BS: UK Citizen Test

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: BobL
Date: 27 Dec 16 - 04:04 AM

... and Little Britain ...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Thompson
Date: 27 Dec 16 - 11:28 AM

Meta-cognition - I recently decided to go back to try and scrub up my school French and see whether I could achieve a basic conversational level. I've been doing a variety of things - using Duolingo and Memrise, listening to radio, chatting to people, reading books, watching films. But I decided that I wasn't going to treat it as learning but purely to allow the language to flow into me. It's worked spectacularly well - to the extent that I now have café-level French (I can give and get directions, can talk to people in shops, etc). It really works so much better than lists of verbs and nouns and trying to beat yourself up as I did in school over formal learning.

As for this insane test, how's about a bunch of Catters get together and offer a course in it… I can't offer, wrong country, but it would be fun - ask a tech that's local to you if you could offer a course (using the book of cheats), and do it in a way that people would enjoy, with questions and the answers given and explained, plus music swaps from the English catters to the students from various countries. And a small party with multinational food every time a student passed!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Dec 16 - 01:27 PM

Do you know Thompson, I considered doing just that while coaching my husband through the thing. I reckon I could deliver sessions on different topics with accompanying interesting traditional stuff such as music and films of festivals and Morris dancing etc. Not to mention accents and cultural flavours from all around the UK. I taught French to my 12yr old pupils, and can appreciate conversely how hard it is for a non-English speaker to grasp what is being said (eg my husband!). Not only that, but I'm an incurable xenophile. I'd absolutely relish meeting and helping all the varied nationalities and getting to know them. So much more fun than their being stuck in front of a computer trying to learn the right option to click on, or wading through the dry Home Office publication of test questions.
However, I fear that the dreaded Home Office would soon have their noses in it and want to monitor what was going on.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Thompson
Date: 28 Dec 16 - 12:25 PM

Go for it! You could pitch it to your local tech as something like "All about England" with a description like "Do Bank Holidays have national or religious significance? Is there a Great Britain football team? What does Hearts of Oak mean? All you want to know about living in Britain and what it means".

If you use the first three or four questions, people will recognise it as a 'dog-whistle' description! (The questionnaire sounds more like it's about being English than about being British, hafta say…)

A kindly Christmas gift, or perhaps loan, I'm not sure, is a book called Fluent Forever which claims to teach "How to learn any language fast and never forget it". I'm reading it with interest.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Thompson
Date: 28 Dec 16 - 01:37 PM

Oh, and you can show them the Polish Christmas ad

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Dec 16 - 02:18 PM

Has anyone tried to complete a UK Citizen test. I've now done quite a few and have not scored 100% in most of them.

I would be interested to see how other people manage.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Thompson
Date: 28 Dec 16 - 03:31 PM

Where do you find them? (Not UK or citizen, but would be interested to try since we get so much UK culture over here.)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Dec 16 - 05:45 PM

Google 'Life In The UK Test - free online questions' and you can have a go at some sample tests. I can't do them. My husband deserves a medal for getting through his test eventually. He studied so hard and his English was so limited in those days.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Dec 16 - 06:01 PM

Ha! I've just clicked on this site and completed a couple of the tests. There are several silly questions, for example, "A person can use their driving licence until the age of...' and it gives the answer as 70. That would make half our village drivers (including myself) illegal!
The questions are new ones, as the test has been updated fairly recently.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Dec 16 - 06:04 PM

Tried one and got 19/20. I would have got that if I hadn't stupidly overlooked a 'not' in the question. However, there was a sport question and as have said several times I know nothing about sport so getting that right was a sheer guess. Had I guessed otherwise and made the error I did I would have scored 18, which was the bare minimum to pass.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Dec 16 - 06:59 PM

I think there are 24 questions in each test, and you have, as you say, to get 18 to pass.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Dec 16 - 07:17 PM

I got 23 right in 4'57". I got one wrong about what happened to hereditary peers in 1999. Jaysus. At least I'm a true Brit.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Thompson
Date: 29 Dec 16 - 03:06 AM

I suppose the driving licence question implies that you have to get your eyesight tested after 70 - but it sounds pretty stupidly phrased.
It would be a nice fundraiser for village fetes - "See if you can pass the UK Citizenship test"!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Dec 16 - 03:21 AM

Ah, so I am at less risk of being deported than I feared!

Off thread, but vaguely connected: I was a bit horrified to learn over the holidays that my daughter's two and a half year visa has gone up from £500 last time to £2000 in a couple of weeks. Much of this is a £500 NHS surcharge despite paying NI and UK taxes for a decade...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Dec 16 - 03:22 AM

Thompson, I've just watched that Polish Christmas ad. Isn't it absolutely lovely? And hilarious when he says to the plastic duck, "I will f****** kill you!"

Years ago I stupidly taught my husband the 'n' word, and he now delights in teasing me in shops by muttering under his breath "'Ello my 'Onky! 'Ere eez your N*****!"

I noticed several elementary punctuation mistakes in the Test questions (ever the teacher) such as 'its' for 'it's'. And many of the questions are ambiguous or open to dispute. Maybe those who set the Test should have had a few English lessons themselves!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Thompson
Date: 29 Dec 16 - 04:44 AM

Love that Polish Christmas ad!

I 'passed' the online quiz version of the UK Citizenship Test, astonishingly (though in many cases through wild guesses):

==
https://www.theuktest.com/life-in-the-uk-test/6

Total Score: 20/24 (83%)
You have PASSED the Test

You need to get at least 75% (18 Questions correct) to pass this test

==

Noticed that it taught anti-Catholic notions through the question

==
King Henry VIII's daughter Mary was a devout Catholic and persecuted Protestants, which is why she became known as
Catholic Mary
Scary Mary
Bloody Mary
Killer Mary
==

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Thompson
Date: 29 Dec 16 - 04:50 AM

Also bemused by these:

==
As a citizen or permanent resident of the UK your responsibility will be to
find illegal immigrants
keep your dog on a lead at all the time
look after yourself and your family
grow your own vegetables
==

(Apparently "look after yourself and your family" is the answer, you scrounging would-be immigrant!)

==
The House of Lords mostly acts as the government wishes
True
False
==

(Anyone who answeres "True", not being able to think of any recent instance where the House of Lords acted against government wishes, will be told no, "False" is correct, because "It is normally more independent of government than the House of Commons". Weird!)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Dec 16 - 08:56 AM

Ha! I think it would be rather nice to insist people grow their own vegetables. I agree about Bloody Mary. Actually her young brother Edward VI was quite vicious towards Catholics and persecuted them relentlessly in spite of his youth (or maybe at the instigation of his Seymour uncles) Nobody calls him Bloody Edward do they? Or his other sister Elizabeth I who was quite keen on executing Catholics towards the end of her reign.

We do have a village quiz night from time to time. I reckon hardly anyone would get these Life In UK Questions even half correct. But my husband would shine!
It cost us in excess of £10,000 to finally complete the process for our marriage and my husband's settlement here in UK. It was a long and hard road to travel.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Dec 16 - 09:03 AM

A long and hard road indeed. You can't apply for residency at all these days unless you are earning over £35000 so are stuck paying thousands every few years. And at any of these they can say "Toddle off now" so building a life is really hard. If you get residency and pay the sort of figures you mention then you have to go through tests like these. The incentives to be illegal are massive, especually for those on minimum wage.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Thompson
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 01:17 AM

What did the £10,000 go on?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Allan Conn
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 03:11 AM

I only got one wrong and funnily enough (me being Scottish) the one I got wrong was the only question specifically about Scotland. How many people on a jury in Scotland :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 03:37 AM

The money went on Application for a Marriage Visa, flights to and from Ghana, because the British Embassy in Cote d'Ivoire had moved to Accra due to the civil unrest at that time. My husband had to present his Application actually at the Embassy, and wait a few days (in hotel accommodation) for the result. I accompanied him, so my flights and hotel bill were added to the total. The Application was refused, and we therefore had to mount an Appeal, costing £1400, which was held in London. I had to attend, and the judge ruled the refusal an 'error', The doubt had been on my financial position, and my solicitor presented all my bank accounts and deeds of my house etc, plus proof of teacher's income. It was by far enough to support a husband with no recourse to public funds, so the judge overturned the refusal and the Marriage Visa was issued, meaning yet another flight for my husband to Ghana to receive it. Then the X-ray (they check for TB) fare to London for my fiance and the long road via Further Leave to Remain, Life in UK Test (two attempts) Indefinite Leave to Remain, Citizenship and the Ceremony (£100)
Every move and every Application cost money as there's a fee for everything. We never got any refund or compensation for the 'error' in Ghana which had cost us so much expense. My husband wasn't permitted to work until he had FLR. He's worked ever since and still does, so he hasn't cost the UK anything in Benefits.
It was a very long, expensive and difficult process, and took about two years to complete. The day his Passport arrived (the final achievement) by courier, we sat and sobbed together with relief and joy! That was many years ago now, and it was definitely worth it. But Phew!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 03:43 AM

Thompson: you asked where the £10,000 went. I can't answer that personally because I haven't got involved in permanent residency applications. But I can tell you something about why the temporary has gone up so much. Part of it is a NHS surcharge: forgive a lengthy cut and paste.
=====
1. When is the health surcharge being introduced? The surcharge will be introduced on 6 April 2015. It will apply to applications where payment is made on or after 6 April.
2. How much will it cost? The health surcharge will be set at £200 a year for temporary migrants and £150 a year for students. Dependants will generally be charged the same amount as their main applicant. The total surcharge amount for the whole period of leave granted will be payable upfront.
3. Why is the surcharge being introduced?
The immigration health surcharge will ensure that temporary, non-EEA migrants coming to the UK for more than six months contribute to the NHS in a manner in line with their immigration status.
The surcharge is not a visa fee. The payment will be collected by the Home Office and it will go directly into the National Health Service (NHS) and will give migrants access to the NHS on the same terms as a permanent UK resident.
=====
So for two and a half years, that's £500 per person. You may notice several possible criticisms in this. The first is that it is not related in any way to the NI or tax contributions the person has made in the past. So the fact a person may have made exactly the same contributions as a UK resident of the same age is of no relevance: they must pay exactly the same as someone just turning up in the UK as a 'health tourist' who has never set foot in the country before. Secondly, if it is about preventing health tourism the fee is probably far too low to have any influence. If you are facing paying tens of thousands for an operation at home, or a £200 per year charge (and you don't intend to stay more than a year), it is pretty clear which you will pick. So as a means of preventing health tourism it is very likely ineffective.

There is another part of the costs that has gone up a few hundred pounds that is in principle an optional charge but in practice for many people they have no choice. You can pay extra to have the application fast tracked so it completes in a week or so rather than three months. However, you have to send passports, marriage certificates and so forth as part of the application and these are only returned at the end of the process. Which can mean trying to live in the UK for three months without any of the official forms of ID.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 04:30 AM

I quite agree about the 'health tourist' angle. In theory my husband could have needed a very expensive operation/treatment once arrived in UK, having contributed nothing all his life. There must be a way to avoid this, but I can't think of one. One can hardly refuse to treat a seriously ill person and leave them to suffer/die. Maybe candidates' sponsors should provide a large sum of money in a Trust Fund which can be accessed by the NHS to pay for expensive treatments. Another option might be a very thorough medical examination to ascertain that the applicant is in reasonable health before they arrive. My husband had only to prove he didn't have TB, but this only applies to certain countries, and is primarily intended to prevent infection of UK inhabitants. Then of course, the new arrival could suddenly become ill/have an accident and need urgent medical care, in spite of having passed the medical.
I wonder how other countries cope with this? As they don't have an NHS, presumably that puts everyone on a level playing field, and new immigrants would be paying the same as the native population for private medical care?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 04:45 AM

My husband had to surrender his Ivory Coast passport to the UK Embassy in Ghana while his final, successful application was processed, and he had to fly back to his home country without it. The check-in staff were understandably unimpressed and at first wouldn't let him board the plane. Luckily there is an agreement of free passage between nine W African countries, called CEDEAO, and he had his card with him. After bribing the Ghanaian security guards they let him fly. Bribery is usual in Africa, but totally out of order as the CEDEAO should have been enough.
Also the UK Border people demanded an interpreter for him and wouldn't let me do it (as an 'interested party') so we had to pay for that too. The same thing applied at the marriage ceremony.