BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings

Subject: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: josepp
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 03:10 PM

LANCASTER COUNTY - A large rectangular craft was reported July 23, 1999, resting on the ground at 11:31 PM. The craft was approximately 150 feet long and 50 feet wide with windows and antenna. The witness stated, "About midnight I decided to begin driving back to Philadelphia from my aunt's house in rural Lancaster County. When I went out side to leave, I saw a huge object sitting in a field directly across from her front door. It was as big as a football field judging by the nearby trees.

"The craft lit up like daylight with lights all around the bottom and windows with bright bluish/white light inside. At first I thought someone had put up a large 'double wide' mobile home in the couple hours I was visiting my aunt. Then I realized the object was larger than any mobile home, and would be as large as four of these put end to end. I also noticed a number of antennas and other 'garbage' sticking and jutting out from the top and sides.

"I ran back inside. My aunt came out and was a bit shaken by all this. I was pretty scared too, but I was intrigued. It was just weird. We watched for ten minutes as the craft began making a very low sound. Like a buzzing wire that isn't plugged into the stereo correctly, but with more variation in pitch and allot deeper. You could feel the vibration in the pit of your stomach and my aunt felt sick.

"The craft then began to lift off the ground and turn. I could clearly see it was a rectangle as it slowly turned its narrower side towards us. The craft turned off some of its lights and began moving steadily upward in an awkward wobbling motion, almost as if it was too heavy to support its own weight. We were not that far away when the sound became more intense.

"My aunt went back inside for fear that the craft might crash. It managed to lift off vertically and turn itself 90 degrees after reaching about three times the height of the tops of the trees. Then for about 25 to 45 seconds it began shaking wildly. It began to accelerate like the space shuttle, but only with that low humming sound not a rocket's roar.

"After it started shooting upwards it was nearly out of sight within 10 minutes, becoming nothing more than a slowly moving star. I called the local TV station and they knew nothing about it and suggested I call the sheriff's department. I did and they said they had a couple reports of odd lights in the sky and they passed them to MUFON. Afterwards, I was firmly shocked.

"I have never believed in this stuff until now and I feel we are about to be taken over. I got a very 'sinister' feeling from that object. Like it was scouting for a place to set up operations in the future or something. I felt it was a giant processing center."

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: josepp
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 03:12 PM

While it is certainly possible that the above witness made up a sighting based on the following, it doesn't seem likely and, if he did not, what do we make of both sightings?

This earlier incident took place during the time that the vast section of the Midwest was under one of the most extensive and disturbing UFO flaps ever recorded which occurred in the mid-70s. From Maine to Virginia to Michigan to Montana to Nebraska to New Mexico were record reports of UFO sightings, phantom helicopters, cattle mutilations and incidents like the following from Fawcett's and Greenwood's 1984 book, "Clear Intent":

January 21, 1976 – 2100hrs – 12 miles outside Fairfield, Montana. Bill Link (pseudonym) stated to investigators that he and his wife, a brother, his two sons and a daughter saw on that night. The following are excerpts from Link's statement to the police:

We first spotted them from the house. My boy saw them first just as we turned in to go into the house…It didn't look strange to me. My wife, boy and little girl stayed out, and pretty soon she said, "Come out, Bill. Look at these. They're really funny!" So I went out there, and by this time there is a row of trees down the road about three-quarters of a mile. Well, by this time, these lights were coming back and forth out from behind this row of trees. And they appeared at the time to be landing in the field and taking off and landing in the field and so forth. So we watched them for quite a while, probably twenty minutes, there with the field glasses on. About this time we saw two red blinkers down on the highway and I said, "Well, somebody has reported it to the sheriff or somebody is out there now with a patrol car watching them, so we'll go down too." So I think I took the two boys and jumped in the pickup and as we turned the corner off our approach on the main highway, why, these red things that we thought were patrol cars, they then floated off the highway over this field, still blinking or they were then. So we drove on down there and then, as we approached the field where they had went, why we saw this structure that looked like a hotel. A two-story hotel sitting out there in the field and the other lights were grouped around it. About four sets of lights grouped around it.

[The object that resembled a hotel] had a rectangular shape, you could see the outline of it. You couldn't see the outline till you put the field glasses on. [Link stated he was about 500 yards from the object.] Then you could see the dark outline.

There were, there were lights, windows, I'd say about…there were two rows of those and they appeared to be probably, oh, five to six feet high, and maybe two or three feet wide. With no…that is standing on end like this….Single pane windows. No divisions at all in them.

…[T]hey were the full length of the machine. Well, they come about…they were…there was none in the exact corner of it. They started in a ways from each end of it. In the meantime, these other lights seemed to be kind of affiliated with it, 'cause they grouped around it. They would come up close to it and then they would leave, hover about it, and rapidly change places, and then they would appear to set down right in the stubble and then they would…some of them would die down to a very dim light and then we would watch them for a while and they would flare right back up very brilliantly…

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 03:18 PM

>>While it is certainly possible that the above witness made up a sighting based on the following, it doesn't seem likely and, if he did not, what do we make of both sightings?<<


If by "we" you mean you and me, one of us doesn't give a crap.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 03:30 PM

Man the barricades! It's the Borg!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 03:30 PM

Two of us, Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 03:33 PM

To inject a musical note, attention is directed to the well-known line about:

"...the tallest ladder I ever tried to climb."

John

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 04:02 PM

Ah, but you'd give a crap if you were there, wouldn't you, Jack?

"Can it possibly be real if I haven't seen it?" says the skeptic, the guy who apparently already knows all he wants to know, the guy who wasn't there. Yes, it can! It may be real. That remains to be determined.

I saw some apparently alien vehicles in the late 60s, and I gave a crap. You would too if you'd seen them. They did not at all resemble the ones in the above reports. I find such reports veru interesting, but I draw no final conclusions from them at this time.

I am always puzzled by the intransigence of people who react negatively to anything they don't already believe in and take for granted. Do they feel threatened? Or do they just have a very limited capacity for attention to anything they didn't think of themselves?

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: josepp
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 04:25 PM

My interest in the reports derives from the unusual aspect of them and yet others report the same thing when it seems highly unlikely that one was copying the other. Sure, that could be the case but the likelihood of it is questionable. I have no interest in cases that are utterly unique but when you have numerous reports that are highly unusual and yet similar to one another and there is virtually no chance that the witnesses were copying from any of the others, you have admit that something is going on that can't be explained as hoax, delusion or mass hysteria.

I also have no interest in people who claim threads as this are interesting. Think what you want, I don't care. But I do have to question why you participate since your input is negligible.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 04:26 PM

>>Ah, but you'd give a crap if you were there, wouldn't you, Jack?<<

No, not really.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 04:40 PM

Oh...yes, you would. Trust me. It shakes people up at a very deep level when they see things they cannot recognize, fathom or explain. No one is immune to being affected by such an incident. I had absolutely no belief in or interest in "alien" vehicles prior to the first sighting I had. Afterward, I was very interested and have remained so. I've only had 2 such sightings in 62 years of life...but have read a great many accounts of other sightings and have spoken to many people personally who've had sightings...including civil air personnel.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 04:46 PM

Last night I had the strangest dream
I'd ever dreamed before--

Come now, nibble a little peyote and really see some oddities.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 05:05 PM

Nope, I've seen lots of things I couldn't recognize or explain. (most of it people mind you ;-)) I just leave it at that. Now if they were to offer me gold or the plans and patents to alien high tech, or even a ride, I might be excited.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: josepp
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 05:10 PM

Things like that will change you. One of my brothers is a hard-headed, hands-on type of guy. He's not given to flights of fancy and has shown no real interest in unexplained phenomena. He's the type who likes to work with his hands rather than his head. Back in the early 90s, I was trying my luck with EVP or electronic voice phenomenon. If you record static off the radio or TV or even listen to the natural noise of a piece analog recording tape, you might hear voices said to be those of the dead. Sometimes they even say their names. I got interested in it after reading a book by Konstantin Raudive. I recorded a lot of static but never heard anything. I decided there was nothing to it. I explained it to my brother but he expressed very minimal interest.

About 4 years ago, he called me up and asked if I had ever experimented with taping static to hear voices of the dead. He seemed to remember me doing this. I said yes but that I never heard anything. He said he ran across an article on it and he and his wife tried it out. They recorded some wash off the TV and were listening back. They didn't notice anything. The next day, though, he came home from work and his wife told him there was one little instant in the tape where she thought she heard a voice saying, "Ferguson."

They listened to the tape again and at the designated spot, my brother said there did indeed seem to be a voice. He listened to it several times but thought is was saying "Jurgenson." It was saying something before that but he couldn't make it out. He kept playing it back and listening and he thought the voice was saying, "Friedrich Jurgenson." His wife typed the same into a search engine and they found out to their astonishment that Friedrich Jurgenson was the very founder of EVP! He was shocked out of his wits and called me on the phone and his voice was shaking and he was stuttering. I'd never heard him that way before. I know my brother and he wasn't faking. He couldn't have learned the name from me because I didn't even recognize the name. If he had said the voice announced he was Raudive, I would suspect that maybe he heard it from me some years before and it surfaced in his mind some years later (although I was pronouncing it wrong). I never mentioned Jurgenson to him and didn't even know who he was myself. I only had a passing interest in EVP which I promptly wrote off and this back around '90 or '91.

I saw my brother a couple of weeks later and asked him about it. He said he found an EVP forum online and wrote of his experience there. When he checked the next day, there were several responses all saying, "So you heard it too?"

He is now a firm believer in EVP and truly believes ol' Jurgenson's spirit was communicating to him. Now, I don't care if anyone believes his story although I've never known my brother to ever have any interest in this kind of thing before but he definitely believes it and it has changed him profoundly in that aspect. He even says he never would have believed it if someone else told him the same story he told me and would have written it off as overactive imagination. He not only now believes it but has an intense interest in the subject--something that never would have happened without an experience to motivate him.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 05:45 PM

Willie the Weeper - verse II.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 06:05 PM

"And on the way home you'll look into the sky once more and notice 5 orange lights all moving very, very slowly, first in a row, then above each other, then below, then back in a row..and you'll tell yourself that they're just planes stacking up for Exeter Airport, but then you'll notice that there are no landing lights showing on any of them, unlike the plane that has just whizzed past in front of them...and you'll pull over in Ottery St. Mary car park, get out and watch those five orange stars suddenly rise higher and higher, faster and faster, all at exactly the same time, until they become the tiniest of dots..and then they'll just disappear all together from the naked eye...and you'll get back in the car....not the slightest bit worried or spooked...but left with a sense of deep understanding that some things can never quite be explained....."


I wrote that on the BBC F&A board, 5 years back now, in August 2005, as the end to my post about 'Beautiful Days' festival which is held in Escot Park, East Devon, just down the road from Sidmouth...

It is exactly what I saw, exactly what happened. From that moment on I changed my mind about UFOs and I stopped thinking somewhat arrogantly, that we are all alone in the Universe.

It was amazing to see, truly amazing.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 06:16 PM

It's a shame cameras are so scarce and cumbersome, otherwise people might be able to produce credible evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: josepp
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 06:26 PM

So, smokey, name for us a photograph or piece of film of a UFO that you accept as genuine.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 06:32 PM

Either the subtlety of your question eludes me or you've completely misunderstood my comment..

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 06:45 PM

"It's a shame cameras are so scarce and cumbersome, otherwise people might be able to produce credible evidence."

I never carry a camera with me, and my mobile phone is...just a phone, which I can barely figure out anyway.

There was no bigger sceptic than I, Smokey, but I know that I saw something pretty darn unusual that night, as did my children and their father, for they were all in the car as well..

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 06:54 PM

Not getting at you, Lizzie, lots of people have seen stuff, it was just a general comment which happened to be after your post.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 06:56 PM

Tens of thousands of photos and a great many films have been taken of what may have been alien vehicles. The standard reaction of the skeptic is to reject the photo or film as "a fake", thereby maintaining his negative faith on the subject.

I know of no skeptic who was ever convinced by anything except a direct encounter with what he thought didn't exist or an official statement by Big Brother. Photos mean nothing to such people nor do films. The only thing they would accept, short of a direct experience of their own, would be an official declaration by the government and media that aliens exist and are visiting us. They trust Big Brother, apparently. I find that funny and sad at the same time! ;-) Big Brother is one of the least trustworthy sources you can find out there, because what Big Brother does has to do with holding onto money and power...NOT keeping you and me accurately informed about anything.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: josepp
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 06:58 PM

///Either the subtlety of your question eludes me or you've completely misunderstood my comment..///

There are a huge number of photographs and film footage of UFOs and it's obvious from your comment that you don't accept any of them. And that's fine, I don't either. But then don't turn around and ask why no one produces photographic evidence that you know very well you're not going to accept.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 07:01 PM

Point me at some, and please don't make assumptions about me.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: josepp
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 07:29 PM

There are literally thousands of photographs online--take your pick.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 07:54 PM

Kindly bugger off to www.rate-my-schizo-delusion.com or somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 08:26 PM

Just show me one clear picture - that's all I ask.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 08:42 PM

5 orange lights all moving very, very slowly, first in a row, then above each other, then below, then back in a row..and you'll tell yourself that they're just planes stacking up for Exeter Airport, but then you'll notice that there are no landing lights showing on any of them, unlike the plane that has just whizzed past in front of them...and you'll pull over in Ottery St. Mary car park, get out and watch those five orange stars suddenly rise higher and higher, faster and faster, all at exactly the same time, until they become the tiniest of dots..and then they'll just disappear all together from the naked eye..

Lizzie - I've seen any amount of such lights in the skies these last few nights - they are, of course, Chinese Lanterns. We watched a formation of 8 earlier on doing pretrty much what you describe above.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 09:24 PM

For some reasons we haven't even seen fireflies here in Maine for a couple of years.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 12:18 AM

Why does this BS section here attract so many 'conspiracy theory' proponents?

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Smokey.
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 12:36 AM

Is that a euphemism?

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 03:47 AM

"Lizzie - I've seen any amount of such lights in the skies these last few nights - they are, of course, Chinese Lanterns. We watched a formation of 8 earlier on doing pretrty much what you describe above."


Sorry, I strongly disagree with you on this one. I'm well aware of Chinese Lanterns, one almost set my tree on fire last year.(they look pretty but they're dangerous things)

These were five lights, exactly one underneath each other, in a line. Chinese lanters don't form into straight lines or formations, you know...they don't 'all meet up in a certain place' even if they're let off into the sky at the same time. These were bright, large lights which stayed very close to one another, even when they were moving direction. And when they started to disappear they went upwards, straight upwards, staying in that same line. All four of us watched it happen..we'd pulled over because we couldn't believe what we were seeing and wanted to watch more closely...We watched them change their pattern, then re-form back into line...spellbound...

They moved upwards slowly at first, then faster and faster, ALL at exactly the same time...Whoosh! and within seconds they were gone. They ascended fast, keeping their line exactly. It was a very clear night, there were no clouds to be seen, just stars...so our eyes could see far up into the sky....but they disappeared in no time at all, unlike a plane that you eye can keep track of for quite some time in a clear sky...or a 'chinese lantern' being carried on the wind..The speed with which they suddenly disappeared was scary to be honest...

I told you that a plane went past them, and that had the flashing landing lights you'd expect to see, but this was something very different, Suibhne.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 05:00 AM

Chinese lanters don't form into straight lines or formations, you know...they don't 'all meet up in a certain place' even if they're let off into the sky at the same time.

One of the truly amazing thing with Chinese Lanterns is that they follow the winds in formations. Even in pairs they're an impressive sight, moving with a very particular purpose, altering speeds and ascending in perfect co-ordination and appearing to meet up in one place, depending on your point of view. Like I say, we watched a squadron of maybe 8 of them last night over Fleetwood and the effect was quite mesmerising but then again were used to seeing them - some people still report them as UFOs, which on a subjective level of course they are, until you know what they are. Nothing you've said here suggests otherwise.

UFOlore operates as part wild-fire folklore and part religious orthodoxy. I've been fascinated with it since childhood (likewise Ghostlore, Christianlore, Paganlore, Fairylore Green Man-lore etc. etc.) but have yet to be convinced that there's any basis to any of it other than the human need to believe. In the end it all comes down to subjective experience on the one hand (which is always mundane) and objective interpretation of that experience on the other - which is where the folklore kicks in. On QI the other night it was asked how is it that whenever anyone draws an alien, they invariably draw the classic Grey? Do Greys actually exist? Or is it because they are a folkloric figment of our collective cultural imaginations? If human history tells us anything it's that we have an amazing capacity for making stuff up & convining ourselves it is real. There are no flying saucers*, just random lights in the sky becoming figments of our collective imaginations, and all the more fascinating because of it.

* Not yet anyway, but if they ever did get here we'll know about it, for better or (more likely) for worse. Meanwhile - keep watching the skies!

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 06:33 AM

The lights I saw were not lanterns..but if you prefer to think otherwise, please feel free to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 07:02 AM

This is interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvx4Dnu-NDU

These are obviously Chinese Lanterns yet the faithful need to believe they're something more. Lots of other examples up there, but this is exactly what Chinese lanterns do.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 09:01 AM

Sometime between 1977 and 1979... my then husband and I one night, were approaching Charleston WV from some distance, when we both saw a really strange orange lighted object, oblong in shape, hovering over the cityscape. Then driving into a dip on the highway, the view of city and the object could no longer be seen, obscured by hills, trees. We just shrugged and didn't think more about it, until we got close enough to Charleston to pick up a local station on the car radio, which was abuzz with reported similar sightings.

Wonder if it was something to do with this Mothman

Never saw anything before that and never since. And that is all I'll say on the matter of "visitors."

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: josepp
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 11:49 AM

////On QI the other night it was asked how is it that whenever anyone draws an alien, they invariably draw the classic Grey? Do Greys actually exist? Or is it because they are a folkloric figment of our collective cultural imaginations? If human history tells us anything it's that we have an amazing capacity for making stuff up & convining ourselves it is real. There are no flying saucers*, just random lights in the sky becoming figments of our collective imaginations, and all the more fascinating because of it.////

You make the same mistake as believers: UFOs are piloted by aliens from other dimensions or beings from other planets. An idiot should know that cannot be true. But there are UFOs and they ain't no Chinese lanterns.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 11:58 AM

Sorry, Lizzie, they were Chinese lanterns. Possibly let off by Seth Lakeman and Show of Hands, but still Chinese lanterns.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 11:59 AM

On what basis would you assume that it is impossible for aliens from other dimensions or beings from other planets to visit us? Are other dimensions impossible? How do you know? Are aliens on other planets impossible? How do you know? Is faster than light speed impossible? How do you know? Is it impossible that aliens might have developed a means of interplanetary or intergalactic travel which we don't know anything about yet? How do you know?

What do you base your certainty of a stated impossibility upon? Seems to me that it stands on a platform of conventional assumptions and nothing else whatsoever. Every society stands on a platform of conventional assumptions. Just look back through history. Those assumptions have, again and again, been proven wrong through new discoveries...yet each succeeding generation pats itself on the back in the certainty that it now KNOWS THE SCORE! Ha! Ha! The vanity of man, I call it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 12:32 PM

Lizzie, if you had paid attention in stead of daydreaming about Lady Guinevere at school, maybe you'd be able to use a phone.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 12:34 PM

I thought she was daydreaming about Sean Connery...

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 01:11 PM

For me it comes down to one thing. Why would someone travel hundreds of light years and then show themselves only to some and in such a vague way?

It just isn't plausible.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 01:56 PM

Why do we travel into the depths of jungles, the deep ocean, and inhospitable deserts, and wretchedly cold mountaintops, to show ourselves only to some (animals) or to no one at all! .... and in such a brief way?

Because we want to know, that's why! ;-) We want to go where we haven't been and see what's there. That doesn't mean we stay for very long.

When a scientist or an avian hobbyist goes to the jungle to look at birds, he doesn't show himself to every damn bird in the whole jungle! He looks at a few birds, his curiosity is satisfied, his data is written down, some photos are taken, and then he leaves.

Gosh! It just isn't plausible, is it? ;-D

If one can travel hundreds of light years, that would mean thousands of possible planets to visit. Maybe hundreds of thousands of possible planets. Maybe millions. How long would one spend looking at each one? Well, maybe not long, but one would probably be most interesting in those places that had observable forms of life on them, I would think.

Why is it so hard to understand why others would do what we would do immediately...if we only had the capability to. We don't at present. All we've managed to do is to go very briefly to the Moon and to put some little unmanned vehicles on or near a few other nearby planets.

We're rank beginners at space travel. Yet many people seem to think we're the only ones doing it. That is what just isn't plausible.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: josepp
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 02:35 PM

I've gone over in previous threads why no aliens are visiting us from other realms whether planetary or dimensional. The flying buildings, if they are factual, could certainly be something built by our government. The light wheels in the ocean I can't say but I haven't ruled out natural phenomena. It doesn't have to be anything revolving, it could simply be an illusion of it. I don't bother with photos and footage of UFOs because it's so easy to fake. There might be a few that can't be explained but I don't have the patience or resources to try and root them out. I think everybody can agree there are machines the govt has that we don't know about but that we are bound to see from time to time and that the govt isn't going to say, "Yes, those are ours." They have a vested interest in keeping ET going. In fact, I believe the govt started it with the Roswell incident. The best way for the govt to keep it going is to constantly deny it or simply say, "No comment." As soon as they do, we instantly resort to ET again. Talk about being controlled by Big Brother.

If aliens are visiting us, we would have proof of it by now. We have none and will continue to have none because it isn't happening. There are other aspects that could be at play such as Jung's ideas about UFOs. This has been ignored because the public is so heavily infused with ET that they can't think in any other terms. It might be a purely "psychic" phenomenon as I believe to be the case concerning Mothman, the mad gassers, the phantom shooters, etc. in which case we ignore that aspect at our own peril.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 02:55 PM

But there are UFOs and they ain't no Chinese lanterns.

Some are Chinese Lanterns, others are earth lights, eye floaters, air craft, planets, birds, space debris, weather balloons, perhelia, meteorites etc. etc.

Anyway, back to the first Star Trek film on Film 4...

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: josepp
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 03:11 PM

And some are craft built by our own govt. Learn it and accept it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 03:16 PM

Yeah, sure the government has secret vehicles they're not telling us about. That's part of it, all right. I don't think it's all of it.

"If aliens are visiting us, we would have proof of it by now."

I think we have mountains of proof of it by now...MOUNTAINS!...but....if the powers that be don't officially release any of that proof to the public and the media, and deny that it exists, then the public can't see that proof, can they?

Yes, it might be a psychic phenomenon, as you say, but many incidents suggest it is more than that.

Yes, the government might have arranged Roswell, and might be using the ET stuff to misdirect people from other things they're doing.

Those are possibilities. You think they're doing a coverup to distract us with ETs that don't exist? Maybe. I think they're doing a coverup to prevent us believing in ETs that DO exist...because it would massively change public consciousness and threaten the present political status quo. It would make our governments look weak and dishonest and undependable, and they don't want to be seen that way.

You must be able to see that they could have strong reasons for adopting either of those coverup policies.

In the end, though, when it comes to this subject or any other, everyone just believes or favors what they would rather believe or favor, and that's an emotional decision on their part. They interpret info on that basis. I'm not a bit reluctant to admit that I have an emotional bias in favor of a Universe with many intelligent lifeforms living on many worlds, and some that can visit us. I like that idea. If you don't, well...(shrug)...that's up to you. You'll go on believing whatever you want to...and so will I.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: josepp
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 04:18 PM

There isn't any proof because that kind of thing simply can't be kept a secret. I brought up before that Jacques Vallee had fed all the landing data into a computer (he is a computer scientist after all) and calculated how many landings there have to be to make this data comprehensible. The conclusion is that most take place at about 3:00 am in remote areas and are not seen by anyone. It works out to 150,000 landings a year meaning about 3 million over a 20-year span. So the evidence should be overwhelming if this were the case. That aside from the fact that 3 million landings in twoscore years is absurd. Ain't happenin'.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 04:52 PM

"that kind of thing simply can't be kept a secret"

Oh, sure it can. Anything can be kept a secret. Not that you can't prevent some people from talking about it or writing a book about it...but you can certainly prevent the authoritative mainstream from talking about it while they focus obsessively on bullshit like O.J. Simpson or Tiger Woods or the "Surge" in Iraq or whatever.

The public has a very short attention span. You just make sure it's occupied with other things most of the time...and it is.

The evidence is, in fact, absolutely overwhelming by now, but the mainstream authoritative sources (the military, the government, the mass media) simply don't bother recognizing it officially, or announcing it, and that's all that's necessary to keep it "a secret" (meaning it's not precisely a secret in the literal sense of the word, it's just below most people's radar, that's all).

I didn't see "landings". I saw flyovers, and they were not at 3 AM, therefore I gather they're not in Mr Vallee's data. ;-) God knows where he thinks he could get "all the landing data"...from whom, pray tell?

Astronauts, airline pilots, and leaders of countries have spoken about seeing what they believed were alien craft. It's NOT a secret, it's just not paid attention to or officially acknowledged by Big Brother and our the mass media. It's ignored 99% of the time by our mass media, and that effectively keeps it "a secret".

As I said, you're just believing what you want to believe. And so am I. And that's just fine. I don't talk about this stuff because I think it'll make any difference if I do, I just talk about it because I'm interested. Period.

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 05:15 PM

LH:"On what basis would you assume that it is impossible for aliens from other dimensions or beings from other planets to visit us? Are other dimensions impossible? How do you know? Are aliens on other planets impossible?"

Very much to the point, Little Hawk.

According to Michio Kaku, a solidly grounded theoretical physicist (several books such as Parallel Worlds and Physics of the Impossible), it may very well be that there are "multiverses," not just the universe that we know, (about which, as one scientist put in, "we know only about 4% of what we wish we knew."). Multiverses connected like a bunch of grapes, and to a degree in contact (but separated by "branes" or membranes) with each other. And as to the matter of multiple dimensions, current estimate is that there are eleven. Three we know about directly (length, width, depth) and the fourth we have a strong sense of (time).

Michio Kaku and other physicists say that the math exists to prove this.

And there are a number of universities and colleges (such as the nearby University of Washington) and other institutions that have astrobiology departments (also called "exobiology") dedicated to studying the possibility of life on other planets. And these folks are not kooks, they are serious, dedicated scientists in a number of disciplines.

There is also the current search for terrestrial planets orbiting other stars (over a hundred planets located so far, several of which are "terrestrial" or "Goldilocks planets"—not to hot, not too cold, but just right, suitable for life as we know it.)

And there is the SETI project which has been going for some decades now.

And how about the Drake Equation? If you don't know what it is, it might be therapeutic to look it up and learn about it.

Now—my position on this is essentially "agnostic." I don't know if there is intelligent life on other planets. Nor, for that matter, does anyone here! Nor do any of us know that there is not!

Dr. Kaku came up with an interesting speculation. Perhaps what some people have perceived as "paranormal" came as the result of "leakage" from other dimensions or other universes.

Or not.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Mysterious Flying Buildings
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 05:51 PM

"Lizzie, if you had paid attention in stead of daydreaming about Lady Guinevere at school, maybe you'd be able to use a phone."


Nope...

It's quite simple, Richard...my brain doesn't do patterns. Gawd, I worked at The National Trust for near on 2 years, still couldn't fathom out the bloody till...same at my next place, and the one I've just left...and the one I start this week, no doubt, as it's the same 'illogical pattern' which doesn't create any pictures in my head to tell me how to do it..

If you'd paid attention at school you could have learned that all brains are NOT the same, for a reason, but of course, you wouldn't have, even if you had been paying attention,because school wants every brain to think in the same way, be filled with the same information and...of course...to be very, VERY *obedient*, which I think is your favourite word, right?

Oh poo with your Chinese Lanterns, subulimey ridiculous name..I watched those lights for around 30 minutes..unless they were rocket powered lanterns which were vast and lit with a thousand candles inside...which would have made them awful heavy...

Cripes it gets up me nose when folks tell me what I saw, let alone what music I should like or how I should write..

'Obedience' ain't my thing, and that's why I'm sticking out my tongue at all those who apparently know what I saw far better than I do, even though they weren't there...

So there!