Peculiar Irony

Subject: Peculiar Irony
From: Mr. Green Genes
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:21 PM

I would hazard to wager that, if all the anti-war demonstrators would have voted in the last presidential election, the war on terror would today be the responsibility of Al Gore, "the man who invented the internet."

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:32 PM

Green Genes, before you begin this, how about getting your facts in order? The man did NOT say that. And YES. I venture to say that if Al Gore were in the White House we would not be where we are today.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:36 PM

Mr. Green Geans,

I'm guilty! Well, not exactly in that I brokered my vote and voted for Al Gore.... as a Greenie.

But, looks like the Greens aren't the only ones responsible for the current mess that the world finds itseld in. Looks very much like Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris broke the law. They hired some Repub. hit men to eliminate 57,700 black people from the voter roles in Florida. That is what did in Al Gore.

It's amazing what a couple crooks can do...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Mr. Green Genes
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 11:09 PM

Ebbie,
You are correct. I heard that speech and the way I remember it, I believe he credited the administration for the initiative which led to the invention of the internet. Is that close ?

I think if Bill Clinton had seen the pornography potential of the internet he would have been all over it and we would be able to give him some partial credit.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 11:43 PM

We most likely would not have a war on terrorism with Al Gore in the White House. BUT, this kind of speculation is pointless.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: NicoleC
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 11:49 PM

Actual quote from a March 1999 interview with Al Gore, "Well, I will -- I'll be offering my vision when my campaign begins, and it'll be comprehensive and sweeping, and I hope that it'll be compelling enough to draw people toward it. I feel that it will be. But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

FACT: The technology for the internet was originally created by the Dept of Defense in the 70's for military purposes only. The technology has been, of course, eclipsed in recent years, but the original concept of loosely networked computers is the same.

FACT: Al Gore never said he "invented" the internet.

FACT: Al Gore consistently supported legislation to broaden the use of telecommunications and computer equipment starting in the 70's, and even worked to get computers into Congress itself. Most of his legislation did not pass.

FACT: Despite years and even decades of technological research, the internet, as we think of it today, was launched in 1983. It was the realm of obscure internet newsgroups and their geeky college users (remember when you had to have a USENET client? and strap the phone handset into a big modem cradle?)

FACT: Gore sponsored the 1986 Supercomputer Network Study Act, designed to figure out how to get all this new technology working
to increase public information needs.

FACT: Senator Gore wrote and sponsored the 1991 High Performance Computing and Communications Act (introduce originally in 1988) which provided over $1 billion in research & development grants to technology companies like MCI, plus universities, schools, and other public groups. Funding for Mosaic, the original web browser standard, came from this Act. That investment made propietary online services like Prodigy, Compuserve and Delphi obsolete, and moved the internet into a common format widely accessible to the public. The vision: provide for teleconferencing, link your computer to millions of computers around the country, give you access to huge 'digital libraries' of information, and deliver services we cannot yet imagine."

Did Gore "invent" the internet? No. And he didn't say he did. But if it weren't for him (or some other guy down the line who did the same thing), the internet would probably still be an obscure military project.

It was a stupid way to phrase it, but he does deserve a lot of the credit (or blame) for bring the internet into private homes and it's huge success today.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Mr. Green Genes
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 11:50 PM

Yea, those terrorist really got busy when Bush moved into the whitehouse! Or are you implying we just continue to die without reply.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:01 AM

As I said...pointless speculation.

Thanks, Nicole for the real deal.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 01:31 AM

And thank you, Al Gore, for your contribution to bringing this amazing technology to people like me.

Here's an even bigger irony than the one that opens this thread (in my opinion). Remember GW Bush's famous catch phrase during his presidential campaign?

"I'm a uniter, not a divider".

;-)

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Troll
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 01:45 AM

Does anyone think that 9/11 would not have happened if Bush had not been elected?

troll

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: alanabit
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 08:25 AM

Can't say, can you? However, there were US presidents who would have led their people rather than followed them after such an awful disaster. Posturing and gesturing will only guarantee that terrorism stays with us for longer.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Sam L
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 09:06 AM

I the legislative sense, Gore did invent the internet. Ask Colin Powell's son Michael, who heads the FCC. And besides, why do you think they call them AlGorythms?

But it's a good point. I hope everyone will be sure to vote next time around.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: jimmyt
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 09:24 AM

seems pretty obvious that G Bush is leading and not following. At this point in time it would have been far easier to have given in to the emotional posturing and "followed" Right or wrong, I can't see how anyone can say that George W Bush doesn't have the courage of his convictions and is pressing ahead to do what he feels is the right thing.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: TIA
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 09:25 AM

Great thread title. I could add hundreds, but let's just start with this one:

"I don't want to try to put our troops in all places at all times. I don't want to be the world's policeman."








George W. Bush
Presidential Debate
Boston, MA
October 3, 2000

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 09:36 AM

Looks to me like 911 had to be in the works for a long time before Bush was ever elected, so I doubt it has anything to do with Bush, per se...except that he has since used it to launch two illegal wars, so it's proven convenient from the point of view of his advisors...Karl Rove, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and so on. They wanted a good excuse to set the US military loose in the World, and they got it.

Osama has also gotten what he wanted...the imminent (probable) destruction of Saddam's hated anti-religious Baath regime, the further driving of a wedge of hatred between Islamic peoples and the USA, the further cause for greater terrorism upon the USA and upon the Arabs and Israelis too. A holy war par excellence.

Pass the champagne for the Republican Deep Thinkers and Osama Bin Laden, the big winners of 911. Glasses all around.

- LH

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 09:37 AM

Just a reminder that more people did vote for Gore than Bush. Too many of them just happen to live in the wrong states. The Bush presidency is the result of an out of date system in which the vote of a person living in a populous state like California counts for more than that of a person living in North Dakota. It's high time to abolish the Electoral College and provide for direct popular election of the President. Now, if we can only convince the Republican-controlled Congress that the system whose flaws put their man in office needs changing....

Bruce

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: GUEST,Casual Observer
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 09:52 AM

Bobert, could you please present evidence for your claim about Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush? You're assuming that all of those people "eliminated" from the rolls would have voted for Al Gore. How do you know that?

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 09:58 AM

New title for Operation Iraqi Freedom: Operation Thanks A Lot Ralph Nader!

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 10:14 AM

I wonder why they didn't call it Operation Iraqi Liberation....

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: TIA
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 10:19 AM

Help, we are drowning in peculiar irony! This is too much fun:

"...once {a U.S.-led coalition} starts meddling in the internal affairs of sovereign nations, where does it stop?"

"...we are starting to resemble a power-hungry imperialist army creating an occupation by foreigners."

"International respect and trust for America has diminished every time we casually let the bombs fly."

"...it is unfair and unrealistic of the United States to demand that {a dictator} agree to allow foreign troops to have free rein over the entire country. This is like asking him to slit his throat with his own people... no wonder {the dictator} refused."





Current House Majority Leader Tom DeLay
on the floor of the House
May 6, 1999

{the U.S.-led coalition was NATO}
{the dictator was Milosevic}

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 11:26 AM

now, now...don't hold them boys to their earlier statements. How can they be successful politicians if you demand consistency?

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:00 PM

[quote:]

Does anyone think that 9/11 would not have happened if Bush had not been elected? [unquote]

Yes. Me (aside from the question whether he was duly elected or not).

Undoubtedly the planning for what became 9/11 had already been done, but it might not have been implemented in September 2001 if there were a US president who looked serious about tackling the Israel/Palestine problem rather than one who seems to give Likud and those to its right free rein. Military operations staff develop the plans and capacity for all sorts of operations which are never implemented. And 9/11 was a very professional operation that demonstrated considerable planning and execution capability, whatever you think of its perpetrators.

From the time that the Bush administration took office, it took a succession of initiatives which demonstrated contempt for international order and the rule of law, not to mention the rights of the Palestinians. Any vestige of an indication that it might apply even a modicum of pressure to the Sharon regime to go some way towards respecting countless UN resolutions and peace initiatives could have encouraged Al Qaeda to stay its hand. But the Arbustitist Machtergreifung may have been the event which convinced the people who had made this particular plan that they might as well implement it then rather than hope for a peaceful settlement. If the Middle East were at peace, there would be no "need" for the intrusive US military presence in Saudi Arabia which was the stated grievance of Al Qaeda. And if the US hadn't interfered as much as it has in so many countries in the region, Saudi Arabia might not be in the hands of anti-democratic fundamentalists who are financing the seedbeds of resentful fundamentalism both there and in other countries including many European countries. And if Saudi Arabia wasn't a powderkeg waiting to explode, the US mightn't feel the need to invade Iraq (which has nothing whatsoever to do with Al Qaeda, apart from the "Q" in its name) in order to secure future oil supplies. And so on.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:31 PM

Green Genes: Ebbie,
You are correct. I heard that speech and the way I remember it, I believe he credited the administration for the initiative which led to the invention of the internet. Is that close ?

Yes. Close. So why did you say this? "Al Gore, "the man who invented the internet."

Every time someone repeats the lie, another person believes it.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: jimmyt
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:33 PM

"Now I want you to listen to me, I did not have sexual relations with that woman" Yeah, I can see where repeating lies gets us all in trouble

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: GUEST,Casual Observer
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:52 PM

I guess technically he didn't have relations with her, since they aren't presumably related... that must be what he meant.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: TIA
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:57 PM

I know, I'm becoming annoying now...just one more:

"We had oral sex. He prefers that modus operandi because then he can say, 'I never slept with her.'"






Anne Manning
Campaign Worker for Newt Gingrich in 1976
(speaking about her candidate)

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: jimmyt
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 01:06 PM

Hell, Tia, YOu got a point. Fact of it is, they are all a bunch of sorry lying politicians, Let's get behind my new idea.

LITTLE HAWK for President, of the new Coalition of UNITEDSTATES and CANADA REPUBLIC

What do you all think? CLinton Hammond will think it is a good idea as it will make those pesky border crossings easier There have to be other benefits as well

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 01:21 PM

Good idea Jimmy, except for one thing. Little Hawk and Clinton are the same person. It's the perfect example of a split personality....although Little Hawk IS quite a bit taller.

Rick

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: TIA
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 01:27 PM

I'm in. I'd like to see a Tim Hortons in my town.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: jimmyt
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 01:53 PM

is that the joint that sells fish and donuts? great consolidation of use for hot grease!

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 02:28 PM

I think it depends on what the definition of "that woman" is. I think he was referring to a woman off camera at the taping. Or to Marlo Thomas, perhaps.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:43 PM

As gayly we go off to war, for reasons sure unknown
To get a taste of blood and gore, with billions in bombs thrown
Our president, the resident, T'will think on nothing else
Persistant gent, not hesitant, nor guilesome with his stealth

Betwixt and t'ween, with peaceful lean, does Europe wish conclusions
Our standard mean, a deviant dean, ignores allied collusions
This road is clear, both far and near, of happy resolutions
Instead we've fear, all in one ear, deriding constitutions.
ttr

PS. Make peace, people!

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:46 PM

Thanks for the surprised guffaw, Rick!

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 12:00 AM

It's quite funny (and sad) that the entire country was in an uproar about Clinton's sexual behaviour in the White House, and yet when Bush commits his military masturbation, the people are divided on the issue.

What is worse, illicit sex or illicit war?

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 12:03 AM

Me again. For a really funny take on the FIRST Gulf War, read "George Carlin on the Bush War," available at

http://www.the-broadside.com/satire.htm

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Alasdair
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:42 AM

Illicit sex is both fun and natural. Illicit war, well, I guess that depends on your perspective

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: kendall
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 09:49 AM

It's common practice for the opposition to mis quote their "enemy" and, the republicans are very good at that! They are downright paranoid about a democrat getting elected.

A classic case, in Florida, Claude Pepper was running for re election, and his republican opponent had people going around telling the truth about Pepper. Problem was, the people had no clue what the words meant; all they knew was, they sounded bad. The statement was:

When Claude Pepper's wife lived up north, she "matriculated with thespians."

We all know about Nixon and his dirty tricks dept.
He came in promising us law and order and to uphold the constitution. He gave us,
Breaking and entering
Perjury
Lies
extreme paranoia.
Reagan came in with a promise of balance the budget. He never even SUBMITTED one.
Iran- Contra
Arms for hostages
He left with a 5 trillion dollar debt.

Clinton came in with a promise to end welfare as we know it. He did it. He left with a huge surplus, which "resident Bush" spent along with every bit of goodwill we had after 9 11
Clinton gets a little nooky on the side, Reagan lies to us on TV, yet Clinton gets tarred and featherd while "the actor" gets an airport named after him.
Can someone explain how our priorities got so screwed up?

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 12:51 PM

It's politics, baby. Politics is a game some people play to WIN, not to render service to the public. There may be a certain crew in charge now who literally believe they are rendering service to Almighty God in launching a war in the Middle East, however, and if so, that is very dangerous. In any case, whatever way you look at it, they are playing to "win" (on their terms). That means most of us lose.

- LH

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 02:07 PM

LH, the shrub certainly thinks his mission is Divine. Commerce Secretary Evans was quoted as saying this about him: He understands that he is the one person in the country, in this case really the one person in the world, who has a responsibility to protect and defend freedom.

One person in the whole wide world...wow...how does he sleep at night?!

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 04:17 PM

He's not sleeping as well as he used to, kat... seems the war dead are starting to pay him nightly visits, as they will for the rest of eternity... sad for him... the only thing that can redeem his soul at this point is Saddam's head on a stick. Not much redemption there...

Clinton didn't just have 'elicit' sex, he was 'set up' and persued by an informant prostitute, a self fulfilling prophecy directed by entrapment oriented right wing fledgelings...

I have had a taste of that nonsense myself... girls decide to nail you... get you hot... when you're not... ttr

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: NicoleC
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 08:16 PM

But haven't you heard? There will be no Saddam on a stick -- it's been declared that we don't have to get Saddam to "win."

Which is a good thing, after all, since we've been having a little trouble actually finding those pesky enemies lately. And no doubt 40 years from now, people will be reporting the saw Saddam or bin Laden living in Brazil -- roomies in the house Hitler used to live in in *his* ninties :)

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Troll
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 09:10 PM

How Clinton managed to get that surplus with a Republican dominated Congress has always puzzled me, Kendall. How'd he do it? And where did Bush spend the money?
Or is the whole thing just smoke and mirrors; the surplus only existed on paper and it wasn't spent, the Govt. just changed bookkeepers.

troll

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: GUEST,Cliint Keller
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 10:10 PM

Well, I understand GWB himself said there was a surplus, so we could lower (some) taxes and keep spending. Would George deceive us?

clint.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Sam L
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 01:14 AM

Troll,

Well, I'm not an economist, but I never saw the boom of the Clinton economy in the people around me. And I've read that the US gnp was and is counted in a different way than elsewhere, and formerly. The basic idea is if you're a baker, how many loaves of bread can you bake in a work day. But in the US we count the value, the idea that the bread is enhanced, is just better. Also, many tech advances used to be in the area of work reduction, now they are mostly work-expansion. You can work at home, in the car, on a boat, on a plane. It's hard to count the baker's hours, baking those loaves, anymore. And the added values especially in the computer and digital industry are hard to account for in terms of real value to anyone. How many of the things your computer could do do you ever get around to using?

    If we have to have tv presidents--they're all repulsive, Clinton biting his lower lip, acting EARNEST as HELL, or Bush wrinkling his brow, acting like he's Thinking--if we must, I suppose Clinton did the right thing in cheerleading the economy. Because that can add up, actually, I suppose.

   I think Saddam deposed is important in and of itself. The means is a question. But it's odd how it's been the thing to call him by his first name, as Bush does, in posing questions about how nations feel about "Saddam". Substitute any familiar-sounding name and it sounds like one is discussing how to kill a playground bully. Even Hitler was "Mr.Hitler" in the news back then.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Troll
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 02:12 AM

The average worker in the US now works more hours per week than any others in the industrialized world, for fewer benefits and less time off. On the other hand, we have the lowest taxes.
JFK was the first TV President and it's been downhill from there ever since.
Like I said, it's all creative accounting; smoke and mirrors.
Do you know how to tell when you are a success as an accountant?
When they name a loophole after you.
Do you know why people go into accounting?
They don't have the personality and charisma to be a Funeral Director.
Ba-dum-bum....ching!

troll

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 01:03 AM

I've been wondering about that myself, Fred. I don't like calling him 'Saddam', sounds too chummy. On the other hand, did you see the Iraqi airport that's named after him? That's right- it's called Saddam Airport. Is it possible that Saddam is part of his surname? And his first name is something like Willie?

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Sam L
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 02:48 PM

I don't know, it may actually be a matter of Iraqi ettiquette that I'm unaware of, like gender endings of surnames in russian. Anybody know?

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: NicoleC
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 03:16 PM

Some middle eastern countries use family surnames in the last place, like Western names. Although this is a recent convention; it isn't historical. Historically, surnames from most of the middle east referred to a placename, much like the origins of surname in Europe.

"Saddam" is not a name, it's a title. Hussein al-Takriti is his given name (i.e. Hussein of the town of Takrit). Saddam was adopted as kind of a political name, and it means, roughly "the Destroyer."

Technically, we should use the full "Saddam Hussein" ala Ivan the Terrible or Richard the Lionheart.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 07:06 AM

Or Bullwinkle the Moose.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: DougR
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 12:49 PM

It seems to me that during the 1991 war, George Bush's using "Saddam" when referring to the dictator was considered an insult, as reported by news sources. Not so?

DougR