BS: Damian Green

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:55 AM

"miners strike"
LEST WE FORGET
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:56 AM

On a technicality

No, on the evidence.
As in a number of recent rape cases evidence was illegally withheld from the defence which when revealed undermined the case.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 08:02 AM

"THe relevant statement about the case is that there is no question that the suspect carried out the rapes"

I can see why little jimmie still wears short pants. He does not know the difference between fact and fiction.
And as you wish to make political capital out of anything and everything, try chewing on this

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 08:08 AM

"No, on the evidence."
The case was decided on the fact that the prosecution filed to expose the woman's mental history and that she had gont to the press - who's to blame her
Rape is the most unreported crime on the statute books due to the fact that if a woman takes a case to court she is raped all over again, this time by the defence - and in public
Why on earth do you defend this obscene inhumanity Keith - you never fail to do so, especially members of the establishment and the right are involved?
You make me thank God I'm not a Christian, if that's the way people display your religion.
Oh - I forgot how your Christianity has depicted the role of women
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 08:13 AM

No Jim.
He was tried.
The jury unanimously cleared him of all charges.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 10:25 AM

"The jury unanimously cleared him of all charges."
And the prosecution continued to insist that their case was a sound one
You choose only to suppost the authorities when it suits your inhuman agenda
The woman was extremely dunk and in no position to consent and immediately afterwards screamed of having been raped
She had a history of mental problems which should have been taken into account to explain here mental state at the time
If it were a man being defended all this would have been taken into consideration, as would the accused's record of loutish bullying during the Conservative bullying scandal that led to the suicide of one of the victims than
As I said, in today's system, a raped woman becomes the victim of having her life examined minutely while the sexual record of the man is never taken into consideration
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 10:38 AM

You choose only to suppost the authorities when it suits your inhuman agenda

I am not supporting the authorities.
I am supporting jury trial.
You would have had him convicted because, as a Tory, he must be guilty.
That was your position on Green too.
You have no concept of fairness or justice. Like Stalin, you prefer show trials where no actual evidence is required.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 10:39 AM

Jim,
And the prosecution continued to insist that their case was a sound one

Where did you get that from Jim?
Another made up fact!

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 10:56 AM

"Where did you get that from Jim?"
You've had the quote - another fact you have chosen to ignore
"I am supporting jury trial."
While ignoring the fact that women are the worst served by the jury system

"More than 80 per cent of the 1,600 respondents said they did not report their assault to the police, while 29 per cent said they told nobody – not even a friend or family member – of their ordeal."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/unreported-rapes-the-silent-shame-7561636.html

You are the first to defend the great and the good, as you did with Green, by undermining what has turned our to be a fact by denigrating the trustworthiness of the police

The twat who was acquitted appears to have raped a drunken woman and claimed "she asked for it"
THere is enough evidence that he has a record of going to extreme lengths to get his own way - he is a Tory bully - thaty should have been a factor in the verdict
Instead, the victims mental problems, which should have been used in her favour, becomes a factor in his acquittal
I make nothing up Keith, unlike you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 11:18 AM

Armstrong's previous record

"The allegations emerged as part of the “Tatler Tory” bullying scandal which blew up after Mark Clarke was accused of bullying fellow Tory activist Elliott Johnson who later committed suicide.
Armstrong furiously denied any wrong-doing at the time and no further action was taken.
But he was barred from last year’s Tory party conference and allowed to work again for Mr Mackinlay earlier this year.
Mr Halfon is said to have told the Government Whips Office that it was “ridiculous” that Mr Armstrong had been employed.
He urged that the party should cut all ties with Armstrong.
It is thought he also made his view personally known to Craig MacKinlay MP - who employed Mr Armstrong as his Chief of Staff - but nothing was done.
Last night Mr Harper told The Sun that “given the nature of the case and the fact that there is a criminal investigation, I am not going to comment.”
Mr Halfon declined the opportunity to comment.
Clarke - nicknamed the Tatler Tory after the society magazine tipped him for high office - was kicked out of the Tories for life after a storm of bullying allegations engulfed the party last autumn.
Mr Armstrong was banned from the Conservative Party Conference in 2015 but it last night emerged Tory HQ had lifted this bar for this year’s party gathering earlier this month.
On Tory source said last night: “He wasn’t barred - he was there. The ban was quietly lifted.”"

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 12:24 PM

"I am not supporting the authorities.
I am supporting jury trial.
You would have had him convicted because, as a Tory, he must be guilty.
That was your position on Green too.
You have no concept of fairness or justice. Like Stalin, you prefer show trials where no actual evidence is required."

What a completely, utterly ridiculous post, Keith.

So you're supporting jury trial, eh? Of course, there have never been miscarriages perpetrated by jury trials, have there, Keith? Derek Bentley. Timothy Evans. Barry George. Winston Silcott. Stephen Downing. Guildford Four. Birmingham Six...any more for any more...?

And one fine day you are really going to have to face the fact that Damian Green WAS guilty. Of lying, and *quite likely* of other things that he's denied that come under the heading of naughty-though-not-illegal, such as downloading and using pornography on his work computer and propositioning a young woman from his position of power. Whatever the irregularity of the process that exposed him, we've got rid of a bad man. You should at least be happy with that aspect of it, but nooooo, just sour grapes. I wasn't happy with the way that the Ceausescus were finally "seen to," but I was bloody glad to see the back of them. And we haven't forgotten how you tirelessly applied antisemitism smears all over those Labour politicians without a scrap of evidence bar the stretching of points and the adjusting of definitions over the things they said. You backed Green for the same reason that you accuse us of for going for him - simply because he's a Tory. You attacked those Labour people for the simple reason that they were Labour people. Shame on you.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 12:46 PM

If I was a tory, especially an activist, or party official;
I'd dread to have support from the likes of Keith & Iains....
I'd seriously want to distance the party from the hindrance of such embarrassing liabilities....

But of course I'm not and never will be..

So keep up the sterling good work chaps...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 12:50 PM

"Derek Bentley. Timothy Evans. Barry George. Winston Silcott. Stephen Downing. Guildford Four. Birmingham Six"
Must all have been guilty - they weren't drunken, Tory Hooray Henrys, or British bobbies smashing Blair Peach's head into a wall
Stands to reason
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 12:54 PM

There is a lot of crowing from the libtard lefties here over the resignation of Green. I wonder why they were so silent over the illegal war fought in Iraq, created by feeding the public a pack of lies.
How many thousands were murdered as a result of this?
How many ministerial resignations resulted?
Where were the cries of outrage?

I think their moral compass is in dire need of a reset.

I would say murder trumps pornography but not to the likes of the ratpack.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 01:00 PM

Steve,
And one fine day you are really going to have to face the fact that Damian Green WAS guilty.

I have. He lied. He was sacked.
I acknowledged all that when it happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 01:02 PM

Wrong Iains, I think you will find that many, many Labour party activists were fervently against the Iraqi War and said so at the time and on many occasions since.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 01:04 PM

Iains - keep it up.. you're on a roll here today...

I almost pity the tories having you as a loose-cannon foot soldier...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 01:07 PM

I went on a march against it. I'd personally like to see Blair and Bush in court for war crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 01:27 PM

"He lied. He was sacked."
When it was convenient to do so and if they could have continued to defend him he'd still be there
Blair was of the right, as were the Nazis who gassed all those millions - the highest achievement of industrial capitalism
Whatever he may have called himself - he was one of yours, as is Dubya, Trump, Fascist Maggie
You people tend to forget that when you attempt to hide behind it to defend the atrocities committed by Tories in their own name
Nobiody here has ever defended Blair - the worst thing that ever happened to the Labour Party
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 01:31 PM

we've got rid of a bad man.

How can we judge him as bad? He may be, but what do we know?

He lied because porn is an embarrassment. Most of us would fail such a test.

Quick really was bad. He lied maliciously against the Tories. He acted politically on behalf of Labour to mount illegal raids on Green's office and home, and imprisoned Green.

Keir Starmer as DPP said there was no justification for any of it. Quick's career was rightly blighted by his political misdeeds utterly unacceptable for any police officer.

When he then through sheer incompetence himself released secret and sensitive security information damaging anti-terror operations he was finally sacked.

There was no police interest in the legal porn they found in the illegal searches. Quick waited nine years for an opportunity to damage Green with it. It had no relevance to the other allegation against Green, which has not stood up.

He is under investigation and may well face charges.
Even his own union, the Police Federation, described his behaviour as "abhorrent."
He is a disgrace to the service and deserves to go down for what we know he has done. Nothing I have detailed is disputed.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 01:33 PM

"He lied. He was sacked."
When it was convenient to do so and if they could have continued to defend him he'd still be there

No. He admitted lying. For that you have to be removed from office.
Politicians rarely admit to their lies. I can not remember one since Profumo.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 01:53 PM

"For that you have to be removed from office."
But if they already knew he was guilty they should have resigned as well
Still no acknowledgement of the harassment of his fellow Tory - being dicovered using porn much more important because of the embarrassment to the party
You realise that if it turns out that Mayflower did know the whole edifice will come tumbling down?
Look forward to that one
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:02 PM

He's a bad man because he is one of the top politicians in this country, a man who we should be able to trust implicitly, who lied in order to save his own skin, regardless of the flak that was likely to hit others by dint of his lies. If you don't think that's enough to make him a bad man then I really do have to question your own moral standards.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:44 AM

Jim,
But if they already knew he was guilty they should have resigned as well

Guilty? There is no crime involved here.
He still denies ever seeing any porn on the office computer.
He no longer denies that the police told him about it, ending his career.

Still no acknowledgement of the harassment of his fellow Tory

I have acknowledged that the allegation has been made.
He says it is exaggerated, and it only amounts to mild flirtation anyway.

You realise that if it turns out that Mayflower did know the whole edifice will come tumbling down?

Yes. If she lied she goes. It is hard not to conclude that bringing down the government was the object of these well timed accusations all along.

Steve, he lied to avoid the embarrassment of being associated with porn.
Others lie about being secretly trans or bi.
Are they unfit for office?
Should the police out them all, or only if they are Tories?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:12 AM

" he is one of the top politicians in this country, a man who we should be able to trust implicitly"

For a well educated scientist you have the strangest ideas! You belong to a small thoroughly deluded sect that believes in the honesty of politicians. Or perhaps this is more of your whimsy waffle? As we have no way of determining if you are posting perceived fact or fantasy perhaps you should prefix your interminable babblings with a clue.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:20 AM

"Guilty? There is no crime involved here."
As a Government minister he was guilty of betraying the responsibility of his office by using material that degrades half the population of Britain and presents them as available sex objects for sale
You may not see that as culpable
Wonder how you'd react to a sex tablue like 'Bonkin' Round Bethlehem' or 'Gropin' at Gethsemane' or 'Shaggin' at The Last Supper'
This material degrades women and makes the world a very dangerous place for them - yet you defend the behaviour of these people both as users and possible predators because "they have committed no crimes" and prefer to condemn the whistleblowers who expose them for what they are doing.
"He says it is exaggerated, and it only amounts to mild flirtation anyway."
His word before the victim's to the very last - see what I mean?
You are, as are many of your claimed philosophy, a hypocrite of the first order
nd Ian continues his personal abuse without a single reference to the topi
What a pair
Bring back Teribus, at least he brought a degree of effort to abusive bullshitting
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:21 AM

There y'are Iains - a couple of typos for Christmas
Jim Caarroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:28 AM

Careful what you wish for Jim !!

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:29 AM

Jim,
As a Government minister he was guilty of betraying the responsibility of his office by using material that degrades half the population of Britain and presents them as available sex objects for sale

He denies using material that probably more than half the population use themselves anyway.

His word before the victim's to the very last - see what I mean?

No. I referred to the "victims" own description of what happened, which amounts only to mild flirtation. He says even that is exaggerated.

Bring back Teribus,

Yes please. And Ake.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:31 AM

Am I the only one here who believes that 'Iains' actually IS Teribus?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:37 AM

No Backswoodsman, I posted to that effect a when Iains raised his head
:-)

:-)

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:45 AM

I'm in good company then, Raggy! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 06:52 AM

A summary of the real issues at stake in this controversy over Green.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5208969/Police-lost-trust-says-ANDREW-MITCHELL.html

But of course the libtard lefty loonies on here are so busy squealing in their totally phony outrage over the affair that the main issues raised are carefully ignored. HOW TYPICAL!

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 07:00 AM

Who gives a flying fuck about the opinions of a disgraced politician reported in The Daily Shitrag? Who, that is, apart from brainwashed sycophants whose tongues are permanently employed tickling the anal sphincters of the Tories?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 07:10 AM

You never cease to appall me, Keith. You moan like a cry-baby about how people stoop to abuse and personal attacks against you, yet you call for the return of one of the most abusive people ever to disgrace this forum. In all the years he was here, not once did I ever see you castigating him for his terrible behaviour. Not once.

Know why, Keith? Let me tell you.

For exactly the same reason that you are so abysmally blind about Damian Green. He's one of you. On your side. All Tories, all right-wingers together. In the same vein you won't hear a word in favour of the Labour Party. You won't hear a word against the regime in Israel. You defend the lies of the brexiteers. And you wonder why you attract so much ridicule.

Go on, make an even bigger fool of yourself by telling us you only want those two people to have their "freedom of speech."

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 07:13 AM

"...whose tongues are permanently employed tickling the anal sphincters of the Tories?"

Yikes! Now there's a delightful image... (-:

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 07:27 AM

Yep, Andrew Mitchell. Another Tory. Another man embarrassed by his own bad behaviour. Another run-in with the police. Another man for whom the establishment had to crawl out of the woodwork in order to protect him. Just the man to give us dispassionate comment about his big mate Damian Green! And on the Mail website too! When will this comedy end!

"A thoroughly decent public servant," eh? And I see that Mitchell is defending the porn as perfectly legal (er, how would you know, Andrew? Surely you're not taking the word of one of those despicable coppers!) So that's all right then! Even if you're at it at work! Going for a young woman's knees and telling her what "an understanding wife" he has! And a liar to boot! Oh yes, thoroughly decent!

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: bobad
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 08:52 AM

I'm in good company then, Raggy!

Fools seldom differ.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 09:02 AM

Eh up Bobad, I've got a New Years Resolution for you.












Don't troll.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 10:56 AM

You're absolutely spot-on, Boob-ad - we have tons of evidence of that from Keefy, Aken-hate-on, Terribulus, Inanes (or Teribus-in-hiding), and....you.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 11:09 AM

What a nasty, untrue personal attack Steve.

I was a Labour voter in the Blair days and hope to be again.
I am neither right wing nor a convinced Tory.
I have many criticisms of Israel, and I have never defended anyone's lies.
And as usual, you can never produce any quote from me to justify your lies about what you claim I have said.

If you were capable of challenging what I actually say you would not have to resort to lying personal attack against me.
It is what you people always do when incapable of making any kind of a case. You abandon any pretence of discussing the issues because you can't.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 11:21 AM

Change the fuckin' record.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 11:37 AM

Sometimes it's best to just agree [whilst trying not to sound too condescending]
rather than challenge the personal reality a deluded person has created for him/her self...

That's what I've learnt from experts how to deal with my old mum's persistent irrational behaviour and diminishing grasp on truth...

So maybe the best way to cope with die hard tories and their shill supporters,
is to calmly repeat "yes dear, if you say so..."...????

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: bobad
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 12:46 PM

Change the fuckin' record.

And here we have the definition of irony, folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 01:26 PM

Change the fuckin' record.

Sorry, but if you tell the same old lies, inevitably they will be rebutted in the same old way.

Why don't you people change the record and start talking about the issues instead of always resorting to talking about me, and getting it wrong.

In the sprit of the season, I wish you all well and hope for more civilised discussion in the year to come.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 02:12 PM

I'm going to repeat this piece about your hypocrisy until you decide to desist from moaning about how nasty people are to poor little you:

"You moan like a cry-baby about how people stoop to abuse and personal attacks against you, yet you call for the return of one of the most abusive people ever to disgrace this forum. In all the years he was here, not once did I ever see you castigating him for his terrible behaviour. Not once."

Now either talk about Damian Green or just knock it off. Not an order. Just a polite invitation.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 05:08 PM

"
There y'are Iains - a couple of typos for Christmas
Jim Caarroll"

Personally old boy, I prefer Carols this time of year.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Dec 17 - 05:00 AM

Personal abuse means nothing to me except as an admission of defeat.
You resort to it when you have no other answer to what I actually say.

I never let it pass because it drives away decent people who want a proper discussion.
it is also against the rules of Mudcat, and I hope one day the mods will stop ignoring it.


I was talking about Damian Green. YOU changed the subject to me.
Respond to what I actually say instead of getting personal because you are too inadequate to argue your case.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Dec 17 - 05:40 AM

eh up Steve, get yourself to your nearest Lidl. I had a bottle of their 2016 Chateaunuef Du Pape yesterday, it was absolutely superb. I'm off there later to see if I can get another dozen.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Dec 17 - 05:56 AM

I'll reply to that in a totally non-abusive manner, thus.

Continually telling people that they are losing or admitting defeat, as you have done hundreds of times, is abusive.

Accusing us of driving people away, when at the same time calling for the return of the most abusive person to disgrace this forum in years, is abusive. In spite of hundreds, if not thousands, of his abusive posts you did not, to my recollection, upbraid him once. We can perhaps only conclude that that was because he was your brother-in-arms.

Telling people you've never met that they are inadequate is abusive.

Now I have a turkey carcass to dismember and a pudding to steam. Why don't you toddle off and reflect on the hypocrisy of your recent remarks. Do note that I'm not calling you a hypocrite here, but I am saying that there is hypocrisy in your remarks.

As today is my onomastico, my namensfeier, my namenstag, my imieniny, I shall indulge in as little controversy as possible from hereonin. And yes, my full first name is spelled with a "ph." I'm hoping for cake and Bual.