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Subject: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: Liam's Brother Date: 11 Apr 00 - 02:17 PM There was a thread on this topic a few months ago. I came across the following on eBay and thought some Mudcatters might want to take a look... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=301546597 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=301546597
All the best, |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: GUEST,zander Date: 11 Apr 00 - 02:47 PM no such thing as right folk songs. Dave |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: JedMarum Date: 11 Apr 00 - 03:07 PM for conservatives; this land is NOT your land! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: Mooh Date: 11 Apr 00 - 03:39 PM ...well...besides the songs and land they steal... Far left of centre...Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: BlueJay Date: 11 Apr 00 - 03:51 PM They'd probably get a real kick out of Phil Ochs" "Love Me I'm a Liberal". I am a moderate Democrat, but have many conservative friends. Don Malin is as conservative as they come, but we don't let that interfere with the MUSIC, when we get together. More rooted in music theory than I, he can play damn near anything very well, when he's not off at the Republican caucuses somewhere. He's one of my favorite people to jam with. Conservatives may well have their own set of folk songs, such as "Union Busting Songs", or "The Stock Market Rag". I don't mind, as long as they don't try to tell my kid how to pray in school. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: Chet W. Date: 11 Apr 00 - 03:58 PM Time to put myself in a category, I guess, rather than examine the pros and cons of a given issue. Chet |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: GUEST,Uncle Jaque Date: 11 Apr 00 - 04:00 PM "Yes we'll Rally 'Round the Flag, Boys; rally once again; Shouting the Battle Cry of Freedom"... ("The Battle Cry of Freedom": George F. ROOT, American Civil War - July 1862) |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: JamesJim Date: 11 Apr 00 - 04:10 PM Enough! Please! Labels are for jars, bottles and boxes. They do little good for the betterment of mankind. Jim |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: JedMarum Date: 11 Apr 00 - 04:11 PM chuckle - great comment, Chet! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: GUEST,Jim Dixon Date: 11 Apr 00 - 04:42 PM I find this fascinating. I've often wondered, why aren't there any conservative folk songs? Not that I would sing them . . . I looked at the e-Bay ad, and I was disappointed there wasn't more description. I can barely make out the printing on the album cover. Here is a partial transcription:
"Folk Songs for Conservatives (Question marks represent what I couldn't read.) There used to be a Maine humorist-storyteller named Marshall Dodge. He died in 1982. Any relation, I wonder? Do you suppose the whole thing is a leg-pull? I don't know; "Noel X and His Unbleached Muslims" sounds kind of vicious. I also checked out other items sold by the same vendor. Most of the titles sounded pretty bizarre. The only other apparently political one was "The Goldwaters: Folk Songs to Bug Liberals" While searching the internet for conservative folk songs, I ran across this essay called Songs of the Left, written by a man named Lynn Wooley (a victim of the "Boy Named Sue" syndrome, perhaps?), a conservative, who out of frustration that there were no good conservative folk songs, tried to write one. He gives the lyrics. Read them and see what you think. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: Jon W. Date: 11 Apr 00 - 05:09 PM While you're there, read this article by the same guy and see if it matches any of your reasons for being a folk musician rather than a pop musician. Jon W. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: GUEST,99+ Date: 11 Apr 00 - 05:14 PM I've got mine, shove off Jack. Me and mine are rosey, to hell with the pack. They're just bums that have to work to live. Keeps them out of mischief, they just exist to give.
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: katlaughing Date: 11 Apr 00 - 05:28 PM Here's a link to the previous thread Dan mentioned. I always thought it took two wings to fly; kinda helps with the balance thing, ya know? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: folk1234 Date: 11 Apr 00 - 05:31 PM Well, there's "The John Burch Society" and "Barry's Boys", later updated as "Ronnie's Boys" all by the Chad Mitchell Trio. A a little further to the right is "Your Friendly Neighborhood Klu Klux Klan" also by the CMT. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Apr 00 - 06:15 PM A conservative, properly speaking, should be someone who wants to preserve things more or less the way they are. On that definition all of us are conservative much of the time. And on that definition a lot of great songs are conservative.
Songs about all kinds of old-fashioned and traditional ways of doing things. But not just them. Take THE RED FLAG for example:
It waved above our infant might
It suits today the meek and base, And the same goes for so many songs about strikes - almost all of them are about people defending themselves against those who would take away their rights and conditions.
And yet somehow the word is used and exploited by those same people who would tear the world to pieces to make money, and who care nothing for tradition and for the decencies of life by which most of us rub along together and help each other.
And for the classic example of that - "There's no such thing as society" Maggie Thatcher crowing in triumph. There's good change that needs to be helped. And when you do that the word is radical. And there's bad change that needs to be resisted. And when you do that, the word is conservative.
And there are people who turn this on its head - and help the bad changes while resisting the good changes. And whether they call themselves "conservatives" (which they so often do) or "progressives" or whatever, they are the real enemy, at all times. And I don't think they have many good songs. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: raredance Date: 11 Apr 00 - 09:01 PM This is a little bit scary. I went to the ebay link and then to the other auction by seller. "Interesting "album covers. So what is scary? Well I have that album by the Goldwaters, (but I would rather keep that bit of knowledge a secret.) and the most recent bid was up to $26. Then there was this album called "Has Harp - Can't Travel" with a picture of a midget trying to get on a bus with a harp. The current high bidder was someone named "harp-girl". You don't suppose? rich r |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: ddw Date: 11 Apr 00 - 09:52 PM This kind of thread always fascinates me, but I usually have no idea what people are talking about. Can anybody tell me the difference between a liberal and a conservative? Isn't what we now call conservative really a 17th century liberal — those nasty guys like John Locke, who thought mankind could survive without the monarchy's absolute power? Now we're asked to think that liberal is someone who wants to take more and more power back into the hands of government — i.e., tax the hell out of everybody and run the lives of all the people they then give money to. There was a saying going around when I was in college in the '60s; Scratch a liberal and you'll find a monarchist at heart. Made sense then, still does. As for folk songs for conservatives, how about all the WORK songs out there? Most conservatives I know wouldn't object to those. Nor would most of them object to a lot of songs by Woody that told the stories of individuals who had been screwed by banks, governments, unions or any other group or institution. So somebody please help me with the definitions here; what's a liberal and what's a conservative? Isn't it really — in today's parlance, at least — just the opposite of whatever we consider ourselves when confronted with someone who disagrees with us? david |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: DougR Date: 12 Apr 00 - 02:19 AM My my my. One might conclude that only those of the liberal persuasion can enjoy folk music, if one accepts most of what is written in this thread. Most surprising to me, who considers himself a fiscal conservative (a Goldwater Republican) and loves folk music. I always felt that one of the most attractive traits of those of the liberal persuasion was acceptance of the fact that not everyone is going to share their way of viewing things. It is not so? So when we sing, "This Land Is Your Land, This Land Is My Land," it's not really true. Funny, I've never felt that way about my friends who are liberals. It's just as much their land as mine. Said with good humor. DougR
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: bbc Date: 12 Apr 00 - 05:41 AM Yes, Doug. I am a conservative & love folk music, too. It's a shame if the liberals don't think there's room for us. bbc |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: Grab Date: 12 Apr 00 - 08:45 AM As far as this goes, the definition seriously confused me, growing up in Britain in the 80s. Cos it was the Conservative party which wanted to (and did) change the way things were run (mostly for the worse, IMO, although kicking the unions in the nuts made absolute sense), and the Labour party which wanted things to stay the same! Go figure. Grab. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: JedMarum Date: 12 Apr 00 - 09:17 AM Liberal and Conservative are unfortunate labels we use these days. As an open minded, free thinking adult who cares deeply about his fellow man, I find that my heartfelt opinions on the issues of the day run the political gammut. If a Liberal is one who is open to change, open minded, free thinking, and accepting of others around him - even those with very different points of view - then I am a Liberal. If a Liberal is one who hates consrevatives, ridicules those who speak opposing points of view, and lashes out at public expressions of faith - then I want no part of that label. Doug - I hope you recognized my comment above "for conservatives; this land is NOT your land!" as sarcasm. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: BlueJay Date: 12 Apr 00 - 01:14 PM bbc and Doug R, please read my post above. Though I claim to be somewhat liberal, I have room for conservatives in my life. And music. I'm sure the vast majority of both liberals and conservatives feel as I do. Except for, perhaps, the extremes of both sides, these silly labels are not strong enough to preclude a good friendship. We are not that far apart on most things. And where we DO differ, that is good, because these things really need discussion. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: DougR Date: 12 Apr 00 - 01:49 PM Bluejay and Liam: Good points well made. BBC: I love you! Grab: I don't know how these labels would compare to political parties in Great Britain. In the US we have two major political parties as you know, I'm sure. You will find folks of the liberal and the conservative persuasion in both of them. I have litte patience, myself, for extremism whether it be liberal or conservative. DougR
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: Scotsbard Date: 12 Apr 00 - 02:23 PM Many years ago I heard a song slightly relevant to this topic, something about philosophical differenecs and folksinging:
(missing some lines here)
(chorus) There were several verses and they wind up in a band brawl. Anybody remember the lyrics to this one? For some reason I've got Alan Sherman in mind, but might be way off base. ~S~
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: Jacob B Date: 12 Apr 00 - 03:26 PM Scotsbard, I think Allan Sherman was already dead by the time this song was written (and he sang parodies, so this song wasn't his style.) I saw Johnny Cash singing it on TV. My recollection of the chorus is:
The one on the right was on the left The band brawl takes place in the second verse, and the third verse warns not to mess with "the folk songs of this land", and tells what happened to the band after they broke up (one drives a truck, one is an all-night disk jockey, and we've already covered what happened to the guy in the rear.) |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: Scotsbard Date: 12 Apr 00 - 03:58 PM Jacob B - That is definitely the ditty I had in mind. I've also heard the Cash version, now that you mention it. Was there an older version around or maybe someone remembers the title? I've had no luck with finding the remaining lyrics yet. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: JamesJim Date: 13 Apr 00 - 12:14 AM I'm reminded of one of my favorite Pete Seeger folk songs (reported to have been found on a bathroom wall in a retirement home); "My Get Up And Go Has Got Up And Went." And my favorite verse; "As sleep dims my vision, I say to myself, is there anything else I can lay on the shelf? First Bush, then Clinton, I surely am vexed; but I'll still stick around to see what happens next." I began my life as a Liberal and as I have gotten older, I have become more Conservative. No matter; I still love folk music. Oh, by the way, could that verse be changed in the next US election? "First Clinton, then Bush."..etc. Let's carry it a step further. In another future election, maybe it changes back to; "First Bush, then Clinton" - Hillary is still lurking, you know. Don't take this stuff too seriously! Jim |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: DougR Date: 13 Apr 00 - 12:26 AM JamesJim: Thanks for reminding me that that things could always get worse. Suppose Hillery has ever heard "Wildwood Flower?" If so, what do you suppose she thinks about it? I'd think as a true flower of Arkansas, or Chicago, or wherever, she would recognize it as a folk classic. But who knows? DougR |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: JamesJim Date: 13 Apr 00 - 12:29 AM I don't know what she would think, but I bet she has smoked some of it. And I'll bet she inhaled. Jim |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: ddw Date: 13 Apr 00 - 12:42 AM JamesJim — wasn't it Winston Churchill who said (paraphrasing here) "A young man who isn't a liberal has no heart; an older man who isn't a conservative has no brain"? I'd vote for that! david |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: JamesJim Date: 13 Apr 00 - 12:44 AM Words of wisdom, ddw! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: weststar Date: 13 Apr 00 - 01:29 AM Perhaps its helpful to concider that: Most of us are liberal in that we would like to maintain Liberty for ourselves and others. Most of us are conservative in our desire maintain the things that are things with which we are familiar as that is comforting. When we set these premises into the body politic and use them as labels, things ge turned around. Many of the most liberal people I know are politically Conservative. Many of the most intolerant people I have met consider themselves Liberal. It was Al Gore who said," Those who dont agee with us must be silenced."
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 13 Apr 00 - 05:29 AM I suppose supporters of UK's last two Conservative PMs could sing "Maggie May" and "Johnny I hardly knew you". Alex Glasgow used to do a song about a Conservative Minister (Lord Hailsham, I think) trying to ingratiate himself with the miners by donning "A little cloth cap" and trying to do a Geordie accent. Conra, who's been posting all those Geordie songs, probably knows the words. RtS (wishy washy pinko liberal non-member of any party- who'd have me?!) |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: GUEST,Bartholomew Date: 13 Apr 00 - 10:16 AM In the 60's, there were songs on the radio that were written specifically as responses to perceived "liberal" sentiments in folk and pop music. The two I'm thinking of are "Ballad of the Green Berets", by Sgt. Barry Sadler and "Dawn of Correction", artist unknown, that was a response song to "Eve of Destruction". Personally, I don't feel that music necessarily serves one political wing or another exclusively. Songs like "This Land is Your Land" state a common human feeling that should not be claimed by any cause as "their own". The fact that it was written by a man with "leftist-tendencies" should be irrelevant but, needless to say, is not in too many people's eyes. Music can be used to unite or divide - songs have been too often used as weapons by people of ill-intent, on both sides of the political spectrum. If there seem to be more folk songs that support leftist sentiments, perhaps it's because music can be such a strong change agent. The leftist movements that we have seen in this country have given us a great many beautiful melodies and sentiments that fit the folk form so well. Simple melodies, easily remembered, that can bolster the spirits on a picket line or sit-in. You don't see as much of that kind of activity traditionally in this country - and I know I'm speaking in broad generalities - on the right. Look to the Spanish Civil War (govt. side), Mussolini's Italy, or other conservative regimes outside of the states and I'm sure you could find a large body of conservative anthems used to bolster the courage and feed the inner fires of the true believers. Here we get "Dreams of the Everyday Housewife" or "Okie from Muskogee". One thing to keep in mind is that the terms "conservative" and "liberal" carry specific meanings, but only within a specific historical context. And one last thought (and please take this gently) - don't ever confuse the word "liberal" with "liberty".
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: IanC Date: 13 Apr 00 - 10:26 AM Hi I don't think most traditional folk songs have a left political slant, though it's probably true to say that many modern singers interpret them this way. I've always been quite interested in the fact that all the old versions of "The Greenland Whale Fisheries" have the lines The losing of that whale boys, it hurt the captain sore/but the losing of his men, it hurt him ten times more whereas almost all modern singers sing it as The losing of our men, it hurt the captain sore/but the losing of the whale, boys, it hurt him ten times more Probably says more about the people singing the songs than about the songs. Seems to me there's a whole lot of songs that are essentially politically conservative. Depends whether and how you sing them, though. Cheers! IanC |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: GUEST,TheOldMole Date: 13 Apr 00 - 11:37 AM The One on The Right Was on The Left is off an old Johnny Cash album called "Everyone Loves a Nut." Merle Haggard wrote some great conservative songs. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: DougR Date: 13 Apr 00 - 02:02 PM I do believe that this Thread has turned up some interesting comments. I was concerned that it might turn confrontational and am pleased that it didn't. DougR |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: Margo Date: 13 Apr 00 - 04:58 PM I was outbid on the conservative folk songs. I really wanted to see what songs there were. Old Mole, I'm interested in Merle Haggard's conservative songs. Have any titles? Jed, I'm relieved to hear it was sarcasm. Did anyone here at Mudcat win the bid? Margo |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: Richard Bridge Date: 13 Apr 00 - 05:35 PM There is a rather good "conservative" folk song (well, it's contemporary actually) based on a true (I think) story of the UK squaddie (in fact I think it's called "the squaddie") who was on post in a pub/shopping center/somewhere with women and kids whan an IRA supporter rolled a grenade in, and he lay down on it to save the civilians. I tend to think that the Battle SOng of the Republic is fairly right-wingish too - and any number of countryish songs |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: JedMarum Date: 13 Apr 00 - 06:41 PM I sorry my sarcasm was not more obvious. I often find myself playing devil's advocate to the thinly veiled bigotry against opposing points-of-view at the Mudcat. That frequently finds me arguing tolerance of opinions on 'right to bear arms' issues (though I don't own a fire arm), smoker issues (though I don't smoke) and religious freedom (though most Christians would label me agnostic) ... I highly resent those among us who call themselves Liberal being anything but by maliciously attacking opposing peopl with points-of-view. I am likewise appreciative of those among us, who call ourselves Liberal and display true acceptance of others (thankfully, that is the larger group). Good comments, y'all. Thanks! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: kendall Date: 14 Apr 00 - 09:25 AM the difference? If a liberal has a loaf of bread, he is willing to share part of it with the less fortunate. If a conservative has a loaf of bread, he will likely say "Go get your own, this is mine." When the great depression hit, no one knew what to do. But, while the republicans opted to "wait it out" FDR opted to call in people who DID know what to do. As he said "The republicans have a plan to deal with this "In the long run" however, people dont eat in the long run. My brother, a retired operating engineer, has a cap that says LABOR UNIONS, THE FOLKS WHO GAVE YOU WEEKENDS. He also has one that says, A WORKING MAN VOTING FOR A REPUBLICAN IS LIKE A CHICKEN VOTING FOR COLONEL SANDERS. I say, Who ever heard of a good piece of elephant? vote Democrat. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 14 Apr 00 - 09:31 AM Keep to the Morse Code,eh? Sounds good to me, Kendall. I've probably exceeded my weak joke quota for the week RtS |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: Jon W. Date: 14 Apr 00 - 10:45 AM I've gotta respectfully disagree with a lot of what you say, Kendall. From my view point, a liberal is someone who when asked for a piece of bread, goes and grabs one of his neighbors and gives it to the man. As a conservative, I'm just as likely to give the guy a piece of bread voluntarily as a liberal is. The difference is, I don't like being forced to do so by the government. The principal is this: Any thing that it is wrong for one individual to do to another (like steal his loaf of bread), it is still wrong for a group to form an organization (the government) to do to the other on their behalf. They can educate, persuade, cajole, etc. but NOT use force to get the guy to give up his bread involuntarily. Here are some things you don't need to be, and still be a good conservative: ignorant, racist, sexist, rich, homophobic, uncaring, uncompassionate, and anti-union. Here are some things you do need to be, to be a good conservative (under the US system): responsible, freedom-loving, and unwilling to use the government to force your neighbor to do what you think is right . Remember, we US conservatives are trying to conserve the ideas of the radicals of 1776 & 1787. So as far as conservative folk songs, how about "Yankee Doodle"? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: Rick Fielding Date: 14 Apr 00 - 12:43 PM Richard, that song was "The Soldier" by my pretty conservative buddy Harvey Andrews. He got RAKED for that one. Like most of Harvey's songs, it's well written and dramatically rendered. He was a good friend of Phil Ochs...imagine they had some fascinating discussions long into the night. Always glad to see your postings here. Rick |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: BlueJay Date: 14 Apr 00 - 03:22 PM OK,Jon W, you left yourself wide open for this. How come, if conservatives are so all fired up about keeping government out of our lives, is our majority Republican legislature in Colorado about to force the Ten Commandments to be placed in each classroom in the state? They have no idea where the money is to come from to pay for this! I think it is their feeble attempt to deal with the Columbine High School Tragedy, while they refuse to require background checks at supposedly amateur gun shows. They are about to send to our Republican governor a plan to test all our schools, by their criteria, and if they fail according to their standards, they will be forced to become "Charter Schools".The districts with the most money will pass, and the poorer ones, (and there are many), will lose. This idea has been defeated by the electorate, so they have found a legislative solution. Again, they have no idea how this new layer of government is to be funded, except from my tax dollars. So what's this again about keeping government small and out of our lives? I agree in principle, but at least, In Colorado, they are talking the talk, but not walking the walk. BlueJay |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: kendall Date: 14 Apr 00 - 03:31 PM Just what is being taken from you by the liberals? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: Jon W. Date: 14 Apr 00 - 04:37 PM Kendall: tax dollars to support things I believe are destructive to the family and country. BlueJay: lots of Republicans say they are conservative but they aren't. There often isn't a dime's difference between Republicans and Democrats. And when there is a difference, it's often not the direction they want to go--it's just the speed they want to travel. I think in general my philosophy can be summed up: There's lots of things society can and should do. There are a few things government should and must do. I don't believe that society and government ought to be the same thing, but nowadays (i.e. for the last 70 years or so) government is taking over every function of society that it possibly can, and they hadn't oughtta do it! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: Jon W. Date: 14 Apr 00 - 04:45 PM PS BlueJay, are they really requiring the 10 commandments to be posted in every class room? That's just as bad as prohibiting them. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: JedMarum Date: 15 Apr 00 - 01:24 PM you know, I suspect conservatives like all kinds of folk songs ... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Songs for Conservatives From: GUEST,TheOldMole Date: 15 Apr 00 - 03:19 PM (Not really a guest, but I seem to have been lost in the shuffle). Margo - Okie from Muskogee and The Fightin' Side of Me are the best known ones. There's a very nice song from a later Haggard album called "Me and Crippled Soldiers." |
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