Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice

Subject: Songs for Sudanese Minister of Justice
From: melodeonboy
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:43 AM

In light of recent events, and as a token of appreciation for the sterling work that the Sudanese Justice Ministry does in maintaining high moral standards, I'd like to propose a list of songs which would be "essential listening" for the Sudanese Minister of Justice.

Here are my nominations:

"Teddy Bear" (Elvis Presley)
"Teddy Bears' Picnic"
"Waltzing with Bears"
"Whip Crack-Away"

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Peace
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 02:17 PM

Any funeral dirge would be a good thing, imo.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 02:32 PM

Ready Teddy
Muhammed Ali
Rumble in the Jungle

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,The Mole catcher's Apprentice
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 02:45 PM

Teddy Bear, Teddy Bear

Teddy Lost His Coat

Grizzly Bear

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,Songster Bob
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 02:52 PM

Well, since the mullahs and imams oppose music-making anyway, the idea of a 'theme song' is kind of lost on them, to be sure.

Bob

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 03:00 PM

"Well, since the mullahs and imams oppose music-making anyway"

Hmm...that's interesting...I'd bet you'd get an arguement from Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens)over that remark...

An Other Cup

2006

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 03:03 PM

How about

"Bongo, bongo, bongo, I don' wanna leave the jungle, no-o-o-o- not me!
Bingo bango bango, I'm so happy in the jungle I don' wanna gooooo..."



A

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 03:24 PM

Isn't it strange how we can treat asylum-seekers and (most) foreigners like shit - but let them lay a hand on one of ours.........
How about 'Rule Brittania'?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 04:27 PM

So. let's see Jim, when did the British last arrest anyone for letting someone else call their teddy-bear "Mohammed" - or any other name?

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 04:34 PM

Fwiw, since I had no clue what this thread was about, I googled "Sudanese Ministry of Justice" and found this news report:

Sudan charges British teacher with insulting Islam
Thu 29 Nov 2007, 0:16 GMT

By Opheera McDoom

KHARTOUM, Nov 28 (Reuters) - A British teacher detained in Sudan after her class called a teddy bear Mohammad was charged on Wednesday with insulting Islam in a move that sparked a diplomatic row between London and Khartoum.

Gillian Gibbons, 54, was also charged with inciting hatred and showing contempt for religious beliefs, Sudanese official media said. If convicted, she could face 40 lashes, a fine, or one year in jail.

"Khartoum North prosecution unit has completed its investigation and has charged the Briton Gillian (Gibbons) under Article 125 of the criminal code," the Sudanese news agency SUNA said, quoting a senior Justice Ministry official.

In London, a Foreign Office spokesman confirmed Gibbons had been charged and officials said Foreign Secretary David Miliband was calling in the Sudanese ambassador over the affair.

"We are surprised and disappointed by this development and the foreign secretary will summon as a matter of urgency the Sudanese ambassador to discuss this matter further," Prime Minister Gordon Brown's official spokesman said.

In Washington, U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said: "We are following the situation of the British teacher closely and with concern."

The matter will go before a court on Thursday and Gibbons, who is from Liverpool, is expected to appear.

A statement from the Sudanese embassy in London said the case came in response to parents' complaints.

"It is now a police case and the temptation to treat it as a media sensation should be resisted. We certainly do not wish to resort to 'trial by media'.

"British teachers are doing a great job in Sudan. We hope that Ms Gibbons' case will soon be resolved," it said.

Fellow teachers said they did not believe Gibbons had intended to insult Islam and had made an innocent mistake in choosing the name...

http://africa.reuters.com/wire/news/usnL28881224.html

-snip-

It seems to me that it takes a special kind of dedication, courage, strength, and adventure for a person from one culture to
re-locate to another culture and teach students there.

However, those who provide orientation for such cross-cultural efforts should be proactive in teaching the cultural dos and don'ts of a particular society. If this teacher had received such an orientation, it's likely that this incident would not have occurred.

Since "Mohammad" is such a ubiquitous Arabic male name, the teacher who gave that name to a teddy bear, may have thought that it wouldn't matter since it would be like giving a stuffed animal a very common Western name like "Bobby" or "Johnny."{The name "Teddy" isn't all that common but the bear was named after President Teddy [Theodore] Rooselvelt}. But on the other hand, I don't think most British would name a teddy bear "Jesus". I think that example is comparable for the woman naming the teddy bear "Mohammad".

Be that as it may, I sincerely hope that this teacher does not receive any punishment for naming a teddy bear the same name as the Islamic Prophet Mohammad.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 04:36 PM

Correction-

"I think that example is comparable to the woman naming the teddy bear "Mohammad".

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:17 PM

Anyway....she got 15 days (five of which come under time already served)and she'll be deported.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:20 PM

Azizi, one of my sons made that same comparison. I think it was actually one of the children in the class who had the name Mohammad and wanted it for the teddy. It is much less common for children to be named Jesus. Mohammad (or one of the spellings of that name) is actually one of the most popular names for boys in the UK so I imagine she wouldn't have realised that it would offend.

I do agree that anybody wishing to work and live in a different society should be educated and sensitive to the culture in that society. I understand that she has been sentenced to 15 days in prison and will then be deported - which seems quite harsh.

As far as songs for the justice ministry - I can't think of anything suitable to suggest at the moment!

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:25 PM

Jesus pronounced Hay-zus is a fairly common male name in Latin-America

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Maryrrf
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:25 PM

I don't really think naming the Teddy bear Mohammed would be the equivalent of naming a Teddy bear 'Jesus. Mohammed is a very common first name, while Jesus isn't - at least in non-hispanic cultures. I don't like religious fanaticism in any form, and this case really annoys me. I'm glad at least she wasn't whipped, and hope she'll be treated decently while in jail.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:39 PM

I hope the teacher gets home very soon....no such fate for the Sudanese worker killed when those american jets roared out of the sky to bomb his medical supplies factory which left Sudan's only such company a smoking ruin.
Was that some International law or the law of the jungle? Thank you President Clinton!
Albert

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Peace
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:49 PM

This child is from Darfur in western Sudan. Ministry of Justice? There IS no justice in Sudan. Teddy bear named Mohammed? That's much more inportant than the kid, right? F#ck the Ministry of Justice.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:55 PM

Maybe we should have a Muhammed Teddy Bear day in defiance of Sudan.

We could all take our teddies and label them Mohammed and then have a processiuon in every town in the UK in protest to Sudan.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 06:01 PM

Well it was just a thought. :-)

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 06:19 PM

What Bruce said.

**

The situation in modern day Sudan shows how low a once great kingdom can fall.

Fwiw, here's an excerpt from an online article that provides information about ancient Sudan {also known as "Nubia", Kush, and "[ancient] Ethiopia"}

"Ancient Nubia (Sudan) (Map). Around 5,000 years ago, a rich and powerful nation called the kingdom of Kush (also referred to as ancient Nubia) was a center of culture and military might in Africa. Ancient Nubia had a wealth of natural resources such as gold, ivory, copper, frankincense and ebony but they also produced and traded a variety of goods such as pottery. The Nubians formed the foundation of the Proto-Dravidians, Proto-Elamites, Proto-Mande speakers and West Atlantic people...

Their bowmen warriors (Exhibit 1) were known and feared by those who saw them in battles. Ancient Nubia's lands are now part of modern Egypt and Sudan. Its geographic position meant that much of ancient Nubia's development is connected to that of ancient Egypt. In fact, Egypt ruled much of Nubia between 2000 B.C. and 1000 B.C., but when Egypt collapsed into civil war, Nubian kings ruled Egypt from around 800 B.C. to 700 B.C.

The Nubians are believed to be the first human race on earth, and most of their customs and traditions were adopted by the ancient Egyptians [Diodorus; History, Book III: 2).. To the Greeks, they were known as Ethiopians and Nubia as the land of Punts, i.e. the land of gods.

Nubians are the people of northern Sudan and southern Egypt. With a history and traditions which can be traced to the dawn of civilization, the Nubian first settled along the banks of the Nile from Aswan. Along this great river they developed one of the oldest and greatest civilizations in Africa. Until they lost their last kingdom (Christian Nubia) only five centuries back the Nubians remained as the main rivals to the other great African civilization of Egypt.

Nubia is the homeland of Africa's earliest black culture with a history which can be traced from 3800 B.C. onward through Nubian monuments and artifacts, as well as written records from Egypt and Rome. In antiquity, Nubia was a land of great natural wealth, of gold mines, ebony, ivory and incense which was always prized by her neighbors."

http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/nubians.html

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 07:00 PM

Since this thread is in the music section, here's a song that imo speaks to the greater issue in the Sudan:

WE ARE THE WORLD
{Michael Jackson and Lionel Ritchie}

There comes a time when we need a certain call
When the world must come together as one
There are people dying
Oh, and it's time to lend a hand to life
The greatest gift of all

We can't go on pretending day by day
That someone, somehow will soon make a change
We're all a part of God's great big family
And the truth - you know love is all we need

( CHORUS )
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
so let's start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me

Well, send'em you your heart
So they know that someone cares
And their lives will be stronger and free
As God has shown us
By turning stone to bread
And so we all must lend a helping hand

( REPEAT CHORUS )

When you're down and out
There seems no hope at all
But if you just believe
There's no way we can fall
Well, well, well, let's realize
That one change can only come
When we stand together as one

( REPEAT CHORUS AND FADE )

http://www.inthe80s.com/weworld.shtml

{This website includes information about this song, a list of the R&B and Pop singers who recorded the original version of this song, and the lyrics of this song with the designation as to which singer sung which lines]

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 07:03 PM

Here's the YouTube video of "We Are The World":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INwB0BWVDnM

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 07:16 PM

The "We Are The World" YouTube video has 212 text comments to date.

One of the comments is that "Aid helps, but so would kicking despotic criminals out of positions of govermnent".
-fodsaks


True dat.

But for those who are inclined to give aid, here's a link to an organization that will put your donation to good use:

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/news/sudan.cfm

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 07:55 PM

Here's another song that I think is appropriate:

WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS NOW IS LOVE
{Hal David and Burt Bacharach}

What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love,
It's the only thing that there's just too little of.
What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.

Lord, we don't need another mountain,
There are mountains and hillsides enough to climb,
There are oceans and rivers enough to cross,
Enough to last 'til the end of time.

What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love,
It's the only thing that there's just too little of.
What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.

Lord, we don't need another meadow,
There are cornfields and wheatfields enough to grow,
There are sunbeams and moonbeams enough to shine,
Oh listen Lord, if you want to know...oh...

What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love,
It's the only thing that there's just too little of.
What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some oh but just for every, every, everyone.

What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love.
What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love.
What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love.

-snip-

Here's a YouTube video of this song as sung by the first artist who recorded it, Jackie DeShannon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpzDJFvmYwk&feature=related
"what the world needs now is love"-Jackie DeShannon

"What the World Needs Now Is Love" is a 1965 popular song with lyrics by Hal David and music composed by Burt Bacharach . It was first recorded by Jackie DeShannon and reached number 7 in the US charts May of that year".
-SeaBuccaneer

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 08:37 PM

Have fun with this topic while it lasts, gang, but Azizi is correct with her first post. We should at least pause, consider our own cultural blinders, before concluding that some other society is behaving "bizarrely" or "irrationally." That being said, I would say that the British teacher in this case was acting naively at a privilged private school and got stung. She is lucky that her punishment wasn't worse.

When I was in the Peace Corps in Ethiopia in the 1960's, one of my PC friends was explaining the concept of carbon-14 dating to his students. At one point he was indiscrete enough to suggest that the Emperor Hailie Salassie had less carbon-14 in his body than the tree outside the classroom. He was shipped home within 24 hours. There just was no reasonable way that he could explain that "example" to the director of the Ministry of Education.

We are "guests" in other countries. Wise up!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Peace
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 09:50 PM

The cultural screw up aside, that country's government allows genocide.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 09:56 PM

Peace-

Sorry. Let's nuke 'em!

Guess I'm feeling grumpy this evening.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Peace
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 10:11 PM

I'm feelin' happy. So who's feeling doc and sleepy and . . . .

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 10:57 PM

It's not about the bear. It's not about Mohammed. It is about the mounting criticism that the Sudanese government is getting for creating a "New Rwanda" in Darfur. It is an attempt to distract world attention by showing that we have contempt for aspects of their culture.

And they are right--I have contempt for butchery that pretends to holiness. Am I being insensitive?

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Goose Gander
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 11:30 PM

It is funny . . . people who feel passionately about massacres committed 500 years ago are blase about mass murder taking place right now.

It does, however, make it easier to understand contemporary indifference about the murder of the Jews during WWII.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 12:26 AM

Another funny thing, in a cosmic sense, anyway, is that there are many people who are outspoken vegetarians and outspoken opponents of abortion, but there are damn few who will speak up against genocide.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 02:16 AM

Good job these people aren't in Sudan at the moment.

How many days for this?

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 02:44 AM

"So. let's see Jim, when did the British last arrest anyone for letting someone else call their teddy-bear "Mohammed" - or any other name?"
Never, in my experience Richard.
But the British authorities have been responsible for returning refugees back into the hands of murderous regimes and allowing them to die in prisons and torture chambers, or simply of hunger and neglect. Along with the US, our government has supported many of those regimes politically and financially and the British and US public have by and large stayed silent and indifferent.
Doesn't it not strike you as odd that Saudi Arabia, one of the great abusers of human rights, is counted among our greatest allies.
Such abuses (now where did I read about the rape victim who has been sentenced to 200 lashes?), have been going on unchecked (and quite openly) for a long time without the UK or the US Governments batting an eyelid - how about a song about that (or would that affect our oil supply)?
Jim Carroll
PS As an Irish resident, I can see the same double standards operating here, with the added irony that at present the government here is pulling out all the stops to get the US to issue illegal Irish residents with work permits.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 03:21 AM

" Oh lets go to the stoning " Jehovah, there I've fecking said it, anyone want to stone me to death ? it really is like Monty Python.

Thank god I'm an atheist.

eric

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 03:30 AM

Double standards, Jim, on your part.

Show me a government anywhere that does not deport refugees.

Show me a government anywhere that chooses its allies on conscience rather than political advantage.

Show me a time Saudi Arabia or any other Arab nation arrested a Briton (even the one alleged to have been implicit in murderous bombings to ontrol an illegal alcohol trade) and I'll show you British Government intercession.

The rape victim sentenced to receive lashes was a national of the country concerned (and yes I think it was Saudi Arabia, and yes the sentence is revolting) and it would have been interference in internal affairs of another country for Britian to intercede.

This case is about a British citizen, criminally sentenced because someone else called a teddy bear by one of the most common names for a person in the host country. There is no basis for UK-bashing in that.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 03:55 AM

Why is intervening in the case of the rape victim interference in the internal affairs of another country, yet the Sudanese case not - the teacher in question was a resident of Sudan and therefore subject to their laws (whatever we might think of them).
Since the end of WW1 the US has bombed, invaded or otherwise directly interfered in the internal affairs of over 50 countries (not to mention   the clandestine activities) all with British support. Is this not interfering in the internal affairs of other countries (or doesn't Viet Nam, Grenada, Chile, Korea, The Gulf, Iraq, The Philippines - et al, count).
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 04:26 AM

Because the rape victim was Saudi.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 04:28 AM

Before we revisit the history of colonialism, isn't Jim's basic point fair enough?

The British press are by and large evil and distort most things, but I guess they are much better than, for one, the Sudanese press. I followed the cover of the Daily Express one summer, it had 14 continuous days of anti asylum seeker front page headlines. Asylum seekers are seeker asylum from murder and torture, yes I know some are not.

The final front page that summed up the Express was "Asylum Seekers ate my Donkey".

Just hope that none of us ever becomes part of an article in the British Press, they almost always get facts wrong and if you are involved in anything contentious they will probably misrepresent your point of view, not care and never put things right.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 05:11 AM

I think the Sudanese fanatics are a disgrace to punish the teacher, the lady should have had the same chance as asylum seekers in Europe, most of whom are still awaiting justice, after spending up to a year and more in prison.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 05:36 AM

We know how much you like the British, dear ard, but the teacher was legally in the country, not illegally.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: The PA
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 05:57 AM

'Schools Out!' certainly is for one teacher.

Villian, I'm with you there. I've already re-named my teddy! I've actually named him after my brother in law, and he doesn't mind a bit. (My brother in law, not the teddy).

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 07:03 AM

Jim Carroll, with you all the way on this one.

Shows that the world would be a far, far better place without organised religion - of any sort. Fundamentalism stinks, whether it's in Sudan, Saudi, The States or Britain.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 07:12 AM

Lots of people call teddy bears Jesus. It's the cross- eyed one.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 07:16 AM

Just a Teddy with a wrong name

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:11 AM

Jim Carroll & the leveller - Iam with you also.

When somebody says they are doing something in the name of ?????, then i become seriously worried.

Isn't it funny that most wars seem to be "with ??? on my side"

Religion has a lot to answer for.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:20 AM

Most organised religions can be a pain - but Jim seems to think that this teacher should be left to be flogged and rot in a Sudanese jail because she is English and the English authorities are nasty to asylum seekers.

No-one should be with him on that.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:45 AM

According to Sky News just now, there's a demonstration going on in Khartoum, with 'thousands with sticks and knives' demanding that she be shot.

Bloody good job she wasn't done for something serious, like riding her bike at night without lights - they'd have stoned her to death by now.

There's something seriously wrong with a religion that's prepared to imprison someone for calling a teddy Mahomed or, even worse, put a woman to death for the 'crime' of having been raped.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:45 AM

I'll leave Jim to answer that for himself but, peronally, that's not the impression I got at all. He is exposing the gross hypocrisy of the British and, especially, the US who, let's not forget, transport 'suspects' to other countries so that they can have them tortured on their behalf and still get on their knees on a Sunday and tell their perverted idea of a god how virtuous and blameles they are. Bastards!

So, Richard, do you think that the inmates of Guantanemo Bay should be left to rot?

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:46 AM

I agree with what you say Richard. My support is about religion.

Going into another country to work legally, is totally different to trying to get into a country illegally.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:55 AM

Thank you leveller; save me the effort of answering.
Jim Carroll