What kind of minidisc recorder?

Subject: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 01:47 AM

I'm going to be at Camp Harmony in California next month, and would like to be able to record lots of songs. I know lots of people have minidisc recorders, but it's a technology that has completely passed me by. (I still have my Walkman Pro that I bought in 1987, for about $100. But when I took it to Singtime Frolics in 2000, none of my recordings came out because I didn't think to change the battery on the 12-year-old stereo microphone.)

Any suggestions on a good minidisc recorder to get, and other tips on using it? I don't need state of the art, just one that will give pretty good quality from live recordings. What kind of files are recorded on these things? WAV? MP3? I'm clueless here.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 03:21 AM

I believe the file format is OMG... and if you want to be able to 'upload' them to your PC, the only option CURRENTLY is to 'real time' recored them using a program like CoolEdit or similar...

IF you invest in a High-Density MD recorder, in a few months you will have access to software that will allow you to upload recorded files as quickly as dragging and dropping any file from any current 'external' source to your hard-drive...

You will also, with Hi-MD, be able to record 1 GIGs worth of audio on a single disk (45+ hours I think...)

Try here for more info on Hi-MD
http://www.minidisc.org/hi-md_faq.html

Good luck!

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: moocowpoo
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 05:26 AM

well, I could talk about the the minidisc (atrac) recording system but you'll find all that info from the site clinton suggested a look at...what is more confusing, is sifting through all the reviews and comparisons,,I'll tell you my experiences:
Firstly, I have owned md players for about 7 years now and they're wonderful!, I have made recordings at folk festivals of great bands who have no cd, so nice to have this hardcopy to supplement the memory.
I still have my first Md, (It only just died, it still works but the display has had it)
It's a Sony (MZ-R70) It records beautifully, and you have control over the recording level.   The bast thing is that it's quite easy to use....However, its biggest flaw is that it has a lot of motor noise.   In July I made recorings at Kaustinen folk fest, in Finland, and I'm editing the last of it now and there are quite a few tracks where the "whir, click, vvvvvvvvfffft!" of the motor, is clearly audible. I use a long cable to bring the mic as far as possible from the machine but, the noise is still there.
I also own a panasonic (SJ-MR220), It records beautifully live, is easy to use and it's motor noise is barely audible. The ONLY drawback is the playback volume is not very high. This is only because the headphone amp is just 3.5 Mw (instead of the usual (5.0). This is not a concern if you just want to put it on your computer, it's just a bit annoying when, listening to music on a train.
The MD player I'm most satisfied with is my Sharp, (MT-99W)
Like the panasonic, I bought this from ebay, It records nicely (all mds seem to reord nicely), the motor noise is minimal. The playback volume is amazing!, Sharp Md players have a reputation for being, generally the loudest in playback.
One of the most important concerns, for recording is battery longevity. panasonic is one of the best, my one uses a gumstick battery, a recharge gives huge recording times. The panasonic also has a little screw-on, AA battery case for the option of battery types. For me, Ideally, it's best to have the choice of battery types, If I were to chose between an Md which took only AA and one which took only gumstick, despite the longgevity of the gumstick, I would always chose AA, they're just more readily available, should you have a OhNoIjustUsedupAllmyRe-chargables!, emergency.
I hope this rave helps you, if you have any other questions please ask!
moocowpoo

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: moocowpoo
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 05:45 AM

Oh, also, 'net-md' has been available for a few years, with a Net-md you can do very fast transfer to pc. The downside of Net-mds is, a lot of them dont have mic inputs (some do, the minidisc site will help with specs).
Clinton also talked about HI-MD, well I haven't really looked into these, I think they can record music, compressed with mp3 format.
They probably just use ATRAC to do mic recording tho, I don't know...it's worth looking into if you want a fast transfer to PC and huge disc storage, Me, I don't mind just plugging a cable from the Md headphone (or line out) socket, into my soundcard and just letting it play through. It all depends on how patient you are and what volume of field-recorded stuff you actually want to put on PC.
moo

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: treewind
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 06:01 AM

Can you transfer from MD to PC with net-MD?
I though one of the irritating limitations was that you can only go the other way. Has that changed recently?

Like you, I just use the MD (mine's a Sony MZR-30, old but one of the best they made) like a cassette walkman without any of the noise and distortion. MD audio out -> PC audio in : sorted! You don't need to know about ATRAC. MP3 etc because you don't get access to the data in that form; it's just audio in, audio out.

Most portable MDs with a mic socket supply electret power so a really simple electret mic without its own batteries will work, really well too.

Whatever, http://www.minidisc.org is and always was the place to go for information.

Anahata

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: BanjoRay
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 06:06 AM

Don't be afraid to use it at it's slowest recording speed to get the most time per disc - I used to record at fastest to get the highest quality, but experimented with the slowest and can't tell the difference, so now I spend a lot less on discs.
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 06:54 AM

"Can you transfer from MD to PC with net-MD?"

You will be able to with Mi-MD when the software is released (A matter of a few months IIRC)

And ya... make sure your unit will use regular old AA batteries (I get MONTHS of use out of one) Internal rechargable, short life batteries are one of the many down sides to I-pods...

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 07:00 AM

"now I spend a lot less on discs"

I never thought the disks were really expensive enough to worry about that... and with Hi-MD, one 10 buck disk will hold 33 (I checked) hours of music...

Also with Hi-MD, the old disks can be reformatted to hold 10 hours.... How sweet is that????

:-)

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: moocowpoo
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 07:11 AM

oops yes treewind, you're right I got it the wrong way round. The current net md is only pc to md fast transfer..I sit corrected

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 07:36 AM

MDs were first devised as as a way of allowing you to download tracks from CDs and to play pre-recorded MDs. They nearly all have optical digital imput, but to prevent pirating of tracks there was no digital output. Nowdays, pre-recorded MDs are defunct, and CD writers make the pirating of CDs a doddle, for downloading CD tracks MP3 is now the norm.

I still don't know of any small walkman size CD recorders which have digital output (there are some full-size decks), which is a great pity as one of the main uses of MD recorders these days is for making live recordings. When will the manufacturers realise that the original reasons for not including this feature have been completely voided by modern technology and put the matter right.

I have a Sony MZR-30 which has some great features, but which I find rather fiddly to use - especially if I want to use manual recording level. I recently bought a very cheap Sharp model, which is extremely light and compact, uses only 1 AA cell, and has manual recording level as a default. It also supplies "phantom power" for the microphone which means that I don't need an additional battery. I have been very pleased with the recordings that I have made with it.

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: treewind
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 11:56 AM

A very early Sony (MZ3 ?) had digital out but I have a feeling this used a lot of battery power and was discontinued in later models for that reason.

The MZR30 also has mic power.

Anahata

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Bernard
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 12:38 PM

My Sony Net-MD works in both directions (via USB), but the really annoying thing is the files are copy protected during transfer - they sit on the PC waiting for you to upload them back to the disc they came from, and nowhere else! Fat lot of use that is!! Added to which, the software is crap!

For some obscure reason it has co-ax in only, but optical in and out (my Walkman only has optical in)... so I bought a cheap sound card with optical in/out and co-ax in/out, which makes life easier. It's still real-time transfer, which is a pain.

What would be really useful (for me) would be an internal MD drive, but I doubt it will ever happen!

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From:
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 04:10 PM

I would recommend going through the number of threads on the Mudcat that discuss the Minidisc. It's quite informative.

I would recommend any of the minidisc models you like the look/feel of as long as it has a Microphone input. Most current Walkman type portable MD recorders don't have microphone inputs, and they do cost more. However, you CAN purchase one of the many which don't have such as LONG as you purchase a microphone (none of the ones I know COME with one), with a PREAMP to bring it up to Line Level. Apparently not ALL MD recorders have the Line-level in, so you might want to look and make sure.

In one of the previous threads I posted links to microphones with preamps.

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 04:12 PM

MD drives for PCs are about as old as MDs themselves... they just never caught on (I seem to recall that Zip-Drives won the marketing war...)

They can be had... the tend to be very expensive...

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 10:36 PM

Thanks, all. Lots of info to sort through here. I did do a forum search before posting (I am an old hand, after all), but didn't find anything.    Nobody mentions that you're supposed to do the forum search while you're awake...

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 11:01 PM

I believe the remarks George Seto refers to are in thread 33411: Minidisc recording


At that time, several recommended the Sony Portable MD player/recorder MZ-B10. It has a flat mic.

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: harpgirl
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:06 AM

...I am looking at this page for stero mikes which seems like a wise idea if one wants good recordings for making CD's of music one participates in: minidisc stereo mikes


hg

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 09:40 PM

Well, I got the Sony Walkman MZ-NHF-800, which, Clinton will be pleased to note, is a Hi-MD machine. It was $238, which seems to be a good deal, especially since that includes a "free" $75 stereo microphone (powered by the unit). The power is from a single AA battery or AC converter. The only problem I can see (or not see!) is that there's a multitude of tiny buttons, most of which have labels that are embossed or engraved rather than printed, none of which is very friendly to 50-year-old eyes. It comes with a cute little remote control device embedded in the headphone cord, with even tinier buttons. The remote control even has a built-in AM/FM radio!

Now if I can just figure out how to use the sucker, and if I can find a little case with a strap so I don't drop it in the mud, I'll be in great shape for Camp Harmony. (Then after camp I can figure out how to use Audacity to edit the hours of music I hope to record... )

Thanks for your help, everybody.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 11:09 AM

Cool deal Mark!

When you decide you no longer like it, I'll give it a good home!

LOL

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 12:39 PM

I had one of those and had to give it back, everything was too small on it for anyone other than a dwarf -- also it was far too complicated, it was too tiresome.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 12:45 PM

A Sony MZ-NH900 has external mike available, etc. Is it too small and fiddly as well?

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 01:09 PM

Yes, it was a 900 I got. I sat down and tried to make it work for about three days, and gave up. The knobs are tiny, and the instruction book is enough to drive you completely mad. It makes learning how to fly a Boeing 707 child's play. I gave up, and instead wired up my G-4 Powerbook, with an external mic, which took like 30 seconds. I should have done that at the outset, but everyone told me how great Minidiscs were.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 01:17 PM

Mini-discs -are- great... Don't diss it cause you weren't sharp enough to suss out it's very simple functionality...

I know 5 year olds who can run mini-disd players/recorders...

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 01:17 PM

These are certainly the way to go now. I have a cabinet full of my Dad's various approaches to recording at his music sessions. They're all analog, however, so I have to figure out how to convert tapes to digital to CD. If he were alive today, he'd be using the digital devices, I have no doubt. (He LOVED gadgets!) Sounds like you found a nice one, Mark. (My daughter had that kind of in-line remote you mention on her CD player and loved it, but it finally wore out and she had to go back to using the buttons on the player itself.)

I've been dabbling at converting Dad's tapes, with mixed results. Meanwhile, I could start a museum with all of the high-end and (in their day) very useful but now out-of-date devices and peripherals.

SRS

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 09:23 PM

Mark, if you read this, when you figure out how to use it, let me know what you think about it. Like Peter, I always lose in the war with instruction books.

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Amos
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 09:36 PM

Peter T is being a curmudgeon and a tech-grinch. And this from one of his most constant fans.   The Sony MDR is a terrific piece of equipment and works flawlessly ONCE YOU LEARN IT. This requires understanding four or perhaps even six buttons each of which has between two and six choices. Maximum, a 24-item decision tree, divided into subsections.

It isn't apple pie, but it no harder than 2-pie-R.

A

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: IvanB
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 01:58 AM

I have an older Sony MZ-R55 and I love it! My experience with all the Sony's at least, is that each button performs any of several different functions, depending on sequences, combinations or the like. No biggie, but it DOES mean one must read the manual to become comfortable with the operation. But I also found that I'm interested in only about 10% of the available functions, so, once I learned those, use of the unit is simple.

I'm with Clinton on this one. I've been saving my pennies to buy a Hi-MD machine when my R55 gives up the ghost, but so far it seems to keep chugging along just fine.

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: MaineDog
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 08:43 PM

I'm looking for a mini-disk data drive that interfaces to a computer, via scsi or ide, and allows us to edit the actual data on the minidisk.
Any ideas?
MD

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Peter T.
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 08:02 AM

Like most of these things, it has an interface only a tecchie could love. We are twenty years into the human-centred design movement, and these people still have no idea. Not everyone is a twelve year old nerd.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: treewind
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 08:22 AM

SCSI MD data drives for PCs (or Mac) did exist once but they're long dead now.

You couldn't read audio data with them anyway - all you could do was start/stop record and play on audio disks. With data MDs they were like Iomega Zip and Jaz but slower and more expensive. Bit of a dead duck really.

Anahata

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: ConcertinaChap
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 08:57 AM

There is a gotcha you hould know about on many (maybe all?) Sony MD recorders. There is a little button called End Search that you are supposed to press before you do any recording on a disk that already has something on it that you want to keep. If you don't, you run the risk of over-recording the material that was already there. The minidisk communtiy site has some sad sob-stories from people who have overwritten the only recording of their daughter's wedding and the like. Other makers apparently manage without this button.

Chris

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 11:01 AM

"End Search"

Mine defaults to beginning recordings from the 'end' already...   As a matter of fact, I think that's the default to all of them now... if you don't want it to do that, you have to turn that feature off...   And well, given how inexpencive the discs are... if you don't want to record over something, use a new disc...

Data
Well, the new HD modles will carry data... but as to editing, maybe have a look around -Here-

"it has an interface only a tecchie could love"
So put it back in it's box, and mail it to me, techophobe... oh... wait... you already took it back... so what now? Yer just here to bitch and suck and whine and moan all over this thread? Get stuffed

Here's a quarter... make a phone call to someone who cares, and have them come and build you a bridge so you can get the f#ck over it!

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 12:05 PM

That MDP500 looks the biz, anybody got a spare $1400?
Giok

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: DebC
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 12:22 PM

This has been a great thread.

My Sony MZ-R700 died when I was in the UK last year. Apparently (and I got this from the minidisc.org site) you need to use an AC adapter for the country you are in rather than use an adapter plug to convert the voltage.

I looked into getting mine fixed, but it would have cost more than the unit was worth, So I researched the newer models. A mic input was essential, which the R700 had. With the exception of the Sony NZ-900, the later models dropped the mic input.

So on the recommendation of a friend, I went to Ebay and bid on and won a Sony MZ-R50 that is in perfect condition. It really is a nice machine and you can bet that I'll be visiting a Tandy store when I am in the UK in '05 and purchasing a 6 volt adapter for use in Britain.

BTW-the stereo mic I use is a ECM-ds 70

Deb Cowan

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: 12string growler
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 02:22 PM

DebC
"Visiting a TANDY Store", Sorry to tell you that Tandy stopped trading in the UK around 3 or 4 years ago and sold their shops to Carphone Warehouse. You could try MAPLIN's, CURRY's, DIXONS, POUNDSTRETCHER's etc all nationwide chains. You could also try the first street market you come across. They will sell you the same gear with a different lable but cheeper. Expect to pay £3 to £5.

Chris

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: DebC
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 02:57 PM

Thanks, Chris. Didn't know that Tandy was no more.

Deb

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: 12string growler
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 03:03 PM

Woolworth's (Big W) or any of the Superstores like Tesco, Asda(part of walmart), Morrisons, etc also stock em with multi-way dc power jacks.

Chris

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: John C.
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 04:14 PM

I bought a Sony MD recorder a couple of years ago and soon discovered that you needed a degree in computer science just to switch it on. After failing to record several things I consigned it to a drawer where it languishes still. Needless to say I will not be buying any more Sony equipment - ease of use is my no. 1 requirement for electronic/digital gear.
As a sort of stop-gap, until something better comes along, I tried using an Olympus voice recorder with the Sony ECM-MS907 microphone that I bought to go with the MD recorder (that just has an on/off switch which even I can operate!). The recorder takes a 64 Mb SD card which can hold 22 hours of recordings (!). It is also possible to download the files onto a hard disk, via a USB cable, and convert them to WAV files. Obviously the quality isn't brilliant but, by coincidence, a friend recently leant me some reel-to-reel tapes that he made on a Ferguson recorder back in the 60s - the quality is at least as good as that (much better than I thought I had any right to expect).
At least now I have a personal record of some of the great singing that I have heard during 2004.

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 04:25 PM

PM sent John C.!

:-)

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From:
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 04:43 PM

ConcertinaChap
Um, all the Sony MiniDiscs I have used or owned, are set to start recording AFTER the end of the last track. You CAN set it to start wherever it happens to be (like right in the middle of a track), but that's not usually desired. HOWEVER, you might drop the unit, and it is mis-aligned so it tries to start recording at Track 1. If you notice that it is starting at Track 1, you should NOT press STOP! Take OUT the Battery. It will keep it from writing a new Table of Content and thereby losing whatever else was on the disk.

DebC,
the newer model to the R700 is the N707. It is identical to the R700 but with the Group capability. Same inputs, Mic & Line/Optical In.

John C (any relation to Deb? 8-)
I found the MiniDisc machines fairly easy to operate. Except for the Jog-Wheel thingie, it is the same as a Tape Recorder. In some ways it reminds me of the oldest tape recorder I had, a Sanyo with the T shift lever.

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: MaineDog
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 05:22 PM

So who is going to build the recording gear of the future, if not the 12-yera-old nerds of today? I was a 12 year old nerd once, and it led to a 37 year engineering career.
MD

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 06:39 AM

Hey Clinton, go and have a drink, man. What happened, your Christmas shopping getting you down? I have a right to use my crappy experience to tell people that Sony makes products for twelve year olds -- we were asked for our advice. That was my advice. Am I supposed to be a shill for Sony?

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Looking For A Good Tape recorder
From:
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 05:28 PM

Hi,
I'm looking to purchase a good quality tape recorder. I need a dual speed tape recorder with both 3.75 and 7.50 speeds. I can be contacted on 0412 367 059 or the email address is [e-mail].

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: John C.
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 05:35 AM

Reading this thread I am struck by the thought that the world really is divided into those who can operate gadgets and those who have problems (I fall into the last category).
I had to smile at one of the contributions above in which we are informed that the Sony MD recorder is easy and merely requires mastering a 24 branch decision tree (with subsections). I could probably just about cope with 5 options: 'on', 'off', 'record', 'stop recording', 'transfer files to computer' - I can't even imagine why you might need (at least) 19 more!

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 09:56 AM

I'll happily take it off yer hands John C.!

:-)

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 12:58 PM

I am one of those people who 'has problems' with gadgetry. I can learn simple functions beautifully though!

This weekend I'm embarking on a 30 day train trip. I don't want to take along a stack of CDs but I do want music. I'm told that iPod is the way to go, with MP3 that I 'rip' off the CDRom, and that it will hold all the music from my current collection of CDs that I could possibly want.

Is this how I want to go? Any further advice?

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 01:05 PM

Minidisc Ebbie IMHO
Giok

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 01:57 PM

How many hours of music can I put on a minidisc, Giok?

I have a friend who has a tech store, primarily featuring Sony. I know they sell minidiscs. Do I need a speacial feature on an MD?

Thank you.

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 02:46 PM

Hi-Density Mini-disc players can get 43 hours of music on one HD disc...

Subject: RE: What kind of minidisc recorder?
From: shepherdlass
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 03:16 PM

This may have been pointed out already - haven't read the whole thread as I'm in a rush - but I thought I should cover it in case no-one else had.

If you're going to record with a mic, please don't make the mistake I did: I failed to check whether the MZ N510 had a mic socket - it only has a line in, which is great for transferring recorded music but doesn't give any kind of pre-amp boost for less powerful inputs. Therefore anything recorded with a mic sounds more than a bit distant. Other than that, it's a great bit of kit, lightweight and very reliable. Just make sure you get the full specs before buying!!!