BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 11:36 PM

An Aran is a citizen of Aranrefrain, a small country which specializes in shagging sheep. Its located just to the southeast of Dumthred and its first born are all sent to Mexico to apprentice as umbrella skinners. The climate in Mexico is far warmer than their native land, hence the term Aran sweaters. Those left behind shagging sheep in the abject poverty of the homeland are tired and, oppressed by the Dumthred armies, often leap from buildings and are Aran jumpers. Fortunately the highest building in Aranrefrain is only 6 foot high.

Hope this helps.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: Mbo
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 11:39 PM

Words of Aran

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 01:30 AM

bob jr, if you want to hear what folk music and songs sound like, get some of Art's phono records or his recent CD.

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 04:02 AM

How about calling it "light metal"?

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 08:36 AM

I agree with a lot of the people who have posted to this thread -- Crowhugger, Mbo, and others -- that the name really doesn't matter. But I'm curious: how long have we been using the term "folk music" anyway? My guess is that the term has been around for a while, but only came into common usage relatively recently, and never had a definition that was very clear.

At this point the world at large has a vague idea of what "folk music" means -- acoustic guitars; young people who vaguely resemble the young Dylan and Baez and take themselves way too seriously; older people with who resemble Woody and Pete and are forever trying to convince us of the importance of labor union songs from the early part of this century; facial hair (men and women alike); self-absorption, political correctness, and boredom. Not a terribly flattering image, if images concern you. We have a different view of it, but we're aware of the stereotype, and recognize that, like most stereotypes, it has some truth to it.

My guess is that the common perception of "folk" music (however accurate or inaccurate it is), and the common usage of the term, is based in the 1950s. That's pretty recent, and suggests that there's nothing particularly sacred about the term. Any thoughts on that?

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: Kim C
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 01:53 PM

"Folk" is a pretty broad term - it encompasses so much. I consider "traditional" music to be folk music, but also songs that tell a story. Maybe I'm the only one, but I think Tom T. Hall could be considered a folkie, even though he had a whole slew of hits on commercial radio. ("The Homecoming" is one of my favorite songs of his.) He is a master of telling a story in a song, which of course is a folk tradition that probably goes back to the very origins of singing.

"Folk" is also a term that most people understand pretty well.... if you say "folk", they know you're NOT talking about Top 40 anything. They may not understand the intricacies of what "folk" is, but they pretty much know what it AIN'T.

Besides, "folk" lends itself to some good wordplays, i.e., we're just folking around, we're all folked up, folk you, etc. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 02:17 PM

'Spaw,

Thanks for clearing that up.

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 02:53 PM

I don't think anyone's attitude was ever changed by changing the name of something.

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: Bert
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 02:55 PM

'cleese, Calling it Fred wouldn't avoid any confusion 'cos I've got a guitar named Fred.

Mbo, The way I interpret Art's remark is that Folk music is natural music and fake music is 'contrived' music. If someone sings or plays music naturally just for the sheer enjoyment of it then it's folk music. If someone is playing something for some artificial reason then that is fake music. Some of the artificial reasons for playing music are... commercial, political, sponsored, prestigious and religious. You can probably think of some more. And you don't have to like any of it just because it's music. Of course that doesn't stop people from singing 'fake music' just for the enjoyment of it; then it becomes folk music.

But as Art says 'we know it when we hear it'.

Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: GUEST,Mary
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 07:22 PM

I think part of the problem today is that (as Rick said) as up-and-coming band claims the title "folk" until they can be embraced by the pop world.

Sadly, real folk music gets watered down until people just thing it's boring, light strumming.

I like the new genre of antifolk. The name sounds confusing even though everyone I know playing it sounds more like Woody Guthrie than any of the current crop of "pop-folkies".

Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 07:34 PM

Back slang would make it klof music - inviting accusations that it only appeals to people with cloth ears; but regardless, I quite like the idea of being a klofsinger.

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: sophocleese
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 07:37 PM

GUEST,Mrbisok@aol as nobody yet has answered your question. "Jumper" is another quaint English term for "sweater". An Aran swetaer or jumper is a sweater knitted in the style of those made on the Aran isles off of Ireland. Usually a cream coloured, or other natural shade of wool is used and patterns are created through texture with cables and twisted stitches. Its a useful design as the density of the pattern added to the insulation while the crossed over stitches kept it flexible for ease of movement. They are warm sweaters, not at all comfortable to wear under hot stage lights.

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 10:25 PM

once upon a time 'folk' meant something...but it was too convenient a word and FAR too easily streched to include anything vaguely acoustic and faintly resembling the 'older' music. Then a bunch of us tried calling it 'traditional'...and the thundering herd soon co-opted THAT by calling whatever they listened to in their formative years 'traditional'...even if it was no older than Dylan or Kate Wolf.

The point is, we had a couple of good words, but those who changed the music refused to find new words for what they do, and they now outnumber 'us', so *shrug*...I am reduced to saying something like...

"some of the music I like is older, acapella or acoustic, written by non-professionals about mundane, everyday things other than sex & drugs & the singers latest maudlin thoughts about 'life'...sung to simpler tunes with generally fewer chords, with often heroic themes ...and....and...." pooh

what I do is, I still call it folk/trad or 'in the tradition' to denote stuff that is newer, but with the 'feel' of older stuff...and like Art says, we know it when we hear it. There is a NEED to be able to describe music with a certain feel, whether or not we get to keep the words pure

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 10:34 PM

I knew I could count on you Bill! Thanks for showing up.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: bob jr
Date: 21 Jun 00 - 02:21 AM

the problem here doesnt seem to be with the term folk but more how some people are defining it. people limit themselves by defining a thing too tightly. someone playing a guitar by himself aint neccesarily folk music and some one you think is a fake aint neccesarily so.calling music whatever you like is ok as long as you like what you play....i dont know if something is commercial or sponsered its fake man thats alot of good people to be tarring with that brush...maybe folk to you aint folk to me and vice versa but i dont like all the negativity i read here like some of you wearing folk like it is some kinda holy vestament or something its another expresion like country or the blues or jazz or rock or classical i try and find something to like in most music and if i cant i see that as a personal thing not a condemnation of a whole genre ....guess thats not clear at all but i just play i dont write too good

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: Bugsy
Date: 21 Jun 00 - 02:45 AM

See, I used to have this restaurant where I employed "Folk" musicians and gave the punters a 2 course meal and floorshow for the one low price. Also paid the muso's over the going rate for the work. I originally called it "THE ATTIC FOLK CLUB" and only got a few folkies and no other patrons. I changed the name to THE ATTIC MUSIC CLUB" and got a lot more patrons all of whom said they liked the entertainment. One guy came up to me and said, "That was great entertainment, What would you call that music?" When I told him "Folk", he said, "But I don't like folk music". He never would have come to the ATTIC FOLK CLUB, but had a great time at THE ATTIC MUSIC CLUB. He now goes to other folk clubs and enjoys the music.

I don't know if you consider him to be a little stupid or bigoted, but he's like so many out there who would love folk music if they got past the "folk" bit.

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: Kim C
Date: 21 Jun 00 - 10:13 AM

Klofsinger! I love it!

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 21 Jun 00 - 11:54 AM

What you call something should, ideally, have something
to do with what it is. If you want to stew some meat
in a sauce made of chilies, garlic, cumin and coriander,
that's fine; just don't call it oatmeal.

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jun 00 - 12:03 PM

Damn Dick!!!! I don't think you have used that before in these multitudinous "Define Folk" things and its GREAT!!!

There is a reason for definitions, even if its for simply saving time at the record store. We have a lot of new players on this thread, but the arguments are pretty much the same.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jun 00 - 05:27 PM

Not 'Folk' - What shall we call it' was followed by------

'Gardening can be dangerous'.

So we won't be calling it gardening then?

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jun 00 - 07:23 PM

"stew some meat in a sauce made of chilies, garlic, cumin and coriander" -that sounds very tasty. But I think it'd be better if you added in some oatmeal.

Or maybe porridge oats would be better. (I mean, if it's oatmeal, is it really oats?)

There used to be Chinese Restaurants and Fish and Chip Shops. Nowadays round where I live most of the Fish and Chip Shops are run by Chinese owners and sell Chinese Food as well. Sometimes we call them Chinese Takaways, and sometimes Chippies. The tradition marches on. I think Chinese Chippies are folk; and Macdonalds is fake.

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Jun 00 - 02:02 AM

Do they serve "Toad in the Hole" and call it "Frog in the Lotus Pond?"

I'll just have some grits.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jun 00 - 02:11 AM

Just number 23.

Subject: RE: BS: Not 'Folk' - what should we call it?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jun 00 - 03:11 AM

Well we could always try World Music? But………….What is it with the World?.