BS: War of 1812 on PBS 2012.06.12 9PM ADST

Subject: RE: BS: War of 1812 on PBS 2012.06.12 9PM ADST
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Jun 12 - 03:19 PM

Well, Teribus, that's an opinion, yup, sure is.

If it's true it set things up for Britain to enchain India even more, hook the Chinese on opium, and squash the Cornish, Irish, Welsh and Scots ever more under the British thumb. This forced more and more children into Britain's factories and mines, where the conditions were so bad that they literally coughed up their lungs from coal dust and cloth dust as they worked their twelve or fourteen hour days -- but then, Britain wasn't in the slave business any more by 1812 because the money from slaving had fallen off and besides, the children were closer to home.

That's another opinion. Yup, sure is.

Subject: RE: BS: War of 1812 on PBS 2012.06.12 9PM ADST
From: Les from Hull
Date: 14 Jun 12 - 04:37 PM

I think you're referencing the rich and powerful British there, Rapparee. It was changes in agriculture and industry that allowed them to put us poor people into factories. The UK abolished the slave trade in 1807. That William Wiberforce was 'from Hull' as well!

Subject: RE: BS: War of 1812 on PBS 2012.06.12 9PM ADST
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Jun 12 - 04:47 PM

I was led to believe that NB'ers were called herring chokers. But, according to what I recently read, the term generally applies to all Canadian Maritimers?

Beats me, as I never had any desire to choke a herring - or even a bloater (or, any other animal, for that matter).

Subject: RE: BS: War of 1812 on PBS 2012.06.12 9PM ADST
From: kendall
Date: 14 Jun 12 - 05:07 PM

How many people know that George Washington started the French and Indian wars?

King Louis hatred of the British was stronger than his love for Americans, and he reaped what he sowed.

Subject: RE: BS: War of 1812 on PBS 2012.06.12 9PM ADST
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jun 12 - 05:59 PM

I enthusiastically agree with Teribus' analysis of the American Revolutionary War and the War of 1812. Mind you, I'm Canadian, not American, so I'm seeing it from a different historical and cultural angle than Americans do.

Subject: RE: BS: War of 1812 on PBS 2012.06.12 9PM ADST
From: gnu
Date: 14 Jun 12 - 06:54 PM

"Explosion 1812", History Channel, Sunday, 22:00h ADST.

Subject: RE: BS: War of 1812 on PBS 2012.06.12 9PM ADST
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 10:15 AM

"This forced more and more children into Britain's factories and mines, where the conditions were so bad that they literally coughed up their lungs from coal dust and cloth dust as they worked their twelve or fourteen hour days -- but then, Britain wasn't in the slave business any more by 1812 because the money from slaving had fallen off and besides, the children were closer to home" - Rapparee

And child labour at that time anywhere else was different??

Certainly not in the USA apparently:

Child Labor in U.S. History

Forms of child labor, including indentured servitude and child slavery, have existed throughout American history. As industrialization moved workers from farms and home workshops into urban areas and factory work, children were often preferred, because factory owners viewed them as more manageable, cheaper, and less likely to strike. Growing opposition to child labor in the North caused many factories to move to the South. By 1900, states varied considerably in whether they had child labor standards and in their content and degree of enforcement. By then, American children worked in large numbers in mines, glass factories, textiles, agriculture, canneries, home industries, and as newsboys, messengers, bootblacks, and peddlers. In the early decades of the twentieth century, the numbers of child laborers in the U.S. peaked.

And of course you still had your slaves, well slaves in all but name, I know Abe Lincoln "freed" them in 1863, or whenever, but talk was cheap, the reality was they didn't get their civil rights acknowledged until when was it again Rap?? - 1968.

Not opinion Rap that's FACT, Yup sure is.

Subject: RE: BS: War of 1812 on PBS 2012.06.12 9PM ADST
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 12:57 PM

How many people know that George Washington started the French and Indian wars?

How many people know that that is simplistic nonsense?

Subject: RE: BS: War of 1812 on PBS 2012.06.12 9PM ADST
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 01:14 PM

George Washington made a contribution to getting that war going, but I'd say that the war was in any case inevitable. The French and British empires had conflicting interests in North America (as well as elsewhere), and would certainly have gotten into that war regardless of George Washington.

In any case, here is a brief account of the incident alluded to:

"In 1753 Washington was sent as an ambassador from the British crown to the French officials and Indians as far north as present-day Erie, Pennsylvania. The following year he led another expedition to the area to assist in the construction of a fort at present-day Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Before reaching that point, he and some of his men, accompanied by Indian allies, ambushed a French scouting party. Its leader was killed, although the exact circumstances of his death were disputed. This peacetime act of aggression is seen as one of the first military steps leading to the global Seven Years' War. The French responded by attacking fortifications Washington erected following the ambush, forcing his surrender. Released on parole, Washington and his troops returned to Virginia."

Not exactly a glorious chapter in military history...

Washinton did prove, however, to be a pretty fine military leader as time went by, and he had the good fortune to end up on the winning side eventually in the American Revolution. If he'd been on the losing side, he'd almost undoubtedly have been hanged for treason.

Subject: RE: BS: War of 1812 on PBS 2012.06.12 9PM ADST
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 06:07 PM

LH, I would refer you to Fred Anderson's Crucible of War and Lawrence Henry Gipson's multi-volume works on the Seven Years'War. Skip Francis Parkman.

Subject: RE: BS: War of 1812 on PBS 2012.06.12 9PM ADST
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 06:11 PM

the US government was forced to address the insults by the British

Ah, yes- The American Way. Somebody insults ya, kill him.

Thiings ain't changed all that much from 1812 I guess - or from Dodge City, Deadwood, Chicago in the 20's & 30's.............