BS: Israel European?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: dianavan
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 05:00 PM

Maybe a better question would be, "how many Europeans have immigrated to Israel in the last thirty years.?"

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 05:13 PM

Well Dinivan besides the what the papers say, ahem, there are loads of Eurpeans in Israel - not all of them Jewish either - in Kibbutz, travelling about with their European Jewish friends/famalies etc, and the rest.

It would be very foolish to dismiss the European Jewish element in modern Israel.

Be well drink more real ale!

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 05:32 PM

Many "Europeans" got there from somewhere else. Or have the Picts successfully been able to terrorize the Celts Romans Normans Saxons and Vikings out of Occupied England?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 05:49 PM

The numbers at the Jewish Virtual Library are essentially the same as Wikopedia's. The numbers you quoted, which are the ethnicity percentages, indicate that about a quarter of Israelis (32.1% of 80.1% is 25.7%) are "European/American, which is still hardly a majority. I these numbers are suspect, since there is no allowance for any ethnic merging. Most Israelis (68% of 80.1%, or 54.5% plus 19.9% non-Jews, for a total of 74.4%) were born in Israel. Or would you consider an Israeli with one European-born grandparent "of European descent?" Or 2? Or 3? Or 4? How about the ones descended from Europeans who immigrated in the 1800s? The 1700s? That all sounds as racist to me as the idea that any Black American with any fraction of African descent cannot possibly be "white", whatever that word means.

All of which has nothing whatever to do with why Israel plays in European football leagues.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: dianavan
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 08:59 PM

Agreed, sorefingers. It would be very foolish to dismiss the European Jewry of Israel as insignificant. Its equally as foolish to bring up the picts when it is only the last 50 years or so that has seen large numbers of European/American immigrants in Israel.

Zionist apologists are grasping at straws.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: Peace
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:03 PM

Jew haters are masking their anti-Semitism behind lots of bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: Peace
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:05 PM

A better question would be why do some people hate Jews so much that they worship terrorism when it's done by Hezbollah?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:13 PM

Australia has now been shifted to the Asia region for the Soccer World Cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: Peace
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:15 PM

Will Israelis from the Sinai be allowed to participate?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: freda underhill
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:24 PM

Peace, why do people identify so strongly with an aggressive superpower? does it make the weak feel strong?

why do you continually accuse people who have challeng Israel's actions in Lebanon of being pro hezbollah? you are trying to project your own goodies/baddies cowboys/indians mentality on others. We are not looking at the conflict in those black/white terms.

and as i have said, again and again and again, i do not support any terrorist organisation, whether it is funded by imnsurgents or by the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: Peace
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:28 PM

"We are not looking at the conflict in those black/white terms."

Who is this 'we' you speak of?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: freda underhill
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:37 PM

think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: Peace
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:38 PM

"and as i have said, again and again and again, i do not support any terrorist organisation, whether it is funded by imnsurgents or by the US."

And where or when have I ever said you do?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 10:29 PM

I'd like to consider the original question of why Israel joined the European Football Association from a historical {and perhaps sociological?} perspective.

Thanks to google, I found this website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA

Here is an excerpt from that website:

"The Fédération Internationale de Football Association, known worldwide by its acronym FIFA, is the international governing body of Football (soccer) and the largest sporting organization in the world. Its headquarters are in Zürich, Switzerland, and its current president is Sepp Blatter...

Under the auspices of the President, FIFA [is split into six confederations which oversee the game in the different continents and regions of the world. National federations must claim membership to both FIFA and the confederation in which their nation is geographically resident for their teams to qualify for entry to FIFA's competitions (with a few geographic exceptions listed below):

    AFC - Asian Football Confederation in Asia and Australia
    CAF - Confédération Africaine de Football in Africa
    CONCACAF - Confederation of North, Central American and Caribbean Association Football in North America and Central America
    CONMEBOL - Confederación Sudamericana de Fútbol in South America
    OFC - Oceania Football Confederation in Oceania
    UEFA - Union of European Football Associations in Europe.

Nations straddling the traditional boundary between Europe and Asia have generally had their choice of confederation. As a result, nations including Russia and Turkey have chosen to become part of UEFA despite the bulk of their land area being in Asia. Israel, although lying entirely within Asia, joined UEFA in 1994, after decades of isolation by many of its Middle Eastern neighbours. Kazakhstan was the latest nation to make the move from AFC to UEFA, in 2002.

Guyana and Suriname have always been CONCACAF members despite being South American countries.

Australia have been given permission to join the AFC instead of the OFC from 2006 onwards. Australia have long lobbied for a change, because their national team is very much stronger than the other Oceania teams. No team from the OFC is offered automatic qualification to the World Cup; instead the winner of their section must play a play-off against a CONMEBOL side, a hurdle at which Australia have traditionally fallen. Perhaps ironically, Australia successfully qualified for the 2006 FIFA World Cup by winning just such a playoff in a penalty shootout against Uruguay, just a few months after the clearance to move was granted."

-snip-

So there ya go. The answer to the question "Why is Israel a member of the Union of European Football Association?" is that "although lying entirely within Asia, [Israel] joined UEFA in 1994, after decades of isolation by many of its Middle Eastern neighbours."

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: Peace
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 10:36 PM

Well, that's that then. Good one.

Now, the larger question: Who put the bomp in the bomp shuh bomp shuh bomp?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 10:40 PM

Being geographically challenged :o} it took me a moment to figure out that the Middle East is part of the Asia.

But fwiw, here's some information on the Asian Football Confederation:

The 46 member Asian Football Confederation (AFC) is the governing body of football in Asia, excluding Cyprus and Israel. (Nations with some European and some Asian territory, such as Turkey, Russia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Armenia and Georgia, are instead covered by UEFA.) It was founded in 1954 in Manila, Philippines. The main headquarters is located in Bukit Jalil, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. The current president is Mohammed Bin Hammam of Qatar...

ASEAN Football Federation
Main article: ASEAN Football Federation
Australia (invitee)
Brunei
Cambodia
East Timor
Indonesia
Laos
Malaysia
Maldives Republic* (invitee)
Myanmar
Philippines
Singapore
Thailand
Vietnam

[edit]
East Asian Football Federation
Main article: East Asian Football Federation
China PR
Chinese Taipei (Taiwan)
Guam
Hong Kong, China
Japan
Macau, China
Mongolia
North Korea
South Korea
[edit]West Asian Football Federation
Main article: West Asian Football Federation
Bahrain
Iran
Iraq
Jordan
Kuwait
Lebanon
Oman
Palestine
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Syria
United Arab Emirates
Yemen

[edit]
Central and South Asian Football Federation
Main article: Central Asian Football Federation
Afghanistan*
Bangladesh*
Bhutan*
India*
Kyrgyzstan
Nepal*
Pakistan*
Sri Lanka*
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan

...

Israel, who qualified in 1970, is now a member of UEFA. Australia, who joined AFC in 2006, qualified twice as a member of the OFC, in 1974 and 2006..."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Football_Confederation

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 12:05 AM

Like I said, "They have to play games in Europe because nobody in the neighborhood wants to play with them."

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 12:08 AM

As I said.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 04:06 PM

'Geographically challenged' - sounds like a modern euphemism for obesity!

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 04:46 PM

They're not a part of Europe and shouldn't play in the UEFA just because their neighbours don't like them. Their actions towards Palestine is not entirely sporting.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: Peace
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 04:50 PM

There is absolutely NO sport in war, and that is what Israel, Hamas and Hezbollah are fighting.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel European?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 06:20 PM

Whatever reasons there might be for Israel being included in some generally European competitions or organisations, such matters as where the citizens of Israel or their parents lived are completely irrelevant.

Lebanon is another small country in Asia for which quite a good case could be made for a similar arrangement.