Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 09:04 AM

Mao Tse Tong and Joseph Stalin were responsible for more state sponsored murders than any other leaders in history, and they were atheists--so don't be so smug. And genocide is always done to achieve political goals, not relgious ones. Religion is brought into it as a subterfuge.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 09:23 AM

Tell that to the Spanish Inquisition. (Sorry!)

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 11:17 AM

It seems to me that this string has now degenerated into a forum for the usual suspects (you know who you are) to vent their own particualr brand(s) of politics.

The teacher in question has been sentenced to 15 days jail time (5 of which have been considered time served, so she has to do 10 days inside)she will then be deported. End of story.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 11:18 AM

The end of the story will be when the teacher is back in Britain, imo.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Amos
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 11:26 AM

Note that in typical mob-think form, a number of people are calling for her execution for insulting Mohammedan beliefs. Yet no-one seems to have noticed that the names for the bear were offered by Muslim children, who are quite accustomed to seeing objects of affection such as fathers and uncles and brothers be labeled "Mohammed". So I would say the case against her has no bearing, so to speak, and the travesty of justice in the offing would be unbearable. I hope she comes back to England soon.

A

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Goose Gander
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 11:44 AM

There's a riot going on in Khartoum.

But slandering all of "organized religion" (disorganized religion is OK? that would be pentacostalists, i presume) is the sort of extravagant posturing that annoys me so much in athiests. Faith has been the organizing principle for human society throughout most of human history. For this reason, you can say that EVERYTHING came out of religion - culturally speaking. Sure, there's a lot of baggage we'd be better off without, but twentieth-century attempts to organize societies around race or ideology haven't exactly been a picnic in the park, either.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 12:18 PM

"But slandering all of "organized religion" (disorganized religion is OK? that would be pentacostalists, i presume) is the sort of extravagant posturing that annoys me so much in athiests."

Is that all atheists or just some?

"Faith has been the organizing principle for human society throughout most of human history."

Is that the only organising principle or one of a number?

"For this reason, you can say that EVERYTHING came out of religion - culturally speaking."

You can say what you like, religions do that, but it doesn't really add anything to human understanding.

"attempts to organize societies around race or ideology haven't exactly been a picnic in the park, either."

So that's how things are organised.

Thanks

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Goose Gander
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 12:42 PM

Les -

"Is that all atheists or just some?"

Mainly the Christopher Hitchens variety.

"Is that the only organising principle or one of a number?"

The primary one, I believe.

"You can say what you like, religions do that, but it doesn't really add anything to human understanding."

Huh?

"So that's how things are organised."

Precisely, like picnics in parks. Complete with gulags, forced marches, ethnic cleansing, total war, and other fun activities.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: melodeonboy
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:00 PM

'ere, I thought I asked for a list of songs!

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Goose Gander
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:06 PM

And I gave you one!

RIOT IN CELL BLOCK NINE
The Blues Brothers / Riot In Cell Block Number Nine

It was December the sixth 1983
I was doin' time for armed robbery
At four in the morning, I was sitting in my cell
I heard a whistle blow, and I heard somebody yell

There's a riot going on
There's a riot going on
There's a riot going on
Up in cell block number nine

Our warden said Come out with your hands up in the air
If you don't stop this riot you're all gonna get the chair
And Scarface Jones said It's too late to quit
Pass the dynamite, don't you give me any shit

There's a riot going on
There's a riot going on
There's a riot going on
Up in cell block number nine

On the 47th hour the nerve gas got our men
We're all back in our cells but every now and then

There's a riot going on
There's a riot going on
There's a riot going on

Up in cellblock number nine
Up in cellblock number nine
Up in cellblock number nine

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: melodeonboy
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:10 PM

You did indeed, Michael. Coincidentally, one that's on my band's playlist!

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:41 PM

As per the Inquisition, it was very much politically driven, and, in the same way, today, in Khartoum, certain of the Imans are exploiting the religious hold that they have, for political objectives--waving the bloody shirt, as it were.

The point has been made that people like you, leveller, are much more interested in expressing indignation about what happened 500 years ago, than in dealing with anything that is happening today.

Darfur is the new genocide. The ugly bottom line is that, unless we can find a way to stop it, there will be more genocides. The Twentieth Century set the precedent--when two groups compete for land and resources, the group with the upper hand can prevail by simply exterminating the other--Hitler famously said, "Who remembers the Armenians?"

Now the list has been expanded--who can name the dead?

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:44 PM

The people unlawfully detained by the USA in its unlawfully occupied territory at Guantanamo bay are in a rather different category.

The governments of the territories of which those people are citizens should make and do make representations to the USA - and indeed should send a gunboat if they had one big enough!

Your point exactly?

Amos - you have expressed better than I one of the points I was trying to make.

Michael Morris - you seem to be a theist. I am not an athiest. I am vaguely theist. But it is so rare to see any organised religion live up to the best standards to which it might aspire that you must surely concede?

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:45 PM

*BBC announcer* "and now, here is a brief summary of the news"

"'ere, I thought I asked for a list of songs! "

"It seems to me that this string has now degenerated into a forum for the usual suspects (you know who you are) to vent their own particular brand(s) of politics."

"that was the news, the shipping forecast in a moment"

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:47 PM

"Is that all atheists or just some?"

Mainly the Christopher Hitchens variety.

The thing about atheism is that it isn't a collection of ideas or a way of organising anything. It is simply a personal judgment that I don't believe their is a god who knows things and does things.

"Is that the only organising principle or one of a number?"

The primary one, I believe.

How about the ownership of land and the organisation of food production?

How about the development of Law.

How about the rules of inhertance

"You can say what you like, religions do that, but it doesn't really add anything to human understanding."

Huh?

Yes, fair comment
EVERYTHING came out of religion
I don't think it's true enough to be much help.

"So that's how things are organised."

Precisely, like picnics in parks. Complete with gulags, forced marches, ethnic cleansing, total war, and other fun activities.

Are Race and ideology the only way things are organised? I suppose I think like many people that democracy is the worst system except for all the rest.

The central point for me is not any particular religion. We could probably make a list of religions that at one time or another have been good for people. The real problem is to stand back and look at lots and lots of them, even sects within the same believe system. Their are all sorts of contradictory views of history and ways of treating each other. How does that make any sense?

Just try exploring the concept of the Christian Holy Trinity.

Some people do bad things when they are unaccountable. All totalitarian systems have this tendency - some are religious and some are not. Thats why poor old democracy remains the only bet.

Sorry I didn't mean to be so rude and unpleasant

Cheers

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:49 PM

Speaking of rude and unpleasant (reminds me of a folk song, that) and the request for a list of songs

"My Friend the witchdoctor"

(Gets coat...)

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,highlandman
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:57 PM

"Mohammed is a very common first name, while Jesus isn't - at least in non-hispanic cultures."
Just to clarify something... actually 'Jesus' in a variant form is one of the most popular male names in English-speaking countries. Only we spell it 'Joshua.' It's just a different transliteration.
-Glenn

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 02:04 PM

Yeshua.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 02:18 PM

WITCH DOCTOR
(Ross Bagdaserian Jr.)

David Seville - 1958

Also recorded by:
AC Rock; Joanie Bartels; Cartoons DK; The Chipmunks;
Devo; Hit Crew; Don Lang; Sha Na Na; Tombstones.


I told the witch doctor
I was in love with you
I told the witch doctor
I was in love with you
And then the witch doctor
He told me what to do

He said that

Ooo eee,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang...
Ooo eee ,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla ,bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang

I told the witch doctor
You didn't love me true
I told the witch doctor
You didn't love me nice
And then the witch doctor
He game me this advice

He said that

Ooo eee,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang...
Ooo eee ,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla ,bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang

You've been keeping love from me
Just like you were a miser
And i'll admit i wasn't very smart
So i went out and found myself
A guy that's so much wiser
And he taught me the way to win your heart

My friend the witch doctor
He taught me what to say
My friend the witch doctor
He taught me what to do
I know that you'll be mine
When i say this to you

Ooo eee,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang...
Ooo eee ,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla ,bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang

You've been keeping love from me
Just like you were a miser
And i'll admit i wasn't very smart
So i went out and found myself
A guy that's so much wiser
And he taught me the way to win your heart

My friend the witch doctor
He taught me what to say
My friend the witch doctor
He taught me what to do
I know that you'll be mine
When i say this to you

Ooo eee,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang...
Ooo eee ,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla ,bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang

It was recorded in the UK by Don Lang & his Frantic Five, last heard of playing in the Savages backing Screaming Lord Sutch!

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 05:20 PM

Been watching the news? It says it all really.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 05:42 PM

Yes, it's being reported that their are mass protests in Khartoum about the "leniency" of the sentence. Evidently something harsher would be preferred. It's not surprising that given the opportunity that those who would like to embarrass the British and by extension other Western countries are making use of this incident.

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and the new British delegation of Moslem members of Parliment will be able to secure a release of the teacher in question, and spirit her away before a mob succeeds in exercising corporal punishment.

I wish them well.

I am tempted to wish that a goodly portion of the posters on this thread were in Khartoum as well. But that would be wrong!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 06:27 PM

Judge not, lest ye be judged"

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Dec 07 - 08:54 PM

refreshed for more general bashing.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 09:07 AM

Alan Parson's Project: There But For The Grace Of God

What kind of madness rule the world today
What earthly reason holding sway
There is no heaven at all
For some may weep
And some may sleep
While some may rise
And some may fall

No one is an island
No one born alone
No man can turn the tide of fortune on his own
Though some may dare to try

Say there but for the grace of god go you my friend
Say there but for the grace of god go i
Go i

And so we live in lives of fantasy
And dream of dreams that hold the key
And we follow like sheep
We thread the path
That leads to thee
We seek the soul that is not ours to keep

No one is an island
No one born alone
No man can turn the tide of fortune on his own
Though some may dare to try

Say there but for the grace of god go you my friend
Say there but for the grace of god go i
Go i

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 09:34 AM

Nice!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 08:39 PM

Geez, doesn't anyone above care? The British teacher has been pardoned and is on her way back home. I would think that act would merit a word or two, if not a verse.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 03:10 AM

Things have changed Charlie - there was a time when the incident would have merited at least one gunboat.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 03:16 AM

I expect that she'll now be given huge amounts of money from a redtop rag for her story. Watch this space.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 03:16 AM

Hmm, which is more dangerous, one gunboat or what they did send? I did however wonder about the decision to send a male and a female peer, in view of the perceived commonly found Islamic views on women, but it seems to have worked.

It was however nice to see the youngish British Muslim (was he from Birmingham) on the news talking sense about moderation and rationality.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 09:21 AM

I agree that the British strategy was effective this time around, much more effective than in say 1885 (Wikipedia):

"The Battle of Khartoum or Siege of Khartoum lasted from March 12, 1884 to January 26, 1885. It was fought in and around Khartoum between Egyptian forces led by British General Charles George Gordon and a Mahdist Sudanese army led by the Mahdi Muhammad Ahmad. Khartoum was besieged by the Mahdists and defended by a garrison of 7,000 Egyptian and loyal Sudanese troops. After a ten-month siege the Mahdists finally broke into the city and the entire garrison was killed."

By George, it works for me!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 11:08 AM

"Hmm, which is more dangerous, one gunboat or what they did send?"

Two members of the House of Lords..... *LOL*

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: melodeonboy
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 03:55 AM

Mohammed The Teddy Bear

(To the tune of Teddy Bears' Picnic)

If you go down to Sudan today, you're in for a big surprise
If you go down to Sudan today, you'd better go in disguise
For every bear that ever there was
Is shitting his pants for certain because
They're out to get a teddy bear called Mohammed

If you're a teddy bear in Sudan, you'd better watch what you do
If you're a teddy bear in Sudan, you know that they're after you
So change your name to Edward Bear
Or Jim or Frank or Alistair
Whatever you do don't call yourself Mohammed

Life was good for teddy bears
Before the men with beards began to rant and shout
If they catch you unawares
They'll tear your fur right off and pull your stuffing out

If you've got a prophet's name
They'll pull your eyes right out and toss you in the air
So just wait till they're at prayers
Then creep off down the stairs and be happy little teddy bears


Additional verse if required:

If you go down to Sudan today, you'd better not go alone
It's lovely down in Sudan today but safer to stay at home
For tempers there are getting hot
They're trying to get the teacher shot
Because they called a teddy bear Mohammed

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 02:23 PM

Excellent!

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Peace
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 10:16 AM

Second that.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 01:51 PM

Thank heaven, the good lady is safe once again. In honor of her return, I would suggest the Minister be saluted with what we Yanks call the "Bronx Cheer," followed by a revised version of "Anne Boleyn," to wit: "With HIS Head Tucked Underneath HIS arm..."