BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 May 09 - 02:52 PM

Another example of the surprising way that many people don't seem to have any understanding of how the electoral system used in the Euro-elections works. Not that it's complicated, but it's different from the one used in Parliamentary or local elections.

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 May 09 - 02:59 PM

""The other two, true enough, and maybe "et al" as well - but "David Owen", well, that's a strange one to include.""

Strange indeed McG, and due entirely to brain fade. That WAS supposed to be Tony Benn, of course, far too left wing for my vote, but far too honest and sincere NOT to warrant my genuine respect and admiration.

He ALWAYS meant what he said, and SAID what he meant.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: Paul Burke
Date: 25 May 09 - 03:28 PM

Well, unless you lived in Bristol or Chesterfield you wouldn't have had the chance to vote for him. He was a character who developed- from his post-War idealistic days, his renunciation of his peerage, the fliration with technocracy, to the last Republican- a wonderful and almost 17th century career.

UKIP would be better described as "appealing to racist elements who haven't got the bottle to come out", but I think they also appeal to non- racist, right wing, protesters (whingers?) as somewhere else to park the vote. They aren't hardcore like the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 25 May 09 - 03:49 PM

The only problem I have with Benn is that when he managed to change the constitution and make it possible to renounce a peerage, he made sure (or tolerated the insertion of a clause?) that future descendants of 'ex-peers' could redeem it. Young Hillary Benn is actually the third Viscount Stansgate if he cares to claim it. A bit like that bloke with the moat (whose father renounced his peerage) but is really the third Viscount Hailsham (should he want to be - and I bet he does.)

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 May 09 - 05:03 PM

he made sure (or tolerated...)

There's a bit of a difference between those two. And however Benn felt about the inclusion of that clause would have made no difference whatsoever, it just wasn't within his control.

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 25 May 09 - 05:08 PM

You have proof of that?

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 May 09 - 05:13 PM

Not only not within his control, but a tribute to his conviction, and commitment that his son has NEVER wanted, nor attempted, to reclaim the title.

I don't care how far a man's politics may be from my own, if he is honourable, and that one certainly is.



Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 25 May 09 - 05:34 PM

Wanted? How do you know that? Are you a confidante of young Hillary?Once his ministerial career is over (next June, probably) who knows what he'll decide.

Anthony Wedgwood Benn was desperate to become leader of the Labour Party and (eventually) Prime Minister and I have no problem with that. The reason he fought to change the law about hereditary peeerages was to further that ambition. As the 14th Earl of Home demonstrated, a Prime minister must have a seat in the Commons. There was no way that Labour would ever choose Viscount Stansgate so he had to become an 'ordinary bloke' like the rest of us. 'Tony Benn' sounds much more 'ordinary' than Anthony Wedgwood Benn.

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 May 09 - 05:41 PM

""Don, I don't know who the devil you know is, though I reckon I could make a good guess, and I reckon I would vote elsewhere.""


Strangely enough, I have a decision to make that is really difficult.

I have made no secret of nor apology for, the fact that I am and always will be a committed Tory.

However my MP is New Labour, with a solid majority. He has not been named, thus far, as a transgressor.

My problem then is that I cannot by voting Tory, expect to have a Tory representative.

In the current climate, with public anger likely to move votes from New Labour to BNP in greater numbers than Tory to BNP, however distasteful it is to me, I may have to vote for the New Labour incumbent.

Although he may be relatively honest, I hate to give my vote to the party which gave us £17000 worth of debt for every man, woman, and child in the country, and unemployment for 3 million, just to make it even harder.

But I would vote for the DEVIL himself to prevent the BNP gaining any seats

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 May 09 - 05:49 PM

And since UKIP seem to have an agreement with BNP not to stand against each other, the same goes for UKIP.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 May 09 - 05:57 PM

""Wanted? How do you know that? Are you a confidante of young Hillary?Once his ministerial career is over (next June, probably) who knows what he'll decide.


So your mind reading capacity is sufficient for you to make bets on what Douglas Hogg is thinking, but nobody else should comment on Hilary Benn's thoughts or intentions.

Neither has attempted to reclaim, and neither has signalled any intention to do so in the future.

You have a go at proving YOUR assertion, and THEN you will have the right to seek proof from me.

Elsewise you could just try to remember that YOU are not the only person whose opinions are valid.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: jeddy
Date: 25 May 09 - 05:59 PM

is that right then? the bnp will not stand agaist ukip in the geal or locals but they will in the euro's? have i got it right now?

so it is better to vote with whoever is likely to keep bnp or ukip out shit i'm giong to have to go with someone that i don't want to, i would have liked to vote for the jury party or someone similar but not if it means that the bnp will do better i'd rather have thatcher back!!

and that's saying something,sorry don.

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 25 May 09 - 07:04 PM

They will reclaim the peerages when it suits them - simple human nature. You get such better service in restaurants etc when you have a title. You're correct in that you can't prove the future but just wait and see. Funnily enough, I've always admired old Wedgie's grasp of history and his understaing of the way the constitution works.

re the BNP and UKIP, as I pointed out before, they are standing against each other in the European elections.

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 May 09 - 07:10 PM

In the euro elections you vote for a party list, and the number of votes determines how many on that list get in, if any.

Some seats are going to go to the minority parties which do best. Tactical voting takes on a different shape in an election like that.

The hope, and a realistic hope, is that the BNP is going to be beaten out by other minority parties, such as the Greens - or even UKIP, which may reasonably be acused of xenophobia, but isn't racist in the BNP style, as evidenced by the fact that some of their candidates are Black or Asian. (And to be fair, UKIP does in fact put up candidates against the BNP, and may well have cost them some victories in council elections.)

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 26 May 09 - 03:21 AM

If withdrawal from the EU, UKIP's most distinctive policy, is xenophobic, what does that make Arthur Scargill's Socialist Labour Party? Its manifesto for the European elections calls for immediate withdrawal.

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: goatfell
Date: 26 May 09 - 08:29 AM

aye but is he or his party racist the same with his supporters

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: goatfell
Date: 26 May 09 - 09:48 AM

I would vote for either the SNP or The Socialist Labour Party on the 4th of June

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: jeddy
Date: 26 May 09 - 02:43 PM

is anyone else getting headaches over trying to do the right thing and make a differance? or is it just me? i've made my mind up but not entirely happy with what i have decided. like you said it's choosing the best of a bad lot.

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Par
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:54 AM

When choosing.. decide what kind of society you want to live in; decide what you think should be the economic and social priorities, i.e. what your personal manifesto is. Decide which issues are most important for you. Read the political parties' manifestos along with balanced reporting. Note your misgivings. If possible question the candidates and on the basis of the above make a reasoned choice.

In my opinion, if I were voting in local elections, my choice would be based on investment in social care services and support for the third sector rather than what expenses the incumbent MP has claimed.

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: The Barden of England
Date: 27 May 09 - 04:20 AM

I have already voted (postal vote you see) and may I say my 'X' wasn't put next to any BNP, UKIP or like minded party. I'm a commited European and would never vote for any 'Liitle England' party. When will they ever learn that we now live in the great big world and not great britain?
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 10:23 AM

It appears that The Thought Police are alive and well, and living in the Independent People's Republic Of South Yorkshire.

Subject: RE: BS: whats wrong with ukip [UK Independence Party]
From: Mo the caller
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 10:44 AM

A difficult subject.

The political party you vote for depends on which one most nearly maches your views about 'what should be done'. Some people even vote for parties they don't expect to get in, to send a message.

So you might vote for UKIP because you worried about the EU and the Euro.

But actually being a member of the party implies that you agree with them across the board.

I can't believe that mixed race children were sent to that couple without the council already satisfying themselves that they were not racist - maybe someone is being naive. But it's a no-win for the council here.

---

Come on guys, this isn't a difficult thing to figure out. The troll is back, and he's pushing buttons. It isn't BNP or EDL this time, its UKip or whatever. Don't let yourselves be led down that messy path. Don't feed the troll. --- mudelf