Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 08:12 PM

If they asked me, I could write a book, Rowan--I didn't really get into any discussion of the things that really interest me about the works themselves, aesthetically or politically--It is a point worth noting that the film version of "Threepenny Opera" was directed by GW Pabst, who was one of the leading exponents of Expressionism.

PG--Brecht had practically no place to go--he'd been invited to the Allied occupied zone, and that invitation had been rescinded, in Switzerland, he had worn out his welcome, when it came to light that he'd been granted Austrian citizenship, the outrage was so great that the project that he was working on, which was a revival of the Saltzburg Festival, completely collapsed, and he essentially was handed his walking papers.

When he returned, the GDR had not yet been formed, and "East Berlin" was simply the Russian occupied territory, and it wasn't necessarily clear what the future would be. Brecht was not alone, many German intellectuals went to the Eastern Zone with the hope of rebuilding the devastation in a better way.

Certainly there were romantics among them, but Brecht was no romantic. He was a playwright, whose ongoing goal was simple to create and produce his work.

There were certainly others Germans who left the US for the Communist Bloc. Vladimir Pozner, who was for years a fixture on a variety of news programs, grew up in the US and returned with his family to East Germany in the 50's. His father was actual a friend of Brecht's. And you could ask Pozner to explain why his family went back, but you'd have to go to Moscow, where he now runs a restaurant.

Another to ask about the appeal of East Germany would have been Dean Reed. Though he was labelled "The Red Elvis", he was one of us--an American folkie who played Lomax and Woody and Weavers tunes, and embraced a lot of New Left ideas. He was a big star and made a lot of money on the other side.   You can't ask him, though, they found him floating in the water near the boat dock on his palatial estate. Hmm.

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 09:35 PM

M. Ted-

You should consider writing the book or at least an article. Brecht is an important literary figure and there isn't much perspective evident in this thread.

I don't have a lot of familiarity with traditional German folk music, other than drinking songs and sea shanties. But I don't think either of those have much to do with what I find intriguing about the music that Brecht and his friends created.

I also think that Brecht found Hollywood in the World War 2 period only endurable because he was doing something to help the war effort to defeat Nazi Germany.

When he fled the States in the late 1940's to Switzerland, it was only a temporary haven. And the offer from East Germany for financial support for his own theatre company was compelling, and his wife did have family in East Berlin; his wife was also a principal actress in his plays. The East German "commissars" were never comfortable with Brecht but their Moscow counterparts were savvy enough to engineer a Starlin Prize or whatever it was called.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 09:48 PM

Here's a nice quote:

Esslin puts the "curious paradox" of Brecht in a nutshell: "Brecht was a Communist, he was also a great poet. But while the West liked his poetry and distrusted his Communism, the Communists exploited his political convictions while they regarded his artistic aims and achievements with suspicion."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: Rowan
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 10:11 PM

A nice quote, Charley; it sums up my understanding of how he was regarded, on both sides of The Wall.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: Rowan
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 10:23 PM

And I've just remembered there were others in a similar position. Early on in my career I was taught by Ernst Matthei, who'd been a seriously heavy microscopist in preWar Germany; he entertained us with tales from his work there. I forget the details of which name (Leica/Leitz) came first but, postWar, the technology and staff of the original optical works was split between East and West Germany. Those in West Germany organised themselves into a fair copy of a workers' cooperative (which earned the suspicion of the Americans) while the ones in East Germany had no choice about being one, but had various 'capitalist' attirbutes that earned them suspicion from the Russians.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: GUEST,Gulliver
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 04:26 AM

You could say:

The West liked his poetry and distrusted his Communism, the East liked his Communism and distrusted his poetry.

Don

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: MAG
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 11:47 AM

Brecht was certainly an unashamed leftie. His "Lehrstucke" is all about dialectics. "Round Heads and POinted Heads" is about how divisions in the ruling class are eventually outweighed by their commonalities. (usually thought to be a commentary on Hitler's scapegoating of Jews) "Mother Courage" speakes for itself on complicity with war.

There is evidence that Brecht was thoroughly disillusioned with Stalinism; having his own theater with complete artistic freedom was something it would have been hard (impossible) for him to resist.

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 12:28 PM

Mr. Noble--When I made my comment about writing a book, I was just quoting a song as a way of indicating that I have a lot to say--I am not a scholar of any kind on the subject. I happen to have been reading a lot about Eisler lately, and also some of Eric Bentley, so Brecht is fresh in my mind.

I am more than delighted to find that there are some here who have an interest in Brecht and company--or good or ill, there always seems to be more discussion of Brecht's life than of his work.

I am afraid I am a bit guilty of that here, though perhaps it is because I am pleased to be talking about him at all. Be that as it may, here's another quote from Martin Esslin, grist for the mill.

"None of his plays has an openly propagandistic effect.
Brecht's Communism, based as it was largely on a fanatical
pacifism and love of intellectual freedom, has in any case
little in common with the present totalitarian form of
ideology..."

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: Joe_F
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 09:21 PM

_Die Massnahme_ (The Measures Taken, 1931) is a spirited defense of totalitarianism: "He who fights for Communism must be able to fight and to renounce fighting, to say the truth and not to say the truth, to be helpful and unhelpful, to keep a promise and to break a promise, to go into danger and to avoid danger, to be known and to be unknown. He who fights for Communism has of all the virtues only one: that he fights for Communism." -- Quoted by Koestler in _The Invisible Writing_, wherein you may read a synopsis of that play, which anticipates the Moscow trials.

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 01:51 PM

"The Measures Taken" is not a "spirited defense of Totalitarianism"--in fact, it is a debate of the what one is both obliged and entitled to do to battle evil in the world.

The "Lehrstruck" were a group of collaborative performances that were intended to explore questions about the relationship of the individual and the community. They were intended to provoke debate and even outrage. Which they did, and still do.

"The Measure Taken" is about a group of Communist agents who go into China on a mission. One of their number, is so moved by the suffering that he sees that he tries to help, and this jeopardizes the mission. The other comrades compelled to kill him in order to successfully complete their mission. The play takes place as the surviving comrades explain what has happened to some sort of higher committee.

The statement about Communism, above, "He who fights for Communism must be able to fight and to renounce fighting, to say the truth and not to say the truth, to be helpful and unhelpful, to keep a promise and to break a promise, to go into danger and to avoid danger, to be known and to be unknown. He who fights for Communism has of all the virtues only one: that he fights for Communism." Is only one side of the question.

The other side comes from the murdered man, who says that Communist doctrines allow "misery to wait" and that if they don't provide that "wretched and that every wretched human being should be helped before all else", then they are dirt--

He goes on to say, "I give up all agreement with the others, I alone will do what is human."

In the end, the communists conclude that the measures taken to achieve its objectives were correct, though perhaps unfortunate,( just as any government, corporation, religious group, or advocacy group might) that but the audiences were left to deal with the unpleasant implications of it all.

This was the intention of the Lehrstruck--to create discussion about the relationship between the individuals moral vision and the objectives of the community--

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: MAG
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 08:27 PM

er, "Lehrstu(e)ke" - Learning Pieces -

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: LeTenebreux
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 02:10 PM

Interestingly, in French it's the "l'opere de quatre sous" (four penny opera!)

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 01:38 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: JJ
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 08:51 AM

Those interested in Brecht's work in Hollywood might seek out "Hangmen Also Die!" Fritz Lang's 1943 film about the assassination of Reinhard Heydrich and its aftermath. "Bert Brecht" shares adaptation and original story credits with Lang.

These were Brecht's only Hollywood credits, I believe. And the music is by Hanns Eisler!

Although set in Czechoslovakia, the film's actors are purely American (Brian Donlevy, Walter Brennan, Gene Lockhart) in their casting, their manner and their speech, reinforcing the theme of our shared humanity with the Czechs.

I caught it on VHS, but I see it's now available on DVD. This movie features the scariest Nazi I've ever seen in Hans Heinrich von Twardowski's Heydrich.

Subject: ADD Version: Ballad of Mac the Knife
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:31 PM

BALLAD OF MAC THE KNIFE
Ralph Mannheim and John Willett translation

Ballad Singer:
See the shark with his teeth like razors.
All can read his open face,
And Macheath has got a knife, but
Not in such an obvious place.

On a beautiful blue Sunday
See a corpse stretched in the Strand
See a man dodge round the corner-
Mackie's friends will understand.

And Schmul Meier, reported missing
Like so many wealthy men:
Mac the Knife acquired his cashbox
God alone knows how or when.

Jenny Towler turned up lately
With a knife stuck in her breast.
While Macheath walks the Embankment
Nonchalantly unimpressed.

And the ghastly fire in Soho-
Seven children at a go-
In the crowd stands Mac the knife, but he
Isn't asked and doesn't know.

And the child-bride in her nightie
Whose assailant's still at large
Violated in her slumbers-
Mackie, how much did you charge.

Act 1

Very close to the German posted above.
Brecht, Bertolt and Weill, Kurt
1. Die Songs aus Der Dreigroschenoper. Quarto paperback with photos, and sheet music in German.
2. Die Dreigroschenoper, 1979, English translations by Ralph Mannheim and John Willets, Copyright Stefen Brecht and Kurt Weill Foundation for Music Inc. Link by Wolfgang in thread 115251, Call from the Grave. Call from the Grave
Book not found.

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:41 PM

Excellent!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: M.Ted
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 12:25 PM

Perhaps they follow the German lyrics closely, but they don't really work very well in English.

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 12:57 PM

The Mannheim-Willett lyrics in English can be sung to the Brecht-Weill tune- that is why their translation is so remarkable!

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 02:58 PM

Lyrics (German) from the cd "Ute Lemper sings Kurt Weill" here:
Weill

Some Kaiser-Weill material here as well as "Die Moritat von Mackie Messer."

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: M.Ted
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 10:00 PM

I've got a nice recording of Lotte Lenya singing the Blitzstein lyrics, and she doesn't have any trouble singing them to the tune. As to how well the MH lyrics can be sung, the syllables don't scan properly in many places, the language is often awkward, and obscure where it should be direct--lines like this following don't have much punch:

"And the ghastly fire in Soho-
Seven children at a go"-

The thing is, these are theatrical lyrics, the audience neither knows nor cares how closely the language tracks the original German--they don't even care that there was an original German--they respond only if the show speaks to them--

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 10:23 PM

A matter of taste, I guess.
To me, 'And the ghastly fire in Soho-
Seven children at a go- has punch!
Perhaps more than Brecht's 'seven children and an old man.'

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 10:34 PM

Lyr. Add: PIRATE JENNY
Trans. R. Mannheim and J. Willett

POLLY: Now you gents all see I've glasses to wash.
When a bed's to be made I make it.
You may tip me with a penny
And I'll thank you very well.
And you see me dressed in tatters, and this tatty old hotel
And you never ask how long I'll take it.
But one of these evenings there will be screams from the harbour
And they'll ask: what can that screaming be?
And they'll see me smiling as I do the glasses
And they'll say: how she can smile beats me.

And a ship with eight sails and
All its fifty guns loaded
has tied up at the quay.

They say: get on, dry your glasses, my girl
And they tip me and don't give a damn.
And their penny is accepted
And their bed will be made
(Although nobody is going to sleep there, I'm afraid)
And they still have no idea who I am.
But one of these evenings there will be explosions from the harbour.
And they'll ask: what kind of a bang was that?
And they'll see me as I stand beside the window
And they'll say: what has she got to smile at?

And that ship with eight sails and
All its fifty guns loaded
Will lay siege to the town.

And a hundred men will land in the bright midday sun
Each stepping where the shadows fall.
They'll look inside each doorway and grab anyone they see
And put him in irons and then bring him to me
And they'll ask: which of these should we kill?
In that noonday heat there'll be a hush round the harbour
As they ask which has got to die.
And you'll hear me as I softly answer: the lot!
And as the first head rolls I'll say hoppla!

And that ship with eight sails and
All its fifty guns loaded
Will vanish with me.

Joe Offer, 19 May 97, posted German lyrics with an extra verse inserted as verse three. Was this in the written script but not used in the production, or used in some presentations (American), or did it arise in some other manner? It is not in either the German text or the Mannheim-Willett translation at either of the two places it appears in the 1979 libretto, copyright Stefan Brecht and Kurt Weill Foundation for Music, Inc.

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 05:29 PM

In the original 1728 Beggar's Opera, are there scenes or songs that correspond with "Pirate Jenny" and "Mack the Knife"?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 01:08 AM

Hi Joe-
As I recall, there were no songs in Beggar's Opera corresponding to either.Jenny Diver was a bit player in the original.

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 02:08 PM

Nobody's got Jenny right, though: she's halfway between Brenda Ann Spencer, the sub-adolescent 16 year-old whose explanation for shooting up the Grover Cleveland Elementary School inspired "I Don't Like Mondays", killing two adults and injuring eight kids, and Eponine, from Les Misérables: her elder sister could be Nancy from Oliver Twist, a prostitute from age 13 and clapped-out (literally) at 16. The adolescent whose rebellion goes far beyond storming up to her room, this one has no room and no shelter, but only deep revenge in her heart. In this I'm of course hearking back to the Beggar's Opera, where
Mac the Knife is born in MacHeath, and Jenny's Jenny Diver, a dip (specialist pickpocket able to "lift" something from the bottom of the deepest pocket, where others might use a knife to cut the bottom out so the contents drop through). In the original, Jenny sells MacHeath out, and so he head's Peachum's list for the next Tyburn Dance. However, the heritage was purely inspirational, in the idea that the sins of the eighteenth Century may be common to Power and not context: give the defenceless poor to rich abusers and see what happens.
What will be interesting to see over the next few months is whether the management of the criminal classes Gay and Rich attacked in the 18th Century (down to, for instance, the heirarchy on the tumbrell where the Highwayman was king of the graduates of the Court of Miracles) continues in the protection of the child abuse circles of our day: they had a go at the PM of theirs. Those of us who keep the background to Thomas Hamilton's motivation in the Dunblane shootings in mind won't be surprised at the current attempts to stifle the Parliamentary investigation.

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: Joe_F
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 08:50 PM

I have heard that (after making fools of HUAC) Brecht prepared himself for his return to (east) Germany by making sure of his Austrian passport & Swiss bank account. Smart fellow.

Subject: RE: Pirate Jenny & Mack the Knife
From: GUEST,Mark Leier
Date: 20 Sep 22 - 10:08 AM

Frankie Armstrong has a newer album of Brecht, Weill, and Eisler material. On this and the earlier Brecht album with Dave Van Ronk, she sings a version of "Pirate Jenny" that is powerful and for my taste more evocative than any other I've heard. She adapted her version from various translations and added some changes of her own. Perhaps the best one is to ditch Blitzstein's "black freighter" and "ship with eight sails" for "ship with black sails and 50 cannon." The 8 sails is a direct translation, but it's weak; black freighter seems to distort the whole thing. Black sails fits it perfectly, imho. And sounds like the German "acht," or 8, sails.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHNUcRK2np8