BS: Fawning Germans

Subject: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Leadbelly
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 01:00 PM

Cannot believe that this is McCains opinion about some Germans but it must be true. Unbelieveable!

"He (Obamas) prioritises throngs of fawning Germans over meeting with wounded combat troops in Germany," Mr Bounds said." From The Australian and others.

Now we know what to expect from this candidate. Seems to be a new approach in partnership.

Manfred from Germany

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 01:17 PM

It's hard for me to fathom how far McCain has fallen in my estimation. At one time I thought he was honest and forthright. His major fault to my mind was that his views were too far rigidly 'right wing'. I take back just about every good thought I'd had about him.



"Update: Obama spokesperson Tommy Vietor just released a response to the McCain ad on Saturday evening:

J"ohn McCain is an honorable man who is running an increasingly dishonorable campaign. Senator McCain knows full well that Senator Obama strongly supports and honors our troops, which is what makes this attack so disingenuous. Senator Obama was honored to meet with our men and women in uniform in Iraq and Afghanistan this week and has visited wounded soldiers at Walter Reed numerous times. This politicization of our soldiers is exactly what Senator Obama sought to avoid, and it's not worthy of Senator McCain or the "civil" campaign he claimed he would run.

Update

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 01:27 PM

I seriously considered voting for McCain in 2000, had he gotten his party's nomination, for all the same reasons I would never consider voting for him now. I respect candidates who show honesty and integrity and who put principles before political opportunism. He seemed to have those qualities then (I have since learned that he did not) - he does not have those qualities now.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 02:01 PM

If people great you with tremendous enthusiasm, it is usually a clear indication that they like you and respect you, perhaps because you are worthy of their respect and liking. If someone else calls it "fawning", it's probably because that someone else finds it quite inconvenient for their own agenda. McCain would love it if millions of Europeans were "fawning" over him in a similar fashion...but they're not. Gee, that's tough, isn't it? Maybe he should wear a T-shirt that says "Mr Charisma" and see if it makes a difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 02:04 PM

In case anyone is wondering why Obama did not visit the servicemen.....the Pentagon attached conditions to such a visit involving who on his staff could accompany Obama, but did not clarify or notify them until the last minute. Obama DID visit the wounded in Iraq, with very little fanfare.

McCain's campaign, finding itself in trouble and desperate for any way to gain perceived leverage, is trying to paint anything Obama does or does NOT do in a negative light.

I am just waiting for a critique of how Obama buttons his suit jacket when meeting foreign dignitaries...

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Alice
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 02:51 PM

Obama is damned if he does or doesn't do anything. The sharks are circling.

Leadbelly, because you are in Germany, I'm interested in how you reacted to Obama visiting Germany and speaking there. What is your opinion?

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: heric
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 03:05 PM

I agree with Ebbie yet again. I think McCain, either on his own or through his servants for whom he takes responsibility, has pretty much blown it this weekend. Obama has gone on the world stage - by orchestrating a world tour with great skill. McCain could never get such a reception.

Obama should never have even thought to see wounded soldiers during a campaign show - it would have seemed crass and manipulative beyond belief, and McCain's campaign would have said so.

McCain could have gone and voted on the bailout yesterday, and just said I am here working, and addressing real issues at home, good for Obama. This would have given him some of the Truman factor - the buck stops here; stalwart acheiver with a working record still ongoing. Instead he has let himself appear as a lonely sniper.

Amos posted an excerpt from the Scotsman yesterday that said it all well in the last sentence. This election is all about Obama. He will convince enough people to trust him, despite any real record, or he won't. If he doesn't, McCain gets the Presidency by default.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Leadbelly
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 03:14 PM

Alice, in total, positive impression of his speech. Although I do believe, basically nothing will change in US foreign politics.
But Obama seems to be more open to discussions with European and other countries before taking action as to international decisions.
In any case he might be a better choice than McCain is.
But only time will tell...

Manfred

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 03:31 PM

I think McCain should get rid of Tucker Bounds.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 03:42 PM

The opposing photo ops that McCain chose were surreal.

Obama with Petraus in a helicopter, McCain with pappy Bush in a blue golf cart.
Obama's press conferences on the mountain, at the holocost memorial, in front of the shells and rockets.
McCain in front of cheese and "Dole" juice.
Obama speaking to two hundred thousand in Germany
McCain speaking to 20 at a german restaurant.

Was it his way of getting coverage on Colbert and The Daily Show?

Was McCain deliberately ridiculing himself?

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 03:52 PM

McCain has a serious problem with symbolism...
or maybe just very bad advisors.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 03:55 PM

He has behaved very strangely this week.

Are people going to get sick of him demanding that Obama say that the surge was a success. He is in big trouble in defining his campaign around what Obama DOES NOT admit.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 04:07 PM

According to the video of McCain in the supermarket that I viewed the other night on the Daily Show, he even got into trouble there as a whole shelf of pickled peppers collapsed behind him.

But let's get back to the real issues, if there are any left...

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 04:09 PM

The main stream TV shows, have been kind to McCain. Even Olberman did not show that cascade of jars.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 04:15 PM

Here's the link to the Daily Show clip (before viewing this video you're advised to put down your coffee in a secure place): click here!

"Campaign clean-up in aisle two!"

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST,Cy
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 04:40 PM

In case McCain wins the election (I hope NOT), I can already see him "fawning" through Europe, begging for support for his next useless war..

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 05:07 PM

"We're sorry but this video is not available."

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 05:21 PM

There've been a couple of threads recently about the daft names some parents give to their children, and the impact it can have on them in later life.

Is "Tucker", as in this "Tucker Bounds" an example of stupid parents like this? Or is it a nickname indicating he eats too much?

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: curmudgeon
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 05:24 PM

Probably his mother's maiden name. Many's the child cursed similarly.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 06:13 PM

Americans don't go in for rhyming slang much, do they?...

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 06:27 PM

sorry gnu, I don't think they allow daily show clips in Canada.

here is the raw clip without Stewart's quips.

Apple sauce attack!

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 06:28 PM

USans mostly don't know about rhyming slang. Similarly, among people in the US, the name "Tucker" would not evoke any sort of connection with eating, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 07:31 PM

So it's best not to advise an American guest to "tuck in" to a meal.

That could be a very useful scrap of information.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Alice
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 07:37 PM

over here, you just tuck in your shirt (shirt tail into your pants).

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 07:50 PM

As I said in another discussion: Before that comment I just did not go along with McCain's political ideas. However, now he has completely lost my respect, too (and I guess of some other hundreds of Germans).

There is one positive aspect, though: If McCain should indeed become the new American president he will have to think twice about coming to Germany - because I am looking forward to showing him how "warmly" the fawning Germans can greet an American president like him.

Don't forget: guest posts without a name risk being deleted. Please remember to sign in with a consistent name.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: DougR
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 07:51 PM

Carol C: "I respect candidates who show honesty and integrity and who put principles before political opportunities." Then who are you going to vote for in the presidential election? Surely not Obama.

As to Obama not visiting the wounded troops in Germany. He had every opportunity. The Pentagon released a statement, which has been widely reported on CNN and Fox News clarifying it's requirements were he to visit them. He, as a U. S. Senator would be most welcome. However he could not bring his two or three hundred adoring news reporters with him. He chose not to visit them (after all, what would be the point if there were no photographers present).

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 08:05 PM

It doesn't matter if Obama he visited the troops or not. Tucker Bounds gives us a first inside on McCains' planned "foreign policy".

Don't forget: guest posts without a name risk being deleted. Please remember to sign in with a consistent name.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST,Thor
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 08:07 PM

Sorry, but Mr. Bounds is just condescending towards Germans. I just wonder why? Of course I don't have the right to speak for my fellow citizens, but since this statement about "fawning Germans" went across the news in my home country, I can only imagine what they think about Senator McCain and his campaign. Bounds claims that the Senator would not have to prove credentials on foreign policy matters, but it appears that Bounds himself doesn't have any.
Highly inappropriate!

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 08:10 PM

I may vote for Obama. And if I do, it will be because of his position on a few issues, and not because I necessarily think he shows those qualities.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: heric
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 08:11 PM

Manfred I hope it is clear in translation that McCain intended no insult to Germans with that quote. If he had said fawning Frenchmen, that would have been an insult. It's in the idiosynchrocies of the language.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Alice
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 08:23 PM

heric, I don't understand your message. Fawning means fawning, whether applied to Germans or French. I don't think you can tweak what McCain said. It is what it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 08:26 PM

Not McCain, but his advisor Tucker Bounds was pretty clear. Just watch the video.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b94_1217184781

Don't forget: guest posts without a name risk being deleted. Please remember to sign in with a consistent name.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Alice
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 08:31 PM

OK, what Tucker said, then. It does not seem like McCain to call the Germans "fawning". I thought more of him than that. Makes sense it was a statement from Tucker.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Alice
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 08:36 PM

And this fawning comment from someone in his campaign is just one more example of how McCain's campaign is really running off track. The dignity he had at one time is slipping away fast.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 08:46 PM

I lost all respect for McCain when he accused Kerry of attacking the IQ of the soldiers in Iraq when he knew that the joke was on Bush.

Now, he blames Obama for the rising price of gasoline. He is pathetic in his desperation.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: heric
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 08:57 PM

I just meant that Americans could no more envision fawning Germans than they could grasp Tucker Bounds as a joke about being hungry. Putting the two words together is like a brain glitch in action.

But never mind McCain didn't say it in a senior moment, as I had thought. I just watched the video of that little punk. Fox News / Young Republicans in caricature. It's pathetic. McCain is letting the people around him make it appear that HE'S the novice in this race.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 08:58 PM

Obama has been to Walter Reed nine times. Its not that he won't visit wounded troops. The Republicans are lying.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 09:03 PM

And he visited them in Iraq. This kind of thing just makes McCain look very desperate.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST,Gil
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 09:04 PM

McCain should distance himself from Tucker Bounds.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: heric
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 10:10 PM

Although this is a pretty funny quote from Obama: "The world is waiting for America to re-engage in the Middle East," he said.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST,JWJ
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 01:45 AM

It's a painfully obvious case of sour grapes. If those Germans would have been cheering for McCain, they'd be "enthusiastic allies". Alas, they are enthusiastic about the wrong guy, thus they must be "fawning".

If that's the best they got, I think the next president will be called Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 06:22 AM

German proverb: What does the German Oak care which dog is pissing on it down there?

Wilfried

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Leadbelly
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 06:42 AM

Well done, Wilfried

Manfred

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST,5oag
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 08:23 AM

As a German i feel deeply insulted by McCain's - or at least one of his spokesman's - statement about fawning germans. He has no right to insult a whole nation. it is absolutely childish and inappropriate for someone who runs for presidency.
it does not matter if you're pro Obama or pro McCain to feel insulted.... after all people from germany are not gonna vote anyway

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 12:09 PM

Alice, you said it all--McCain's campaign has seriously gone off the rails since Obama won the nomination. He needs to do some housecleaning, and fast.

I already knew that McCain hadn't made the comment himself, but still, he has had too many harsh moments like this and his brand could be harmed if he can't get traction going in a different direction.

I'll be voting for Obama, but I still believe him to be a weak candidate for the general election.

That is, I thought that until I watched the McCain campaign go in the ditich this summer.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: DougR
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 12:15 PM

Appeared like fawning to me. Check out today's Doonsberry cartoon.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: heric
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 12:44 PM

I laughed out loud where John Stewart said their flags don't work - they couldn't light them. That WAS a strange image.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 12:51 PM

I don't get the connection, Doug. Today's Doonesbury cartoon was just sort of teasing Obama about using 'change' in every statement. Not even a real strong tease.

What happens in the mind to change 'overwhelming approval' and 'welcoming appreciation' to a loaded term like 'fawning'?

Obama was pretty well-received and his basic message admired in most of the places he visited. He is not president yet, and it would not be prudent to make serious & detailed policy plans & promises unless & until he DOES win. Therefore, simply suggesting a strong message of hope & **change** to other countries was prudent. Remember...McCain was suggesting that he NEEDED to go see places and learn and talk to them if he was to be a serious candidate. So...he did.

Gee, Senator McCain....you forgot to mention he was to do a mediocre job of it!

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 12:51 PM

"Although I do believe, basically nothing will change in US foreign politics."

Dang, I sure hope not! Indeed, I would assume that the election of Obama, or of any Democrat, had damn well better bring about a major about-face in US foreign policy.

Under the Bush administration, the United States started a war with a first-strike invasion for the first time in its history, made torture an explicit policy for the first time, and alienated virtually every allied nation (with the single exception of Mr. Blair's UK government).

A serious and abrupt reversal would only be a return to normal civilized behavior, and is the very least that I would expect from a President Obama, and for that matter even from a President McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Fawning Germans
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 01:02 PM

Actually, Poppa, I believe the US invasion of the Phillipines was similarly pre-emptive.

But basically, the rough-shod unilateralism, the going-it-alone-cowboy approach, the quickdraw militarism and the overall gloss of deception and dishonesty are what make other nations look at the United States as a loose cannon. That's a real drop in standing in the international community from being the bright hope for freedom around the world.

A