Hooray: it's gassing and shooting

Subject: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 02:08 PM

In an unprecedented display of compassion and principle, the British parliament has voted by a majority of 190 in favour of gassing and shooting foxes. Shooting is of course surprisngly effective: indeed in the last two months one boy has been shot dead, and one man seriously injured, by people attempting too shoot foxes in the dark. This, or cyanide, is the new preferred method. Out go outmoded dogs, in come newly relevant methods. The old songs are also to be banned, replaced by modern classics like "D'ye ken John Eichmann", "Joe Gunman", " There was Cyanide, Strychnine, Warfarin was there-O" and "it's a Fine Lamping Night".
   Thank God for progress.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 02:10 PM

BS section please

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 02:13 PM

Hunting songs, very reasonable topic, don't you think?

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 03:09 PM

Songs about cock-fighting and bare-knuckle fighting never stopped being sung just because these activities got banned back in the nineteenth century.

Our urban foxes here seem to manage to rub along with the rest of the community without shooting, gassing, or hunting. Most of the time they even seem to manage to avoid being run over in the town.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 03:10 PM

Well, THIS is a song! (More like bits of one)

1. As I was a walking one morning last autumn
I approached some hunters, and I asked them
"You can't shoot a fox today, so to kill them, what's your way?"
And they replied so gaily "Oh, we gas them!"

There was Dido, Bendigo, Gentry he was there-o
Traveler he never looked behind him.
There was Countess, Rover, Bonnie Lass and Jover
These were the hounds that could find him.

3. Well the next fox being old,
And his trials fast advancing
He was confused, and stumbled into Rover
But the hounds all wore a mask
And a poisonous little flask
And Reynard inhaled once and then fell over

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Once Famous
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 03:20 PM

The fox went out on a chilly night
prayed for the moon to give him light
He had many a mile to go that night

BEFORE HE WAS EITHER SHOT OR GASSED

town-o, town-o.................

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Paul Mitchell
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 04:11 PM

Fox hunting is considered by many to be a means of controlling the number of foxes.

More foxes are killed on the roads than by fox hunting.

It is, therefore, logical that in order to more effectively control foxes we should build roads through the rural areas.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 04:12 PM

It's a whole different scene for an urban fox, at least in Harlow:

Old Daddy Fox went out one night,
Crossed the road by the old street light,
He spied a bin and he laughed with delight,
"I'm glad that I lives in the town oh..."

He opened the bin and he searched around,
And a tasty curry he quickly found,
And a half-of a chicken weighed a couple of pouns,
"Oh this is a mighty fine town oh..."

Old Mother Flipper Flopper got out of bed,
And out of the window she stuck her head,
Crying "John, John, there's that fox to be fed,
The fox who lives in the town oh."

So John came down and he opened up a tin,
And he gave the fox the meat that was within,
Saying "We can't have our Foxie a-getting too thin -
He's the best fox in this town oh."

Daddy Fox went home to his cubs and his wife,
With a bag of food, and they didn't need no knife,
And they never had such a supper in their life,
And they said "It's a mighty fine town-oh".

Oh the Fox he lives in his foxy den
Along with the little ones nine or ten,
"Oh we're never going to go back to the country again,
We're much better living in the town oh."

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: ThreeSheds
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 08:54 PM

There was an interesting comment read out on the bbc news about the pro hunting protesters in parliament today to the effect that the dogs should have been set on them. As for the polices reported heavy handed action I thought they were simply carrying out actions to improve the breed through the thrill of the chase. But what really pisses me off is the number of people who think this is the prime issue of the moment. As far as I'm concerned hunting is like porn on the internet I know its there its claimed to fulfil a need but I dont want to take part

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 03:12 AM

What will this Nanny state ban next? Shooting? Fishing? Titter ye not, if this bunch stay in power much longer they will have us all wearing mittens.
               El ted, pro hunting.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 11:40 AM

I do hope they don't gas any badgers by mistake!!
Giok

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: sledge
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 12:57 AM

I fail to see why shooting on a selective basis by trained gamekeepers can be less efficient than a bunch of bloodthirsty twats on horses chasing a terrified animal for an hour or so and then having it torn apart by dogs.

When many of these hunters are interviewed they often state that they get a great deal of enjoyment from just being able to ride out, so what, does getting on a horse mean you can't get off until you've killed or tried to kill something.

As for being animal lovers, according to the RSPCA, hunts destroy around 3000 healthy dogs a year, I'd hate to see how they behaved if they hated animals.

Sledge

Subject: Lyr Add - The Town Fox
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 05:02 AM

Here's that Town Fox song again, settled in a bit more with a few different lines:

Old Daddy Fox went out one night,
Over the road to a town so bright,
He spied a bin and he laughed with delight,
"I'm glad that I came to this town oh, town oh,
He spied a bin and he laughed with delight,
"I'm glad that I came to this town oh.

He opened the bin and he searched around,
And a tasty curry he quickly found,
And a half-of a chicken weighed a couple of pounds,
"Oh this is a mighty fine town oh..."

Old Mother Flipper Flopper climbed out of bed,
And out of the window she stuck her head,
Crying "John, John, there's a fox to be fed,
The fox who's come to the town oh."

So John came down and he opened up a tin,
And he gave him the meat that was within,
Saying "We can't have our Foxie a-getting too thin -
He's the best fox in this town oh."

Daddy fox went home with a bag full of grub,
"Therell be some for the wife, there'll be some for the cub,
Then I think I'll go out for a stroll down the pub –
Yes, for sure it's a mighty fine town oh."

Old Daddy Fox and his cubs and his wife,
Ate up that food without any strife,
And they never had such a supper in their life,
And the little ones chewed on the bones oh.

Now Old Daddy Fox he lives in his den
It's under the holly bush back of number ten,
"Oh we're never going to go back to the country again,
It's a far better life in the town oh."

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 05:03 AM

OK so it's an old one ' the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable '
[ Wilde ]


eric

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 06:07 AM

They're after Tony Blair now, so it still applies.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 06:19 AM

I'd be with Sledge in assuming that shooting was a moderately efficient way to keep foxes down, if it wasnt for the two people shot with rifles in the last two months in England, one of them dead: and both having been mistaken for a fox!

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: sledge
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 06:53 AM

How about ensuring that whoever has the liscense to shoot also has a high standard of eyesight. I can only assume that anyone who confuses a person with a fox is an idiot, incompetant or in some other way unfit to own a firearm.

Sledge

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:44 AM

I'm not clear why there should be any particular need to cull foxes anyway - even free-range hens and so forth normally go indoors at night. Perhaps it's to do with protecting gamebirds, so that the hunting fraternity can shoot them.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:48 AM

Wrong! I lived on a farm for many years, and when a fox gets in at night it will go into hen houses and kill everything in sight.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:55 AM

Well he would, wouldn't he, he's a fox, and they are hens.

But how does the fox get into the henhouse? I know foxes are clever, but I don't think there's ever been a fox could open a padlock or even turn a doorknob. "Constructive negligence" I think is the legal term for that kind of thing.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:58 AM

It was a brave - if doomed attempt to stop this thread from being shoved in the BS section.

I thought for a moment that the gassing and shooting was the punishment being suggested for those who invaded the floor of the House? It will be interesting to see what sentences, (assuming of course that they will even be convicted) the judges will impose upon these fine young and upstanding members of our society?

If they were unemployed and dreadlocked road protestors - I suspect the full weight of the law would descend upon them and gassing and shooting would be thought by some – to be far too good for them.

Not too sure if many of us here have killed animals for food on a regular basis. I have and it was with horror that I witnessed that for some reason - possibly boredom - the games that some of my co-workers needed to invent and indulge in whilst killing. To me it was a question of doing what was needed in the best way possible, for others - taking lives - was something else.

The hunting game can still continue, dogs, horses, red coats and all - the fact that people argue that it will not be same without a killing at the end of it - concerns me. That everyone in the countryside is painted as holding this view also concens me.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 08:06 AM

McGrath,
       Think "ventilation!" As for the phrase "constructive negligence" that sums up townies attitude to me. End of contribution to this thread!

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: GUEST,Martian Gibbon
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 08:21 AM

AT LAST, it's about time they gassed or shot those idiots in red jackets. Idiots on horse back chasing foxes to the kill. Foxes ripped to pieces by the dogs.

Please think of it this way - someone today has invented a new game its called "fox hunting" would it happen? I personally don't think so.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 08:49 AM

If you have a shed with livestock inside it, you know that a fox might want to get in and kill them, so you make the shed fox-proof, and you make sure the ventilation doesn't provide a way in. Not particularly difficult, whether you're a farmer with a henhouse or a townie with a shed for pigeons.

If a fox gets in, it means it wasn't done properly. That's what "constructive negligence means". Can't blame the fox for that.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 09:42 AM

' Lamping ' is just as bad as fox hunting with hounds, it is a sport which is done for fun, which is why one boy is dead and a man seruiously injured.
If foxes are considered vermin, why is there a close season ?

eric

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 11:18 AM

Lamping is done for fun, by cowboys. It is dangerous and cruel. However, our principled moral legislators have just decided,by a majority of 190. that it is a Good Thing. As is cyanide gassing. And these honourable MPs, and their supporters, are somehow seen as occupying the moral high ground . Well, not by me they aren't.
"When the fire's on the hearth
And good cheer abounds
We'll drink to Joe Bowman
And his Ullswater hounds".

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 11:25 AM

Lamping

Hunting for foxes and rabbits at night with the aid of powerful spotlights and lurchers is another legal pursuit, so long as it is carried out with the landowner's permission. However, illegal lamping also takes place, and some lampers take badgers. While hunting with dogs remains legal, these persecutors of badgers will always have a cover for their activities.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 11:36 AM

The concept that hunting foxes with hounds has or can have any effect on fox populations has never been one with any supporting evidence.

That there is any need for artificial controls on fox populations by any method - is also equally short of evidence.

I think the view of Parliament, is that certain portions of our human population do have a need to inflict violence. However, and especially after the recent bloody confrontations, they may yet have a re-think and decide that it is best that these folk are allowed to be let loose on foxes and badgers - than on Commons stewards, London policemen and MPs.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 11:42 AM

One minor point (pun intended) the red coated brigade are some of the same people who lambasted the actions of minors during their struggle to retain jobs.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 11:47 AM

opps - sorry miner not minor (that would be a whole new thread)

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Once Famous
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 04:28 PM

Hey Guest Martian Gibbon

Go stick your head up your pink protruding ass.

Otherwise, I agree with you. The fox hunters are douche bags.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 06:49 PM

So, let me get this argument right: some hunters criticised some miners, so all miners should not be allowed to hunt. I dont quite see the logical train there.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:11 PM

This issue has never had very much to do with logic.......Or trains.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:15 PM

Unlike "The Wreck of the Old 97"

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:20 PM

LOOK! Will you lot just give-up?

- This thread has been dumped in the BS and the addition of any more songs or clever references to song titles will not get it back up again with the music stuff.

Do you ken - John Peel?

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:25 PM

Fishing is rubbish, i went fishing with my cousin one day, we sat for 4 hours near the river, i was bored shitless, "don't play loud music, you'll scare the fish, blar, blar, blar"
we was there all day, caught only one fish, i was going to kill it and eat it, but my cousin said its not an eating fish, so we have to put it back!
bloody total waste of time, good job i was not hungry, i said if you cant eat the fish, wahts the point coming all this way, and sitting quietly for 4 hours then???
he says "its relaxing"!
relaxing my arse, big waste of time, lot easier to go to fish shop, don't waste your time sitting near the river, [and have to buy loads of eqwipment as well, [fishing sticks etc].
i never went fishing no more after that, its boring.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:27 PM

anyway=i reckon hull river is full of chemiculs and shit, so i bet the fish would be poisunus anyway.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:32 PM

Anmyway=if fish are scared of radio music, they must be stupid.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:38 PM

Gollum!

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 04:12 AM

Hey jOhn, the last time I fished I caught a 21lb salmon, pretty soon got sick to death of eating it.

eric

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 06:12 AM

Hey Guest Martian Gibbon

I'd like to stick my head up your pink protruding ass.

Otherwise, I agree with you. The fox hunters are pricks.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 01:21 AM

i got some samon from tescos a few weeks ago, it was full of bones, rubbish.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 06:21 AM

serves you right for messing with tory shop keepers sir jOhn - sainsburys for me every time.

I think we have to mark the card of our American friends here.

This is really nothing to do with anti-hunting per se. Over in England this is class warfare.

Okay there are some people who dislike hunting because it it is a bloody disgraceful thing to chase the fox in that way. If you've ever been to a bull fight and you see that frozen second as the bull enters the ring , hears the crowd and the poor creature thinks what the Fuck is going on here and it pees itself in terror. Its feels horrible for most people, the idea of planning to do that to a sentient creature.

However over in England . this issue is class warfare. The nobs(the rich folk - maybe not all rich but most of them) ride to hounds.

This is payback time for a lot of people. For 18 years we had a right wing government who closed down a lot of the industry in the poor parts of England, and then got up on soapboxes and insulted the people who were out of work. Eighteen years with no sign of deliverance, and these rich guys were the ones voting for this.

Now the riders to hounds have NO idea. None whatsoever of how deeply they are hated.

A few years ago I went one afternoon to a gig out in the country to see a favourite folksinger, and I took a couple of friends who had been miners of course who had lost their jobs.

When we got there the room was full of people in their pinks (as they call their red hunting jackets). The violence of the reaction in my friends took my breath away. They were quite simply ready to kill. One of them declared himself feeling physically sick. We left.

For many people this is a well aimed kick in the goolies to an entire class. Hunt supporters are indeed deluding themselves. There was a feeling that if the recent invaders of the House of commons had been muslim youths rather than hooray henrys, they wouldn't be back on their estates mouthing off to the BBC the next day - they would be detained under the prevention of terrorist act.

I think if they keep on chancing their arm they will get it bitten off eventually.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 06:48 AM

Thak God for an end to fox hunting. I would agree that at times there may be a need to control the fox population and I don't think any method of killing an animal is nice (even though I do eat meat).

What I hate above all is a social group going out under the pretence of doing good for the coutryside to exert curelty to animals. I wonder what thrill the bastards get out of it.

The last time I overheard a conversation regarding hunting was quite enlightning (and Pip will witness this). It was not a country person at all but someone from London. One of her reasons was she enjoyed a better class of company and could not accept the alternative of drag hunting as her high brow freinds did not do that.

I think there are perhaps worries for the countyside with the ban but I don't see why alternative events could not be considered. I've only rode a horse a couple of times but what a delight it must be for a child, say one from a town getting out. Drag hunting works, etc. there are plenty of oppertunities to create even a greater industry without involving cruelty to animals. That it's not thought of, illustrates to be the desire for blood and that it's not about anything constructive.

I think the best one recently was the invasion of the House Of Commons. A clear indication of the thugs that enjoy fox hunting.

Jon

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 11:10 AM

Is it only here in the UK that fox hunting exists as we know it...or are there other countries that indulge?

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 11:21 AM

Guest, I think you will find we have a specialy satinic breed of foxes in the uk - at least if the pro hunters are to be believed.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 11:27 AM

Here's a BBC piece about that very thing - Fox hunting worldwide

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 11:38 AM

Cheers McGrath. It is clearly more widespread than I had realised.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: GUEST,milk monitor
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 11:44 AM

Thanks....the above was me, forgot to sign in. Interesting link McG. USA apparently doesn't hunt to kill the fox, at least they don't send terriers down the holes to finish them off.

And it is outlawed in Switzerland and Germany completely. Good for them. So not only do they make the best chocolate and get their trains to run on time, they also have animal welfare at heart.

Subject: RE: Hooray: it's gassing and shooting
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 05:33 PM

Hunting may or may not be a satisfactory way of controlling the fox population (the fox population may or may not even need to be controlled for that matter) - but 'sport' it definitely ain't. It's a vile exhibition of man's basest instinct, blood-lust. However much the participants lie about their reasons for taking part (the enjoyment of riding out and other such bullshite), and no matter how they try to disguise the foulness of their pastime by the wearing of their ridiculous fancy-dress and childish horn-blowing, that one simple fact cannot be denied by anyone with half a brain-cell.

And before anyone asks, I live in a rural community.