BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??

Subject: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 10:45 AM

One of the guys I work with found a huge diamond ring at a festival yesterday. He pocketed it and plans on keeping it without trying to find the owner. Strangely enough, two weeks ago, a woman came into the Portland Harbor Museum with a large diamond ring she had found in the parking lot. She wanted the museum's help in returning it.

When I pointed out to him (he is in the process of trying to find an affordable diamond for his engagemment) that if his fiance had lost it he would want it returned, he (and all the men around) looked at me as if I was crazy. One actually said that the person who lost the ring did something to deserve "bad Karma" and they deserved to lose the ring.

So...finders keepers losers weepers?

He has agreed to hold on to the ring for two weeks if I will watch the papers for an ad asking for its return. No ad and he will keep the ring.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 10:49 AM

I'll bet he shoplifted as a kid and his parents never made him take it back and apologise to the storeowner. What a creep. The joke would be on him if it turned out not to be a real diamond!

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 10:51 AM

In UK law his actions would be deemed to be theft.
Tell him he's a thief. And a shithouse.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: bobad
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 10:53 AM

I'm sure justifications can be made for either action, the one chosen speaks much to the character of the individual.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 11:04 AM

You might want to print this and give it to him, Mary:

Chapter 21: LOST GOODS AND STRAY BEASTS

§1051. Duty of finder of money or goods worth $3 or more
Whoever finds lost money or goods of the value of $3 or more shall, if the owner is unknown, within 7 days give notice thereof in writing to the clerk of the town where the money or goods are found and post a notification thereof in some public place in said town. If the value is $10 or more, the finder, in addition to the notice to the town clerk and the notification to be posted, shall, within one month after finding, publish a notice thereof in some newspaper published in the town, if any, otherwise in some newspaper published in the county.

§1053. Appraisal if value $10 or more
Every finder of lost goods or stray beasts of the value of $10 or more shall, within 2 months after finding and before using them to their disadvantage, procure a warrant from the town clerk or a notary public, directed to 2 persons appointed by said clerk or notary, not interested except as inhabitants of the town, returnable at said clerk's office within 7 days from its date, to appraise said goods under oath. [1995, c. 227, §2 (amd).]
PL 1995, Ch. 227, §2 (AMD).

§1054. Restitution to appearing owner; money or goods
If the owner of such lost money or goods appears within 6 months, and if the owner of such stray beasts appears within 2 months after said notice to the town clerk and gives reasonable evidence of ownership to the finder, the owner shall have restitution of them or the value of the money or goods, paying all necessary charges and reasonable compensation to the finder for keeping, to be adjudged by the district court, if the owner and finder cannot agree. [1995, c. 227, §3 (amd).]
PL 1995, Ch. 227, §3 (AMD).

§1056. Finder's rights when no owner appears
If no owner appears within 6 months, such money or lost goods shall belong to the finder by paying 1/2 their value after deducting all necessary charges to the treasurer of said town; but if he neglects to pay it on demand, it may be recovered in an action brought by said treasurer in the name of the town.

§1058. Failure to give notice; penalty
If the finder of lost money or goods of the value of $3 or more or if the person taking up such stray beast neglects to give notice to the town clerk and to cause them to be advertised as provided, he forfeits to the owner the full value thereof unless he delivers or accounts therefor to the owner, in which case he shall forfeit not more than $20, 1/2 to the town and 1/2 to the prosecutor.

Also, THIS

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 11:10 AM

In this country, stealing is defined by intent. If you take something that doesn't belong to you and you don't intend to return it, it's stealing.
I don't know about Karma, but I do know about character, and he has none.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 11:26 AM

Sinsull--the person who found that ring is gonna have lots of bad karma, as he seems to believe in that, for not trying to find the ring's rightful owner, or turning it over to the proper authorities. I hope you don't number this person among your friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Paul Burke
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 11:32 AM

Watch your wallet when that bastard's around. I lost all respect for a former friend when we went to a kid's theme park, and her daughter found a purse, obviously a kid's, containing about 30 pounds. I suggested that she should hand it to the management (and get a receipt). No way- she encouraged her daughter to keep it, and no amount of appealing to her about the feelings of someone else's daughter who had lost it helped.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 11:37 AM

I was all alone here in my shock at the finders keepers losers weepers attitude. The young man in question is such an upstanding Duddly Do Right guy that I didn't know what to think. I am very disappointed in him and he knows it. He is embarrassed as is everyone else. If I find an ad for the ring in the papers i will quietly give it to him and walk away.

Part of me thought that maybe I was over reacting because of the theft of all my jewelry. I keep thinking of the young woman who has to tell her fiance that the ring is gone.

Honestly, I hope it turns out to be worthless junk.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 12:07 PM

Bad way to start an engagement, let alone a marriage. I seriously would print out those laws and give them to him. Those are from the State of Maine. Old and obscure, but still the law.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 12:17 PM

Finders keepers, sure, but you should make a good-faith effort to return anything with sentimental value.

One assumes anything worth any money has sentimental value.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Peace
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 12:22 PM

Give it to the police. If they don't locate the owner within a certain period of time ownership will be transferred to the finder (I think).

I have taken some bicycles to the police station. They call me three months later and I go down and assign ownership of the found bike to various organizations or kids who can't afford bikes.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 12:34 PM

Ask him what he plans to do if his fiance has "her" ring recognized by its former owner.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 12:43 PM

File a report in the paper that a ring was found, or call the police and tell them you know of a ring that was found and not turned in. See what happens.

If you find money on the ground, small denominations, I don't think there is a problem with keeping it--unless you saw it fall you'll never know where it came from. But larger amounts (I won't try to define small vs large) should entail a trip to the police station. They are supposed to return the found item to the finder if it isn't claimed.

If you ride the bus every day and find money at the bus stop, a general "did you lose anything yesterday" inquiry should happen, whether asking fellow riders or posting a note at the bus stop. There are lots of people who can't afford to lose even small amounts of cash or personal items.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 12:44 PM

I did mention that a diamond that size has a pedigree and if he tries to have it reset in a legitimate jewelry shop, he may find it confiscated.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Leadfingers
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 12:49 PM

The guy is a Pillock Du Premier Cru , as an old mate of mine was wont to say !

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 01:29 PM

Money is the most important thing in the world to this type of asswipe. I'm glad I don't know him.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 01:49 PM

Wow. What a way to begin a new life. Every time he sees that ring on her hand he will be reminded of his greed and perfidy. He has failed himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Wesley S
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 01:56 PM

I think if the "finder" asks his fiance if she wants the ring under these circumstances he'll get his answer. "Gee honey - I FOUND this ring - and it didn't cost us anything at all. Wear it with pride!!"

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 02:01 PM

The guy's a scumbag. Period.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Peace
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 02:08 PM

I read a while back about someone who found some bags of maney (Canada). He/she (you can see I didn't read it very closely) took it to the police who waited (I can't recall if it was three or six months). Anyway, no one claimed it. The money went to the finder. (I expect they thought there might be illegal dealings involved and that was why no one claimed it.) The folk got a chunk of change, free and clean.

A diamond ring--if it is indeed diamond--can be real expensive. And I may have some seriously sentimental value to the person who lost it. It would be nice if the young man took it to the police.

Oh, I found a Mercedes today. I can figure out why the doors were locked and there was no key in the ignition. However, it runs just fine.

Signed,

Jimmy the Finger

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 02:11 PM

He does not plan to give the ring to his fiance. They have chosen and ordered a ring. But he does plan to keep the found ring or sell it. We'll see.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 02:12 PM

I worked for many years in retail stores where finding valuables dropped on the floor or left on the counter by customers was an almost daily occurence. It would have been easy to deny having found something when a customer returned to ask about it, but I never did. I figure I got more benefit from their gratitude than I would have gotten by lying and keeping the loot.

If there's a Hell, I may go there, but it won't be for having kept some schmuck's dropped $50.00 bill or left-behind sunglasses.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 02:37 PM

I don't suppose there's any appeal to his greed in the thought that someone might offer a reward, is there?

My kids found a wallet with money in it, in the park one time. They took it to the police. When the owner got it back, they left a nice monetary reward for my kids. Good lesson.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 02:46 PM

well, my wife lost her wedding ring on Hornby Island a couple of years ago, I sure would like to have it back.
It had a first nations (Haida) engraving on it (Ivan Thompson).
Its not worth a huge amount but a lot to us.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 03:10 PM

The ring is gold; the diamond synthetic. Not worth much money-wise but who knows what it means to its owner.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 03:19 PM

Does he get into to town from the backwoods hills very often?

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 03:28 PM

How's this ...

And I am deadly serious ...

First, sit down with yourself and decide whether you would particularly want a friend who would do this ...

Then, if you decide that you wouldn't ... give him a choice ... hand the ring over to the cops or lose you.

If he chooses to go with the ring, that presumably means he isn't any kind of friend ...

In which case shop him to the cops.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 03:38 PM

The price of gold has gone up so much that this ring could still have a fair value.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 03:48 PM

It isn't really the price or value but simply the principle of the whole thing. In this fockin' jadrool we got the real thing in a broke-dick mamalucca and I'd tell him so.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Hawker
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 03:51 PM

I wear a 1.3 carat solitaire diamond ring. The diamond itself was found around 100 years ago by my Father's Great Aunt, in a hotel bedroom in Torquay, England. She was a regular guest at the hotel and handed it in. the following visit, she was handed the diamond by the owner, who told her that the police had not had anyone claim it, they suspected that it was lost possibly by diamond thieves, but could prove nothing and it was now her property. It has been handed down through the family ever since as a good luck charm. Yous see if you REALLY believe in Karma, by offering it back, you are doing the RIGHT thing, and good will come to you.....Great Aunt Gertrude got the stone back and sunsequently had it set in a simple ring setting. By not handing the found ring in, your friend may well attract BAD karma and with all the bad thoughts we have all sent him, he is already building a tidal wave of negativity which will do hom NO GOOD at all.
POX on him indeed, If I were his 'fiancee' I would dump him!
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 04:32 PM

In this case, clearly the finder is also a loser.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: jeffp
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 04:54 PM

Well said, Kendall.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 05:14 PM

I am so disappointed with him and he knows it.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 06:35 PM

Leave a Bible on his desk...

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 07:48 PM

Or some of the 10 commandments....

"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's ass...

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 10:46 PM

What a sad thing -- how can he live with himself knowing if he does this, someone out there will do something similar to him, or his kids.....it sounds so corny but if you treat everyone as you would like to be treated, I think you cannot go far wrong.......

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 08:35 AM

Has anybody actually told his fiancée - who has (or soon will have) a meaningful ring of her own to treasure - that he has done this? Has he said anything about it to her or is he ashamed to? (Or pretending he has - you can't trust a thief not to also lie about this.) Or: does she approve?

It would be interesting to see his reaction if you "threaten" (even jokingly) to tell her.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 10:26 AM

Kendall, I don't think it's her ass he's coveting....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Bee
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 11:34 AM

Chiming in with 'the guy's a loser and has the morals of a thief'. And I don't need a Bible to tell me it's wrong to keep something that doesn't belong to you. It is understandable to covet something valuable that you have found, but thinking of how the person who lost it might feel should encourage any decent person to hand the item in right away.

It doesn't matter how small it is, either. The worst-feeling theft I experienced in my life was only twelve dollars, but in the situation I was in at the time, that twelve dollars was as meaningful as twelve hundred. I went hungry because of that theft.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 05:28 PM

Do you suppose this new Mudcatter "Fruitloopz" will read this thread and understand it? In case not, or in case the rest didn't see it, this fellow claims to have found the lost property of Zantzinger, the same fellow in Dylan's song. That thread was closed after he gushed that he just couldn't stand to return the camera, that he wanted to splash Zantzinger's life all over because of what he'd done.

Fruitloopz isn't the judge or jury in this, he found an identifiable item, contacted the owner, so to withhold it is patently dishonest. Dylan did his artistic best to bring this matter to light, he won't want the camera. To smear photos of Zantzinger's family across the web could possibly be criminal--copyright rests with the person who took the photos and even if they went missing, you know who took them and you don't have his permission to use them, let alone make a mockery of the rest of his family for your delight.

At least the schmuck who found the ring and won't report it is just your garden variety low-life.

Let's hope if this is all that this guy has to offer Mudcat that he's a two-post wonder and goodbye.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 05:41 PM

This guy is definitely worng for oh so many reasons!

I once found a little girl's plastic purse while walking along the park (on the Potomac). Knowing that the park police would be too busy for something so minor and that the parents might not have the time to come back and look for it, I managed to track down the possible owner and phoned her to ask where it should be returned. There were a few little items that might be precious to a little girl but otherwise it was empty. I asked the mother's permission and filled it with lollipops and other candy that we keep in the office for our cravings.
I didn't hear back from the mother but I can picture the little girl getting her purse back and finding it filled with candy.
That is more rewarding than anything monitary that I can think of.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 06:41 PM

Wish they were all as nice as you, Chief. My grandmother had an antique gold family-heirloom wristwatch which she always wore - it was not absurdly valuable except for sentimental reasons because of its age and history.

One day she went out to the shops and the watchband must have broken or something because she came home without it, but it was some time before she noticed her bare wrist. She had a pretty good idea where she'd lost it, so she contacted the shop and put a classified ad in the local paper offering a reward and giving her phone number.

Sure enough, before long the phone rang. It was the person who had found her watch, and from the detailed description she knew the call was genuine. He wanted to know how much she was offering as a reward so she told him the figure and there was a moment's silence. Then he said, "Forget it. I can get more than that for this watch so I'm keeping it" and he hung up in her ear, without even giving her a chance to up the offer. She never saw her heirloom watch again. Losers weepers indeed. For the whole family.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 07:14 PM

I think the name "Fruitloopz" says it all.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Slag
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 07:55 PM

When I was about 10 years old I found a twenty dollar bill. Wow! I was one rich kid. I spent it in riotous living and luxury. Money was no object. When I finally told my parent the source of my new found wealth they asked me if I thought it was right, what I did. Why sure I responded. They then pointed out that that may have been some one's only money for the week, money that someone needed and depended on but if I thought it was right, well OK.

What ever I spent that money on is gone and long forgotten but I have a memory of guilt and regret. I'm not sure, I never asked but I think my folks tried to find the loser of the money. I never kept another thing of any great value that I have found since without making a good faith effort to find the owner. I have returned wallets, a few, and other items. One day of revelry, forty years of remembering but a good lesson in the event.

Common decency, self respect and the law all agree that every reasonable effort should be made to return a found item of worth. When you hand someone back their personal information, photos and money or a precious keepsake such as a ring what a great reward just to see worry vanish from their face and gratitude replace it. You can't buy that!

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: meself
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 08:20 PM

Isn't anyone going to come onto this thread and rationalize the keeping of the ring, and give us a big lecture on what a self-righteous bunch of hypocrites we all are? ... What is Mudcat coming to?!

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Peace
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 08:32 PM

OK. It's a tough job BUT, someone's gotta do it.





















FIRST, I want some jujubes.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 10:12 PM

Actually this thread is a relief to me. No one in my office agreed with me - in fact they find it funny I was so upset. I do tend to overthink things and thought maybe I was off base but I didn't honestly see how. Thank you for restoring my faith in human nature. And someone give that man a JuJube.

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 10:36 PM

I will say that I disagreed with a family friend who made my daughter turn in a $10 bill she found in a parking lot at an arcade restaurant establishment. It was exciting for my daughter but the friend made no provision for her to claim it if no one asked, and it most certainly became a windfall for the employee who took it from her.

That friend is a bit of a ditz, so it simply didn't occur to her, but for a small child, the thing should have been thought out a little better.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Finders Keepers Losers Weepers??
From: maeve
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 10:54 PM

Sinsull dear, you absolutely are thinking straight. By pointing out the poor choice your friend has made you are being a real friend.

And I'd give that Peace person a Jujube, but that request is a red herring; he secretly craves a skelp, and that's Megan's department.