BS: Boeing Boing Gone

Subject: RE: BS: Boeing Boing Gone
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Dec 21 - 07:45 PM

Doneul:

I'm not here to defend Boeing. Far from it. But I feel that the bulk of the evil was a departure from the high ideals of pride of design and safety (engineering) to the concentration of profits at the expense of the former.

If you listened to the interview on Fresh Air, you would have heard that the reporter emphasized that. If you read a book like Sutter's "747" you would have eperienced first hand the kind of decisions that a great aeronautical engineer went through in designing and bringing to production a great product went through.

Meanwhile, Boeing had made horrible decisions before. A famous case I can recall was the loss of a Boeing 747 cargo jet in Japan due to a faulty repair. At that time we were aware of it because Boeing Corporate took responsibility fairly quickly. This was also brought up in the Fresh Air broadcast.

Unfortunately, power in the company shifted to a less morally committed type of executive. And a slide to degradation occurred. It is all too true and all too scary when this occurs. It is NOT and indictment of Capitalism nor any other formalized 'ism so much as it is a reminder that honor and standards are always with us, and we lose sight of them at our peril.

The other major failure was the embedding of federal oversight into Boeing coporate. This was understandable to an extent. If there is a high standard of quality and ethics with the manufacturer, their people are the most understanding of the product. But the principle of oversight is for a second or third party to be competent and observant. Clearly, the demarcation was muddied here.

What happened was outrageous and Boeing has fallen greatly in the moral universe. It is not unlike Volkswagen's emissions testing scandal, only Boeing has immediate blood on its hands, whereas Volkswagen has merely succeeded in poisoning the planet.

Subject: RE: BS: Boeing Boing Gone
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Dec 21 - 07:47 PM

How bad was the relationship between Boeing and FAA?

Trump had to issue the grounding order!

Subject: RE: BS: Boeing Boing Gone
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 21 - 08:21 PM

Amazing but someone else probably deserves the credit.
Trump's next home. It is enormous but has many new rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Boeing Boing Gone
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Dec 21 - 06:49 AM

A pilot faced with a mystery loss of control might have 3 minutes to identify and correct the situation. Working around multiple software patches is not the way to go. I would have hoped a reset button would actually work despite todays complex tech. Alas I am not an engineer.

Subject: RE: BS: Boeing Boing Gone
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Dec 21 - 01:56 PM

105 years after the most documented disaster of the Titanic, it is now confirmed that a fire in the coal bunkers of the ship turned the bunker vertical walls red hot and soft leaving them warped. The fire started before the NY voyage began and ended a day before the sinking. Testimony shows it was the exactly the bunker that burned was the one that gave way at its bottom making the ship inevitably sink.
The cover up started at the top and the hundred odd firemen were not called to testify. Finally one fireman was called and dismissed with a scorned judgment of the chair. If this became widely known, negligence would have fallen on White Star Inc., instead it was concluded the sinking was a just a freak accident.

Sometimes the corporate 'fix' lasts a long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Boeing Boing Gone
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Dec 21 - 01:52 PM

Well, damn, Don'l, if only Boeing would pay more attention to their coal bunkers they might have more better luck on takeoff!

Subject: RE: BS: Boeing Boing Gone
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 21 - 03:21 PM

Our modern version of coal bunkers on fire are lithium batteries.

Subject: RE: BS: Boeing Boing Gone
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Dec 21 - 08:35 AM

Wikipedia places the coal bunker theories in its Titanic Conspiracy Theories page.

There does at least seem to be some truth, or at least there was a bunker fire but as far as I can make out, the consensus amongst experts is that the event made no difference to the fate of the ship.

I guess one can take things either way (although I will side with the debunkers on this on) but one page attempting to summarise a response to one broadcast promotiing a version of the theories is here.

Subject: RE: BS: Boeing Boing Gone
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Dec 21 - 04:17 PM

The fire theory was ruled out in its day. It would have made White Star guilty without question.
What gives the fire theory (real fire but questionable cause for ultimate sinking) a bit more inertia is a never before submitted photo of the burned paint on the hull from the outside before the voyage began. The second cooberating factor is from today's fire forensic engineers whose results show internal bulkhead warpage similar to what old time witness' testified to seeing.

Like the Warren Commision I can only assume that the fix was in from day one of the Titanic Commission. My bias proves nothing.