BS: America's cup.

Subject: BS: America's cup.
From: Gurney
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 01:13 AM

Modest lot, the Kiwis, eh? Big news here, though.

If you didn't know, Emirates Team New Zealand has won the Louis Voutton cup and so will challenge for the America's Cup shortly.

Some consider it the top match-racing trophy. Yacht racing, that is.

They are called Emirates... because that airline is the principal sponsor.

There were Kiwis aboard every challenger except the Chinese one, and there are some on the defender too. Must be good at it, eh.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 03:42 AM

I remember back in the sixties, Britain's challenger for the Americas Cup was being built at a very small yard in Sandbank Scotland.
The yard was so small that the bow of the boat protruded over the main road. I passed under it most mornings.

Amazing how things have changed....the boat was called "Sceptre" and I don't think she won a race against the American Yacht.

Very good luck to the New Zealanders in the "Americas"...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Schantieman
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 11:19 AM

There's a Nicholson 55 of that vintage (?) and name based at Joint Services at Gosport. Any relation I wonder?

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 06:59 PM

Hi steve must be the same yacht.
She sailed against "Columbia" in the 32nd Americas Cup at Rhode Island.
Built by Alexander Robertson & son. Sandbank.
Designed by David Boyd.
Full details HERE

There were two boat yards in the small town of Sandbank, Robertsons and Morris & Lorimer. Both are now shut down and the land sold for housing development.
Sceptre was a real beauty and although not as fast as the American boat,she could more than hold her own on looks.
I watched her race on the Clyde many times and when she was at top speed (don't know the nautical term) she took your breath away...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 07:07 PM

Sorry Steve it was of course the 17th Americas Cup, Sceptre v Columbia.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:26 PM

I've long liked Tom Paxton's "The Day We Lost The America's Cup" from his "One Million Lawyers" album.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 03:37 AM

If you've ever lived in New Zealand, it's seriously boring - sailing off it is the best thing many Kiwis* do!

(* meaning of course, New Zealanders, not real kiwis, they don't swim. Or sail. Or fly even. They eat worms and lay eggs 2/3rds their own body size.)

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: guitar
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 06:01 PM

i just hope the anyone beats the yanks

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Little Robyn
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 07:14 PM

I don't think there are any Yankees in the running.
I believe there were/are Kiwis in just about every crew, both for the Louis Vuitton Cup and the America's Cup.
But we won't be watching.
Liz, kiwis are boring. Have you heard the definition of a kiwi?
He eats roots, shoots and leaves!
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 05:03 AM

Robyn - that's a panda! Also flightless and endangered, but does not have the shortest beak of the animal kingdom.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 05:20 AM

Where's all the P.C. gang on this thread?
And what have the poor New Zealanders done to deserve such loathing?

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: EBarnacle
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 10:16 AM

They won what we rightly consider our property. AAfter all, we had it for well over a century. Will someone please win it back so Dennis Connor can come out of hiding?

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 10:38 AM

If anyone has the lyrics to Tom Paxton's "The Day We Lost The America's Cup" please post them. I think they'd be quite appropriate here.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Darowyn
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 01:02 PM

Personally I think the Americans cheat!
Calling it the America's Cup, means that they win it even when they lose.
It's like calling the cricket trophy "The Aussie Ashes" (might as well , come to think of it!)
or playing for the "Federer Cup" at Wimbledon.
How would you feel about the "Manchester United Superbowl"?
Cheers
Dave
(Yes, I do know the real reason for the name of the Americas Cup)

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 05:06 PM

Please. Take that "Superbowl" thing. Take all of it. I'm sick of it, so it's all yours.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 02:42 AM

G'day Darowyn,

Keep in mind that the Old Mug was made as "The Victoria's Cup" ... the tin-tanks won it in a race off England - took it back to the US of A ... and then they held "competitions" where the British contender had to be a heavy, ocean-going yacht ... and sail the Atlantic to America unaided ... while the tin-tanks competed with their fastest (just-)off-shore racing yacht - but still fielded the entire New York Yacht Squadron to surround the Poms ... just in case their heavy Atlantic sailor could still beat the local (pale-) blue water lightweight!

I think we Aussies should have stuck to the early suggestion of running the Mug under a steam-roller and renaming the competition "The Australia's Platter"!

Oh yes... and re. "The Aussie Ashes" ... remember that the urn (allegedly) holds the ashes of a cricket stump (and/or a set of bales) - cremated to mark "the death of cricket" ... because the Poms had been beaten by "mere colonials"! ... And, the 'to-and-froms' will only let go of that one at gunpoint ... even when they lose it hands down.

Regard(les)s,

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Darowyn
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 12:16 PM

"To-and-froms" had me puzzled for a while- you even beat the Old Country at rhyming slang now!
May as well give up! (we already have at cricket)
I like the idea of making all the boats sail to the venue though.
Though I feel that Home and Away legs would be only fair.
Are you listening in New Zealand?
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 12:25 PM

I think it should be a REAL race -- Start at Iceland, sail the Northwest Passage, across to Australia, down to NZ, circumnavigate Antarctica, and back to Iceland via the North Sea. Fastest time or sole survivor wins the damned thing.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 06:14 PM

It isn't actually a cup, it is a jug or ewer, and it wasn't actually won by the America, but presented in recognition of a supreme yacht, which sailed the Atlantic and beat all comers, a feat never equalled because, as Bob said, specialist racers beat ocean-going yachts every time.

Nowadays, competitors don't go out in much more than a stiff breeze, and even then they break quite often, once, even into two pieces! Match-racers are the maritime equivalent of dragsters, hugely expensive, highly specialised, and totally bloody useless for anything else.

Rapaire, check out the Volvo round-the-world. I shouldn't think your route is practical for sailing craft, for the fate of Franklin no man can know.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 06:38 PM

The fate of Franklin...yeah. Scurvy, lead poisoning, lack of leadership and just plain stupid stubborness. And there has been a lot of Yupik and Inuit testimony collected about Franklin, his ships, and his men.

Okay, how about this route? Leave Halifax, Nova Scotia and sail North, round the Pole and head South via the Bering Strait, round that Pole and head back to Halifax, NS. Sure, there'll be a few storms and icepacks and things on the way, but it'll see what sort of sailor you ARE.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 07:06 PM

A dead one, I should think. You'd get perhaps two entries. One of them from Ranulf Fiennes.

Cape Stiff and the Cape of Storms not tough enough?

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Grab
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 08:01 AM

I can't see Ellen Macarthur and Pete Goss passing up the chance, somehow. Both raving nutters, and both incredibly brave.

Match-racing in general doesn't do too much for me - I much prefer fleet racing. It's the same way the Tour de France is more interesting than watching two blokes cycle round a velodrome for half an hour. I've never match-raced myself, but I used to love being out on the river when I was a kid, dinghy or cruiser racing.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Schantieman
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 12:35 PM

Akenaton

I am a complete moron. The boat I'm thinking of is Sabre, not Sceptre !

But Sceptre does ring a bell. Maybe I inquired about chartering her sometime?

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 10:28 PM

Just trying to see who's got the best boat and the best seamanship. Which gives me a great idea: they can also sail on the Sea of Tranquility for a weather break.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: EBarnacle
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 09:31 AM

Why not the Sargasso Sea? Getting there is half the fun. Besides, it is in international waters.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 07 - 03:05 PM

It's all on.
We lost the first race but the other guys made a mistake yesterday and so we beat them. One each!
But we need to do that 4 more times.
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: GUEST,Little Robyn
Date: 24 Jun 07 - 03:06 PM

Where'd my cookie go?
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: goatfell
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 07:52 AM

I remember when Australia won the America's cup, and the sore grapes from the American team said that the Australian team cheated, so much for the good old American good sportsmanship, I mean us the Scots, we would just turn around say great you've won Australia we were beating by a better yacht and team.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: EBarnacle
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 09:55 AM

At the time, the winged keel was seen as a radical move. The interpretation of the deed of gift for the cup is that a) there should be no technology used that is not available to everyone and [in theory at least] the boat should be built of materials available in the land of registry. In the case of the winged keel, the race committee evaluated it and ok'd it, which made it legal. It was a technological leap but so were sail tracks and highfield levers in their day of introduction.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 10:14 AM

So where is this race taking place this year, Lake Geneva?

It is a pity that the entry from the States proved so slow. Of course, she might have won if the crew had only remembered to haul up the anchor.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Greg B
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 10:55 AM

Remember when Britton Chance designed a boat that had a
big squared-off underwater section aft, as a contender for
defender?

I think it was 'Latitude 38' that quipped 'Shit, Brit, even
a turd is pointed at both ends!'

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Little Robyn
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 03:50 PM

'So where is this race taking place this year, Lake Geneva?'

Off the coast of Spain, at Valencia. And the weather/winds have been a factor, I believe. If the winds are lighter, the NZ/Emirates boat has a good chance of beating anyone but if the wind is strong and the seas a bit rough, then it's not so good.
Our boat is called Black Magic so maybe we have a chance of winning back the cup - it's good for tourism down here.
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 05:10 PM

Thanks, Robyn, for the location update. I suspected that the Swiss were unable to make a compelling case for Lake Geneva. No doubt if they could have nailed that location they might have been tempted to require competing boats to sail to the race site.

We get very little coverage of these races in the States, no doubt related to the demise of our boat, but in addition there just isn't much of an appeal to the average sports fan who prefers watching football or hockey players mash each other into jelly pulp.

Maybe if sail racing were more of a "contact sport" interest would be increased. I would think that adding a ram under the bow might add interest.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 12:01 AM

G'day Charley,,\

Well... we could revive the Sydney Harbour racing style of the early 20th century - up to WW 2. This had classes all the way from 6 footers to 18 footers... which were built like mediaeval warships. The 18 footers carried 3000 square foot of sail ... and needed a football team to ballance them ... until the last run toi the line... when the footbsllers all jumped overboard and swam to shore!

Regards(les)s,

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: open mike
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 12:07 AM

is this a thread about bras? it is right next to the underwear thread.
boxers and briefs...

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Little Robyn
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 01:09 AM

Hi Charley, if you wanted to follow it, here's a link to the NZ Herald
that should keep you up to date.
They had a rest day yesterday but there should be more action tonight.
Cheers,
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Gurney
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 03:40 AM

Greg B, of course turds are pointed. It is a good design, otherwise your backside would slam shut.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: EBarnacle
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 08:44 AM

Great link, thanks LR.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Little Robyn
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 04:09 PM

Two down, three to go!
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:46 PM

Unfortunately the link to New Zealand newspapers doesn't work for Safari. But I'll see if I can Goggle up my own link.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:50 PM

This link works for me: Click here for a good time!

Wow! What a race!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: jeffp
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 11:21 AM

Tied 2-2 now. The Swiss led all the way after a 1-second advantage at the start.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: EBarnacle
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 09:56 AM

Awri...It's all tied up after 4 and all the races have been within a minute. Now that's match racing.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 03:15 PM

Thanks for the update! We won't get this news in our papers in the States for a week or so...

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Greg B
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 03:38 PM

Charley, EBarnacle's in Brooklyn, which is the United States.

The Cup is being covered live on cable television here, and
all the results are posted on the various news web sites like
CNN.com and MSNBC.com

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: jeffp
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 04:57 PM

www.americascup.com has official coverage. I was listening to live commentary at work yesterday morning. The internet is a wondrous thing.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 09:11 PM

Greg-

Perhaps I should further qualify my remarks that my mirning paper, the Portland Press Herald, has been know to ignore exciting things such as international yacht races.

Now if the crews would beat each other up with boathooks, or shot cannon balls at each other,our media's interest might be provoked!

But since when was Brooklyn considered part of the United States? My brother lives there and he and his neighbors consider it a separate nation, if not another planet.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: EBarnacle
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 11:45 AM

It is a separate nation, nay, a separate world, which may have something to do with why I live in Basking Ridge, NJ, right now.
PS, I think Charley actually knew that, though. EB
Race 5: 19 sec--even after NZ blew their spinnaker and lost the lead and the race! Wow, that's evenly matched! Great crews and great boats.

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 05:19 PM

"Split their spinnaker!" Now that's a lovely line for a commemorative song.

And I understand they had trouble sending a 2nd spinnacker up. Maybe if they had had a shantysinger aboard they would have done better.

So according to my fingers that makes the score Swiss 3/NZ 2.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: America's cup.
From: Greg B
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 05:36 PM

Gee, Eric, were it for a year or three, we'd have been
nearly neighbors (you were at my former house in Millington
at least once, I believe).