Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)

Subject: Lyr Add: ON THE ROAD TO MANDALAY (Kipling, Speaks)
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 10:02 PM

A recent Kipling thread reminded me of this great song. For those of us who are lucky enough to have been there this song is a piece of nostalgia.

On the Road to Mandalay

Text by Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)
Set by Oley Speaks (1874-1948), published 1908.

By the old Moulmein Pagoda lookin' eastward to the sea,
There's a Burma girl a-settin' and I know she thinks of me.
For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple bells they say,
"Come you back, you British soldier, come you back to Mandalay."
Come you back to Mandalay,
Where the old Flotilla lay.
Can't you 'ear their paddles chunkin' from Rangoon to Mandalay?
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the flyin' fishes play,
And the dawn comes up like thunder out of China 'crost the bay.

'er petticoat was yaller, an 'er little cap was green,
An' 'er name was Supiyawlat, jes' the same as Theebaw's queen,
An' I seed her first a-smokin' of a whackin' white cheroot,
An' a-wastin' Christian kisses on a 'eathen idol's foot.
Bloomin' idol made o' mud,
What they called the great Gawd Budd,
Plucky lot she cared for idols when I kissed her where she stood
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the flyin' fishes play,
And the dawn comes up like thunder out of China 'crost the bay.

Ship me somewheres east of Suez where the best is like the worst,
Where there aren't no Ten Commandments, an' a man can raise a thirst,
For the temple bells are callin' and it's there that I would be,
By the old Moulmein Pagoda lookin' lazy at the sea.
Come you back to Mandalay,
Where the old Flotilla lay.
Can't you 'ear their paddles chunkin' from Rangoon to Mandalay?
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the flyin' fishes play,
And the dawn comes up like thunder out of China 'crost the bay.

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The RoadTo Mandalay
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 03:39 AM

This is one of those curious cases where the composer thinks he knows better than the author. If you look at the original poem, there are several differences between these three verses, not to mention more verses! I don't know why they do it; you can sing the proper words to the tune - a good deal of RK's poems were written to fit tunes.

Steve, foot-foot-foot-foot-sloggin' over Milton Keynes

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The RoadTo Mandalay
From: bob schwarer
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 11:07 AM

A couple of wonderful recordings of this set to music by Peter Bellamy are:

"The Road to Mandalay" CD by The Friends of Fiddler's Green (Ian Robb, Grit Laskin and others)

"Naulakha Redux" CD by John Roberts & Tony Barrand. A whole CD of Kipling material

Bob S.

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The RoadTo Mandalay
From: Marion
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 02:22 PM

Oh this thread makes me nostalgic. In college I rented a room in an old man's house, he was 95 (99 now) and a real renaissance man - a retired architecture professor who had given himself up to writing poetry, painting watercolours, and music appreciation. He didn't play an instrument, but he was my biggest fan (I played piano at the time - then I got saved and became a fiddler and guitarist) and loved to sing. He still, at 99, sings a powerful tenor in the church choir.

Anyway, singing "Mandalay" a capella is one of his specialties, he really raised the roof with it and I was fascinated - the lyrics, the melody, and his English accent and crusty demeanour made the song seem from a different world.

However, I think the best verse was left out in the post above: it began "I am sick of wasting leather..." and something about the "English weather draws the fever from my bones." and "They talks a lot of loving, but what do they understand? I've a neater, sweeter maiden, in a cleaner, greener land, on the road to Mandalay..."

Guess I'll have to hit the library and look for Kipling...

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The RoadTo Mandalay
From: bob schwarer
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 03:43 PM

Mandalay Rudyard Kipling ( 1865-1936) By the old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' eastward to the sea, There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me; For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say: "Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay!" Come you back to Mandalay, Where the old Flotilla lay: Can't you 'ear their paddles chunkin' from Rangoon to Mandalay? On the road to Mandalay, Where the flyin'-fishes play, An' the dawn comes up like thunder outer China 'crost the Bay! 'Er petticoat was yaller an' 'er little cap was green, An' 'er name was Supi-yaw-lat -- jes' the same as Theebaw's Queen, An' I seed her first a-smokin' of a whackin' white cheroot, An' a-wastin' Christian kisses on an 'eathen idol's foot: Bloomin' idol made o'mud -- Wot they called the Great Gawd Budd -- Plucky lot she cared for idols when I kissed 'er where she stud! On the road to Mandalay . . . When the mist was on the rice-fields an' the sun was droppin' slow, She'd git 'er little banjo an' she'd sing "Kulla-lo-lo!" With 'er arm upon my shoulder an' 'er cheek agin' my cheek We useter watch the steamers an' the hathis pilin' teak. Elephints a-pilin' teak In the sludgy, squdgy creek, Where the silence 'ung that 'eavy you was 'arf afraid to speak! On the road to Mandalay . . . But that's all shove be'ind me -- long ago an' fur away, An' there ain't no 'busses runnin' from the Bank to Mandalay; An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells: "If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else." No! you won't 'eed nothin' else But them spicy garlic smells, An' the sunshine an' the palm-trees an' the tinkly temple-bells; On the road to Mandalay . . . I am sick o' wastin' leather on these gritty pavin'-stones, An' the blasted Henglish drizzle wakes the fever in my bones; Tho' I walks with fifty 'ousemaids outer Chelsea to the Strand, An' they talks a lot o' lovin', but wot do they understand? Beefy face an' grubby 'and -- Law! wot do they understand? I've a neater, sweeter maiden in a cleaner, greener land! On the road to Mandalay . . . Ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst, Where there aren't no Ten Commandments an' a man can raise a thirst; For the temple-bells are callin', an' it's there that I would be -- By the old Moulmein Pagoda, looking lazy at the sea; On the road to Mandalay, Where the old Flotilla lay, With our sick beneath the awnings when we went to Mandalay! On the road to Mandalay, Where the flyin'-fishes play, An' the dawn comes up like thunder outer China 'crost the Bay! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Enjoy, Bob

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The RoadTo Mandalay
From: bob schwarer
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 03:45 PM

Had the right line breaks when I pasted it. Sorry

Subject: Lyr Add: ON THE ROAD TO MANDALAY (Rudyard Kipling)
From: bob schwarer
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 04:03 PM

MANDALAY
Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)

By the old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' eastward to the sea,
There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me;
For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say:
"Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay!"
    Come you back to Mandalay,
    Where the old Flotilla lay:
    Can't you 'ear their paddles chunkin' from Rangoon to Mandalay?
    On the road to Mandalay,
    Where the flyin'-fishes play,
    An' the dawn comes up like thunder outer China 'crost the Bay!

'Er petticoat was yaller an' 'er little cap was green,
An' 'er name was Supi-yaw-lat -- jes' the same as Theebaw's Queen,
An' I seed her first a-smokin' of a whackin' white cheroot,
An' a-wastin' Christian kisses on an 'eathen idol's foot:
    Bloomin' idol made o' mud --
    Wot they called the Great Gawd Budd --
    Plucky lot she cared for idols when I kissed 'er where she stud!
    On the road to Mandalay...

When the mist was on the rice-fields an' the sun was droppin' slow,
She'd git 'er little banjo an' she'd sing "Kulla-lo-lo!"
With 'er arm upon my shoulder an' 'er cheek agin' my cheek
We useter watch the steamers an' the hathis pilin' teak.
    Elephints a-pilin' teak
    In the sludgy, squdgy creek,
    Where the silence 'ung that 'eavy you was 'arf afraid to speak!
    On the road to Mandalay...

But that's all shove be'ind me -- long ago an' fur away,
An' there ain't no 'busses runnin' from the Bank to Mandalay;
An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells:
"If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else."
    No! you won't 'eed nothin' else
    But them spicy garlic smells,
    An' the sunshine an' the palm-trees an' the tinkly temple-bells;
    On the road to Mandalay...

I am sick o' wastin' leather on these gritty pavin'-stones,
An' the blasted Henglish drizzle wakes the fever in my bones;
Tho' I walks with fifty 'ousemaids outer Chelsea to the Strand,
An' they talks a lot o' lovin', but wot do they understand?
    Beefy face an' grubby 'and --
    Law! wot do they understand?
    I've a neater, sweeter maiden in a cleaner, greener land!
    On the road to Mandalay....

Ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst,
Where there aren't no Ten Commandments an' a man can raise a thirst;
For the temple-bells are callin', an' it's there that I would be --
By the old Moulmein Pagoda, looking lazy at the sea;
    On the road to Mandalay,
    Where the old Flotilla lay,
    With our sick beneath the awnings when we went to Mandalay!
    On the road to Mandalay,
    Where the flyin'-fishes play,
    An' the dawn comes up like thunder outer China 'crost the Bay!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Try again

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The RoadTo Mandalay
From: Marion
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 04:27 PM

Thanks Bob - great lyrics, and the line breaks make it much nicer, eh?

Cheers, Marion

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The RoadTo Mandalay
From: Dick Wisan
Date: 25 Jun 99 - 11:09 AM

If you're feeling down on sentiment, try singing "Mandalay" to the tune of "In the Evening, by the Moonlight". Do it campfire style, sloooow and sweet.

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The RoadTo Mandalay
From: Art Thieme
Date: 25 Jun 99 - 11:37 AM

I can hear Peter B. as I read those words--all of 'em. I sure do miss that opinionated son-of-a-gun...

Just picked up David Jones' fine CD on Minstrel, __On England's Shore__ from Folk Legacy. (They carry several recordings they love but aren't on their label.) HEATHER WOOD is on there along with Jerry Epstein and Bill("Ding-Dong-The-Witch-Is-Dead") Shute on guitar. My old YOUNG TRADITION LPs are simply worn out; are there any CDs of their music? Both Peter Bellamy and Heather Wood (now living in New York city) were glowing members of that trio.

Art

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The RoadTo Mandalay
From: Barbara
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 07:49 PM

Could anyone find me a link to the tune for this? Merritt's been asking my husband to sing it, and I can sort of vaguely recall part of the tune for the chorus, but....
Help!
Timeliness is important on this one.
TIA
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The RoadTo Mandalay
From: Barbara
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 08:13 PM

Hah! I found it in the Lester Levy Collection. Is this the same one Peter Bellamy does, does anyone know?
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The RoadTo Mandalay
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 09:35 PM

Bellamy set the poem to the English music-hall tune "Ten Thousand Miles Away," which fits it like a glove.

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The RoadTo Mandalay
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 10:13 PM

Looks like the Levy Collection has two settings of the ballad, one by Speaks, 1908, and one by Trevannion, 1898 (and 1908 reprint). Haven't printed them out to see if they are similar. The latter has four verses plus chorus.

Somehow I can't fit the poem to "I'm off to my love with a boxing glove ten thousand miles away."

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The RoadTo Mandalay
From: Barbara
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 11:52 PM

Interesting. The two Levy settings have the same tune and time. I didn't take the time to scan the arrangements, but the basics are the same. Dunno why there are two different composers listed.
Is the song Q is quoting above the Peter Bellamy used, or is there another Ten Thousand Miles Away?
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:32 AM

Is this another one of those Hope/Crosby/Lamour songs?//
er...forget it.
Barbara, I believe you owe me. Would you like to transcribe a MIDI of the tune from Levy?
Thank you, oh so very much. [grin]
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 03:31 AM

You may scoff Joe Offer, but I have a recording of Frank Sinatra singing this song, honest!
John

Subject: Lyr Add: CHOLERA CAMP and CELLS (Kipling)
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:17 AM

Cannot add anything to the lyrics except some background info.

Kipling always seems to capture things perfectly in his poems and songs and the more I read his work the more I admire him.

The British troops stationed in Burma were taken up (or down) the Irrawady River by paddle steamers. Rangoon to Mandalay was a 700 Km trip each way. Though a big river it is fairly shallow so even the screw driven ships of the time would have had difficulty navigating.

The Royal Navy had a number of bases in Burma as staging posts from India to the Far East Stations of Hong Kong and Wei Hai Wei. These were also coaling stations.

The British presence in the area was all part of the 'Great Game' against the Czarist influence in the area, India, Afganistan and Burma.

One of the problems with a posting to India or Burma was disease and Kipling refers to it in the words. They are laid under awnings to protect them from the sun and because in those days there was no air conditioning below decks.

More soldiers and sailors dies of disease than by action in that area at that time.

Kipling wrote an accurate piece in that was written in India.

---

CHOLERA CAMP

We've got the cholerer in camp -- it's worse than forty fights;
We're dyin' in the wilderness the same as Isrulites;
It's before us, an' be'ind us, an' we cannot get away,
An' the doctor's just reported we've ten more to-day!

    Oh, strike your camp an' go, the Bugle's callin',
       The Rains are fallin' --
    The dead are bushed an' stoned to keep 'em safe below;
    The Band's a-doin' all she knows to cheer us;
    The Chaplain's gone and prayed to Gawd to 'ear us --
       To 'ear us --
    O Lord, for it's a-killin' of us so!

Since August, when it started, it's been stickin' to our tail,
Though they've 'ad us out by marches an' they've 'ad us back by rail;
But it runs as fast as troop-trains, and we cannot get away;
An' the sick-list to the Colonel makes ten more to-day.

There ain't no fun in women nor there ain't no bite to drink;
It's much too wet for shootin', we can only march and think;
An' at evenin', down the nullahs, we can 'ear the jackals say,
"Get up, you rotten beggars, you've ten more to-day!"

'Twould make a monkey cough to see our way o' doin' things --
Lieutenants takin' companies an' captains takin' wings,
An' Lances actin' Sergeants -- eight file to obey --
For we've lots o' quick promotion on ten deaths a day!

Our Colonel's white an' twitterly -- 'e gets no sleep nor food,
But mucks about in 'orspital where nothing does no good.
'E sends us 'eaps o' comforts, all bought from 'is pay --
But there aren't much comfort 'andy on ten deaths a day.

Our Chaplain's got a banjo, an' a skinny mule 'e rides,
An' the stuff 'e says an' sings us, Lord, it makes us split our sides!
With 'is black coat-tails a-bobbin' to Ta-ra-ra Boom-der-ay!
'E's the proper kind o' padre for ten deaths a day.

An' Father Victor 'elps 'im with our Roman Catholicks --
He knows an 'eap of Irish songs an' rummy conjurin' tricks;
An' the two they works together when it comes to play or pray;
So we keep the ball a-rollin' on ten deaths a day.

We've got the cholerer in camp -- we've got it 'ot an' sweet;
It ain't no Christmas dinner, but it's 'elped an' we must eat.
We've gone beyond the funkin', 'cause we've found it doesn't pay,
An' we're rockin' round the Districk on ten deaths a day!

    Then strike your camp an' go, the Rains are fallin',
       The Bugle's callin'!
    The dead are bushed an' stoned to keep 'em safe below!
    An' them that do not like it they can lump it,
    An' them that cannot stand it they can jump it;
    We've got to die somewhere -- some way -- some'ow --
    We might as well begin to do it now!
    Then, Number One, let down the tent-pole slow,
    Knock out the pegs an' 'old the corners -- so!
    Fold in the flies, furl up the ropes, an' stow!
    Oh, strike -- oh, strike your camp an' go!
       (Gawd 'elp us!)

---

Lastly for the catters that like a tipple he had a warning;

CELLS

I've a head like a concertina: I've a tongue like a button-stick:
I've a mouth like an old potato, and I'm more than a little sick,
But I've had my fun o' the Corp'ral's Guard: I've made the cinders fly,
And I'm here in the Clink for a thundering drink
          and blacking the Corporal's eye.
    With a second-hand overcoat under my head,
    And a beautiful view of the yard,
O it's pack-drill for me and a fortnight's C.B.
    For "drunk and resisting the Guard!"
    Mad drunk and resisting the Guard --
    'Strewth, but I socked it them hard!
So it's pack-drill for me and a fortnight's C.B.
    For "drunk and resisting the Guard."

I started o' canteen porter, I finished o' canteen beer,
But a dose o' gin that a mate slipped in, it was that that brought me here.
'Twas that and an extry double Guard that rubbed my nose in the dirt;
But I fell away with the Corp'ral's stock
          and the best of the Corp'ral's shirt.

I left my cap in a public-house, my boots in the public road,
And Lord knows where, and I don't care, my belt and my tunic goed;
They'll stop my pay, they'll cut away the stripes I used to wear,
But I left my mark on the Corp'ral's face, and I think he'll keep it there!

My wife she cries on the barrack-gate, my kid in the barrack-yard,
It ain't that I mind the Ord'ly room -- it's that that cuts so hard.
I'll take my oath before them both that I will sure abstain,
But as soon as I'm in with a mate and gin, I know I'll do it again!
    With a second-hand overcoat under my head,
    And a beautiful view of the yard,
Yes, it's pack-drill for me and a fortnight's C.B.
    For "drunk and resisting the Guard!"
    Mad drunk and resisting the Guard --
    'Strewth, but I socked it them hard!
So it's pack-drill for me and a fortnight's C.B.
    For "drunk and resisting the Guard."

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:53 AM

That man could write!

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: Lighter
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:00 AM

Sing it slower, Q. "BYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY the ol' MoulMEIN PagodAAAAAA...."

Beers help.

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: Lighter
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:33 AM

And in the Sinatra version, it's a Burma "broad" that's waitin'. No kidding.

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 12:52 PM

Lighter, that would take Chicago submarines (Draw a beer and sink a jigger of whiskey in it).

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: Barbara
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:10 PM

Cockerdale sings that Cholera poem, so someone has written music for it. At least I think it's them.
And, Joe, your wish is my command. I've already transcribed it, actually, so I could hear the tune. But it's not the same one that Tony and John do, though it probably is the Hope/Crosby/Lamour version.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: Barbara
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 03:18 PM

I was wrong about the sheet music -- the version I transcribed is Henry Trevannion. Let me go look at some of the other versions.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 05:46 PM

Cockersdale do the Peter Bellamy tune for "Cholera Camp."

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: Joe_F
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:30 PM

In the text as printed in _Rudyard Kipling's Verse: Definitive Edition_ (Doubleday, 1940) the first line has "lookin' lazy at the sea" (not "eastward"), same as in the last stanza. Is that, in fact, what Kipling wrote? And if so, who changed it to "eastward", and why? There are enough geographical difficulties with this song as it was.

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:10 PM

The Kipling Society website has 'lazy.' Another site has 'eastward.'
What was it in the first edition of the book containing the poem "Mandalay"?

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 02:07 AM

Lighter is correct, I would rate the Sinatra version as the greatest murder of any song ever written, I hope Peter Dawson was spared the awful punishment of the Sinatra recording.

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 05:53 PM

Must be baaad, ard mhacha. Have you heard Pat Boone's Good Golly Miss Molly?

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: Joe_F
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:58 PM

N.B. Maurice Samuel pointed out that the Ten Commandments were issued just east of Suez.

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: The Walrus
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 07:08 AM

Shanghaiceltic,

Further to you Kipling's warning to drinkers, there is always the verse from 'Young British Soldier':-

First mind you steer clear o' the grog-sellers' huts,
For they sell you Fixed Bay'nets that rots out your guts—
Ay, drink that 'ud eat the live steel from your butts—
       An' it's bad for the young British soldier.
                Bad, bad, bad for the soldier . . .

As to 'lazy' vs 'eastward' in 'Mandalay', my copy of 'Rudyard Kipling's Verse 1885-1932' has 'lazy'.

Walrus

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:15 AM

Don't get me wrong--I've always liked Kipling (like every Sunday I go the park and Kipple.) But when did he (and Stephen Foster, for that matter) become Politically Correct? It used to be that anyone performing works from either could get practically lynched by all the proper-thinking folks around.
       Mandalay is clearly rascist--which doesn't stop it from being a fine song.

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: On The Road To Mandalay
From: Barbara
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 02:32 PM

Racist and sexist, dick, and like you say, good for singing. I was looking for it because Merritt asked my husband several times if he would sing it, I think because my partner has a very dramatic way of presenting a song, and Road to Mandalay lends itself to that.
Perhaps you have to be of a certain age to know the song.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: GUEST,Carol
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 12:13 AM

I have been looking or this music for years.
I now need the whole tune.
I remember it from when I was about Five years old.
I have been told it is fron an old Bob Hope movie titled the same.
Thanks,
cn

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Weasel Books
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 05:42 AM

Mandaly is not really racist, by PC standards definetely, but it's about a man with a sense of nostalgia for a DIFFERENT culture (which the narrator is bemused by) and sweethearts long gone.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 11:37 AM

It used to be fashionable to accuse Kipling of racism, despite the fact that he wrote much about the obligations of people and races to each other; it was fashionable to accuse him of Jingoism, despite the fact that he wrote 'Recessional'. What is more, as a Freemason he wrote about the inter-racial, inter-religious brotherhood of the Lodge.

I'm glad to see that some people can see through the noisy claptrap to the poetry still.

On a personal note --- in about 1970 I was challenged at a Bonfire Night Party to sing an apprpriate song for the local street theatre group, who were lolling about dressed in khaki and topis after presenting a play about S.Africa. For some reason 'Mandalay' sprang to mind. I had never sung it before, but had a neighbour who repeatedly played a disc of it by Owen Brannigan (I think). I sang it and received a more miscievous challenge --- to perform it on stage at our club --- the Songsmiths --- the following night.

Always one stupid enough to take a dare, I did so. The audience loved it and it became a closedown song for the club for many years. To my delight, Free Reed Records issued a recording of the Songsmiths Club doing Madalay on their commemorative set 'This Label is not Removable'.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 02:24 PM

"Kipling *is* a jingo imperialist, he *is* morally insensitive and aesthetically disgusting. It is better to start by admitting that, and then to try to find out why it is that he survives while the refined people who have sniggered at him seem to wear so badly." -- George Orwell, "Rudyard Kipling" (1942)

"God of your fathers, known of old / For patience with man's swaggering line, / He did not answer you when told / About you and your palm and pine, / Though you deployed your far-flung host / And boasted that you did not boast. / ... /Bless you, you will be blameless yet, / For God forgives and men forget." -- G. K. Chesterton, "Post-Recessional"

It's hard to hate Kipling. %^)

--- Joe Fineman    [e-mail]

||: Some think that if weapons abound they will not be used; some, that they will be. Most prefer not to think. :||

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 03:57 PM

That bit about 'boasting you did not boast' is a bit rich coming from a Catholic partisan like Chesterton - reading 'The Eternal man' is far more offensive than most Kipling.

Kipling is just too good to be pigeonholed.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 04:57 PM

By today's standards, 99 44/100 of pre- 20th century citizens of major western nations were 'jingoistic' and 'morally insensitive' towards the heathens in the rest of the world.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 05:20 PM

"___ist" ? Maybe in the same way that most people are when they're being honest. The song is, in feeling, an awful lot like "The 51st Highland Division's Farewell to Sicily."

I heard folks do this song with Bellamy's tune, and didn't really notice it. Jeff Warner sings it slow-ish, and it seems to mean a lot more when you can think about the words in between the notes, and hear it as something wistful and a bit sad.

Anybody who's ever listened to those who've lived in a foriegn land (especially during a war), when they complained about how bad it was on the surface, but were really talking about, "That was a time, wasn't it?" knows what I mean. The worst times sometimes are the best times. Kipling speaks as a common soldier, and really nails the irony of a person's heaven and hell being one and the same.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: curmudgeon
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 06:42 PM

Jeri has nailed this song down.   Jeff got his version directly from Peter Bellamy. The tune is from an Anglo-Australian song whose name I can't recall, but the last verse is "I'm off to see my mothre, ten thousand miles away." Forget all the other tunes; this can't be improved upon -- Tom

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 07:00 PM

As I said long ago, Bellamy's tune is the traditional version of "Ten Thousand Miles Away." DT has a midi of the original, nice and slow.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 07:13 PM

Tom, it's Claudy Banks,
"Collected by Jeff Davis from Fred Redden of Middle
Musquodoboit, Nova Scotia, ca 1990."

I'm now wondering about the tune and the time-line, and about chickens and eggs.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 07:33 PM

Lighter, I've looked in the DT, and I can't find the right song. (I found a different song with that title though.) Do you have a link or a search tip?

Per what I wrote above, 1990 was probably just when that particular version of the song was collected.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 07:46 PM

Then again, I don't believe it's the "off to see my mother" tune, it IS the Ten Thousand Miles Away in the DT. The song being the predecessor and the tune being the same as "A Capitol Ship." Or not. In any case, I think I'd better give it a rest for a while.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 11:45 PM

I'm off to my love with a boxing glove-

no?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 06:21 AM

Must admit that I haven't re-read evert post, so I may have missed it. Peter Dawson may rotate in his grave if he heard Sinatra's version, BUT where did the Mudcat MIDI tune originate. It's nothing like Peter's magnificent tune, which I had assumed was written by Oley Speaks.

Regards, John

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Anglo
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 08:54 AM

The Mudcat Midi tune is the setting by Henry Trevannion. You'll find it, and several other settings at the Lester Levy sheet music site. Go here and search for "Mandalay."

Also there (at Levy) is the more famous setting by Oley Speaks. I have a recording of Peter Dawson doing this one. It's almost certainly the one John in Brisbane refers to.

I do have a different Peter Dawson recording of a setting by Walter Hedgecock. Nowhere near as inspiring as the Speaks version IMHO. Dawson also recorded a version composed by Charles Willeby. I've not heard this one. All three are available on a CD from TrueSound Transfers, listing here.

As stated in the thread above, Peter Bellamy (let's not confuse our Peters) set Mandalay to an adaptation of "10,000 miles Away." And this is the one many of us latter-day folkies sing.

Fortunately I've not heard the Frank Sinatra recording. I did find the lyrics, however, and the scholar in me forces me to append them here. I particularly like "egg foo yong pagoda."

_______________________

Frank Sinatra - On The Road to Mandalay Lyrics

Writer(s): kipling/speaks


By the old moulmein pagoda
Looking eastward to the sea
There's a burma gal a settin'
And I know that she waits for me

And the wind is in those palm trees
And the temple bells they say
Come you back you mother soldier
Come you back to mandalay, come you back to mandalay

Come you back to mandalay
Where the old flotilla lay
I can here those paddles chonkin'
From rangoon to mandalay

On the road to mandalay
Where the flying fishes play
And the dawn comes up like thunder
Out of china across the bay

Ship me somewhere east of suez
Where the best is like the worst
And there ain't no ten commandments
And a cat can raise a thirst

And those crazy bells keep ringing
'cause it's there that I long to be
By the egg foo yong pagoda
Looking eastward to the see

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: GUEST,Lighter at work
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 09:15 AM

"Come you back, you *mother* soldier"? Can this be?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 12:55 PM

Well, that nails it down.

Jeff Warner does a nice version of this song, without resorting to "egg foo yong" I'm happy to report.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 01:23 PM

"Where a cat can raise a thirst" is pretty good, too. And "crazy bells"...cool, man!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: GUEST,Jacqued
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 02:15 PM

Look for a CD entitled "The Widows Uniform" (Realisation 0101).   Full of Kipling's poetry (15!) set to music and sung beautifully by Dave Webber, Brian Peters, John O'Hagen, Annie Fentiman and John Morris.   You'll not regret it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 07:25 PM

Thanks Anglo, until 10 minutes ago I thought I was the sort of person that welcomed variation, but I'll be forced to seriously re-consider this self analysis. In any event I feel compelled to post the magnificent Speaks version of the tune.

Regards, John

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 09:44 PM

And whatever the lyrics may be on the LP, I swear I heard Sinatra sing "Burma *broad*," as mentioned earlier, back in the '60s. Back then "mother" might have flown right past me.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Barry Finn
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 04:54 PM

Seeing as Rudyard's bithday falls between Christmas & New Years (Dec 30th) I'd say that anyone looking for an exttra reason to celerbrate during the hoildays use his bithday in the same manner that folks celerbrate Burns Night. He may not be on the same level as Burns but I'm sure that had they been living in the same times & area the two would've been fast friends & been the talk & the toast of the borders they would've crossed in order to share some drinks together.

Barry

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 05:39 PM

I've been pondering the geography again and it just doesn't add up. Moulmein Harbour, where the great pagoda is located, is not even on the "Road to Mandalay" as the British referred to the Irrawaddy River (from Rangoon to Mandalay), and there is no way from Moulmein that one could view "the dawn comes up like thunder outer China 'crost the Bay" or the Gulf of Martaban which lies beyond the harbour.

Great poem, though!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 06:27 PM

The pagoda Kipling had in mind was the Kyaikthanlan Pagoda, from which one can look at the joining of the Thanlwin River and the sea, according to friends who have been there. But the dawn comes up over what used to be called Indo-China, not China.

Kipling never got to Mandelay.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 09:26 PM

Q-

Well, Indo-China works. Geographers do have a never-ending challenge to keep countries properly named, not to mention rivers and major cities.

"Kyaikthanlan Pagoda"

"Thanlwin River"

Whatever!

Cheerily,
Charlie Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Mr Happy
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 06:55 AM

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VcEAMqiclxw


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dawson

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Snuffy
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 07:09 AM

Kipling never got to Mandalay

I hope he got to Rio before he was old

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 11:36 AM

Snuffy-

Sometimes it's better just to imagine being there!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 11:58 AM

It's interesting. Older people--(non-folkies) seem to far prefer the tune first used to set the poem to music---not the tune Peter Bellamy used. People like Peter Dawson evidently used the other tune before Peter Bellamy came on the scene. On the other hand I like the Peter Bellamy tune much better. I suppose it's what you first heard--or grew up with.

My stepfather loves the poem, but wants to hear it with the Dawson tune. So though I've learned the Bellamy tune and love to sing that while walking along, I'll have to also learn the other tune to please him.


(He's a great guy--loves music and has a sharp sense of humor--sings things like "Keep Your Head Down, Fritzi Boy"   (WW I parody of "Hold Your Hand Out, Naughty Boy").


Then I'll have to keep the two tunes totally separate.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 05:56 PM

With the dawn coming up from the direction of Indo-China, that'd be quite good enough to justify a Tommy in calling it China.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 12:27 AM

I vote for the Hedgecock MANDALAY!!!!
Ross San Francisco

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay
From: GUEST,david a banks
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 07:59 PM

I just found a copy of the sheet music (1898) of the Henry Trevannion setting. It reads Music Revised and Adapted by Henry Trevannion.
My question is...Adapted from what?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: Joe_F
Date: 14 Mar 12 - 10:07 PM

I have just been reading Kipling's autobiography _Something of Myself_ (with the OED, Google, & Wikipedia at hand) and have happened on the following, which should somewhat limit further speculation:

"...I wrote a song called 'Mandalay' which, tacked to a tune with a swing, made one of the waltzes of that distant age. A private soldier reviews his loves and, in the chorus, his experiences in the Burma campaign. One of his ladies lives at Moulmein, which is not on the road to anywhere, and he describes the _amour_ with some minuteness, but always in his chorus deals with 'the road to Mandalay,' his golden path to romance. The inhabitants of the United States, to whom I owed most of the bother, 'Panamaed' that song (this was before copyright), set it to their own tunes, and sang it in their own national voices. Not content with this, they took to pleasure cruising, and discovered that Moulmein did not command any view of any sun rising across the Bay of Bengal. They must have interfered too with the navigation of the Irrawaddy Flotilla steamers, for one of the Captains S.O.S.-ed me to give him 'something to tell these somethinged tourists about it.' I forget what word I sent, but I hoped it might help.
    "Had I opened the chorus of the song with 'Oh' instead of 'On the road,' etc., it might have shown that the song was a general mix-up of the singer's Far-Eastern memories against a background of the Bay of Bengal as seen at dawn from a troop-ship taking him there. But 'On' in this case was more singable than 'Oh.' That simple explanation may stand as a warning."

So! All we have to do now is unearth the original waltz tune, and discover precisely what Panamaing meant & why (the OED is unhelpful).

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Mar 12 - 07:57 AM

Joe-

The journey continues, with its twists and turns.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Mar 12 - 01:51 PM

Panamaed- my guess- borrow without permission.

Waltz tune? interesting.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: Joe_F
Date: 15 Mar 12 - 03:38 PM

"Borrowed without permission" -- I dare say. But what is the allusion? Perhaps to Kipling's friend Teddy Roosevelt, who "borrowed" Panama without permission? %^)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 15 Mar 12 - 07:46 PM

Then how do you explain this?:

Mr. John Burns, "Address in Answer to the Queen's Speech," Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, Fourth Series, Dec. 10, 1900, p. 468:

"What differentiates the British Parliament from any other Parliaments in the opinion of hon. Members opposite? It is because it does not 'Panama' as the French Parliament has occasionally done."

P. 474: "The man in the street who reads the Birmingham Post is beginning to think that our Parliament is also being 'Panama-ed' and that our public life has not that high standard of honour it formerly had....What is the charge against President Kruger [of the South African Republic]? It is that his administration was inefficent and his government corrupt. If that be true...we ought to put ourselves in a position which would make it impossible under our Standing Orders for such a charge to be made against our Parliament or any of our Ministers."

My guess is that it may mean "become corrupt(ed)." The French Parliament was swept by charges of bribery and corruption in 1892 related to plans for building the Canal.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: Joe_F
Date: 16 Mar 12 - 03:06 PM

Aha! So Kipling is saying that the Americans *corrupted* the song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 16 Mar 12 - 04:52 PM

But it's still only a guess.

To "Panama" isn't in the OED. If it was as amazingly rare as it seems, I'm surprised that Kipling picked it up.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 10:40 AM

It is intriguing the half-life of slang words. "Boycott" has endured through the ages. "Watergate" and all the other "gates" has been persistent but will probably fade away. I hadn't run across "Panama-ed" but it certainly would have had some bite during the early 1900s.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 06 Sep 13 - 08:02 AM

Q, still doubt you can sing "Mandalay" to "10,000 Miles Away"?

Try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKOXJ9VwWtU

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 13 - 07:18 PM

Thanks for the Bellamy link.
In school long ago, we sang "A Capital Ship" at a fast clip. Sounds entirely different from the way Bellamy uses the tune.

chorus-
Then blow ye winds hi-ho
A-roving I will go
I'll stay no more on England's shore
So let the music play-ay-ay
I'm off to my love with a boxing glove
Ten thousand miles away.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 12:46 PM

Lighter, I had "Capital Ship" in mind. Never really listened to the original "Ten Thousand Miles."

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 04:57 PM

OK

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 07:57 PM

Enlightening stylistic contrasts:

bel canto:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnKhTj4x2cc


bel canto lite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahU2lUUKBC4


pop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bs2_WxT9bI

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 27 Jun 15 - 09:59 AM

Wikipedia mentions a version by Vera Il'inichna Matveeva which is here(with a discussion about whether a good Russian should be singing songs by Kipling)
. . S. Valozhyn -Vera Matveeva. Polonsky. Kipling.
...for the mp3 go down a page or two to the fourth blue play button 'TYT'
(or use a translate button?)

This is also credited to Vera Matveeva but sung by Viktor Verstakov.(lyrics and YouTube)
. http://prevodi-tekstova.com/pesma/pokazati/1763527/vera-matveeva/tekst-i-prevod-na-doroge-v-mandalej/

. http://www.viktorverstakov.narod.ru

.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: Thompson
Date: 27 Jun 15 - 06:40 PM

I'm fond of Kipling, but he was a horrid old jingoist.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 15 Oct 20 - 05:24 PM

YouTube of Vera Matveeva
https://youtu.be/ZWSI2BB8Sy8

Wiki Vera Matveeva
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B0,_%D0%92%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0_%D0%98%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B0

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 15 Oct 20 - 06:43 PM

Who was the US politician who said:

The Panama Canal is ours --
we stole it fair and square!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: On the Road to Mandalay (Kipling, Speaks)
From: GUEST,Mike Yates
Date: 16 Oct 20 - 04:48 AM

To be honest, I much prefer the Billy 'Almost a Gentleman' Bennett's surreal parody:

On the banks of the River Schlemozzle,
Mid the deserts and sands of Dundalk,
I've hunted wild llamas in purple pyjamas,
I've eaten pea soup with a fork.
I've struggled with skivvies and oojah-ka-pivvies,
I've milked tabby cats in Tibet.
I've cut off the conkers from buzz-a-fazonkers,
But oh, the worst time I've had yet, was

On The Road To Mandalay, where you'll see the fried fish play.
They bring their own chips with them when it's early-closing day.
There's Ghurkas doing mazurkas with baboons inside their bunks,
There's kangaroos with carpet bags and elephants with trunks,
And fat men dump their 'ombongpong' inside their Clapham Juncs
On The Road To Mandalay.

In an old white-washed pagoda, looking Eastward to the West,
A Burmese girl from Bermondsey sits in a sparrow's nest.
She's as pretty as a picture, though she lost one eye they say,
Through the Black Hole of Calcutta, and the keyhole of Bombay.

Look as far as you can see, boy, look a little further son,
For that Burma girl is burning - stick a fork in, see if she's done.
Oh, that dainty dusky damsel, Indian features, proud and sweet;
Indian ink upon her fingers, Indian corns upon her feet.

There's not a drop of water, in this waste of desert land.
The soldiers' tongues are hanging out, and trailing in the sand.
They're hanging out like carpets, and you'll hear the natives say
'Mr Drage has laid the lino, On The Road To Mandalay.'

See that stately dromedary with his hind leg give a kick,
On his back there's two mosquitoes singing 'Stop Your Jockling, Tick'.
On the hump there sit two Hindus: when the drom-drom gives a cough
And they exit through the early doors, as the monkey says 'They're off!'

There's a farm on the horizon, looking eastward to Siam,
We could have some ham and eggs there, if they had some eggs and ham
They've only got one hen, they call her 'Mandy' by the way,
They found out she's a cock - that's why they can't make Mandy lay.

There's no maps for the soldiers, in this land of Gunga Din,
So they picked the toughest warrior out, and tattooed on his skin.
On his back he's got Calcutta, lower down he's got Bombay.
And you'll find him sitting peacefully On The Road To Mandalay.

On The Road To Mandalay,where the girls are tout-au-fait
They wear short skirts and shingled hair, and one dark foggy day,
I chased one in a kiosque...I'm a playful sort of chap,
I pulled her on my knee, then on the jaw I got a slap
I found a Gordon Highlander was sitting in my lap.

By the way, the joke about Kipling's name, mentioned above, featured on a well-known seaside postcard, which showed an elderly man looking at a younger girl. The man says, 'Do you like Kipling?' to which the girl replies. 'I don't know. I've never Kippled.'