BS: der HErr

Subject: BS: der HErr
From: leeneia
Date: 07 Dec 21 - 12:42 AM

Somebody sent my Lutheran church a Lutheran book printed in 1913, a book in German in the old fraktur print. The book was commissioned by the Wisconsin Synod and was published by Northwestern Publishing. I was intrigued to see that whenever the word "Herr" (Lord) appeared, both the H and the E were capitalized.

Is that traditional? Perhaps it was typeset by somebody who made a mistake, but that doesn't seem reasonable.

Subject: RE: BS: der HErr
From: DaveRo
Date: 07 Dec 21 - 03:30 AM

An extra capital, since the noun will be already capitalised, seems logical, but see also this:

Is HErr capitalized in German?

Subject: RE: BS: der HErr
From: MudGuard
Date: 07 Dec 21 - 04:40 PM

no, a capitalized second letter is not logical.

Capitalizing a non-first letter is not used in German language.
Except in abbreviations like GmbH (Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung) as the abbreviation uses the capitalization of the single words) or
if the whole word is capitalized (in headlines, or to emphasize a word)

I have seen quite a lot of old German books (including bibles and church hymn books and religious texts), and never saw Herr written as HErr. This strange capitalization is so unusal it is irritating when reading a text ...

I just looked at ~20 old hymn books (which my father collected) dating from ~1600 to ~1900 and did not see a HErr ...

As the book is from Wisconsin, maybe HE was capitalized in Herr as "HE, the Lord" (but even that does not make much sense to me ...)

Andy a/k/a MudGuard, native German speaker

Subject: RE: BS: der HErr
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Dec 21 - 05:13 PM

Not so!

Look no further than where I have looked,
which of course is Google Books.

MudGuard is correct in stating that many collections do NOT do this thing.
Having said that, if you look hard enough,
those collections that have this feature, may be found.
I only took a minute or two to find this example myself.


Gesang-Buch vieler geistreicher Lieder / wohl in öffentlichen Versammlungen. Als auch Häußlichen Andacht heylsamlich zu gebrauchen. Unter Königlichen Majestät in Preussen u. allergnädigsten PRIVILEGIO, und Auf APPROBATION zweyer theologischen Facultäten heraus gegeben.
Ellrich und Bleicherode: Verlegt von Johann Martin Horn, Regierungs-buchb. in Ellrich. ANNO 1707.   


The preceding is the title of a songbook in a digital photocopy file,
for which the original is in
the British Library/British Museum in London,
according to Google Books.

And the example of what is described in the OP,
occurs in the index, which is at the very back of the book.
Here is an excerpt of alphabetical-order opening lines of hymns.


Grosser Prophete/ mein Hertze
Groß und herrlich ist der König
Guter Hirte/ JEsu Christ

(very large font for this initial H)

H Alleluja/ Lob/ Preiß und Ehr
Hastu denn JEsu dein Angesicht
Helfft mir Gottes Güte preisen
HErr Christ der einge Gottes Sohn
Herr deine Rechte und Geboth
Herr der du Gnad und Hülff
Herr der du vormahls gnädig hast

[... and ten opening lines down the page:]

Herr JEsu Christ dich zu uns wend
Herr Jesu Christ du höchstes
Herr Jesu Christ ich schrey zu dir

etc etc etc

Well, I can't offer any explanation for the preceding,
but there it is.

Subject: RE: BS: der HErr
From: DaveRo
Date: 07 Dec 21 - 05:32 PM

To me it's the same as printing 'the Lord' or 'praise Him' in English bibles - it's a convention. If it's already got a capital, add another. That's what I meant by 'logical'.

If you google, there are several discussions about it. Probably even more in German.

Subject: RE: BS: der HErr
From: leeneia
Date: 07 Dec 21 - 06:27 PM

Thanks, that's interesting. Thanks especially to keberaxu for finding those old examples. When I first saw HErr in the old book, I had to stop and puzzle out what the word could be, it looked so funny. I'm glad it's not done any more.

Subject: RE: BS: der HErr
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Dec 21 - 07:10 PM

Keep 'em coming. This is verrry interrresting!

Subject: RE: BS: der HErr
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Dec 21 - 08:19 PM

Aha! I recognize an Arte Johnson persona from "Laugh-In" TV series.

Subject: RE: BS: der HErr
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Dec 21 - 11:12 PM

LOL you are good and unafraid Keb!