Banda Celtamericana in UK

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 06:36 PM

You know, where I come, from words like "bullshit," "crap," and calling another person names like "arrogant" and "dimwit" are what are referred to as "fighting words" - words that are intended to provoke anger and combat from one's opponent.

I think it's time for that stuff to stop. Chill out.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 10:02 PM

Bite me, Joe. Read the posts and you will see that these terms are appropriate.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: GUEST,Big Mick
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 10:04 PM

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: GUEST,Big Mick
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 10:04 PM

That post is from me on a hotel computer.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: Sooz
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 02:35 AM

I'd just like to sell a few tickets for the concert!

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: GUEST,Ernesto Calderon
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 05:47 AM

Hello to everyone,

I must start saying that i`m the accordion player of Banda Celtamericana. We`ve just arrived to the Uk yesterday after a long trip of more than 40 hours and 4 planes (we got one flight cancelled, phew). Fortunately, everything is OK now and we`re very happy of being here, with such beautiful landscapes (we`re staying at Sowerby Bridge), and we just played in the Worden Arts Centre (with Kimbers Man), and at least the people there liked our music very much!

I found this forum just by luck, but it has been REALLY good for us to read what you say about our music. I personally think that everyone may be right with some points, and I hope I can explain myself well so you can also get my humble opinion.

First of all, I must say that the band was born just as a "joke"... 5 years ago we had a "Tolkien Meeting" in our main city, Valparaiso, and people from all over Chile came to gather and celebrate JRR TOLKIEN`s work. There were a small group in the organisation who where music students (me included) and we decided to give them a surprise and we prepared some irish tunes to have a little more "ambience" on the party. Since there`s a lot of Tolkien fans in Chile and not very much irish-style bands there (well... about 10 now), we had a great success, since it was new music for most of the people (and still is) and things started to go better, we were invited to play in many places and we decided to go on with the band. After some time we recorded a CD (Puerto Celta) and did a tour around Chile, both with the support of the chilean government.

At that time we were called "Puerto Celta" too, and we played mostly irish music. Why? because we liked it! But at that point we already started to use latin american instruments on it: charango, cajon peruano, zamponia, percussions, quena, etc. and then we changed our name to Banda Celtamericana (it explains by itself), because we started to add more and more latin american elements to our music, because we felt so. It`s part of what we are, as a chilean people, and we didn`t want to stop played folk music but just decided to play it in our own very personal way.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: GUEST,Ernesto Calderon
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 05:49 AM

Ok, that`s all I have to say about the band`s history (I hope you have enough patience to keep reading, if you hadn`t stop yet...). As for the comments, well, what can I say... I should thank some people for supporting us without even knowing us. As for Diane`s comments I would like to say ther the following:

1.- We like Flook, and we like the way they sound. It`s ok for us if you (and many more people) thinks we sound as them, as long it`s not maybe more than for a couple of tunes. They are a great inspiration for us, and we are going to have the chance to ask them what do they think about our work, because we`re going to play as special guests of them in the Fiddlers Green Festival in Rostrevor, Northern Ireland. You can check it on www.flook.co.uk , in their "tour dates" section.

2.- Our ages are between 21 and 30. That means that none of us were alive by the `73, and most of us were just childs or not even born when the "Junta Militar" made all those awful things. We`re a new generation, indeed we`ve not forgotten what they did and we feel very very close to the "Nueva cancion chilena" movement. I really apretiate your work with exiled chileans. Because of people like you many chileans found a new home in times that it was really difficult for them.

3.- I completely agree with you when you say that "that it would be of infinitely greater value for audiences on an overseas tour to hear the band's indigenous music rather than that which is all around them, polluting and diluting those still-extant traditions" (except for the words "polluting" and "diluting", it think we could find better words for our work). If you have the chance to go to our concert you will indeed hear some musical elements of some latin american cultures like the Mapuches, who are the chilean indios who lives in southern chile and fought against the spanish conquerers hundreds of years ago (now the fight against the chilean government but that`s another story). We are also opening our show with the "Danzas de Bailaviejo" set, which are dances from small villages in Mexico, that we specially arranged by listening original recordings made many years ago about them.

4.- Our new cd is based on the work of Gabriela Mistral, a chilean female poet (who won the Nobel Prize), and we use many of her poems in which she talks about the importance of our own heritage and the indigenous cultures. We combine elements of such cultures with the music we were already doing, now for 5 years.

5.- Finally, I must tell you that we`re doing workshops in 10 primary schools here in Yorkshire and we`re teaching songs from Violeta Parra and Victor Jara, as well as other chilean music. You would have been very impressed on how fast the kids from the Scout Road Junior School learnt yesterday the song "Que pena siente el alma" by Violeta Parra. We did teach them the guitar chords and the lyric so we hope they will someday want to know a little more about this great woman called Violeta. And the people who`s going to our concerts WILL have the chance to hear chilean Folk Music... you can count on it.


If anyone wants to contact us please don`t hesitate in writing us at [e-mail]

It would be great also if you could talk more about music than politics, but are free to do what you want, so keep writing if you want to say something to us that you may want others to know.


See ya,

Ernesto
Banda Celtamericana


PD. By the way, we use the word "celtic" (we know it has a "commercial" origin) because that`s how the irish music is known in Chile and South America, and we also play music from another places which also have a "celtic heritage" such as Scotland, Galicia, Asturias and Bretagne. You can visit www.americacelta.com and check how many "celtic" bands are in S.A.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: GUEST,Sooz(hard at work)
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 05:58 AM

Looking forward to meeting you next Thursday Ernesto.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 06:43 AM

Ernesto
I think Dianne's comments on this thread are disgusting and may I say, does not reflect the views of most mudcatters.
It is very kind of you to come on Mudcat and put your point of view and I wish you all a huge success whilst you are over here.
Diane makes me feel ashamed to be a mudcatter.
Sincerely
Les Worrall

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 07:26 AM

Ernesto, thank you very much for taking the time to write to us and for sharing so much. It is greatly appreciated. It sounds as though you are having a great time and doing good work with your music.

I have to echo Villan's comments. It would have been better if this thread had not been turned into a grandstand for a very divisive person.

Thank you, again, and have fun and a safe trip home.

All the best,

kat

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 08:03 AM

How extraordinary that the villainous villain thinks it 'disgusting' to honour and respect one's own cultural heritage and not be subsumed by corporate commercialism and globalised cultural vandalism.

And how heartening to hear a young Chilean musician declaring that he has no intention of being conned down such a 'route' nor of abandoning his cultural 'roots'. So those hoping for a green beer and seaweed crisps, wall-to-wall jigs, reels and out-of-time bodhrán hooley will be disappointed. Good.

The term 'celtic' is nowadays as outdated and discredited as the term 'f*lk' itself. It's way past its sell-by and of no use whatsoever and constitutes, in fact, an insult to musicians portraying the actual culture of supposedly Celtic regions. It really ought to be binned forthwith and forgotten.

Ernesto says audiences on the tour will be listening to Chilean trad music. I am delighted that they will be. As Dave said higher up, there are more than enough fake Oirish bands here already without importing yet another.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 08:36 AM

. . . forgot to clarify: 'polluting and diluting' referred to the seemingly all-pervasive, fake-Oirish, celticky, new-agey crap already dumbing down the tradition. Not this band's music which I haven't heard apart from a snatch (of an Irish tune) on YouTube.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 07:23 PM

And on and on and on she goes,
Where she stops, nobody knows.
You have no 'honour and respect' on mudcat for anyone but yourself and your own opinions Diane Easby.
You have proved yourself to be a flamer, a troll, a sexist, degrading, know it all, who has become the source of ridicule in our backwoods area. Why don't you take your opinions to the people who may think they need them instead of inflicting them on beings who carry themselves with far more dignity and common sense than I have ever seen from you on here.
Even your abusive language smacks of the childrens playground. Just go away and let decent people get on with their lives.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: GUEST,Ernesto (again)
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 07:33 PM

Thanks to everyone for their comments. We`ve just finished to play in Oltley and it was great, full of people who really enjoyed the concert, and also chilean people who danced with us.

Please stop talking so bad about Diane. I know she didn`t want to be rude with us, instead telling us her opinion about what chilean bands could do...

By the way, if you want to hear music from our latest cd, you can go to www.myspace.com/bandaceltamericana . There is plenty of chilean music that we play and it`s not there so don`t panic!

Cheers,

Ernesto
Banda Celtamericana

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 02:39 AM

Oh dear.
Chronic literacy deficit still rife out there in Much-Whining-By-The-Slurry-Pit.
A musician from the band in question is perfectly aware of the importance of his music reflecting a sense of place and being rooted in his own community.
Not so among certain swathes of unaware English punters who regard noise at their 'f*lk club' as a soundtrack to getting pissed and harassing women.
It's why they tolerate, even enjoy, globalised McMusak and dumbed down, plasticised Oirish shit.
If Banda Celtamericana is unfortunate enough to encounter persons of such meagre intellect and musical appreciation on their current tour, they should be aware that the English as a nation have scant regard for their own cultural heritage and use this lack as an excuse for disregarding the importance of that of anyone else.
It's when they attempt to inflict their 'good-enough-for-f*lk' mantra on those concerned with musical excellence that their obnoxiouness gets tedious.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 04:46 AM

I am certain Guest Ernesto and friends are euphoric at the thought of not meeting you.
To all members of the band Celtamericana. I look forward to hearing and seeing you on Thusrday night at Castle Hills....we are not all as narrow minded as the above 'self styled' critic.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 05:24 AM

The dichotomy here is, of course, between those who define narrow/broad as a reflection of their own prejudices and those who take an overall world view.

'Broad' to the former appears to mean a mish-mash of mediocrity and dumbed-down MOR trash without regard for roots or relevance because they're not really listening anyway, just out for what they describe as 'a good time'

To the latter, it represents due consideration for and appreciation of the history and background, musical and political, which in the case of Chile are obviously inextricably entwined.

A 'self-styled critic' just wouldn't have got the gigs to make a living as a political and music journalist. Clearly, some of the above posters haven't read (or assimilated) any of my or anyone else's stuff that's out there. Until they do they're on shaky ground to take the view that I know not of that which I speak.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 05:51 AM

A tad OT, but on BBC R4 right now there's a piece about music journalism.

This was was preceded by Sandi Toksvig's holiday prog about festivals, featuring the Rainforest World Music Festival currently in progess in Borneo and Festival In The Desert with clips of Malian Tuareg, all without mindless ridicule, as has in the past been R4's Saturday a.m. wont.

To the replayer then, all ye who think of trad as inane 'entertainment' divorced from real life and expect touring bands to pander to their (lack of) taste.

And to Banda Celtamericana, don't be intimidated. Play the real thing and educate the masses.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 06:25 AM

An interesting thread.

I believe we all have the right to at least try be the sort of musician and songwriter that we want to be. Much of it is determined by the music we grow up with, or what we make a conscious effort to surround ourselves with, because for some unaccountable reason we emotionally identify with it.

That old cliche of 'the global village'has never been more true.

I was quite disappointed when I first heard Guy Clark - Jack Hudson of Derbyshire sings his songs so much better than he does. With Jack there is a unique shaft of melancholy in his interpretation, which is pure 'Derbyshire' - like a twist of lemon in a cocktail.

I've heard several Irish people refer to Patrick Walker of Sheffield as 'the best Irish fiddler, outside of Ireland' - despite Patrick being a Sheffield lad. And who would have thought the world's greatest jazz guitarist would turn out to be a Belgian gypsy.

Best of luck to you Sooz in promoting this concert. Bottom line, its about some people who are making a creative effort, and in the long run - that's the best thing for all of us, and the world.

Diane is right, in that we DO need to be aware of where we are coming from. But I think with artists of talent - this emerges whether they want it to, or not.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 06:38 AM

Diane..you say..>>>>>>>>>>A 'self-styled critic' just wouldn't have got the gigs to make a living as a political and music journalist. Clearly, some of the above posters haven't read (or assimilated) any of my or anyone else's stuff that's out there. Until they do they're on shaky ground to take the view that I know not of that which I speak<<<<<<<<<.
You not only wrongly made a totally wrong suggestion that I am some sort of pervert..so much so that a few of my good friends suggested I take a libel action against you as the literature you are so obviously proud of was libellous to say the least. You also suggested that people who live in and attend clubs in our area are a lot of backwoodsmen who fawn over women at gigs and have little appreciation of real music. You have made numerous personal remarks about other people on the cat who you have no real knowledge of. Everyone can see that you consider yourself to be some sort of authority on everything and everyone you write about and will not accept reasonable opinions from others.
How come it is you who is saying Others are an shaky ground to take the view that you know not of that which you speak?.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: GUEST,sparticus
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 07:13 AM

Calm down Georgina. Once it gets personal you've lost the argument.
Oh, and don't complain about the spelling of your name,it was intentional, as in your recent spelling of mine.

Ernesto

Good on you for coming here and putting your side of the story. Every success on the tour to you and your friends. Might catch you at Fiddlers Green in Rostreavor.

Diane

I love the way you fight your corner. Don't always agree but that's the way the world goes round.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 07:28 AM

This may seem very trivial compared with the weighty matters being discussed; on the other hand, it does concern cultural identity and the perception of the British Isles from a distance.

First, thank you Ernesto for your calm and sensible presentation of your position. A few people on this list could take a lesson from you.

One thing puzzles me though. You say Since there`s a lot of Tolkien fans in Chile and not very much irish-style bands there which is a curious connection. Tolkien's work is deeply rooted in Anglo-Saxon and Germanic mythology. The Shire is Southern England, specifically Oxfordshire. I wondered if Celtic music had been used for the films (which I haven't seen) but not according to Wikipedia. I have found samples of the soundtrack here (scroll down) and it sounds like early English light classical to me.

I'm just curious to know why you felt that Irish music was appropriate for a "Tolkien Meeting". Could luck with your tour. I'm sure you'll find many appreciative people.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 07:32 AM

"You also suggested that people who live in and attend clubs in our area are a lot of backwoodsmen who fawn over women at gigs and have little appreciation of real music."

Speak for yourself - personally I am working on my 'fawning' technique. My method of 'ogling' isn't as intrusive as I would like. And the 'lecherous smirk', I have nearly perfected could still do with tightening up a notch.

Oscar Wilde had trouble 'living up to his blue china', I still don't feel that I really inhabit my grubby mac with the panache of a true pervert.

Little appreciation of music, but 'I've got rhythm'.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 07:35 AM

I am quite calm Guest Sparticass, losing arguments with losers is never an option. By the way the mis-spelling of the name was intentional.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 07:43 AM

"Tolkien's work is deeply rooted in Anglo-Saxon and Germanic mythology. The Shire is Southern England, specifically Oxfordshire. I wondered if Celtic music had been used for the films (which I haven't seen) but not according to Wikipedia. I have found samples of the soundtrack here (scroll down) and it sounds like early English light classical to me.

I'm just curious to know why you felt that Irish music was appropriate for a "Tolkien Meeting"."

Surely not that much of a stretch. Wagner uses Celtic heroes in his opera does he not, and Joyce used references to Dublin's Viking past in Ulysses.

Really they should have got Bono and Christy Moore to do the soundtrack.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: GUEST,sparticus
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 08:01 AM

Georginalivers

I'll see your intentional mis-spelling and raise you another.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 08:11 AM

I'm intrigued by the interpretation of the Shire as Oxfordshire. Tolkien grew up in the West Midlands, and the area around Sarehole Mill near Birmingham is, I thought, understood to have inspired much of the Middle Earth landscape. There's a folly in Edgebaston that's supposed to have inspired the Two Towers.

Not that I am remotely interested in Tolkein as a writer, but I am a pedant. And I also thought that Ernesto and his mates might like to visit some of the relevant locations while they're in England, as they obviously are into Tolkein's work.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 08:51 AM

Ruth Archer

Tolkien grew up in the West Midlands, and the area around Sarehole Mill near Birmingham is, I thought, understood to have inspired much of the Middle Earth landscape.

Hmmmm, if you say so, but still not very Irish.

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 09:42 AM

No. But that's not the point I was trying to make.

Ernesto, have a look at the following links. There are several sites accessable by public transport, which are thought to have inspired the Lord of the Rings. Maybe you could plan a visit while you're in the UK!

http://www.bplphoto.co.uk/TolkiensBirmingham/

http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/tolkien.bcc

http://www.virtualbrum.co.uk/tolkien_trail_start.htm

"The most exciting thing for a young boy to see in the village of Sarehole was Sarehole Mill, which he refers to as 'the great mill' in The Hobbit . It stands on the River Cole, which rises near King's Norton and runs close by. It is said that Tolkien based the bad-tempered miller in The Lord of the Rings on the miller there, who perhaps understandably shouted at him and his younger brother when they were playing in the mill yard."

"Though only four miles from the centre of Birmingham Sarehole was then in the north Worcestershire countryside. Coming from the hot dry veld of South Africa, the green fields and woods made a deep impression on him. Tolkien said that Sarehole was the model for the Shire, home of Bilbo in The Hobbit."

"Many ideas originating from Tolkien's time in Birmingham surfaced in The Lord of the Rings, including the name Sam Gamgee who in the book was Frodo's faithful friend. Dr Joseph Sampson Gamgee was a Birmingham surgeon who invented a kind of cotton wool, known as the "Gamgee tissue". He also created a charity called The Birmingham Hospital Saturday Fund. His widow still lived in Stirling Road when the Tolkien brothers lodged there. A blue plaque on the Repertory Theatre in Centenary Square commemorates his former home on the site. "

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 10:06 AM

Birmingham, not very Irish.........

Digbeth, The Coventry rd,.......

On a forum where half the Eastern seaboard of the USA are claiming to pure shamrocks grow on their underpants, that's pretty rich!

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 10:13 AM

Hi Ernesto,

Great to see you in this thread! :0) Welcome to the UK and to the battling English Folkies..Don't worry about Diane, she's been raging at everyone for years and years...We love her really! ;0)

Glad to hear you all enjoyed Otley, isn't it a lovely place, and the people there are so friendly.

You may like this site too, if you get any chance to read it that is....Anyway, enjoy the rest of your tour and again, lovely to see you in here...

From Sarehole To The Shire


Take care

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 10:22 AM

OK! OK! I concede on all points. The Shire is based on rural Worcestershire which is a Celtic nation so Ernesto's choice of Irish music to celebrate Tolkien is entirely appropriate.

I think I'll go and lie down for a while.