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BS: Allotments
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Subject: BS: Allotments From: Steve Benbows protege Date: 28 Aug 03 - 01:52 PM Hi guys, My girlfriend and I are planning to take on an allotment. Do any of you have your own? What advice could you give to newcommers? Also what should we be doing/ planting this time of year once we have taken it on? Any help will be most gratefully recieved. Pete and Charlotte. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Allan C. Date: 28 Aug 03 - 02:13 PM There's that damned English language thing again! Can someone please explain what is meant by "allotment"? In the United States armed services, it was what you called the money that was automatically sent to a spouse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Aug 03 - 02:22 PM In Indian Country in the U.S. it also means the amount of land each tribal individual was given before the rest of the reservation was taken away and given to white folks to settle (breaking treaties). There are understandably negative connotations to the word. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Amos Date: 28 Aug 03 - 02:28 PM Beats me!! :>) Sounds like it means an allotted parcel of gardening space. ] 1. The act of allotting: initiated the allotment of ration coupons. 2. Something allotted: had already used up their weekly allotment of flour. 3. A portion of military pay that is regularly deducted and set aside, as for the payee's dependents or for insurance. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: sian, west wales Date: 28 Aug 03 - 02:38 PM I had an allotment (long strip of land, often rented from a Town Council or other public body, for planting of vegetables, etc.) some years ago. Good fun, but it was the Duffers' Allotments in town - as opposed to the Posh Allotments where they don't let you have a strip without being serious about vegetables and very, very , very tidy! (Not me!) Unless the allotments are close to where you live, make sure you have a shed for storing your tools. My allotment didn't even have running water, so we had an old hip-bath to catch rain water! I did a lot of companion planting and I 'rotated' crops religiously. I also listened VERY carefully to the old codgers on the surrounding plots - gets them on your side but you also get some REALLY good advice. You might want to think about heavy mulching, or putting down black plastic or something over the winter to get a head start on curbing next year's weeds! Throw in some flowering bulbs too so you can get some spring flowers. If it's easily accessed by vandals, don't plant pumpkins! Best of luck! sian |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: alanabit Date: 28 Aug 03 - 02:41 PM You are right Amos. For us Brits, it means a small patch of land, usually rented from the council, for gardeners to use. Bernie Parry's lovely song, "Man of the Earth" refers to an old steel worker who is at work in his. The word doesn't have negative connotations in our culture at all. (You'll get used to us Allan - we are all mad but we are harmless!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: jimmyt Date: 28 Aug 03 - 02:43 PM I have seen these areas when travelling in UK They are always interesting to me. Seems like an idea we could use here in our overpopulated areas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,Wyrd Sister Date: 28 Aug 03 - 03:07 PM Had one for some years now. Good advice from an old hand (which we didn't always follow) is to have some idea of which job you're going to do when you go round, otherwise the day disappears in pottering. To me that's half the reason for having one. At this time of year, leave marrows on doorsteps under cover of darkness - that way they can't ask you not to give any more! I have a beautiful bunch of dahlias and gladioli which were given me as we walked past the allotments in Whitby just before leaving - allotment holders are most generous! Finally, if you have kids don't plant things they don't like hoping it will be different when they've watched them grow - it isn't. And peas will never make it to the pot; they taste too good straight from the pod. Much luck and pleasure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST Date: 28 Aug 03 - 03:33 PM Pip rents a piece of land next to the house from a local farmer/landowner. I don't think anything or much has been planted lately - it's been more a time for harvesting and at the moment it's looking quite bare. Still, there are some runner beans, acorn and butternut squash, marrows, sweet corn, leeks and beetroot in the veg plot. Tomatoes, peppers, even a couple of aubergine elsewhere... There often seem to be a few from Mudcat talking about thier gardening experiences at the Annexe. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,MMario Date: 28 Aug 03 - 03:42 PM At this time of year, leave marrows on doorsteps under cover of darkness You realize this was the cause of the infamous 'Boston Marrow Party' when colonials angered by the injustice of King George sending all his excess marrows to the New World dressed up as cockney greengrocers and pitched the marrows into Boston Harbour. YOu wouldn't want to repeat history now, would you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Steve Benbows protege Date: 28 Aug 03 - 04:01 PM O.k sorry about the confusion with the American couterparts to start with. Some good advice indeed. Guest, wyrd sister and Sian: What is done this time of year? What can be grown? Or should it be left till spring? Help!!!!! Peter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Peg Date: 28 Aug 03 - 06:58 PM Plant bulbs this fall that will come up in the spring! (daffodils, narciussus, hyacinth, tulips, snowdrops, crocus, etc.) There are also flowers you can plant by seed in the autumn, like foxgloves. It's a bit late to plant anything else; unless you will have warm weather in October in your area, in which case try some lettuces or herbs. Go online and search for "fall planting" and such; you should find plenty of advice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Bill D Date: 28 Aug 03 - 07:14 PM I echo the sentiments about considering when you post, whether your question/comment will be understood, if you don't specify which country you mean...*grin* maybe just "UK" or "US" would help |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST Date: 28 Aug 03 - 07:44 PM Steve, Pip is looking now towards her Autumn planting. I'll try to get her to give her plans for the plot tomorrow. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Gavin Date: 28 Aug 03 - 08:04 PM Hi Pete & Charlotte At this time of year? It's mostly clearing off harvest, storing, pickling, freezing, and jam-making ----- and, in my case, cursing the bastards who trashed half my plot earlier this year!!!!!!!! And from late September through October, clearing weeds, digging, manuring, - all building up soil fertility and condition for the new season. If you're taking on a new allotment, that's what I'd spend my time on - it'll pay dividends next year. There's lots of stuff on UK allotments and veggie growing on the web - I'm biassed - this is my plot; Yahoo group; Allotments 4 All ---- with lots of links off all three. Go for it, and enjoy! All best - Gavin |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,Jon Date: 28 Aug 03 - 09:01 PM Manuring... Pip may confirm but I think ours is mostly done later - winter. It involves a trip to a place in North Walsham (about 15 mintes away). Funny little place - no sign of anyone - just an "honesty box" and plastic sacks of horse muck at about 50p per sack. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: LadyJean Date: 28 Aug 03 - 10:17 PM Here in Pittsburgh PA, Homewood Cemetery rents allotments to would be gardeners. Henry Clay Frick is in Homewood Cemetery, but it doesn't seem to have had a bad effect on the soil. Of course I'd be certain to leave before dark, if I had an allotment there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Aug 03 - 10:35 PM We're just getting our second wind down here in Texas. Start in March, and everything shuts down by mid to late July. It'll be cool enough now for a good fall garden that grows through October or later; stuff should be in the ground by now (I'm doing that this weekend--had to give my foot time to heal after bunion surgery last month--I dig with my right foot, the one that was repaired.) For a wealth of wonderful organic gardening information, visit Howard Garrett's site, http://www.dirtdoctor.com. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 29 Aug 03 - 09:35 AM Pete, If it hasn't been neglected I'd suggest planting Broad Beans in November for overwintering: helps avoid blackfly later. Next season grow runner beans one end for shelter, if you can get plenty of muck grow courgettes (we've been picking about a pound a day from 4 plants for weeks), potatoes will help break up the soil if it hasn't been worked, we grow pink firapple (good for salads as well as hot and come in shapes to make Esther Rantzen giggle), for next winter grow parsnips and leeks. (We don't have an allotment now but grow all those plus carrots, peas, french beans and some herbs in our garden).Since a tree fell on our greenhouse we've given up on tomatoes. If you are lucky you can swop surplus with other plotholders who grow something different. RtS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,Jon Date: 29 Aug 03 - 09:57 AM Pip didn't grow them this year but I'll second pink firapple. They really are tasty. Roger, any ideas over growing new potatoes for Christmas? We don't have problems with the main plantings but Pip has tried a couple of varieties supposed to crop then (I've no idea what they were) and they have just gone down with blight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Stilly River Sage Date: 29 Aug 03 - 10:24 AM What are courgettes, and what is pink firapple? My tomatoes are finished, but my eggplant (aubergine) have a second life and are blooming and fruiting now that it is past the hottest days. Swiss chard is reviving. I grow all of this in a big backyard with a creek at the bottom for water once I run the pipe for my pump. Won't put creek water on the garden, just the lawn. It's an urban creek so it gets a bit thick with water plants this time of year. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,MMario Date: 29 Aug 03 - 10:27 AM SRS - near as I can figger out 'courgettes' = 'summer squash' pink firapple is a potato variety, yes? I get jealous "listening" to UK people talk about gardening - and the variety of things available to them. and their growing seasons!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,Jon Date: 29 Aug 03 - 10:46 AM courgettes = zuchinni Pink fir apple is a breed of potato, I believe quite an old one. They are funny knobbly looking things. here is one page |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST Date: 29 Aug 03 - 10:49 AM They do look a bit like fir cones.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,Jon Date: 29 Aug 03 - 11:06 AM Oh and Mario, I guess the winters are just too cold where you are? There isn't a season here where Pip hasn't got something edible growing... Maybe your area has some advantages though and things we can't get. Doesn't New York state produce maple syrup for example? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Stilly River Sage Date: 29 Aug 03 - 11:13 AM They look like sweet potatoes--but the flesh in pink fir apples is white? Solanacea--one of those interesting plant families. Tomatoes, potatoes, deadly nightshade. A new world family, for much of what we know it for. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,MMario Date: 29 Aug 03 - 11:18 AM yup - winters too cold. hard to grow anything when the ground is frozen down 18 inches and there's a couple feet of snow on top of that.. people pick up on the maple syrup thing - but I've seen historical research that shows that birch syrup was produced in Europe for centuries - and that's just a different species; same idea. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,MMario Date: 29 Aug 03 - 11:35 AM but eggplants were Old World. So are Jimson weed and Belladonna - all of them solanacea |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Stilly River Sage Date: 29 Aug 03 - 11:45 AM I have a sacred datura (jimson weed) out in my back yard in a pot--I need to put it in the ground. Lots of seed drop below the parent plant, so I think they grow so large because the plant mass is compounded by several generations. You sure that one is Old World? I'll have to go look it up. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,MMario Date: 29 Aug 03 - 12:04 PM both hemispheres actually for Jimson Weed |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Steve Benbows protege Date: 29 Aug 03 - 12:40 PM I am glad i have started something useful here on the "cat" for a change - usually just arguments. Roger as per usual some sound advice! good to hear from you - how was Greece? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,Jon Date: 29 Aug 03 - 01:27 PM Yep, SRS, the flesh is white and it is a potato - I think a sweet potato is something quite different. The flesh of this one is quite firm and waxy rather than powdery. If you get the chance, try some - you may not get the yields you might expect with other potatoes, but you have something that little bit different and unlikely too be found on the supermarket shelf or even, in areas like this, from a farm shop. Taste is my judge, and to me these are worth it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Peg Date: 29 Aug 03 - 04:58 PM MMario aren;t you in western NY?? MY dad is in Elmira and has two flourishing garden plots! Lots of veggies. I have friends in Vermont who grow plenty of stuff, too. The Northeast may get cold winters but the summers are hot and we generaly get a good mix of rain and sun; noting to stop you from gardening if you want to... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: LadyJean Date: 30 Aug 03 - 12:25 AM I have a datura, but it doesn't care to bloom. Neither do my two brugemansia. Any advice?! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,Guest Pip Date: 30 Aug 03 - 05:28 AM Jon has mentioned my allotment on the field. I have created it to be like a 19th century potager, with narrow paths dividing the area into blocks of varying sizes. This makes life much easier as you reach the beds, harvest easier, and keep it well weeded and cared for. You can grow specific crops in each square or oblong, and rotate the crops each year. I also have one area made into a herb garden. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 30 Aug 03 - 06:45 AM Jon, I've never tried the potato at Xmas thing, I think peopel grow them in bins of soil to keep them warm?? I'm no expert, Herself does the clever stuff in the garden, I'm just allowed to do the heavy work & tend the veg. Retirement means a few moments hoeing and watering daily much less of a chore! Pete, see my Postcard from Greece thread for our June/July jaunt, off to Lesvos next Thursday for a fortnight, watch this space! RtS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Stilly River Sage Date: 30 Aug 03 - 11:26 AM My datura is from the biology department fundraiser last spring at the university where I work. I'm assuming he used native seed. He thought they were hard to start, but the seeds that have dropped off of mine do start in the same pot. It would get much larger in the ground, and while it is in the pot it needs more water because it is so hot here. These grow well in the prairie and desert (I've seen them from Texas to the Sonoran desert of Arizona) so I think they have deep roots when they're in the ground. They would then need very well-drained soil and deep watering when you water--not shallow water every day, but deep every week or so until it's established. Don't fertilize it either, or you'll just push the leaves and not the flowers. It was a fairly small plant (10" tall) when it put out it's first flower. They can and do stand direct sun, but I moved mine to get a little less than sun all day, again, since it's in the pot. I have several plants to "liberate" this fall, to plant in beds so they'll establish themselves and come back next year. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Sep 03 - 09:49 PM Our gardens probably grew a lot over the weekend and we couldn't compare notes--welcome back, Mudcat! We've had rain down here in Texas, finally. Now I hope the aubergine will take off and I'll get some fall stuff planted. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Rapparee Date: 01 Sep 03 - 11:00 PM Try a web search on particular veggies, preceeded by the word "heirloom" e.g., "heirloom potatoes." One place to visit is here, where you can buy a bunch of different potatoes. For those who don't know: buy some potatoes, eat some, but leave a few go to eyes and sprouts. In the Spring, cut these into quarters and plant them. You should be able to harvest the same variety you planted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Sep 03 - 11:22 PM I tossed a handful of canteloupe seeds into an unused planter a couple of weeks ago, and they all sprouted over the weekend. Stuff I tried from seed a few weeks ago withered, it was still so hot. Looks like I'll have to move some of these puppies to the garden patch. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,robinia@eskimo.com Date: 02 Sep 03 - 07:22 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,robinia Date: 02 Sep 03 - 07:47 AM Not used to hearing Jimson weed spoken of with such respect! In folksong ("Young Man who wouldn't hoe Corn," sung to the tune of "Leatherwing Bat") we hear: He went to the fence and there peeked in Jimson weed grew up to his chin; Jimson weed grew so high, made this young man for to cry. The song also has a nice phrase that I haven't heard anywhere else of "giving him the mitten" -- as in Does this qualify as "thread creep"? There's also a gardening moral to the song: the lazy gardener doesn't get the girl. BTW, in Seattle we call our allotments P-patches for some reason (not peas!) that I've long forgotten. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,MMario Date: 02 Sep 03 - 08:27 AM Peg - yes - we can garden...but not for the length of the season they have down south or in the UK. And then of course the horde of woodchucks (unfortunately not the singing variety) and rabbits don't help either. and the deer have discovered that my lilies are tasty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Peg Date: 02 Sep 03 - 10:24 AM ah yes, the critters who like to eat stuff...fencing is necessary. My father has taken to picking off rabbits with his pellet gun which I think is disgusting. There are a lot of rabbits in the suburbs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Sep 03 - 04:06 PM Jimson weed is a beautiful plant. I've seen it in large rounded shrub shapes in the desert and here in Texas. Perhaps it grows more weedy in other places. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Steve Benbows protege Date: 03 Sep 03 - 02:24 PM Right. I now have a plot (Piece of land!) It is covered five feet tall in grass at the front and the last ten feet of the plot is covered in six foot tall brambles. Any good ideas of the best way to get rid of all of the grass etc and get down to a growing level. Are there machines that can be hired as roots of grass will have to be removed etc. Please help the misses is losing heart rapidly. Regards. Pete. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,MMario Date: 03 Sep 03 - 02:30 PM pigs. in a pen that can be moved from area to area. they will root out the weeds, grass, etc and fertilize at the same time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: GUEST,JTT Date: 03 Sep 03 - 02:42 PM I have an allotment - 19 euro a year for a quarter-acre. At least, I've gone in on it, so I suppose my half would be 9 euro 50 cent. I've been allotting for a few weeks, but can give some tips: * Don't grow anything poisonous. I wouldn't grow datura, monkshood, delphinium or any bulb other than onions, shallotts and garlic. * Build two six-foot-by-six compost heaps side by side. * Strim the weeds, put them on the compost heap; cover the allottment in black plastic held down with bags of manure, and gradually lift up the plastic bit by bit to manure pieces. * This autumn, plant two lots of raspberries against the fences: autumn raspberries which you can eat from next year's canes, and spring raspberries, which you will eat in 2005, as they flower on the previous year's canes. * Wherever your water supply is, there plant your salads. You really don't want to haul water up to the other end of the field. * Next year, put in lots of vigorous spuds, to smother the surviving weeds. Only leave a relatively small area (near the water supply) to grow your beans, peas, salads, tomatoes, courgettes, etc. * Grow some herbs. I know it's not sensible to have them on an allotment, but really they'll keep fresh enough if you cut a load each week. And they're gorgeous. * Grow rhubarb. Even if you don't eat much, it's always a welcome present. * Grow some comfrey. The leaves, steeped in water (covered - it stinks) make a great fertiliser for watering in; the roots, simmered slowly on a double boiler in oil and then the oil strained off to be mixed with beeswax, make a great ointment for a sore back. You don't have a sore back? Come back after you've been weeding and it's got away with you. * Ask advice of the neighbouring allotment-holders, especially people from other cultures - they'll have interesting vegetables that you can swap. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Sep 03 - 04:32 PM Steve Benbows protege, Goats. They'll eat anything. It's the thing to do in many places here in the US, arrange to have some goats brought to the property for a day and watch them go to work. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Allotments From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 Sep 03 - 04:46 PM I'd assumed that keeping livestock on allotments was against the rules, but a Google.uk on "allotments + livestock" comes up with some indications that at least in some places it's OK. But I think pigs might be frowned on. I see from Google that the RSPCA has a factsheet on "The Welfare of Animals on Allotments". |
