Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan

Subject: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 10:37 AM

Now microsoft in their 'wisdom' have decided that my 'hotmail' has become 'outlook' - I expect that isn't going to be any more of an improvement than the Windows 8 debacle. It seems a pity that microsoft can't find a better use for their employees than 'digging holes and filling them in'
chris (fast becoming a technophobe)

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 10:45 AM

Yeah, they've been threatening me with that too. I keep getting screen-covering nag boxes which won't let me see my mail until I click something. So far I've just hit the piss-off-I've-got-work-to-do button, but wonder how long the luxury of that option will last?

Anybody caught (as in "catch" the flu) the update yet? Whassit like?

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 11:35 AM

I think it would be OK if you could make the font smaller and darker. It's rather grey annd makes up for the difficulty in reading it by having a large font. Consequently it looks like something a kid has designed. Perhaps they did...

I've had worse, one of the webmails I use (certainly until very recently) used to 'keep' the login email address and because it was loading adverts would often drop you into a Google search box if you were too quick - or too slow. That meant anyone watching could see you paswword because ou were searching for it. It did complain and had a few e-discussions with some support staff but they didn't see it as a problem...

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: nickp
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 11:38 AM

Oops that was me!

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 11:39 AM

I have been using Outlook as an address book for years, and find it very good for that. Never used it as a mail programme, I prefer Thunderbird.

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 11:50 AM

This is a browser-screen version (at least mine is) rather than a computer programme. Yes, I like T-Bird too.

Nick, what webmail programme was that? So I know to avoid it...

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 12:01 PM

Since they've been touting the web version to the commercial sector for years it would look odd if they didn't use it 'in-house'. They don't have to allocate resources to maintaining 2 email apps.

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 12:10 PM

The switch doesn't seem to cause any problems for my account, but I don't use it for email, I use it for the cloud storage.

SRS

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,JHW
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 12:20 PM

By saving the old url and putting it back in I'm still on the old Blue Yahoo email which is far more lucid than the newer Purple one. Alas I didn't do that for Hotmail so don't use it anymore. You used to be able to click a batch of emails then delete the lot but that seems to have gone so they'll have to keep them all. Its probably hidden somewhere but I reckon its the computer's job to remember things for me, not mine for it. Like when they hide stuff in supermarkets I can't be bothered to go looking.
Anyway I thought the whole idea of these web freebies was to sell advertising alongside so why deter users?

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: kendall
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 12:28 PM

It sucks big time, and I told them so. I see no way to forward an email. A pox on the bean counters who do this.

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: nickp
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 02:05 PM

Bonnie, don't know particularly is it is 'actual' webmail but it's from the UK company that begins with Tis....

Thankfully its latest version seems a little more sensible.

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 02:43 PM

You could try Mail2Web, which is pretty good, though it's not the fastest horse in the west, and is now getting very advert-y lately. You can forward stuff, reply (if you want a copy of your own message you're sending you need to remember to tick a box) etc. And it will download your mail into your desktop client next time you open it.

Only thing is, if you delete something while in Mail2Web, it zaps it off the server so it's gone forever. But if you just close things without deleting, they'll still be waiting there for you next time. Overall it's useful enough for those accounts which live in one computer rather than, say, Gmail.

They're a Micro$oft outfit, but I've been happy enough in stopgap situations for my non-IMAP (or whatever they call it) accounts. URL is

http://www.mail2web.com/

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 02:46 PM

Or do I mean IMAP accounts? POP accounts? The ones that aren't website-based hence don't travel from puter to puter with you.

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 02:56 PM

gmail seems ok for me. .

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 02:57 PM

Microsoft announced some time ago that Hotmail was to be discontinued and I believe some reports said the name would be changed to Outlook.

The chief difference is that the former Hotmail server(s) are being shut down, and the mail will now come and go on server(s) named Outlook(?).

The switchover is/was supposed to be "automatic" but there haven't been any details about what changes to server settings might be required (or imposed). Microsoft says "trust us."

Previous reports are that existing Hotmail email accounts and addresses will remain usable, but that all new accounts will be called outlook accounts and new user addresses will be outlook addresses.

Some confusion is likely, since "Outlook" has been (and still is) the name for a program you can use to handle email on your own computer, regardless of what email service you use, with a "sister program" that was once called "Mail" but then changed to "Outlook Express" and then changed back to "Mail" that offered "simpler" features than the Outlook program with less "instant messaging" (that in the Outlook program kept turning itself back on every time you turned it off).

The Outlook service is apparently NOT the same thing as the Outlook program and the Outlook service is a subset or adjunct to the "Live Mail" service which is also the name of a program that they can't get anyone to use much since they've never actually told anyone what it is.

The bottom line is that your Hotmail email address will (for now) remain the same and you can continue to use it, but the server you connect to will be a different one (or the same one with a different name and address). You will not be able to get a new Hotmail address but will be able to get a new Outlook account and address that will be pretty much the same thing as a Hotmail one - until they change all the names again the next time.

You may be assured that if you're still confused Microsoft will soon** release full and complete explanations for all the new features that the change will make available to you.

** soon means When Hell Freezes Over, global warming is believed by a Republican, and the Pope sends you your personal invitation to his wedding. (All three are necessary conditions and must all happen, but expect to hear from the Pope first.)

John

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 03:10 PM

Kevin, Gmail's fine. I'm talking about picking up mail from older accounts (POP ??) that download into a desktop programme and don't travel from computer to computer, which is what I use M2W for if I'm on another machine and still want to read/send mail.

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 03:16 PM

Thanks for the clarification JiK - I have a Live account which ends [e-mail] and also two others which end [e-mail]

Can I assume that all these email addresses will stay usable as they are, or do I have to change the server suffix? (I'm not even sure how I GOT a "Live.com" account. I signed on for Hotmail and that's just what they gave me...)

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 03:40 PM

""(I'm not even sure how I GOT a "Live.com" account. I signed on for Hotmail and that's just what they gave me...)""

live.com is the E-Mail you get when you use Microsnot's Windows Live.

My wife has a live.co.uk address.

Don T.

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,trews
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 04:40 PM

WHY IS THIS IN THE MUSIC SECTION!

Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 04:43 PM

Computer/Tech-related stuff often is.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 05:36 PM

I have switched over with no difficulty whatsoever.

Actually, I think it was my wife who initially accepted the offer to switch, but that must have caused some cookies to be set which made me switch, too. We have different email accounts and we use different browsers but we both use the same computer, at least for email.

Furthermore, this is the second time we've gone through a transformation, more or less forcibly. We started out with MSN as a provider, and our email addresses are still [e-mail]. Then the website we had to use became known as Hotmail. Now I see the name Hotmail has gone away and the only thing I see is Outlook.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 06:01 PM

I've had my MSN e-mail address since about 1996, when I got MSN dialup service. It's a POP3 account that can be used on a variety of e-mail software packages, but I've always used the Web-based setup that was provided. MSN was merged with Hotmail, and then it was live.com, and now outlook.com - but I have always had the same e-mail address. I pay $22 a month for slightly better service and no ads.

Microsoft Office has had an Outlook e-mail client for at least 20 years, and it also used to offer a package called "Outlook Express" for free. I've used Web-based e-mail for 15 years or so because I can access it from any computer, and because it doesn't download a message to my computer unless I want to look at it - that stops most Spam and viruses from being downloaded to my computer.

Windows 8 has an Outlook function that I don't like, but I do like the Web-based e-mail client at outlook.com. It's a little sloppy about handling groups of e-mail addressees like my song circle e-mail list, but it's otherwise well-suited to my needs.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 06:12 PM

Trews, as Bonnie Shaljean says, tech stuff is often in the music section. It's actually the usual spot for tech stuff, since the "tech" label is set to direct threads in that category to the top of the page - same with obituaries. Moderators routinely move non-music obits to the non-music section when they see them. For the most part, tech threads are left in the top section unless they're really just BS chit-chat. It's just one of those arbitrary things, not a hard-and-fast rule. We see no need to argue about whether a thread should be "above the line" or "below the line."

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 06:39 PM

Especially when the thread title makes it crystal-clear exactly what it contains, so people can easily just bypass it.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,trews
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 07:07 PM

a fair point. no problem

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 07:46 PM

The majority of email programs (email clients is another term) do use the POP3 protocol.

In nearly all of them that I've seen, you can "export" or "save as" individual messages as a single file. "Mail" which turned into "Outlook Express" and then turned back into "Mail" again exports each file as a .eml file. Outlook (the program/email client) uses a different file extension but still works mostly the same. You get a single file that you can put anywhere on your computer that contains just one email. The file should open your regular email client/program when you double-click it.

A difficulty some have had is that the exported file had a "database filename" that was an illegible string of hex numbers so you needed to change the file name (but not the file extension) to be able to tell what they were. In Windows 7 (and maybe before) if you put them all in a folder you can click the top bar in Windows Explorer and choose to have the subject, sender, recipient, or a whole bunch (~128) of different things displayed where the filename would be the most usual thing. The exported files still have to be handled pretty much one at a time, and you still need an email client of some kind to open them, although you don't really have to use that client/program for the email that you send/receive in normal ways.

In older Windows versions, Outlook Express or Mail were included by default in the standard/default installations. In recent versions you probably need to download Mail (which is essentially the same thing as Outlook Express) but it should still be free from Microsoft.

All the reports that I've seen have indicated that the "new systems" will continue to accept (and forward automatically) email that uses an email address from one of the older systems. You don't (they promised) have to get a new email address. Any new accounts/addresses will have to be named for the new "widgetry."

"Windows Live" is a new (about 2 year old?) hallucination dreamed up by Microsoft and never really explained, but so far as I've been able to figure it out you can sign up for "Windows Live" and if you log in on your "Live" account the login is supposed to be valid "anywhere you go" (at participating sites) on the internet. There was an earlier version of this but I've successfully suppressed the memories to the point that I don't even remember what it was called.

IF YOU GET AN EMAIL ACCOUNT from "Windows Live" it's a Windows Live Email account. It appears that you can have a Windows Live account as a "browsing aid" (if you can figure out why you want to?) but get your email account from anywhere else. If you want a new free email account from Microsoft without being signed up for Windows Live and/or without signing in and getting it there it will now be an "Outlook" account with and you'll have an Outlook email address, instead of Hotmail.

Note that this is all my "interpretation" of what I've seen in the news; but I checked the mail today and haven't received anything from Rome, so a clear Microsoft explanation is apparently still being developed for future release.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 07:58 PM

Kendall - if you click the Reply button at the top, you then have the option to Forward.

Have to say, I utterly loathe the new Outlook that I've been forced to move to. Large fonts and too much white space are hard on the eyes and make things harder to find.

Sue

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 10:51 AM

Large fonts? Try clicking on a white space and press Ctrl -.

Or look for Options somewhere above the e-mail texts. You may be able to change the font to what you like.

I got my e-mail provider the old-fashion way. I looked in the Yellow Pages and searched for Internet Service Providers. I selected a local company which is staffed by nice young guys named Brad or Chad. They speak clear English. When I need help (not often), they answer the phone and talk to me. There are no ads on my e-mail page.

I intend to stick with them for as long as possible.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: bobad
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 11:02 AM

Kendall

To forward click on "options" in the top right corner of your email message and select "forward" from the list that appears in the drop down menu - simple.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: bobad
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 11:04 AM

Sorry Kendall - that should read click on "actions" in the top right corner of your email message.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 10:52 PM

I use the resident Mozilla program called Thunderbird to manage most of my email accounts that will allow downloading (all gmail based.) Yahoo won't let me do that, and neither will Microsoft. I'd have to pay them an annual fee and I don't like their programs enough to bother.

Thunderbird can do POP3 (that's how I do it on my home computer) or IMAP (I have the program installed on my work computer, but it doesn't download everything into the computer, it just accesses the mail while I'm online.)

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: EBarnacle
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 01:36 AM

I've had Outlook now for a couple of days and loathe it. On the older computer I am using at the moment it tends to freeze. When it does not freeze it simply responds slowly. It also interferres with internet explorer, not allowing other windows to open on this computer.
I also had the large type issue, then looked at the lower right hand corner and remembered that the percentage number in the lower right hand corner allows you to adjust the size of the type face.
So far, as far as I am concerned, this latest migration is a loser.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 01:59 AM

EBarnacle and Suegorgeous, are you using the "outlook" mail program that comes with Windows 8, or the one at outlook.com? I hate the first, don't mind the second.

John in Kansas, I think live.com is no more. That URL takes me to outlook.com

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: nickp
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 04:56 AM

The CTRL + & - I knew about but that means changing in and out of the font manually between outlook and other web page. I'd rather hoped there might be some outlook specific 'preference' I could use.

Finding the 'print' option took a while too!

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: EBarnacle
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 09:35 AM

This machine is still on XP. It works reasonably well on my Windows 7 machines.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 12:31 PM

They've now flashed up 2 notes asking for feed back!! I suggested that instead of digging holes then filling them that they might find a better use for their staff. I've been polite - so far. The next one is likely to get a bit abusive - not that they'll read them I guess!!!!
chris (getting irritable)

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 02:10 PM

As usual, Microsoft has changed the names of just about everything, and as usual they've used the names of other things that they previously called by the same names they are now using for the old things that are now called by the new names, using names that duplicate the names of old things, and some of the old things that used to use those names are the same things they still use and call by new names that are the same names that were used for different old things. They are now using the names previously used for some old things that now have new names, while others of the old things that still use the same old names are things which are no longer still used but that you can continue to use if you want to, provided that you don't confuse the old things that always used that old name with the other old things that are now using that name or with the old things that now use another old name from something else that may still use the old name or may now use a different old name.

You'll probably need to read the above at least three times to reach full understanding of Microsoft's recent changes.

Unfortunately, since several people here will only read the first paragraph once and will try to skip ahead, not everyone will know what old thing they're talking about when the think they're describing the old thing that now uses the same name as the old thing that used to use that name instead of the other old thing that has always used that name, and those who respond will talk about the wrong old thing that used to use the name that is now used by the other old thing that now uses the old name.

IS THAT CLEAR?

If it's not, you probably should start over and CONCENTRATE until you understand the situation. Alternatively, you may want to risk proceeding and hope something sinks in.

I'll try to post some further explanation in a next post, due to length of the rant.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 02:15 PM

MANY PEOPLE read their email in their browser and the messages are delivered in HTML formatted files. You must set up your account on an html server, but no program is required on your own computer except a browser and usually an account file to log you onto the server where your mail is sent/received. Some html services do require installation of a (proprietary) "reader" but it's not technically required and usually is mostly so that the service can get more information about what you do so that they can "sell you" to more advertisers.

HTML mail offers simplicity, but can make some things that "sophisticated" users like, such as local reliable archiving of messages on their own machines somewhat more difficult. You can work around the problems, in most cases.

MORE RELIABLE and for some, more convenient, email is achieved by using an "email client." This is a program installed on your own computer that sends and receives your mail, nearly always in a database record format although most client programs can handle html mail as well. Most email client programs are, or can be, set up to copy all messages to your own local machine, and archiving is mostly pretty simple (once you figure it out). If you choose to use an email client with "real mail" protocols, you usually have to connect to a different server than the one you would use for HTML mail, but nearly all internet services provide both kinds. In a few cases the same server may be able to provide either kind, but so far as I know it's rare.

If you use HTML mail, the "language" in which emails are sent to you or that you use to send emails is, of course, html.

If you use an email client program installed on your own computer, the "language" (protocol) used for transmitting messages is nearly always POP3. Sometimes the transmission is HTML one way, and POP3 only for messages going the other way. You set the "protocols" in your account settings for whatever email service you use. YOU CAN generally use a client program either for database formatted (POP3) mail or for HTML mail, but most people who have a reason to use a client program will probably want to use POP3.

OUTLOOK has been the name of Microsoft's main email client program since before there was Windows. A "simplified" Microsoft email client program you could use was called "Mail" prior to Win95, but the name was changed to OUTLOOK EXPRESS until Vista(?), when its name was changed back to MAIL. BOTH OUTLOOK, and MAIL or OUTLOOK EXPRESS, were included in default Windows Installations automatically so you could just register an account in either and start sending mail.

Microsoft does not include the renamed MAIL program by default now. I believe the change was made in Vista but may not have happened until Win7. You must download the MAIL email client program from Microsoft if you want it, but it was free the last time I looked and should still be.

MSN, MSN-Live, Hotmail, gmail, and other similar names generally apply to an email SERVICE that you can connect to and use to send/get your email. Various of these may require you to use a CLIENT PROGRAM on your computer in order to make the connection. Sometimes the client program is proprietary to the service, but usually you can use any email client program you choose.

Since Microsoft has decided that the name of their new SERVICE will be OUTLOOK, but OUTLOOK remains the name of a very popular EMAIL CLIENT PROGRAM you can use with any service, if you ask a question about OUTLOOK it is absolutely necessary that you know which one you're asking about and clearly state which it is when you ask. If you don't distinguish between the two when you ask for help, at least 80% of the "answers" you get will be about the other one and may cause harm to your setup if you try to follow them (based on recent mudcat threads).

If you attempt to ANSWER a question about something that can have a typical "Microsoft ambiguity of name," caution is required to make sure you're fixing the right thing. (And Microsoft isn't the only place where they've fired all the people that used to know what they were talking about, or where nobody knows how to say what they do mean even when they get the subject right.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,JHWstill on XP and still with a full height
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 04:38 PM

'To forward click on "options" in the top right corner of your email message and select "forward" from the list that appears in the drop down menu - simple.'

You shouldn't have to remember what to click to find something else. Its the computer's job to remember things.
There should be a readily visible and clearly labelled button for everything you might want to do. That's simple

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 23 Mar 13 - 04:00 AM

HTML is a format protocol not a mail protocol. HTML mails can still be sent by POP3, MAPI, SMTP etc as can plain text.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 07:58 AM

Joe - I'm not sure which of those.... It says Outlook.com... all I know is that I was (fairly) happily on Hotmail, then they forced me onto Outlook. Didn't choose it.

"Forward" doesn't appear on my Options list. I can only access Forward via the Reply button.

I think the Ctrl- thing reduces the page size, not the font size? and doesn't give me my helpful separating lines back. I can see no percentage number in the bottom right corner :(

Just hate the thing!

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 10:43 AM

I just sent them a new message telling how much I dislike "features" of the new system--how difficult it is to send mail to various people on my list, how difficult it is to get rid of spam mail, that fershlugginer right pane which gives no useful information but decreases the size of the reading pane, etc. It's pretty bad.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,JHW(cookie still on old computer)
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 06:19 AM

Hey don't forget there are people out there trying to earn an honest crust by spoiling all this stuff. Facebook has just moved the stuff you might read to the right of the page and put all the backstage stuff about friends and such at the top right, where a newspaper would put its headline. Of course its idiotic but it keeps folks in work.
If they just put up a good website and left it alone they'd have no job. We all have to eat.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 06:34 AM

There still seems to be some confusion about just what is happening to Hotmail/Outlook. One of the few older news reports (18 Feb) that might help clarify things for some people (posted elsewhere at mudcat) might bear repeating here:

Ding-dong, Hotmail's dead: All accounts switching to Outlook.com by summer
Wilson Rothman, NBC News

It's official: Outlook.com will fully replace Hotmail as Microsoft's webmail service. The company will begin to auto-update accounts, and hopes they will be fully migrated from Hotmail to Outlook.com by this summer.

The move was spurred by surprise growth in the Outlook.com mail service, which has amassed 60 million active users in just six months. Microsoft will also remove the "customer preview" label on the product, and launch a multimillion-dollar marketing campaign.

I know the first thing you're thinking: "Does this mean my Hotmail address will just go away?" No. It just means that when you go to hotmail.com, you will be re-routed to Outlook.com, and when you log in on the Web, you will get the Outlook.com experience. You can keep your @hotmail.com email address forever, but you can also use that account to create multiple new @outlook.com email addresses, too, if you so desire.

And let me tell you, you shouldn't wait for Microsoft to switch your old Hotmail service over to Outlook.com. I am an unabashed Hotmail hater, but who can forgive the original webmail service for being so far behind the times? Even when Microsoft spent millions on a "new Hotmail" ad campaign a scant two years ago, nobody was fooled: You still had to refresh the thing every time you wanted to know if you had mail.

Enter Outlook.com, which really can give Gmail a run for its money. It's a very smart service with a very streamlined design, tasteful social integration and auto organization features such as inbox "sweep" and scheduled cleanup. Because of this last bit, it's ideal for use either as a main email or as a "spam account," the kind you provide to online retailers and other data collectors.

(Switching your account over takes almost no effort: Just log into Hotmail then click Settings at the top right — you will see the option to convert to Outlook.)

Though Microsoft was pleased at the sudden growth of Outlook.com users, I grilled David Law, director of product management for Outlook.com, about how many of the 60 million users were just converts from Hotmail's existing 350 million or so accounts. My supposition is that this represents almost all of them, but while Law wouldn't tell me the number, he did say I would be surprised how many were totally fresh.

Law was forthcoming about a different statistic, one that demonstrates Microsoft's target: About one third of the current Outlook.com users are — or, at least, were — also Gmail users.

Outlook.com is a very welcome email option, and — when partnered with the company's SkyDrive cloud storage services — a sign that Microsoft may well regain some traction with consumers looking for reliable Web services.

One of its only obvious problems is that of branding: Because it's called "Outlook," many people (naturally) assume that it is some kind of Web client for managing any email account. It's not. It's a free service, like Gmail or Yahoo mail or, yes, Hotmail, that provides you with an email account. So don't go asking if you can create an Outlook.com account and then add your corporate email to it, because that's like asking if you can take Google Maps and stick Mapquest into it.

Wilson Rothman is the Technology & Science editor at NBC News Digital.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: kendall
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 07:16 AM

I switched from gmail to hotmail because gmail was a pain in the ass. Now, I'm forced to use Outlook. I don't like change for change's sake. It seems like they just can't leave anything alone!

Anyway, I still have my yahoo email to fall back on.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 03:06 PM

A new report (3 hours? ago from MSNBC) might be of interest to those using "free email" and who might consider a change between the several available.

This doesn't seem like anything major, and gmail users have probably already seen the "optional" new feature called the "compose window."

According to this report, the "option" will soon be mandatory.

Like it or not, Google's forcing the new Gmail compose window on you

FWIW

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 05:00 PM

The new Outlook is fine for me. I can't see anything missing that I used before. The only quibble I have is that on my computer I could go straight from Favourites to Hotmail emails without logging in.
Now I've got the extra arse of logging in every time, unless you know how to avoid this? BTW I'm technically incompetent!

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 05:37 PM

Steve G -

Recent Windows versions, and many antimalware programs, include "password vaults" where you can store your passwords and they'll be automatically provided when you connect to the site that requires them. Generally, the passwords are "encrypted" so they're reasonably safe from discovery. If your experience is limited, setting one up could be a little confusing.

If you use an AV program that has this feature you probably could find specific instructions at the provider's website.

Microsoft has "instructions" but what I've seen of them implies that they're written by "softies" with limited ability to communicate with real people. It might be worth taking a look anyway if logging in is enough of a problem.

There are also some separate "vault" programs with decent reputations. Some one here may be able to suggest one they've used(?).

Nearly all "email programs" require setting up an account in the program, and if they're properly setup login should be automatic when you open the program. "Outlook" has been the name of one such for at least 30 years, although it is assumed that your reference to that name meant "the new other Outlook" - i.e. Outlook.com - and you're using your browser for email. Some browsers may permit setting up automatic logins for specific web sites, but I haven't looked at that possibility.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 05:47 PM

Thanks, John. I got the basic gist.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,surreysinger sans cookie
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 06:49 PM

Anybody know how to reduce the width of the wretched right hand box they've introduced? At the moment on my 11" screen on the netbook I can't read a whole line of anything ... it's a pain in the rear end!!