BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 12:00 AM

Well -- if you haven't seen it , now is the time to rob your piggy bank, beat up on your friends and neighbors and go and see this film. When is the last time you went to a movie and everyone clapped at the end ???????? Watch this and ask yourself how fast you can book yourself on the next plane out of here to a place with socialized medicine........

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Amergin
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 04:28 AM

I just watched it myself...and I find it absolutely shocking...

I found the part about the workers in Cuba to be both disgusting and touching at the same time....disgusting in why a country as poor as Cuba can provide such great healthcare to its citizens...and a country as rich as the US cannot it's mindblowing...and very touching about how the doctors assured them they would be alright now....everything would be ok....and the local firemen were saluting and honouring them...

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Maryrrf
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 08:36 AM

The film received a standing ovation when I saw it too - and this in conservative Richmond, Virginia!

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 10:14 AM

Rapaire - PM
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:22 AM

Takes actual thought and action and work to figure out how to fix a problem. Those are something politicians aren't trained for.

Besides, the US politicians have excellent, excellent health care insurance. I propose, and have for a long time, allowing them no more than what is standard in their district: in salary, in health insurance, in vacation, in retirement.

Betcha you'd see some changes....


---------------


I have access to the identical health plans that Senators and Congressmen enjoy. Still there is a divide between health care for anything connected to teeth gums and mandibular and cranial bones and the rest of the body. Basicly you are on your own when it comes to Dental.

My wife was part of the NIH study that proved that dental problems and heart health are in direct correlation. In fact even children in Washington DC have died from infected teeth.

Emergency rooms have one and only one policy for dental care. Extraction.

Seperate and meager dental coverage is another pathetic short coming in US health care.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 03:32 PM

greatidea, Donuel.......that might make a difference. One of the huge issues here,of course,is if you are insured there is not an incentive to do much to change the system and if you are not insured, you are frequently too beaten down to do anythng about it. I am so angry right now it makes me sick.   BUT I really do think that finally things might start to change -- someone commented way back now that the impact of this horrible system is beginning to work through and impact some of the wealthy - via increased prices for cars to offset cost of insurance - there may be changes coming.........

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Alice
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 04:26 PM

the system in this country is not going to be fixed until the insurance
companies are completely taken out of it... and that unfortunately
probably won't happen

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: coldjam
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 04:53 PM

Would I be too far out there to suggest we have enough knowlege to prevent most of the disease we experience?

Seems like the majority of health problems are self-induced. NOT ALL I rush to add.When we live contrary to what we know is healthy and then want someone else to foot the bill, I think we can see the beginning of the healthcare problem. I personally think it would be better dealt with by preventative measures such as healthy food for poor folks. For instance,we send 'em white milk and macaroni, when they should have yougurt and green fresh food.

That's not to say I'm opposed to doctors, I'm just saying we are "feeding" a system that doesn't seem to be working for us.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Alice
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 06:45 PM

interesting idea codjam, but how do you prevent accidental injuries with salad? ;-)
Healthier food and life is definitely helpful in preventing some disease, but
every pregnant woman will tell you she wants healthcare for the pregnancy and
delivery and every parent who has a kid break their collarbone falling off the jungle gym
and every aging person finding themselves with health problems that have developed
from a slip and fall or aging organs or dental problems... well, obviously, diet
and exercise alone are not going to be the answer for health care.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 07:20 PM

We should do what we can to be healthy, but there are many things over which we as individuals have no control. Our governments seem to be one of those things.

I thank God for Tommy Douglas every single time I go to a hospital or a clinic. He was relentless in pursuit of a medicare system, and we really have him to thank. If you feel one person can't change things, ya gotta give that a second, third, fourth . . . thought. Tommy Douglas did!

Yes, we lost lots of doctors. About 10,000 went to the US because wages were better. (Seems obvious they went for the money, but that's another thing.) However, if a country like Canada can do it then for sure the USA can.

By all means GET really really PISSED OFF. It's about time you did. Make your wannabe leaders commit to a plan for medicare. Do NOT let them give you the, "Well, yes, it is my intention to ensure the best health care possible for ALL Americans." That is just horseshit disguised as bullshit. Make them talk about it. FORCE the issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: goatfell
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 07:52 AM

that's what happens when you live in a capitalist sociaity

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 08:52 AM

Wasn't there a guitarist called michael Moore in the 70's who used to sing a song called The Circus is in town.

or does my memory betray me?

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 10:54 AM

Here is a memo that a consciencious Blue Cross employee has passed on to us so that we may see how they plan to defend themselves from the issues the movie Sicko poses...


http://www.michaelmoore.com/_images/splash/Capital_BlueCross_memo_2.jpg


the leaking of this memo was a very risky thing to do for our brave Blue Cross worker.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 10:01 PM

"Yes, we lost lots of doctors. About 10,000 went to the US because wages were better."

       Better hope they weren't replaced by doctors from the Muslim world, like the bombers in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:06 AM

Except for perhaps leaking it ahead of time I don't see that it took any particular courage for the Blue Cross worker to release the text. If they truly believe that Moore was blatantly one sided and failed to factor in their own most salient point, their defense is a valid approach.

Incidentally, I didn't realize that Blue Cross/Blue Shield is non-profit.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 08:47 AM

Many of the Doctors who left Canada did not do so for the money. Many left because of the bureaucratic overload, restrictions placed on how patients were dealt with, long hours, people abusing the system(Parents who dropped the kids off at emergency and went to play bingo) I know a number of doctors, now working in America, who would resent such blatant generalizations as "they went for the money". Most did not.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Bee
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:30 AM

http://www.northernlife.ca/News/LocalNews/2007/04-18-07-docsUSA.asp?NLStory=04-18-07-docsUSA

Some perspective on doctors moving to different countries. I selected a few quotes from the article, which concerns Ontario.

If Canadian-educated doctors who were born in the United States are eliminated from the statistics, the number practicing in the United States goes down to one in 12.

The tide is turning, however. In 2004, the number of Canadian-trained doctors returning to Canada outnumbered those leaving – 262 left and 317 returned.
Blayney himself was lured away from his country of origin – Ireland – to work in Canada in 1988.
"They (Ireland) lost me, along with maybe about 10 percent (of doctors) at the time," said Blayney.
"It was a time when a lot of people left and they didn't come back. It still happens now. There is a movement of doctors."

Blayney isn't too concerned his students will want to work in the United States. NOSM students are mostly from Northern Ontario and many want to stay here and help alleviate the doctor shortage, he said.

Some medical graduates go to the United States so they can earn a lot of money to pay off their debt load, he said.

"One of the important things is to make sure there are good bursaries and that tuition fees aren't rising excessively, and the debt that they have after four years of student life is less than $100,000," he said.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: coldjam
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:31 PM

"From: Alice - PM
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 06:45 PM

interesting idea codjam, but how do you prevent accidental injuries with salad? ;-)
Healthier food and life is definitely helpful in preventing some disease, but every pregnant woman will tell you she wants healthcare for the pregnancy and delivery and every parent who has a kid break their collarbone falling off the jungle gym and every aging person finding themselves with health problems that have developed
from a slip and fall or aging organs or dental problems... well, obviously, dietand exercise alone are not going to be the answer for health care."

I agree we need a machanic for our bodies from time to time,(and probably salad insurance) but most of the ill-heath industry feeds off our laziness and inability to afford healthy food. By-the-way I was pregnant twice, and didn't have "health care". I used a naturalpathic doc the first time ($500) and a mid-wife the second ($about the same) . I had em both at home. I realize some woman have problems & need serious intervention, but I'm also saying some of those problems are preventable and some more of them are caused by the health care "professionals" they put their trust in. Many of these guys are promoting (knowingly or possibly unknowingly) a lot of problems by pushing drugs (not that I'm across the board against drugs) and certain procedures.

I guess my point is: The industry has ulterior motives and nothing will be fixed until that's addressed...And frankly I think it's too deeply entrenched in our society and too many people have bought into it completely so it won't be addressed.

Alice, are you trying to tell me something by calling me "cod"jam? Do I sound fishy to you? Don't be Koi, you can tell me...:)

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Bee
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:56 PM

Ha! Coldjam, it must be the blue font - I read it as 'cod'jam as well; just assumed you were a Maritimer like myself, or a Newfoundlander.

I'm not so sure as many of our health problems are self-caused as we are led to believe. There's a certain joy governments and health pundits seem to take in accusing us of sinning against our bodies, while ignoring the stew of chemicals, hormones, bad water, bad air, and nutrient poor vegetation they thrust in our direction. I know my grandparents/uncles/aunts ate far more and far fattier than I or my friends do, and although they worked hard, I've worked as physically hard myself. A few of them were fat, most were thin: why? Many of them smoked or chewed tobacco, none had lung cancer, except the ones who worked in coal mines; why?

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:23 PM

Interesting that the angle that Blue Cross memo identifies as a good way of diverting attention from the issue of the need for universal health care in any civilised country (ie the fact that unhealthy lifestyles are the source a lot of ill-health) has come up here so rapidly.

To me it seems a completely irrelevant issue. Obviously it'd be great if people could live more healthy lives, and if they did that might cut down health-care costs, but that doesn't in any way mean that access to health-care isn't desperately important for everyone.

And in fact it doesn't even follow that healthier living would reduce the need for health-care - it might even work the other way round. Maybe if we all lived healthier lives we'd all live a lot longer, and that's mean a whole lot more people needing medical help in their later years.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Bee
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:45 PM

It's been noted in Canada, McGrath, that the health system is seeing far more joint, muscle, and soft tissue injuries in the fifty plus age group, as a result of people indulging in recreational/exercise sport activities far later in life than they used to.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 12:09 AM

The issue here is corporate greed by the HMO's and Big Pharma. Micheal nailed it.
The doctors are seduced by lavish sales pitches and the politicians rely on big insurance companies to finance their campaigns.

We do not have the best health care in the US. If it doesn't reach the population, what good is the tech advancement? Research and Development for the wealthy.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 01:23 AM

If You Have Health Care, The Terrorists Win

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: coldjam
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 09:02 PM

Haven't seen the movie yet...does he hit on the Universities getting public funds for research and then selling the results privately?

Don't laugh, but Michael Chrichton's latest novel really gives a revealing look at the industry in story form. I think it's called "Next".It's really his take on the genetic thing, but whilst doing that he's revealing research techniques which overlap the whole Pharma karma thing.

Bee-I like fish-does that count? :)
You said:I'm not so sure as many of our health problems are self-caused as we are led to believe. There's a certain joy governments and health pundits seem to take in accusing us of sinning against our bodies, while ignoring the stew of chemicals, hormones, bad water, bad air, and nutrient poor vegetation they thrust in our direction. I know my grandparents/uncles/aunts ate far more and far fattier than I or my friends do, and although they worked hard, I've worked as physically hard myself. A few of them were fat, most were thin: why? Many of them smoked or chewed tobacco, none had lung cancer, except the ones who worked in coal mines; why? "

I think that kinda proves my point. Should we just suck up everything they sell us?

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 10:05 PM

My husband and I were invited to go and see Sicko tonight but we had just seen it so we compromised on dinner. Our friends are wonderful ...... they were asking me during the meal if health care in the UK was really like the movie and I had the exquisite pleasure of saying YES-----is it perfect? NO!   Do we have to wait for non life threatening illnesses - YES. Is it better than the US syste - YES!!!!!PMme and I would be glad to tell you why

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 07:02 PM

Here's a page with graphs showing the amount of money spent on health in a range of countries around the world.

The figures for the USA for spending per head is two or more times as high as pretty well everybody else, for a health system that effectively abandons large sections of the community.   It strikes the Americans really are getting ripped off by their health industry.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 08:56 PM

The high cost of health care in the US should be no surprise--Doctors are represented by the AMA, which is possibly the strongest union in the country; drug companies have been issued a license to steal and hospitals routinely gouge anyone 9in sight. Add to this the insurance companies, who have a vested interest in maximizing profits (and little incentive to cure people) and you have...what we have. Pathetic, ain't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 08:58 PM

Amazing! Here's a thread in which everyone agrees.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 07:14 PM

Here's a piece in today's Guardian by an American mother living in England, with a moving tribute to the way NHS provision helped the family during her young sons terminal illness.

A precious provision:

"...I'm from the US, where the possibility of receiving such comprehensive and hassle-free care is a pipedream.

It's difficult to say how different our experience would have been had we lived in the US...For most of Dill's life I was a member of an internet support group, made up of some 200 families around the world with Dill's condition. US members had a unique theme, and it was all about insurance.

Their sometimes desperate, usually middle-of-the-night messages focused on who was covered for what, how to work the system, how to cope when you had no insurance, how to get the piece of equipment that would greatly enhance your child's quality of life. For those who could get ample coverage, the form-filling was soul destroying. Many families had to routinely do fundraising. At least one of the families was trying to move to Britain specifically for the healthcare...."

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 08:26 PM

My father's illness and passing not too long ago filled me with a horror and contempt of OUR way of medicine in the United States. It is a broken system at most if not all levels, and in order to fit into it, a lot of good intentions get bent.
It disturbs me too much to this day to spend more time talking about it. It needs a thorough analysis and re-vamping from the bottom up, and a few lopping off of heads at the top.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Peace
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 04:37 PM

Throw the fu#kin' drug company lobbyists OUT of government offices.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 05:19 PM

A few years back, I sat in my manual wheelchair the in hallway of our apartment and watched while a repairman from Care Medical Equipment Co. installed new batteries in my electric-powered wheelchair. The new batteries (2) were priced at $240.00 apiece. I asked the repairman why batteries for powered wheelchairs cost so much;   much more than automobile batteries. He answered me quite frankly, "Anything related to medical equipment is hugely overpriced. The manufacturers and the retailers of medical and orthopedic equipment figure that it's going to be paid for by some medical insurance company anyway."

My niece's husband, Tim, got a job in which one of his duties was working with and installing batteries. I asked him about different kinds of batteries. He looked at the ones in my power chair and told me, "Those are just standard 12-volt deep-cycle marine batteries." When I told him what I had been charged for them, he just about keeled over.

The next time I needed to replace the batteries, I called Tim. He picked up a pair and installed them for me. $50.00 for the pair. He got them for me wholesale, but even if I'd had to pay full retail price, it would have been less that a quarter of what I'd paid Care Medical.

They worked just fine. Same batteries. Different labels.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 01:01 AM

There you go -- a ripoff........

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 12:04 PM

I have to wait for my appointment half the time due to numerous drug sales people going in and out of my doctor's office.

god damn the pusher man.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 08:06 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies/07/15/moore.gupta/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 07:46 PM

CNN apologizes for attack on Sicko

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=217

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: bobad
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 08:02 PM

"Throw the fu#kin' drug company lobbyists OUT of government offices."

Lobbying is nothing but influence peddling, make it illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 12:33 AM

Lobbying itself shouldn't be such a bad thing. Ideally, it is meant to educate, to bring all the information to someone in power so he or she can make appropriate decisions.

But like 'lawyer' and 'politician', it has become a dirty word.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 12:36 AM

Hi. I am from pharmaceutical Company X. Before we proceed, here are the keys to your new Mercedes. Now, what I'm here to see you about . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 12:43 AM

But Peace, that is an abuse of lobbying. It is NOT what it was meant to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 12:53 AM

I understand that, Eb. But that's what lobbying has become all too often.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 02:46 AM

I just tripped over this article and decided to cut and paste it in its entirety.



Of Battered Wives and the US Congress      
Written by Stephen P. Pizzo   
Tuesday, 17 July 2007
by Stephen P. Pizzo

Is it just me, or have you noticed it too? Something is afoot — maybe. All of a sudden I am reading and seeing on TV individuals who wear suits and can quote the US constitution from memory, talking about the impeachment of George W. Bush and his sidekick.

My first clue was when I read last week that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told a radio station, "We can't take impeachment off the table."

Holy whiplash, Batman, isn't that exactly the opposite of what she's been saying since crowned Speaker last January? What happened there?

Then there was the extraordinary interview Bill Moyers did last week with John Nichols of The Nation magazine and Bruce Fein, a former Justice Department official during the Reagan administration who drafted articles of impeachment against Bill Clinton.

[Link that was here removed.]

Neocons may dismiss Nichol's views as those of a "known liberal," but what about Fine? No lib there. Fine is the guy conservatives tapped to craft and pen the case against Clinton. Now he wants to do the same thing for Bush – and for precisely the same reasons.

Both men explained that impeachment, always framed by mainstream media as a "constitutional crisis," is actually precisely the opposite. Impeachment, they explained, is the solution to a constitutional crisis. The real constitutional crisis occurs when Congress fails to protect and maintain the balance of power the Founders enshrined in the constitution.

"The Founders gave congress the power to impeach as the remedy to an imperial presidency," Fine noted.

Of course those on the right will claim that any talk of impeaching Bush and Cheney is purely political – as though that were something bad. Hello! Of course it's political. It's a political process created and delineated by the cornerstone political document – our US constitution. You remember that the document, the user manual for our democracy. (Maybe it would be more popular if the Founders had entitled it, "Democracy for Dummies.")

Back when Republicans pushed to impeach Bill Clinton for perjury Democrats screamed, "politics," too. But Fine explained that Bill Clinton got himself in that jam by trying to put himself above the law. Never mind that what he lied about was hardly a matter of national security, all Fine cares about it [sic., s/b is] that he lied, committed a crime – perjury. The rest is simply back-story.

Fine says that there is now plenty of evidence that Bush and Cheney too have lied — more than once and about matters far more serious than Clinton's little walk on the wild side. Fien says that is why Congress should have begun impeachment hearings long ago. Not so much to remove Bush and Cheney from office, but as way of laying down constitutional markers, lines in the sand over which Congress was not about to allow the executive branch to simply ignore.


Fien adds that even now that their term in office is short, Congress should still proceed with impeachment hearings in order to reestablish and reinforce the constitutional balance – the whole "co-equal branches" business – as the Founders intended.

But Congress still has not done so. Will they?

Democrats worry that trying to impeach Bush and Cheney would blow back on them in the 2008 elections, by making them appear petty and politically motivated. A perception which is, of course their own damn fault. If they hadn't spent the last six years acting like such a pack of conniving little weasels maybe we'd be less likely to jump such a conclusion.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 08:36 PM

"Holy whiplash, Batman, isn't that exactly the opposite of what she's been saying since crowned Speaker last January? What happened there?"

Well, a person may walk in with one idea, and then change their mind when they receive new data. Despite the fact that political opponents will try to make hay out of this by accusing them of "flip-flopping," this is what rational people do.

I can't recall now what the issue was, but at one point, Arnold Schwarzenegger tried to get something passed in the California legislature, and suddenly there was a storm of opposition—from the people at large. Arnie thought about it, then said, "Okay, scratch that! Obviously, the people don't want it!" Because of things like this, I've come to the conclusion that Arnie is a helluva lot better governor than I expected him to be.

When Nancy Pelosi became Speaker of the House, she came in with an agenda. She's managed to get several of her agenda items passed, but the big one is ending the war and bringing the troops home. She's meeting lots of opposition on the Right, but she's still working hard at it. Now, her thinking on the "Impeach Bush" issue was that this would tie up Congress and be a major distraction, preventing the other items from being acted on. And, of course, she would have been right. But—she notes the clamor from a sufficiently large number of people to begin to reconsider the matter of impeachment. A substantial number of people seem to want it. So, like Arnie, she reconsiders the matter (note the literal meaning of the word: "re-consider.").

Elected officials are supposed to be responsive to what the people want.

That's what happened there.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 03:40 AM

I agree. BUT, isn't it a great article?

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 06:34 PM

Can't argue with that...

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: GUEST,street cred
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 03:45 PM

Sicko is one dvd that the Chinese dvd pirates don't sell on the streets of Manhatten. Maybe they're sold out.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: DougR
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 04:24 PM

I agree with Kent. Our US healthcare system is not perfect but I don't believe it is as bad as the majority of you think. My first wife was in the hospital at one time for three months and the majority of the time in Intensive Care. The hospital bill was over a million dollars. It cost us not one dime because costs were covered by our HMO and Medicare. I have medicare/HMO and medical services provided by the VA. I have no complaints.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: pattyClink
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 05:26 PM

Doug, I'm real glad you have wraparound coverage, but most people don't. We had 1 emergency room visit, 1 week of hospitalization and some doctor visits this year. Out-of-pocket costs for deductibles and 'co-pays' so far have been $6,800.00 although we have insurance. This is serious money to us.

Besides that aspect, there are other deep problems in our system. If a doctor prescribes a vitamin or nutrient(for example glucosamine for an arthritic joint) it's not reimbursable because it's not a patentable drug concocted by a pharmaceutical company. If a doctor wants to use any progressive therapy besides drugs and cutting you open, chances are his patients are on their own to pay for it although they have 'insurance'.

Our care is 'rationed'. As little as possible is done until there is a big crisis, and then no cost is spared. Preventive care is a joke, our 'plan' pays for one 'free' cholesterol test per five years.

There are shortages of every kind of medical specialist. Yet years ago when we were students, we were actively discouraged from going into medicine, seats were severely restricted in all medical schools, to make sure there was a small supply of doctors so they could all be paid well. Now we have a giant aging population and not enough doctors. Would-be nurses are turned away from schools because there are not enough nurses trained as instructors.   

We all thought the AMA knew best for a long time. We were all wrong, and I'm really glad Sicko is getting people to talk about it.   The one simple truth the movie brought out--care should be about making people well, not about screwing them out of money. Radical concept-- how used to this money-grubbing system we have become.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 06:36 PM

DougR, I'm now a genuine disabled American vet, certified as such by the VA. I have Blue Cross PPO coverage through my job for both me and my wife; as such I pay either $10 or $20 for prescription medicine co-pays and $20 for an office visit co-pay. I can afford this.

I could NOT afford the meds I take were I retired or unemployed. My AO-related diabetes would cost me a lot of money, especially since the VA has (so far) turned down my claim in this area -- not 'Nam, so it's not presumptive, but the DMZ in Korea, where the burden of proof is on the applicant even if you served there during the period that the DoD admits they were spraying AO.

Nor is the service-related hearing loss yet granted -- even though I have a audiology test done in Basic Training that shows no loss, and one did at separation from active duty that shows a medium to severe loss.

My allowed disability is...tinnitus, about which little or nothing can be done.

The City is considering changing the health coverage in the 2009 fiscal year. If they do, it will cost me more. And not just me, a department head -- it will cost the single mothers more, it will cost the sewer workers more, the cops, the firefighters, the bus drivers. My raise will 1.9% next year -- the medical costs to the city went up 19.97%.

And I'm talking about the people who HAVE health care coverage. My nephew turns 19 in November, and unless he's in school he won't have health coverage.... And he's not alone, not by a very, very long shot.

Something has to be done and done soon. Consider this: when a hospital treats someone who doesn't or can't pay, you and I do. We pay in higher medical costs either directly or indirectly by higher premiums (which we might pay directly or through a lower cost of living increase).

WHAT that something is I don't know. Perhaps a sort of "minimum health care safety net" where someone admitted to the hospital would be put into a ward, no television, no phone, just basic health care. Perhaps some sort of national wellness program of mandatory inoculations and nationally-funded smoking cessation programs. Perhaps this program would require you to make minimum payments and if you smoke you pay more.

I don't know the answers, but I can see the problems. And something HAS to be done.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 11:06 PM

I just got the word from my insurance company -- my son, who is learning disabled and a horrible student, will be officially uninsured on his 19th birthday in late September. My younger daughter is kicked off as on September 1 because she has graduated school - the only good news for her is that her new job will provide insurance effective late September......I guess we will find some catastrophic coverage for the three weeks of September. My older girl is still offically 'employed' by my company so I can pay her minimum wage for 20 hours a week and provide her medical insurance -- a healthy 25 year old at nearly $400 a month......

Something MUST be done.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore 'Sicko'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 11:15 PM

Well, well, Doug R has had a good experience with the US medical system. I'll have to admit, that clinches it--obviously problems with the system don't exist. And anybody who says they do is a pinko Socialist--or whatever the current term of endearment is.