BS: British criminality seems to be getting

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: ard mhacha
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 04:39 AM

Sorry, Teribus another teen stabbed to death in London last night, this has to be serious.
Talking to returning exiles they tell me the streets are not as safe as they were in the 1960-70s, going out at night a taxi is the preferred choice getting from A to B, they live there they know.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 05:13 AM

Funny how so many members are quick to scream their not racist! But as the saying goes " a guilty conscience needs no accuser.."


I once lived in a really quiet area until mob rule took over. When any of you start this racist rubbish, stop and realise that there has always been a higher level of racism among the coloured community. Africans can't tolerate Jamaicans here were I live. I vividly recall a guy here who gunned down a woman at a christening party and then stabbed a pastor's daughter.

He was only 16 when he shot the lady in the head as she cradled a baby in a community centre.Three weeks later, he dragged 18-year-old student from a car and knifed her in the heart for "disrespecting" him. He was an illegal immigrant. He was given a jail sentence. Asked why he did it, his reply was "because he could". I am using this example because in happened in my area. So do you suggest I forget it ever happened ? do you suggest I whisper about it because it's not nice to talk about coloured people in such a manner ?


I am sick to death of reading about people like this who come to the UK and make it a worse place, we offer them homes, financial help through the benefit system, free medical treatment, education, employment, training and a better environment but its not enough for them. They repay the British people by robbing & murdering.... I'm not racist just fed up with it being slung back in our faces like this...... He was the son of an illegal immigrant from Angola who had an asylum application rejected. Personally I would banish certain human rights and replace them with firmer laws but who am I to have an opinion? just the basic tax payer. maybe if we followed other countries in their examples of dealing with immigrants then this wouldn't happen.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 05:20 AM

A couple of points raised by Dave Polshaw:

"Nothing wrong with the BBCs documentary, Al. It was a damning report on anyone who traffics in human misery. Nothing wrong with you pointing out that it was on. Provided of course that you did not do so just to gloat in the fact that these criminals happened to be Indian."

And

"Where do you stand, for instance, on bubblyrats contention that 'they' should all be sent back to where they came from? What would you do with people trafficers? Would you treat them all equaly or would you send the Indian ones 'back home' and give the English ones a jail sentence? What would you do with Indians who are here legaly if the commited crimes? What would you do with the crowd of second and third generation Bangladeshi kids who beat up white lad? What would you do with a crowd of Englsih lads that knifed a Bosnian immigrant?"

But Dave the BBC item makes it clear doesn't it? The trafficers were not only Indian were they? They themselves were in the UK illegally, they had no "right" to be here, they certainly did not have any "right" to be here engaged in human trafficking, so in my book "bubblyrat" is perfectly correct, having been apprehended, they should by tried in accordance with English Law. If found guilty they should be sentenced to the appropriate term in prison and upon release immediately deported and barred from ever entering the country again as "undesirable aliens - persona non grata". In addition I personally would confiscate all assets and keep them in jail until compensation had been paid to those they preyed upon from any assets abroad.

Your other questions you answer yourself:

"What would you do with people trafficers? Would you treat them all equaly or would you send the Indian ones 'back home' and give the English ones a jail sentence? What would you do with Indians who are here legaly if the commited crimes?" - As stated above if the trafficers are here illegally they get shipped back on completion of sentence, in all cases I would confiscate all assets as compensation to those they preyed upon.

"What would you do with the crowd of second and third generation Bangladeshi kids who beat up white lad?" - They should be subject to English Law if the offence happened in England. Strange way you describe the assailants, which demonstrates the flaws of ZA-NU Labours "multiculturalism", their thinking sets up the differences that cause division in society ("Socialism" must always fight some form of class war, even if they have to invent the classes). By the second or third generation these kids should be thinking of themselves as "British kids" not "Bangladeshi kids". If people from anywhere in the world seek asylum and permanent resident in any country then it is their duty to assimilate with the local customs, culture and way of life, they have no right whatsoever to enter a foreign country as a guest and then demand that their hosts alter their way of life, or make exceptions for them.

"What would you do with a crowd of Englsih lads that knifed a Bosnian immigrant?" - Subject to English Law, under the current proposals the UK tax payer would of course have to provide return taxi fares and "per diem" living expenses for the hospital visit to the Bosnian immigrant that they attacked - Personally? I'd birch them publicly and lock them up for eight years with no remission.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 05:53 AM

Some good points, Teribus. You are quite right of course about the 2nd/3rd generation thing. I apologise for it and will refrain in future. They are, of course, English kids. Funnily enough I sent a form back to Manchester PTE the other day about the new congestion proposals - On it they wanted to know not only my genger but my ethnic origins! I wrote across it 'What does it matter what gender I am or race I am from - I still need to get in and out of town!':-)

Some points not so well made, however. Nowhere does bubblyrat mention anything about the aliens, 'they', the ones to be sent back, being illegal or criminal. In fact his turn of phrase is I am not only disturbed,but quite upset at the ever-increasing number of foreigners / aliens who have been allowed , by successive British governments, to come and live in MY country without any prior consultation with myself or my fellow countrymen . Have been ALLOWED by etc. Surely this indicates some legality of entry doesn't it? I believe the rat is suggesting is that all immigrants are sent back. That is how it reads to me and as no other explanation has been forthcoming I can only continue to see it that way.

I am far from being the 'pinko liberal' that I suspect I am beeing viewed as btw. I am quite happy with the 'sending back' of criminals if they are here illegaly. I would be first in the queue to support the suggested punishment for the knife gangs. But when it seems like the intention of a poster is to stir up anti-immigrant feelings against the thousands of innocent and genuine economic and political migrants by likening them to the minority criminal element, I will question them. Just as I will also question anyone who suggests, by implication, that the majority of streets in England are unsafe. But surely that should be on another thread.

OK - Al has given no indication that his intent was racialy motivated but neither has he said anything against the rats comment that 'they' should go back where they came from. Just look back at the rats message - It appears that 'they' does include traffickers, yes, amongst such other crimes as wearing strange clothes, speaking in unfamiliar tongues and worshiping strange gods! It really sickens me that people can be so intollerant.

Cheers

Dave

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Stu
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 08:58 AM

"By the second or third generation these kids should be thinking of themselves as "British kids" not "Bangladeshi kids"

Why? I don't think of myself as British and chances are my family have probably been here since the last ice age. The idea of living in a free and tolerant society is that people can think of themselves as how they want rather than have to conform to some sort of non-existent ideal.

The very idea of human trafficking is utterly repugnant and whether they are here illegally or otherwise is largely irrelevant - and I agree that if the due process of law is followed they will be either deported or imprisoned and that's that, regardless of race or anything else.

"If people from anywhere in the world seek asylum and permanent resident in any country then it is their duty to assimilate with the local customs, culture and way of life."

Well, assuming that those people who have immigrated here legally are contributing to society as a whole by working here, paying their tax and NI, subject to the same laws as the rest of us what does this statement mean? Local customs - Morris Dancing? Drinking fifteen pints on a Friday night and spewing all over the town centre? Garden parties? Culture - an endless stream of mindless drivel from across the Atlantic? Fighting outside Weatherspoons? The Daily Mail (and all it's mean-minded readers)? Way of life? A stagnating society fuelled by blind consumerism and single-minded self-interest? A lack of respect for others? Intolerance and a slavish devotion to the capitalist ideal?

I ask again - what are these ideals these people must abandon their identities for? We already make them swear allegiance to those sponging inbreds in Buck Pal:

"I (name) swear by Almighty God that on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her Heirs and Successors, according to law."

I certainly wouldn't take that oath, and I see no reason why these people should have to swear allegiance to the decedents of those who may well have instrumental years ago in setting in motion the chain of events that led these people here in the first place.


" I'd birch them publicly and lock them up for eight years with no remission."

Er, you're not Max Moseley are you Teribus?

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Wild Flying Dove
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 09:04 AM

I don't really want to get involved in this arguement, but would just like to comment that sometimes, what people write / say and what they do are quite different. Attitudes are a strange phenomena - internally we do not hold consistent attitudes. This seems to be the case here - Bubblyrat is the only person I know uses a Sikh greeting and addresses Sikhs in a friendly and welcoming manner. He is interested in people of all cultures and friendly to all regardless of origin, colour, and creed. In practice - which possibly matters more (plenty to discuss there I daresay), Bubblyrat is not a racist.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 09:26 AM

Guest A1


"Credit to the BBC for undertaking this undercover investigation. Let's hope the authorities act upon the information and return the illegals to their rightful counties."


This is a quote from your original post.


You didn't say - lets hope this kind of human trafficking and exploitation is prevented from going on.

You didn't say - lets hope those responsible who are benefitting from all this are brought to justice.

You didn't say - Lets hope that British border security is looked at to make sure that this weakness isn't exploited by other undesirables.


Your big concern was to get rid of greasy foreigners.


You are not therefopre discussing the report.

You are using it as an excuse to push your agenda.


That is why I wish someone would deport you to the middle of the sahara desert, so that the rest of us can continue to enjoy civilised society.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 10:28 AM

This poor thing lox really shouldn't get involved in topics they doesn't understand as I have just seen from their posts on other threads.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Midchuck
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 10:40 AM

So please forgive me if I appear to be somewhat uncharitable, but I really do wish that "they"would all go back to where they came from, and let me /us have my/our country back , which,of course is simple anthropology, not racism !

Absolutely right! That's just what the first Americans said, over here, when all those damned foreigners came in, mostly from the British Isles.

Didn't do them a hell of a lot of good either.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 11:14 AM

I think that we need to be a little careful in any condemnation of immigrants to the UK. If you can trace your ancestry back several hundred years with no foreign relatives great - I doubt that many in the UK could do that, but it doesn't mean that, at one time, your distant ancestors were not part of an invading force.

Just a glance back at the history of the British empire will show that, at one time, our ancestors invaded a number of other countries and I would guess that the people in those countries could have said "They do not share the same history, religion, language (in many cases)or sense of cultural identity as the rest of us "natives". Many of them continue to wear strange clothes, worship strange Gods, and speak in unfamiliar tongues" In many cases our ancestors appropriated land belonging to those natives by force. They also made it a practice, in many cases, to convert the natives to Christianity and to overlay their own culture with that of the British.

I agree that illegal immigrants need to be checked and, when the law is broken, they should be deported without delay. I'm also aware that, without the influx of West Indians in the 50s our hospitals and transport systems would have been in real trouble. The unfortunate thing is that it is the troublemakers who get the publicity, not those who work to make a life for themselves and their families.

Many of us, if we really look carefully, will have some vestige of prejudice within us. The fear of anything different, be it skin colour, language, religion or culture, can leave us feeling uneasy. The thought of our own racial heritage being mixed with one that is unfamiliar to us - brown babies instead of pink blond ones, for example - may bring these fears to the surface, but I believe that it is possible for most of us to recognise and come to terms with those feelings and to go someway toward understanding that, under the skin, we are all very much alike.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST,White Woman
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 11:38 AM

Recently I travelled back to London from a northern city, on the overnight bus. The bus was crowded. There were only three white people on it, plus the two drivers. The rest were all black, which I hope I can call "of appearnace which indicates an African family origin within the last hundred years" without offending anyone. It seemed surprising to me, since the northern city isnt exactly noted for a large "ethnic" community. Why were they all going?

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 12:23 PM

Its a natural urge to move nearer the equator. I feel it myself occasionally!

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 12:57 PM

They were going home - it's cheaper by bus which is why you notice more immigrants on them. They tend to be poorer than the longer established sections of the population who can afford cars and trains.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 01:17 PM

"This poor thing lox really shouldn't get involved in topics they doesn't understand as I have just seen from their posts on other threads."

Avoid the point then.

But at least try to construct a sentence properly.

I'll bet every one of those illegal immigrants would have no trouble correcting your grammar.

Perhaps try writing in a language you understand.

This the only one eh?

Poor troll - (nice try)

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jul 08 - 12:32 PM

This seems to be the case here - Bubblyrat is the only person I know uses a Sikh greeting and addresses Sikhs in a friendly and welcoming manner. He is interested in people of all cultures and friendly to all regardless of origin, colour, and creed. In practice - which possibly matters more (plenty to discuss there I daresay), Bubblyrat is not a racist.

Why then has he not come back on here and explained what he meant by It wouldn't be so bad if they were like us, but they are NOT !! --They do not share the same history, religion,language (in many cases)or sense of cultural identity as the rest of us "natives". Many of them continue to wear strange clothes,worship strange Gods, and speak in unfamiliar tongues, whilst espousing such alien concepts as polygamy,honour killings,Sharia law and yes, people-trafficking as per this thread.So please forgive me if I appear to be somewhat uncharitable, but I really do wish that "they"would all go back to where they came from, and let me /us have my/our country back

I have never seen a more racist post on mudcat!

Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jul 08 - 12:39 PM

Why are immigration issues immediately hijacked by the self righteous PC haters?

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: pdq
Date: 20 Jul 08 - 12:56 PM

Do you mean "PC types who are haters" or do you mean "people who hate PC types"?

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 04:25 AM

I hate typing on the PC - does that count?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Stu
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 06:11 AM

Those who bemoan political correctness are often those very same people who hold views of dubious morality that prick their own conscience - however deep it's buried.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST,White woman
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 10:42 AM

manitas at work, why would so many of them be "going home", as far away as London? I find it hard to believe I happened to get the overnight bus at a time when there was an unusually high number of "ethnic" passengers, and, as I said, there isn't that high a concentration in the northern town I was visiting. But it is near to a port.