Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: Megan L Date: 18 Nov 08 - 01:44 PM I never open links unless a friend has notified me in advance that one has been sent or created, one can never be sure if it contains a virus. |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: GUEST,Big Tim Date: 18 Nov 08 - 03:42 PM Much as I like Hall and MacGregor, I wouldn't take their notes as absolute gospel. Here's what John Greig said about the song, in his 'Scots Minstrelsie'. 'The words of this song were published anonymously in 1803 by Sir Alexander Boswell, Bart, for reference to whom see under 'O Auld Guidman ye're a Drucken Carle'. Of the air Mr. Stenhouse says, 'This beautiful tune has, time out of mind, been played at the breaking up of convivial parties in Scotland'. Granted that this may have been so in the past, 'Auld Langsyne' is the song which in the present time [1890s], almost universally does duty in this respect at Scottish gatherings. In many of the old and important collections of our native minstrelsy, such as Macgibbon's, Oswalds, Johnson's, and R.A. Smith [of Braes of Balquidder fame,] this melody occupies the concluding place. In Sir Walter Scott's 'Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border' there is a fragment entitled 'Armstrong's Goodnight', which, with Sir Walter's note regarding it may well be quoted here: 'The following verses are said to have been composed by one of the Armstrongs, executed for the murder of Sir John Carmichael of Eldrom, Warden of the Middle Marches. The tune is popular in Scotland, but whether these are the original words will admit of some doubt: This night is my departing night, For here nae langer must I stay, There's neither friend or foe o' mine But wishes me away. What I have done thro' lack o' wit, I never, never can recall, I hope ye're a' my frieds as yet, Good-night, and joy be wi' ye all! 'Sir John Carmichael, the Warden, was murdered, 16th June, 1600, by a party of Borderers, at a place called Raesknows, near Lochmaben {Dumfrieshire], whither he was going to hold a Court of Justice. Two of the ringleaders in the slaughter, named 'Ringan's Tam', and Adam Scott, called 'The Pecket', were tried at Edinburgh, at the instance of Carmichael of Edrom. They were comdemned to have their right hands struck off, thereafter to be hanged, and their bodies gibbeted on the Borough Moor, which sentence was executed, 14th November, 1601'. Other versions of the present song, all based more or less on 'Armstrong's Goodnight', have been written by Joanna Baillie, Lady Nairne, the Ettrick Shepherd [James Hogg], and John Imlah [a progenitor of Hamish Imlach, probably]. To the same air was set Burns's 'Farewell to the Brethern of St. James's Lodge, Tarbolton [Ayrshire]', which, it is said, was sung to the Lodge by the poet when his chest was on the way to Greenock, en route for the West Indies [to which he never went as his book of poems in 1786 earned him a small fortune]. The following quotation fron Burns will conclude our reference to the song: 'Ballad-making is now as completely my hobby as ever fortification was Uncle Toby's, so I'll e'en canter it away till I come to the limit of my race (God grant that I may take the right side of the winning post); and then, cheerfully looking back on the honest folks with whom I have been happy, I shall say or sing, 'Sae merry as we a' ha'e been;' and raising my last looks to the whole human race, the last words of the voice of Coila shall be 'Goodnight and joy be wi' ye a'!' |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Nov 08 - 03:57 PM Interesting point Megan, The link was in fact to the Digital Tradition on the Mudcat, so there is nothing to worry about. I don't think there should ever be any risk from a link in a post - but I've started a thread asking about this, just in case I'm wrong, and it might be possible for a virus to get in that way. |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: Megan L Date: 18 Nov 08 - 04:08 PM Thanks McGrath I Had a nasty case from another site and a link i thought could be trusted so till i get told different i will be ultra careful |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: Rowan Date: 18 Nov 08 - 04:36 PM Rowan, I don't think I've ever said "hooroo". I assume it means something like bye-bye: is it an Aussie expression? That it is, Snuffy. It was more frequently heard in my youth, along with such terms as cobber and bonzer (both of which I think I've seen in Mudcat's Oz glossary) but it is still heard occasionally among older people. There are other Oz terms meaning bye-bye that still have currrency; "Bo-bo" is heard among indigenous people in the Top End, "Catch yah" is heard more in rural areas than in cosmopolitan ones, and "Look after yourself" is widespread. Apologies for the thread drift but I reckon there's some relevance to the song. Cheers, Rowan |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: Lighter Date: 18 Nov 08 - 04:59 PM "Hurroo" may be most frequently associated around here with "Johnny, I Hardly Knew Ye." |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: GUEST,Big Tim Date: 19 Nov 08 - 04:06 AM Sue, I just re-read your post and the notes on the Hall/McG LP are actually very good! So, my apologies to the writer. Is there a name given? Hope it wasn't 'our very own' Jim McLean!, who did write the sleeve notes for Hall/McG's LP 'We Belong to Glasgow' (1970). |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: Jim McLean Date: 19 Nov 08 - 05:03 AM Hi Big Tim, the sleeve notes to Hall/McG's LP 'We Belong to Glasgow' (1970)were split between myself and Clifford Hanley but there is no reference to Good Night and Joy be wi' you a' as it is not on the album. The two verses you quoted in your last posting are from the Burns' version on the last page of Johnson's Scots Musical Museum, printed after Burns died. Joanna Baillie's version called Good-night, Good-night begins: The sun is sunk, the day is done, E'en stars are setting, one by one; Nor torch nor taper longer amy Eke out the pleasure of the day; |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: GUEST,Jorrox Date: 19 Nov 08 - 05:06 AM Re The Clancys singing Parting Glass at a funeral of one of their number. It wasn't Liam's funeral - thankfully he is still with us and is pretty much 'last man standing' of that scene. The funeral in question was that of Paddy Clancy, the eldest of the brothers (just over 10 years ago). It was sung at his graveside by Liam & Bobby Clancy, Tommy Makem, Ronnie Drew, Finbar Fury, Paddy Reilly and others. This was featured in the documentary tribute to Paddy, all of which is on Youtube - this being the link to part one of three. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6j-JlAN5Fh4 |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: Jim McLean Date: 19 Nov 08 - 05:07 AM Sorry, hit the wrong button.. Nor torch nor taper longer may Eke out the pleasure of the day; And, since, in social glee's despite, It needs must be, Good-night, good-night! |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: Jim McLean Date: 19 Nov 08 - 06:48 AM Sorry, Big Tim, I misread your posting; I thought you were asking WHO wrote the sleeve notes for Hall/McG's LP 'We Belong to Glasgow' (1970) |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: Nick E Date: 20 Nov 08 - 09:58 PM Well.. in my stumblng around I find the Pouges do a version of this song. If Liz does not think every bar denizen is a drunk, she may be right, the song must be about mainlining heroine! wtg liz! |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: Sue the Borderer Date: 04 Dec 08 - 08:07 PM Hi Big Tim I've just refound this thread. In answer to your question, the sleeve notes for the "Scotch and Irish" LP (with the Parting Glass on) were written by Jimmy MacGregor. Thanks for all the information...... those "frieds" made me laugh - and wonder if there was a French connection.... Sue |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: gnu Date: 30 Sep 12 - 11:08 PM I said it before. |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: Georgiansilver Date: 01 Oct 12 - 02:10 AM You might recognise these as being at that funeral! |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: Dave Hanson Date: 01 Oct 12 - 03:23 AM Far too flowery Georgiansilver, try and find the version by Ronnie Drew, much better Dave h |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: Jim Carroll Date: 01 Oct 12 - 03:35 AM The song works best for me when it is sung unrehearsed by a room full of people with just one lead singer. I remember being very moved at The Frank Harte weekend (I think it might have been the first one following Frank's death) - it seemed to sum up everything that the man whose life was being celebrated was about. Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: Georgiansilver Date: 01 Oct 12 - 05:57 PM OK Dave... this is my version... is that too flowery? (or just crap? LOL) The Parting Glass. |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: stallion Date: 01 Oct 12 - 07:18 PM try this one! |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: Joe_F Date: 01 Oct 12 - 09:00 PM As to the DigiTrad version, most commonly sung in America these days, it is clear that he is saying farewell to the company on the spot ("I should rise and you should not"), but that he is also leaving town, and that right soon ("wish me one more day to stay"). Probably he has to get to bed betimes in order to get up & be off. For me, most of the poetry is in the first stanza. There is a flash of malice in that "Alas" (if only I had had the guts to do the harm to my enemies instead!), followed by a flash of paradise (with the help of the booze & the company, he has gotten rid of all his shameful memories). If I were dictator, I would follow that up straight with the wonderful advice in Boswell's 3rd stanza: Your ain ills ay hae heart to bear, Anither's ay hae heart to feel. Fortitude & sympathy! Thank God, the flame of conviviality is not quite yet out. |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: Dave Hanson Date: 02 Oct 12 - 03:46 AM Hi Georgiansilver, I loved your version, I found The High Kings [ what a feckin name ] far too ' showbizzy ' Dave H |
Subject: Lyr Add: SWEET COOTEHILL TOWN From: mayomick Date: 02 Oct 12 - 07:16 AM An emigrants' farewell song. When Irish people sailed for the US in the nineteenth century, it was rare that they ever returned, so family and friends held a "wake" for them the night before they left. I think Sweet Cootehill Town preceded the Parting Glass. This is from the database, sung to the same tune:
SWEET COOTEHILL TOWN |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: GUEST,Chris Date: 09 Aug 24 - 01:36 AM It was once the custom that as a man was walked the distance from the prison to the scaffold, he could stop and take a drink at every tavern along the way. Rising as a symbol of execution was also common, as in Loch Lomond -- "I'll tak' the high road and ye'll tak' the low road." |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: GUEST,RA Date: 09 Aug 24 - 02:03 AM No, no - YOU tak the high road and I'LL tak the low road. |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: The Sandman Date: 09 Aug 24 - 02:36 AM It is whatever you want it to be |
Subject: RE: The Parting Glass, About what? From: GUEST,Jack Campin Date: 09 Aug 24 - 04:39 AM We can do without history being turned into total bollocks the way "Chris" did it. No such custom ever existed anywhere and there is no evidence for any covert meaning in "Loch Lomond". There is a continuous chain of resemblances from the Skene MS fragment of 1625 through Scott's version to Alexander Boswell's to the Clancys. They're all the same song. |
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