incidences of imbreeding on the estate where i live.

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: HuwG
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 08:13 PM

Near me is an estate which is the classical tipping ground for those with no chance to become house-owning, Volvo-owning, blessed-with-2.4-children professional clones.

To be fair, there is the expected percentage of drug addicts, drunks, criminals of one sort or another (usually violent drunks or thieving addicts) and so on. However, there are as many marooned on the estate through personal tragedy.

At one time, I was nearly romantically involved with a girl on the estate. Her five children were a drawback. The children had four fathers. Before anyone condemns the girl as shiftless and amoral, I must point out that she has as many brain cells as I have, but far more problems in her upbringing. She was fostered through several cold institutions and then foster parents who mustered the correct number of points on the check sheet to become "carers", but appear to have lavished no more true affection on their foster daughter than they would on self-assembly furniture. As a result, the unfortunate girl fell prey to four plausible, predatory and worthless husbands or boyfriends.

The children by the way, are all of average intelligence or better. Apart from a tendency to swear constantly and meaninglessly, they seem to have few personal conflicts.

I know of several women in something like the same state of affairs. A very large proportion were raised in institutions such as Convent-sponsored orphanages, or council-run foster homes. Perhaps these institutions cannot be blamed for the tragedy or failings which cost these girls their natural families, but none of them seem to have replaced parental affection with anything worthwhile.

No doubt there are plenty of boys with the same upbringing, and whose lack of self-worth manifests itself in various anti-social ways.

While there are many people on estates I would not care to associate with (or with whom I would have no shared interests whatever), there are plenty of smug and selfish middle-class parasites whom I despise more, and have less in common.

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 09:40 AM

she sounds wonderful. real classy girl

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 10:43 AM

What do you consider "inbreeding?" Simply coming from the same place and chosing partners there isn't it. Are you suggesting that with the density of people there that there aren't enough un-related partners to go around and that incest is rampant? I don't think so.

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 11:24 AM

Guest, I live on an estate - What does social darwinism have to say about the royal family then?

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 11:31 AM

Interbreeding is as old as mankind.... it's only since the 'rules' were written out in the Bible that people made an effort not to sleep with their sister's husband's aunty's son. Mind you, that doesn't stop some people....

It's been legal to marry your cousin for over a century; it was made legal to marry your husband's brother after World War I decimated the male population and 'breeding males' were low in numbers. It was made legal to marry your wifes' sister before WWI but I can't find the reference.

Consider the estate to be a village - put that village on the top of a moor, in a deep rural valley... you've got to breed "o'er the midden" if you want to have any chance of procreation at all.

(Better marry o'er the midden than o'er the moor = marry someone close, over the muck heap/farmyard rather than someone from far away.)

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: PeteBoom
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:10 PM

Right then - it has been asked again and again, so here it is yet another time - GUEST,I live on an estate - WHICH estate? Where? Can one make claims about "your estate may not be as bad as mine" without identifying where that is? Even a general area...

Now that you've got all the liberal folks worked up to talk about things many won't have experienced first hand - without *some* hard information, I'd agree with an earlier assertion, with a twist...

BNP? Neo-Thatcherite Conservative (Maggie wasn't quite conservative enough!)?

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: GUEST,I live on an Estate
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:34 PM

So what is the answer to the estate problem? it is ok saying drag them all down as they are a product of a social experiment gone wrong, but you can't surely put these people anywhere!

You put these people into decent schools, they will likely cause upset for others, you put these families into decent areas, they will cause decrease in house prices and cause increase in crime and other social hazards.

I know these are uncomfortable truths, and i am not saying it is all their fault for them been they way they are, so what is the answer? You increase funding for their schools? They burn them down anyway! You give them better nutritious food at schools? They simply go to the local takeaway and get chips! You give the parents food vouchers for better foods, then there is no incentive for those parents to go out and work for their food, whilst the rest of us work hard to eat and live. It seems no matter what you give them 'people', they destroy!

So...what is the answer?

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:58 PM

"You put these people into decent schools, they will likely cause upset for others, you put these families into decent areas, they will cause decrease in house prices and cause increase in crime and other social hazards."

These are the same arguments put forth when Seattle was forced to integrate the Black population. None of it proved to be true.

Vancouver has social housing that requires tennants to have a mixed income. Most development is required to have a certain percentage of low income suites available.

Your fears are unfounded. Poverty is not contagious and by providing alternatives, many have had the opportunity to raise their children in a world of opportunities and positive role models. In a ghetto situation, crime breeds crime and poverty breeds poverty and the cycle continues.

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: sapper82
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 04:40 PM

GUEST,I live on an Estate
"You put these people into decent schools, they will likely cause upset for others,"

That is where the abandonment of ANY serious attempt to keep discipline in schools has caused the most problems.
For these children Education should be a route out of the sink estates, but teachers are no longer allowed to actually teach in so many of the sink schools.

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: Chris Green
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 04:45 PM

GUEST, do you by any chance live on the Nephelokokkugia estate?





Go on. Look it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: wildlone
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 04:50 PM

I used to live on an "estate".It was a small [250 properties] estate in a small country town in Dorset. I lived in a two bedroom flat with my mother.The flats were built by the council for older people not as housing for familys.The council sold the properties to a housing association. As the residents of the flats died or moved out familys were moved in. A family from Bristol were moved in above us.
They used to have people from Bristol staying [as many as 8] playing music at all hours. A drug dealer was moved in next door. A girl was moved in opposite with a young son within two years she had another two children by different men.
In every case they were evicted from their previous home for being a problem.
I was once talking to a policeman in the town and mentioned that there was drug dealing taking place in a local car park and was told "there is no drug problems in Sherborne".
We moved to a small village in Wales.

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 10:35 PM

I lived in subsidized housing with my two children and obtained my degree with a government loan. I had no other 'way out'. I have reaped some of the benefits (I now own a home) and have job security. The benefits to my children are obvious. My son is a successful contractor and my daughter will soon be an architect.

Unless you give people hope, there is no way to break the cycle.

Some will benefit, some will not. Is that a reason to withold hope from those that wish for a better life?

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: GUEST,I live on an Esate
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 03:31 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Estate Scum - Tolerate?
From: Shakey
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 05:32 AM

dianavan 20 Jul 05 - 12:58 PM

As much as I'm wary of social engineering I have to agree with you here.