BS: Popular views on McCain

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 11:37 PM

Sorry, but "religious" and "dishonest" are synonymous terms to me. The bright side for Obama supporters is there are very few people who will admit to realizing this.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 12:46 AM

I think we have been around this mulberry bush before, amigo. I certainly respect that conclusion, especially with regard to organized religions of any stamp. But I do not accept it absolutely, knowing there is far too much we do not know about that sort of thing, behind all the ridiculous answers that get passed about.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 08:02 AM

If he's pretending to be addicted to the ancient superstition of Christianity, he's dishonest in the worst sense.

               If he's really an addict, you have to wonder what the MoveOn.Org folks will think.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 08:24 AM

I doubt they'll think much--we have a massive cultural agreement not to look at that side of things.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 10:18 AM

I doubt it as well--they seem to have been trained not to think!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 04:38 PM

Bob Barr, the Libertarian Party presidential nominee, offered a scathing critique of Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) today and predicted he would garner substantial conservative Republican support in a handful of battleground states critical to McCain in his campaign against Democratic Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.).

Barr, a one-time conservative Republican House member from Georgia who broke with the Bush administration and many of his former congressional colleagues, blasted McCain for his support of the war in Iraq, his energy policies and his stand on reducing government spending.

"With regard to domestic policy, Sen. McCain really has put forward nothing that would indicate he believes in dramatically shrinking the size and cost of the government," Barr said during an interview on washingtonpost.com's "PostTalk" program. "He does talk a great game about doing away with earmarks, but that really does not get near to the heart of the matter of the massive federal spending, the massive federal debt and the deficits we're running."

(wapo)

Also of note: McCain and others toward the right are now blasting Obama for walking away from 8 million dollars in public funding for his campaign. Obama's had earlier promised to support mutual adherence to public funding with its concomitant spending limits.

Obama's argument is that he is facing a broken system that his opponents have expertly gamed. The decision leaves him with a much larger warchest, without the spending limits, than McCain will have if McCain adheres to the public funding option.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 06:01 PM

Obama (is) walking away from... public funding for his campaign. Obama's had earlier promised to support mutual adherence to public funding with its concomitant spending limits.

                Yes, this is definately somebody you can not depend on!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 06:32 PM

Two things:

1)    Isn't it $80 million, not $8 million which is the public funding option?

2)    I think I've read that Ron Paul is considering running with Barr. Anybody else confirm or deny that?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 06:59 PM

Yeah--how dare he turn down eighty million of the taxpayers' money. It's insulting, is what it is!!

But I tell ya what you can depend on him to do. That is, learn new information, and adapt to the conditions indicated by new information.

So suppose you had thi deal, Rig: 80M from Uncle Sam, with strings attached; or ten times that from over nine million admiring American citizens, no strings. Suppose further you had to launch a national campaign to reach as many Americans as you possibly could.

How would you choose?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 08:03 PM

There are a lot more strings attached to the money coming from the MoveOn Wilderbeests that there every would from the public financing. In fact, public financing is what we should be moving towards.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 08:08 PM

Pray tell, what strings--the vast bulk of the money in Obama's warchest is from individual private donors in small amounts. What strings do you think you are referring to?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 08:27 PM

One thing is for sure and that is public financing leaves alot to be desired... John McCain not only accepted it but used his potential funding as collaterial to eseure a laon to keep his campaign afloat... I don't like that... I mean, these are my tax dollars that are being used as collaterial... Something about this just rubs me wrong...

But worse than that is that after McCain got healthy finacially he changed his mind and then, ahhhhh, seems changed his mind again because the bucks just aren't rollin' his way???

I mean, if we are gonna fund elections with public funds then lets do it... No loopholes... No games... No high paid accountants... Lets just do it... But that's not the way it is set up and until that is fixed then folks are gonna do what they gotta do...

BTW, it's sour grapes on McCain's part to complain about Obama opting out... When things looked good for John he was all for opting out... Now that the bucks ain't coming in the story changes...

"Story changes", Bobert???

Welcome to the "Straight Talk Express" where the story seems to change daily...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 09:56 PM

Pray tell, what strings--the vast bulk of the money in Obama's warchest is from individual private donors in small amounts. What strings do you think you are referring to?

                   But they're all part of the evil MoveOn/ Wilberbeest network. This all started with the Reagan Administration, with would explain why Obama is so hopelessly addicted to superstition, and so full of praise for Reagan.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 10:55 PM

MoveOn did not, actually, start under Reagan.

And furthermore, he is not "full of praise" for Reagan; he praises certain of Reagan's virtues and policies.

From the MoveOn site, where any responsible enquirer could have found it as easily as I did:

"MoveOn.org Civic Action was started by Joan Blades and Wes Boyd, two Silicon Valley entrepreneurs. Although neither had experience in politics, they shared deep frustration with the partisan warfare in Washington D.C. and the ridiculous waste of our nation's focus at the time of the impeachment mess. On September 18th 1998, they launched an online petition to "Censure President Clinton and Move On to Pressing Issues Facing the Nation." Within days they had hundreds of thousands of individuals signed up, and began looking for ways these voices could be heard."..."The MoveOn Peace campaign was founded independently by Eli Pariser, a Maine native and recent graduate of Simon's Rock College of Bard. In the days following September 11th, 2001, he launched an online petition calling for a restrained and multi-lateral response to the attacks, which was quickly signed by more than half a million people. Eli joined forces with MoveOn soon afterward, and is now MoveOn.org Political ActionÕs Executive Director."

I would like a definition or reference to "Wilberbeest" as it makes no sense to me.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 08:30 AM

Sorry, I meant Wildebeest.

               I didn't mean to imply that I thought MoveOn was started under Reagan. I meant that the Reagan policies empowered it. One result of Reagan's breaking as many of the private sector unions as possible, was that the public employees grew in power and strength. Reagan couldn't break the public unions, i.e. teachers and etc. And maybe he didn't want to because they had a strong herd instinct and whoever was running Reagan could use that. Public employees gained, everyone else lost, and that didn't seem to bother the public employees at all.

               Unlike Barak Obama, I can't think of anything good to say about Ronald Reagan.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 09:39 AM

Wait....you're really messing with my head, aren't you???

Two guys start a civic action, publically communicated, free-assembly type organization to promote forward-looking political action.

And you say Reagan empowered it?

It strikes me that maybe the Bill of Rights did the empowering, no?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 10:35 AM

This is really hard to describe. I suppose I'm guilty of projecting the Obama supporters I know onto the landscape of Obama supporters in general. But the ones I've seen and heard in the media fit it pretty well.

             I understand that the founders of MoveOn seem to be motivated out of a sense of public duty. But I see them as a kind of Rush Limbaugh of the day. When the "Fairness Doctrine" was allowed to expire, Rush Limbaugh was able to project his thoughts on the air waves without any concern about truth or rebuke. I really believe he thought he was doing this out of a sense of public good too.

             If it hadn't been for the Ned Lamont affair, this might have passed under my personal radar screen unnoticed. But advances in technology have allowed the MoveOn folks to thrive and grow. Now it's their thoughts and values that are being projected onto the American political scene. Many of their values are not my values. They are just too narrowly focused, I think, to encompass the hopes and dreams of the lager American citizenry.

             I don't think the Bill of Rights comes into play here. Apparently the freedom to form collective bargaining groups and hold corporations accountable wasn't protected to any great extent by the "Bill". The rights of public employees to do the same thing was strong enough, however, that the Reagan handlers were either not able to break it, or they figured out ways to use it to their advantage.

             If Barak Obama ends up being the next Michael Dukakis, a number of us are going to assume the latter. That is, the NeoCons used the nonthinking hordes in the Democratic Party to put their man, McCain, back in the Whitehouse.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 10:55 AM

Nonthinking hordes are with us on both sides of the divide, good Rig.

People have been organizing into larger forms since the first tribe.

So I am not sure what you're standing up against here. Ned Lamont? Maybe I missed the scandal sheet that week. Its important to recognize that (a)MoveOn is a self organized group supporting liberal issues and (b)Rush Limbaugh is a psychodrama queen.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 11:31 AM

Like I said, it's hard to explain. Coal miners in West Virginia get it, and steel workers in Pennsylvania and Ohio get it. People in positions of political punditry do not get it, and people without vision in the center of mindless herds do not get it.

                If Rush Limbaugh is a psychodrama queen, moveon.org has to be today's version of Joseph Goebbles.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 01:05 PM

I am still not clear on what the "it" you refer to is. MoveOn has built up a poular voioce through ordinary dissemination, using the web. Nothing covert about it. They gathered momentum by building agreement. There are a hundred rabid Rush-like right wing blog and PAC sites doing exactly the same thing with their feverish version of truth, spiced with anger and disgust and overly-broad generalizations, reciting the mantras of Limbaugh and COulter into the national consciousness without any true sense of responsibility.

I think my point here, as you also indicate, is that each of these groups represents what it believes to be good purposes in forwArding the national interest or the community interest.

On both sides of the spectrum these ideas are often colored by individual exposure to extreme incidents or compelling world-views that are slanted one way or another for a variety of reasons. Painting liberals as communists, or right wing political voices as fascists, is in both cases an effort to avoid thinking about the many details and vectors actually in play int he world, by adopting a bunch of inacurrate catgeroical responses. The reason I so dislike Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh and their ilk is that they use their pulpits to promulgate this exact kind of irrationality, flavored by fear or anger.

I am not asserting that MoveOn does not resort to some of the same techniques, but I think they do so less extremely. The history of propoganda, as it used to be called before it became dignified weith the name "PR", is long and colorful and covers both sides of every disagreement.

A

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 01:32 PM

"I am still not clear on what the "it" you refer to is..."


                   Yes, I'm quite sure of that. I think that's where the discussion breaks down.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 04:19 PM

I'll try to describe it this way:

       In a literature class, a Hillary supporter would read Faulkner's book "Absolom Absolom," and digest for himself/herself what the writer had to say about racism in America.

       An Obama supporter would read the Cliff Notes, and then read the professor's own book on the subject of Faulkner's "Absolom Absolom."

       The Obama supporters would score higher on the test. The Hillary supporters would come away knowing more about racism in America.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 04:44 PM

Actually there is a very good chance that some of McCain leaning 527's will get McCain in trouble rather than out...

The Clintons did not fare well when they used subtle race tricks and they were subtle... Now fast forward to this October an' the last thing in the world that John McCain is going to need is to be percieved as allowing others to use race on his behalf...

Gonna be a lot trickier than the Swiftboaters of the Willie Hortons because one of the things that people say they are sick of is politics as usual and I'm sure the Obama folks have allready anticipated the various attacks, disected them and are ready to turn these attacks back on the attackers, just as they did to the Clintons...

There won't be a repeat of Dukakis and you can take that to the bank...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 05:51 PM

Jaysus, Rig. I would have reversed those two descritpions 180 degrees around.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 06:35 PM

I think you would have been wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 11:08 PM

A much closer analogy:

A Hillary supporter would flunk the test, then complain he didn't understand that it was better to answer all the questions than just to put all effort into the questions he thought were more important. An Obama supporter would realize all the questions are worth dealing with.

And the Obama supporter would have studied the entire book--not just what he guessed the professor would test on. And therefore know far more about it than the pro- Hillary student did. And would not complain even if he didn't do as well as he had hoped on the exam.

It's time, however, for Hillary supporters to stop tramping in the sour grapes. The wine that comes out will not be one you want to drink.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 11:44 PM

Ron - I really tried to come up with a scenario that would work to distinguish the difference between the Democratic elites, and the average working class Democratic voter. I can see my efforts were wasted.
                   The only question that remains to be answered, I suspect, is how many disenfranchised working class voters will simply vote for McCain, and how many will roll up their sleeves, and go the extra mile to actively work against the potential presidency of Barak Obama.
                   I suspect the numbers in both camps will surprise you.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 11:17 AM

"Working class voters" who vote for McCain are proving beyond doubt that they have no idea of their own self-interest.   Sometimes I wonder if that description fits the poster himself who predicts this absurd result.

McCain's only solution to economic problems and health problems boils down to "let the market take care of the problem." Obama sees a much bigger role for government to help the middle and working class.   Case in point--Obama's tax changes would benefit the middle class and working class lopsidedly--not, as under the Bush tax cuts--which McCain would continue in their entirety--the upper class.

McCain would also continue the Iraq war--which relies on cannon fodder from the "working class". Obama would bring the combat troops home from Iraq--and I've read that this idea is resulting in substantial support for him among the troops themselves, who realize the open-ended nature of McCain's planned commitment in Iraq. Even though it is now totally pointless--if it ever had a point--since there is now no chance that al-Qaeda can take over in Iraq, which is the threat GWB and now McCain have held over the heads of the US public.

He is also completely on the wrong side for anybody who believes in abortion rights--and he will appoint Supreme Court justices who share his view.


All this is obvious to anybody who thinks. Working class people are as capable of thinking as anybody else.   It's the poster who predicts mass working-class vote for McCain who is the real elitist--he thinks he knows working class people are not smart enough to see their own self-interest.

And as usual his views are not graced by any logic or evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 12:54 PM

Ron - "Self interest" is a term that might be a little harder to define than you make it out to be.


                And as for this: "He (McCain) is also completely on the wrong side for anybody who believes in abortion rights--"


                Not necessarily. If you would look at a wider range of social commentary, you would know that the religious right is now making the case that if we had just kept strict anti-abortion laws the country wouldn't be running over with illegal immigrants now.

                So a working class voter might very logically conclude that the best way to combate illegal immigration is to overture "Roe vs. Wade."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 01:16 PM

I don't think that birth of illegal people is a really significant source of illegal immigration.

It strikes me as a bizarre assertion.

Any sources of fact to it?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 01:51 PM

I dont' think they are talking about the birth of illegal people. My take on their arguement is: if the US had not allowed 12 million abortions (you pick the number) over the course of the last thirty years, we would have that many more people amongst our ranks, and there wouldn't be any reason for the illegal immigrants to have come here in the first place.

             As for sources, I've heard a long string of right-wing-religious-wakkos making this claim, though I'd have to search to find one. I'll give it a quick look.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 01:55 PM

This is a quote from Tom Delay:

Tom DeLay tells College Republicans that abortion, illegal immigration are linked Michael Roston
Published: Wednesday July 18, 2007   


Former Republican Majority Leader Tom DeLay told a gathering of College Republicans that a link exists between legal abortion and illegal immigration in America. The remarks were included in a video produced by writer Max Blumenthal and posted at The Huffington Post.

"I contend [abortion] affects you in immigration," DeLay told the Washington-area gathering. "If we had those 40 million children that were killed over the last 30 years, we wouldn't need the illegal immigrants to fill the jobs that they are doing today. Think about it."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 03:43 PM

Oh, I see the thread, Rig. Completely off the wall, but at least it makes a certain cross-eyed sense.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Jun 08 - 09:20 PM

Yes, and that's the logic which will cause a number of voters who have been concerned about Roe Vs. Wade in the past, to become less critical of future Supreme Court nominations from a Republican president.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 12:50 AM

Unlikely to be any of those between now and 2016.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 01:20 AM

McCain talking points I don't understand.

"we need to fight racism with racism."

I hear it on right wing talk radio but I really don't get it.
Is this about Obama or the border?


"McCain will win the war on terror"

I know he is a loyal neo conquistador but the war on terror is just a fictional metaphor for endless war.
John wants to be the Cortez of America and win the black gold from the conquered people of Iraq but no one can win a war against a military tactic called terrorism.


"McCain will preserve our treasured institutions."

I guess this is about the military first and foremost but there are a lot of similar institutions that no longer serve humanity or the Earth.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 07:45 AM

I can say what I interpret two of them to be:

         "we need to fight racism with racism."
       This probably has to do with "racism" as we've seen demonstrated by Michelle Obama and Reverend Wright. I would take it to mean working against "reverse discrimination" and for an end to affirmative action.

       "McCain will preserve our treasured institutions."
       I would think this has to do with keeping control of public schools in local communities, and more importantly, preventing the wide spread acceptance of "gay marriage."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 09:49 AM

Ummmmm, racism "demonstrated by Michelle Obama", Rigs??? Would you like to expound on this accusation, por favor???

And as for "treasured institutions" one would think that marriage "vows" might, ahhhhh, be in that list but word on the street is that McCain and Cindy were, ahhhhhh, doin' the bump while John was still married to another woman??? Hey, I don't have piccures but that's the word on the street...

Now back to Rig's accusation about Michelle Obama's racism 'cause that oughtta be alot more interesting a story than John McCain's love life...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 10:39 AM

Bobert - Keep in mind I'm just trying to address Donuel's question about McCain's talking points, and this isn't anything I'm an advocate for:

                But if you're not on somebody's e-mailing list who wants you to know about all of the things that were published in Michelle Obama's masters thesis at Princeton, then you might be out of the loop as to what those folks are having to say about her racist attitudes.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 11:04 AM

Well, Rigs, I'm not on any Swiftboat email list but I'm sure that if Michelle Obama was a racist that it woyuld have come up by now somewhere other than rightie/partisan websites... Shoot, just from what I read here in Mudville it is apparent that the Swifties are busy little foot soldiers:

*Obama the Muslim

*Obama the head a secret communist organization

*Obama' mentor in college was a socialist

etc., etc....

Swiftboaters... Start your engines!!!

B

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 11:30 AM

Rig:

It's kind of highly irresponsible to disseminate slurs for which you have no facts. Do you entrust all your thinking to the vagaries of spire and rumor? That was not my impression.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 11:38 AM

I am only answering (or attempting to answer) the question posed by Donuel. If one googles "Michelle Obama Thesis," one will probably find the same information that is being transmitted around the internet by e-mail. I got it from 3 or 4 different people, mostly folks I work with.
                  I think it's probably accurate if it came from the records at Princeton. It doesn't allow for a student in her early 20's publishing something that she might not fully agree with a few years later. But still, it's there.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 11:44 AM

Rig:

Have you read her thesis?

HEre's what CBS said:
"What's in the thesis?

Obama, who concentrated in sociology and received a certificate in African-American studies, examined how the attitudes of black alumni have changed over the course of their time at the University. "Will they become more or less motivated to benefit the Black community?" Obama wrote in her thesis.

After surveying 89 black graduates, Obama concluded that attending the University as an undergraduate decreased the extent to which black alumni identified with the black community as a whole.

Obama drew on her personal experiences as an example.

"As I enter my final year at Princeton, I find myself striving for many of the same goals as my White classmates -- acceptance to a prestigious graduate school or a high-paying position in a successful corporation," she wrote, citing the University's conservative values as a likely cause.

"Predominately White universities like Princeton are socially and academically designed to cater to the needs of the White students comprising the bulk of their enrollments," she said, noting the small size of the African-American studies department and that there were only five black tenured professors at the University across all departments.

Obama studied the attitudes of black Princeton alumni to determine what effect their time at Princeton had on their identification with the black community. "My experiences at Princeton have made me far more aware of my 'Blackness' than ever before," she wrote in her introduction. "I have found that at Princeton no matter how liberal and open-minded some of my White professors and classmates try to be toward me, I sometimes feel like a visitor on campus; as if I really don't belong."

Emeritus sociology professor Walter Wallace, who served as her thesis adviser, declined to comment for this story.

"It is important to consider the time period in which Michelle Obama wrote her thesis," College Democrats vice president Scott Weingart '09 said in an e-mail. "In 1985, Princeton was still a very conservative school; [Tiger Inn] would not admit women members for another six years. Today, the student body is a lot more progressive and diverse."

---

While this sounds like a young woman considering the impact of racist attitudes embedded in white institutions of the 80's, it is not the voice of someone being a racist.

To imply that it is is deeply irresponsible, a means of promoting he problem by forwarding false information about it.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 12:26 PM

It's okay with me. I'm not trying to promote it one way or the other. I was only making an attempt to address the question. The e-mails that were sent to me, however, make her out to sound like a Black Panther.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 12:57 PM

http://www.flickr.com/photo_edit.gne?id=2604805918

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 01:44 PM

Tell ya' all what... I've got copies of some old articles that I wrote for the Commonwealth Times, which was VCU's student paper, that make Michelle Obama sound like Mother Terresa and The Virgin Mary rolled into one...

And given the tone, Rigs, of your post 23 June 08, 7:45am, compared to your most recent post I would guess that you have had some level of mind-change in regards to Michelle Obama... Correct me if I am wrong...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 01:59 PM

I think the difference is, I was responding to the question by alluding to comments on the internet. I don't think it makes sense to go back to something that was written by a graduate student, and then try to apply those same comments to the person 20 years later.

                   If somebody wrote an article when they were 50, it would probably be justifiable to hold them to it when they were 70, if that makes any sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 01:59 PM

The slurs AND TALKING POINTS are right wing and honestly are begining to go over my head.

Good ol Ringinslinger was merely trying to help me understand what the current hate campaign is about.

I guess it means nothing except that it is a visceral hatred to be learned by the Mc Cain followers.


Even the speeches by W in Isreal that mention Hitler repeatedly in conjunction with Obama's statesmanship plans are so over the top that it is "all sound and fury signifying nothing".

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 02:01 PM

I would like to request that you scrutinize such emails, when you get them, with a sense of critical thought and a desire for truth which impels you to rebut falsehoods when you encounter them.

To forward them directly, or represent them to others, without such scrutiny is simply to support the broadcast of falsehood, which undermines the democratic process by distorting its information.

Not a patriotic act.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 02:50 PM

If somebody asks, "What are they saying?"

             Any you respond, "This is what they are saying."

             I'm not sure how you formulate patriotism into the equation.