Review: Worst club and why

Subject: Review: Worst club and why
From: GUEST,Dave (M)
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 07:16 AM

What is the worst club you have ever been to and why?

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Peace
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 07:28 AM

Can't recall the name, but it was in NYC. I only went once. The people seemed difficult to deal with in that what they made at the bar was more important than what the musician was doing on the stage. Noise was bad. I'd gone to see a blues singer but left after 15 minutes or so.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 07:28 AM

I don't know about others' experiences, but from what I know ladies of the night stay clear of folk clubs - not much trade there.

Or did I misunderstand the question?

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 07:37 AM

Birmingham City Football Club.
Why becuase any Villan hates BCFC.

or is the question about sausages?

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 07:42 AM

Ah, I see where I went whrong now...

My worst club visit: The club started 30 mins late, the floorspots before the guest lasted 50 mins, the guest only squeezed 4 songs in each set as a result. Not that we could hear much, as there was a bar running in the function room, and the din was deafening. The club room furniture and curtains had absorbed centuries' worth of smoke and grime, and they looked and smelled appropriately. People joined in all the choruses, at about half-speed and a semitone or so off-target.

At the end, 15 minutes were spent raffling 10 prizes and doing the parish notices, by which time the guest had packed all his gear away - and then came the question "would you like to hear another one from our guest?". The secretary left early with the money, so the guest couldn't be paid and nobody knew what the billet arrangements were for the guest and his wife. They ended up sleeping in the car, I understand.

The club was X (you wouldn't want me to name it now, would you?)

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 07:48 AM

It wouldn't be Buckingham Palace, would it George?

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 07:51 AM

Interestingly, this is GUEST,Dave(M),s first ever post. I wonder who it really is? Why is he trying to gather evidence of bad folk clubs?

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 07:54 AM

As usual Snail - A guest with a very controversial question. Best left to humour.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Mr Happy
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 08:09 AM

What's a 'Whorst club'?

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 08:32 AM

I took it as a shortened version of "whor(e)st". But Les mistook it for a celtic spelling for "wurst" or sausage. "Club" itself can have several interpretations of course. So pick any combination of the two.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 08:40 AM

Maybe this is the club Click on me

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: BusyBee Paul
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 08:45 AM

Oh Les, brilliant link (which whasn't (sic) intended as a sausage joke!).

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 08:47 AM

!!! You couldn't make it up, could you?

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Mr Happy
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 08:59 AM

More sosidges here:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tPo2xjWYDUg

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 09:09 AM

Big Al does that brilliant, doesn't he Mr Happy. It certainly makes me laugh.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 09:19 AM

What an unfair question! Although, hand on heart, I can answer it. Can't remember the name but that club in Soho where they promised a live sex show and then tried to charge me £50 for a champagne cocktail would take some beating...

:D

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 09:45 AM

why do people ask thesequestions?why not the best club you have ever been to.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 09:51 AM

Captain Birdseye

why do people ask these questions?

There has been a certain amount of anti-folk club posting on other threads. I think someone may be trawling for amunition.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 10:09 AM

Bletchley RFC. The post match meal was tuna. TUNA!!!!! Us rugby players need meat.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: BusyBee Paul
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 10:19 AM

I shushpect Guest: Dave(M)might jusht be Shean Canary in disguise.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: GUEST,Dave(M)
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 10:28 AM

Ok so there was a typo, so what.
At least I use a real name and not an unrecognisable nickname.
the question arose because I have had a number of people telling me of a certain club where they would never go to again as it was the worst folc club they had ever been to. Cliqueish, don't speak to strangers or people with guitars etc etc. Oh by the way, in the North of England it is.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 10:37 AM

Are you on about this Deirdre?

Just a a little snippet from
Memories Of WW2: A Child in North Birmingham on about a story of families fleeing from their houses to their air raid shelters after a bomb had hit the houses but didn't go off..

The house occupiers, an Irish family named McGarthy, were, like all sensible folk, in their Anderson shelter, which was halfway down their back garden, and my friend John, was at this time also in his own shelter, which virtually faced the McGarthy's with only about ten yards seperating the two structures. About an hour after the bomb had landed conversations was heard coming fromn the McGarthy's shelter. It was Mrs Mac that was speaking.
"Oh! Moi God Shean!"
"What?"
"Oi fergot da por canary!"
"what about da bloody ting?"
"he"s in der wit dat bomb ting."
"Holy mudder of God are yer barmy or sumpin"
There was a pause.
"Shean"
"Wot Now?"
"Shean, do you tink he'll be upset?"
"Listen woman I am not going out der to foind out orl roit"
"Oh but Sh......!"
A huge explosion shook the very ground soil from on top of the Anderson shelter into the shelters themselves, then a sort of silence. The sort that you know will only last for a short time before voices from everywhere commence calling, but in the silence a male irish voice said
"Ye'll not have ta worry about that por little canary no more."
"ooh Shean, do'ya tink he suffered?"
John said that any response to this question was drowned out by shouts of most other people in the road as they reacted to the explosion. All asking questions of each other.

I'll get me canary.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: GUEST,Dave(M)
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 10:42 AM

What's that got to do with the thread? Absolutely nothing as usual.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 10:50 AM

OK, Dave(M), at the risk of explaining the obvious:

Your friends who advised you against visiting "a certain club" are entitled to their views. These things being subjective, there will always be someone who might disagree with them. You are of course within your rights to trust their opinion and not visit that club.

But as I said, these things are subjective. I have views about some clubs too. I would never dream of airing them in public however, as I don't want to risk potentially slandering a club based simply on my own subjective views. And so I declined the invitation to state my "worst club", initially in a roundabout way, just to be polite.

And I hope others will, too (decline, that is). But that is for them to decide.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Mr Happy
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 10:58 AM

Presumably, its folk clubs is the topic.

If you don't like a venue, don't go there.

In most areas there's alternative places to go.

If not, start your own, I did!

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 10:59 AM

Dave
We get so many guests posting on here, criticising or trying to wind people up, so it stands to reason that you are unlikely to be taken seriously.
Why don't you join instead of being a guest.
Rather than possibly slag a Folk Club off publicly on this forum, why don't you write to them and voice your feelings directly to them, so that they can look into your complaints.
I would much rather have somebody coming to me personally, if they have problems with Faldingworth Live, not go round slagging the club off, without me having a chance to put right any issues.
Sometimes organisers get so used to how they run the club, thinking that all is OK.

Its the same as going to a restaurant. If I am unhappy with the food, service etc, I ask to see the manager and quietly point out my complaint. More often than not, they react positively to the complaint and thank me for coming directly to them in the first instance.
Cheers
Les Worrall

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 11:02 AM

Well said Les. Instead, posing the question in the open is equivalent to standing outside the restaurant and asking the diners as they come out, or passers by.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: GUEST,Betsy at Work
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 11:07 AM

Dave M - spit it out - where is it / what's it called / and let's have an objective discussion about it why it's "alleged" to be not very good and stop all this fannying about.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 11:11 AM

Kaiser Chiefs 1st hit

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 11:11 AM

Please, lets not Betsy.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 11:14 AM

An invitation to slander, or at least to gossip.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Gervase
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 11:50 AM

For me it has to be my nearest club (which is about 20 miles away).
Last summer we had some singing friends to stay so I decided to take a rare night off and go to this club. Five of us turned up and trooped up the stairs to a rather spartan room full of empty chairs but with a mixer desk and two speaker stacks at the front. We effectively doubled the audience.
Half an hour after the advertised start time the entertainment began.
We sat through a couple of absolutely dreadful floor spots, one a woman singing her own self-penned stuff, which was dire but almost funny (although she would have been morified to hear her angst called funny), and the other a chap doing Steeleye covers, off key and with an appalling guitar accompaniment, and then it was half an hour of non-sop amplified bluegrass from the organiser and his partner.
At the break I approached the organiser and asked as to the chance of doing a spot. Anyone would think I'd crapped in his beer mug. "I'm sorry, this is very much a performance club - we don't tend to have unsolicited floor spots."
I explained that our friends had come a long way and that the club's website gave the impression that it was a regular club, with no booked guests that night. The organiser's partner intervened and assured us (and him) that it would be OK for two of us to do a spot at the end of the second half.
There was another 40 minutes of bluegrass (well-played, it must be said) and then the appointed time came. "We have some guests who say they sing a capella," said the organiser through gritted teeth. As soon as we approached the front he then pointedly got up and left the room, not to return until a polite ripple of applause told him we'd finished.
Still, at least there was no raffle!
Needless to say, that was my first and last visit to that club.
Sadly the next nearest folk club is abut 45 miles away, which means that I'm stuffed. And running a smallholding and a business means that there's no way I can find the time to start my own.
And if anyone wants to PM me I'll tell them where it is so they can avoid it.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 11:54 AM

Surely market forces will result in such places closing down - unfriendly/cliquey = low takings = no acts = no club??? Let them run the club how they want!

My experience of folk clubs I have visited (up north) - not really my thing but very friendly and welcoming.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: GUEST,Mike Cain
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 11:58 AM

Gervase,
         Your superb description of a dreadful night only fires my inquisitiveness more so. Please let us all know where this club is, it won`t do you any harm
                                                 Mike

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 11:59 AM

Dave(M): This isn't at all helpful.

I'm not a particularly huge fan of folk clubs, as some here may have gathered.

However I don't think there's any call to name and shame particular clubs you haven't enjoyed on a public forum. What good does it possibly achieve?

I'd suggest that if you want to find out if the club in question is any good, visit it and see for yourself. If you don't want to visit, there's nothing to worry about, is there?

I'd be far more interested in people who believe they run successful, dynamic, thriving and joyful folk clubs sharing their secrets than following your suggestion.

Not on this thread, though.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Graveyard
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 12:19 PM

I think it is quite ok to mention folk clubs you did not enjoy, especially if you say why

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 12:26 PM

It can be OK, but it depends how it is done. In this case, an invitation for people to mention their worst club leads to a creation of a blacklist. If you are the organiser of one of the clubs likely to end on that list you would like a fair chance at responding, would you not? yet many of the organisers do not attend this forum, and are therefore denied that chance. They are tried in absentia, as it were.

"And so?" I hear you ask, "Let market forces do their work". But I don't consider a conversation on Mudcat to be equivalent to "market forces" - it is a trial "in camera".

Still, I don't suppose I will persuade otherwise those determined enough to name and shame here. So let their own conscience be their guide.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: GUEST,Mike Cain
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 12:41 PM

I cannot see a problem with relating bad experiences and mentioning the venues. Like all bad publicity(consider the consumer world)it will those make responsible for the product or service take onboard the criticisms, do something about it and improve or ignore it and go to the wall. In the case of the latter we will be better off without it.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Nick
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:08 PM

A lot depends on what you expect - or have been led to expect. I have been to places that I would not return to and places that I wax lyrical to all and sundry. Others may go to the same places with different expectations and have a completely different experience.

We run a weekly get together which I have talked about before so won't bore you where we sing, play and even occasionally have Les Barker monologues or the occasional poem. Some of it is chorus, some of it is session all playing together some of it is individual (there is a list here on another thread of a week's worth of songs and tunes from a while ago). We try to be friendly to outsiders and make them welcome, encourage people to get involved (there was a lovely bit of unaccompanied singing recently from a young lad who came with his mother who would be about 12 I'd guess) and generally are what we are.

There was a man who came to visit once (one of the few who has never returned) who I think would put us down as one of the worse places he had been to judging by what he said to me (before I smacked him with a shovel - no, not really!). We sang all the wrong songs including 'The Deserter' by Fairport which should never be heard anywhere - there were guitars and fiddles - some people didn't do traditional songs (shock horror) and the women's beards probably weren't long enough. In short, we weren't what he was looking for or perhaps expecting. That he had to be so offensive about it when he was a visitor was I think wrong but chacun a son gout as they say. Perhaps what was surprising was that he had been invited by a long term regular who you would think might have explained a little more but there you go. Perhaps he has an agenda to change the places he visits into what he believes they should be rather than what they are.

One man's meat and all that.

I had a visit to a very respected singing venue which I found unhospitable but had a very civilised dialogue on this site with the chap who ran it when I explained my experience - it wasn't name and shame, just my particular experience and I don't thik any offence was taken just perhaps a little surprise.

To end on a positive note - Wigan folk club I'd recommend to anyone who enjoys a participatory singaround experience because it was brilliant; there's a pub in the backstreets of Dunstable that I thought was lovely and I can't remember the name (Tuesday night I think with a wooden floor in the back of the pub); Sunday afternoons in Beverley has always been enjoyable; Swinton folk club the few times I have visited; the Ormidale hotel in Arran on a Sunday evening - to name but a few.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:15 PM

'What's that got to do with the thread? Absolutely nothing as usual.'

the as usual bit at the end of the remark says, loud and clear, one of the usual suspects/posters

Charlotte R

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Emma B
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:24 PM

this one

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:45 PM

You rang?

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:54 PM

Now this guy is completely nuts

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Emma B
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:55 PM

whorst club act?

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:55 PM

I think you can have a rubbish night at a good club, and a good night at a rubbish club. Its all an bit in the lap of the gods. Some of the best nights I've had have been in clubs where i wouldn't want to suck up to the cruddy denizens as a performer, but they just happened to have booked a brilliant guest.

Similarly you can go to a brilliant club and some lunatic will think of an ingenious way of sodding up the whole evening for everybody.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 02:01 PM

I once went to one where absolutely everybody was wearing swirly panchromatic trousers.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 02:02 PM

The Wurst Club

Charlotte R (also GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:54 PM )

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 02:24 PM

gotta be the best German meal....aufschnitt.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 04:39 PM

Derby County

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 04:56 PM

LOL we gave them a good lickin on Saturday :-) Not that it is anything to gloat about. Derby County are so bad