BS: de Valera a British Spy

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 03:19 PM

I asked Chongo. You wouldn't believe the network of simian investigators he has out there collecting dirt on various people for future reference when it might come in handy. They put Sherlock Holmes' "Baker Street irregulars" to shame.

Chongo tells me that Spaw has been spanking the monkey so hard lately that it's starting to hit back.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Paul Burke
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 03:32 PM

Though I understand the Baker Street Irregulars were cured by juduicious use of senna pods.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 04:01 PM

I find it of interest that Dev, may or may not have been an English spy.
but if no one else does just leave the thread alone.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 04:09 PM

But I leave it to the Hawkster to keep Chongo's Chicken appropriately choked!

I think we need more senna pod info......What effect do senna pods have on chimps? This might explain why CHongo gets erect in the presence of Canadian folk singers!

Hawk is simply jealous that my buddy Cheech taught me his ways and his power over little orphan girls while LH's hero, one Major Tom, went off the radar while whipping the bishop.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 04:16 PM

Watch out for the Great Pumpkin, riding high in this season, and punishing those who stuff the hole in the turkey with the wrong ingredients.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 04:17 PM

Whoa!! Damnation Q! That sounds painful!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 04:33 PM

Fo, fo, fo, for de Valera
In comes Mary at the door aye oh
Mary is the one who will have a bit of fun
And we don't want Annie any more aye oh.

Rope skipping song honoring de Valera, from Dublin.
Now who was this Mary and was having a "bit of fun" what it sounds like? Did rejected Annie take revenge? Maybe she was the one who started the story.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 05:04 PM

LOL!

This is the first thread on the Irish Troubles that I have genuinely enjoyed.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: MartinRyan
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 06:42 PM

Before this gets out of hand (so to speak) that skipping rhyme would have been "Vote, vote for De Valera". The girls were the next in line - isn't that always the way?! ;>)

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 07:41 PM

MartinRyan correctly names the political election song on which the skipping rhyme is based.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 04:05 AM

Seriously, tho ' - and to humour Dick - if de Valera had been a British spy (and I remain to be convinced) why did he oppose the 'Anglo-Irish Treaty' ?

It seems to me that if he were working for the British he would have welcomed the 'Treaty' with open arms (so to speak) ?

Do not suggest that he was playing a 'long game' - I said it above and I'll say it again - what he got in 1932 he could have had in 1922 ; and if he had been a British spy, on his terms.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 04:08 AM

No, on second thoughts, the posts on wanking are more interesting, especially 'Spaw's.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: freda underhill
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 11:59 AM

Margaret Thatcher was secretly working with Castro, implementing the theory that things have to get worse so the people will rise up.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: freda underhill
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 12:07 PM

De valera's father was Cuban, so maybe there is a link there....

perhaps Maggie Thatcher is secretly Castro's sister and working quietly, using Chongo the Chimp as interlocutor.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 12:13 PM

Whoa! What a concept!

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: freda underhill
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 12:17 PM

deep, I know.

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 02:11 PM

Very deep......Let's have Hawk use his special underground garage source...Deep Chimp.   I have one of those souces too but he's strung out on cocaine all the time. They call him Deep Crack and he's always a bit behind on things........



Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 04:11 PM

Deep Chimp has revealed things to me that I dare not even share with my close friends on Mudcat...

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 04:15 PM

Make that closest friends on Mudcat...

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 04:46 PM

Well at least its not your closet friends on Mudcat.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 13 Nov 09 - 05:14 AM

Wot ? No wanking ?

I'm going home, so there.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Nov 09 - 01:28 PM

A couple of additions to Catspaw's list:

Wet the brush- translated from Mexican Spanish
Stoke the fire
Bird in the nest (Spanish gipsy)

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:56 PM

originally Posted by The Zurich Connection View Post
'De Valera was a British spy'

Book claims national hero was 'turned' after 1916

By John Spain Books Editor
Monday October 26 2009

A NEW book to be published next month makes the shocking claim that Eamon de Valera, the founding father of the nation, was under the control of the British.

The book, provocatively titled 'England's Greatest Spy: Eamon de Valera', suggests that Dev was terrified of being executed after the Rising and was "turned" in exchange for his life. For some years afterwards, the book claims, Dev was under British control.

The 470-page hardback is published by Stacey International, a London publisher specialising in politics and history.

The author is retired US naval officer and historian John Turi from Princeton, New Jersey. He developed an interest in Irish history through his wife, who was born in Ireland. Turi has been researching his controversial book for a decade.

The case against de Valera by Turi is based firstly on a detailed analysis of Dev's emotionally stunted formative years.

He claims Dev was rejected by everyone in his early life -- his mysterious father in New York (in fact, Dev was probably illegitimate), his mother, his uncle in Ireland, who treated him coldly, even the Church, which rejected his ambitions for the priesthood because of his probable illegitimacy.

His miserable upbringing left Dev with an inadequate personality, Turi suggests, which made him susceptible to being influenced later on.

Turi is scathing about Dev's erratic behaviour during the Rising, when he was in charge of the men at Boland's Mill.

He stayed awake for days, became disorientated and issued confused, sometimes ridiculous, orders. "It was not just his tactics the men questioned," Turi writes, "they questioned his sanity as well."

Dev kept his men "sitting on their heels" while a short distance away at Mount Street Bridge eight Volunteers were trying to hold off hundreds of British soldiers.

In fact the men at Boland's Mill played little or no part in the Easter Week fighting, Turi says, because Dev was so exhausted and fearful.

At the end of the week, when word reached Boland's Mill of the surrender, Turi writes that de Valera "abandoned his men and slipped out of Boland's at noon on the Sunday, taking with him a British prisoner . . . as his insurance against being shot before he could surrender".

Cowardly

"De Valera the cowardly, incompetent, mentally unstable officer who deserted his troops was (later) repackaged as de Valera the lonely hero fighting valiantly against overwhelming odds."

What followed was also suspicious, Turi says.

Dev later claimed that he was tried with a number of other men and sentenced to death.

Turi writes: "Not one of the men allegedly tried with de Valera ever confirmed that such a trial took place, and there is no trace in the British Public Record Office of any trial."

He also quotes the flat denial by the army prosecuting officer, William Wylie, that de Valera had been tried.

Turi also considers Dev's fragile mental state and tearful collapse at Richmond Barracks the night before he was taken to Kilmainham, to where condemned prisoners were sent.

All the events indicate that Dev was terrified of dying, Turi suggests, and that it would have been easy for the British intelligence officer Ivor Price to turn Dev into a British collaborator. Major Price was "skilled at manipulating weakness".

Turi notes that Dev was the only one of four Dublin commandants not to be tried and executed.

He dismisses theories that Dev was spared because he was born in America or because the British realised that further executions would be a mistake; as others were executed later.

The only reasonable explanation, Turi claims, is that Dev was "turned". In all, Turi sets forth a dozen instances of what he calls "de Valera's machinations that aided and abetted British interests" to support this claim.

Collins

Some of this 'evidence' concerns Dev's activities in the US after he was released from prison -- which split the powerful Irish-American lobby.

Turi also says the British feared what Michael Collins might do in the North and used de Valera to engineer the situation that resulted in Collins's death.

Turi also calls Irish neutrality during the World War II "a hoax on the Irish people and a major boon for English interests".

His book, which ends with a call for a posthumous trial of de Valera, will be published in Ireland and Britain on November 30 and in the US next year.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 08:59 PM

Spaw! I can't believe it. I've known this country song for a good 50 years and I never knew! Ignorance is bliss, they say.

I'm a-walkin' the dog and I'm never blue
I'm walkin' the dog. Ain't thinking about you
Don't need no one to tie me down
I'm walkin' the dog and a-paintin' the town

Such an easy life I ever knew
Until the day that I lost you
I'm a carefree lad that's seen the light
I'm walking the dog all the day and all night

Well i'm full of strength and just can't grow old
I got a one track mind so I've been told
But I'm fancy free and don't worry no how
and I'm walkin' the dog all the law will allow

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Dec 09 - 02:59 PM

a very interesting book,the author makes a very good case.
open minded people should read it.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Paul Burke
Date: 26 Dec 09 - 06:42 PM

Rubbish. De Valera was a Mason and an agent of the illuminati.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 04:37 PM

page 351,quote.
Despite all his efforts to publicly eliminate the trappings of British rule,de Valera continued to receive his commission from the Governor General, and whenever travelling outside the country, he requested a British passport so as to enjoy the protection of the Crown.
page 397 quote.
When travelling abroad, de Valera recognized the King of England as King of Ireland and signed his passport acknowledging the fact that he was a subject of the King seeking safe passage under the Crown.

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 07:01 AM

Subject: RE: BS: de Valera a British Spy
From: Bryn Pugh - PM
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 04:05 AM

Seriously, tho ' - and to humour Dick - if de Valera had been a British spy (and I remain to be convinced) why did he oppose the 'Anglo-Irish Treaty' ?

It seems to me that if he were working for the British he would have welcomed the 'Treaty' with open arms (so to speak) ?

Do not suggest that he was playing a 'long game' - I said it above and I'll say it again - what he got in 1932 he could have had in 1922 ; and if he had been a British spy, on his terms.
buy the book, read it,and consider the arguments the author puts forward.
virtually everything, De Valera did worked to the benefit of the British, check out how he managed to split irish american support, check out his splitting tactics generally.
people should read the bOok ,before making ignorant unknowledgable staements.
he was Edward de Valera,not Eammonn.he was aconsummate liar.