UK political topics 2025 1 thread only

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 May 25 - 05:20 AM

Yes, some might spoil their ballot papers, some might vote for the the Monster Raving Loony Party (always assuming they have a candidate in their constituency - at the 2024 General Election the MRL Party had candidates in 24 out of 650 constituencies), but they will at least have voted. If you can’t see that would be preferable to a situation where someone is elected by a tiny proportion of the electorate, you really are very ill-informed.

Andrea Jenkyns was elected by 42% of 24% of eligible voters - that’s 10.08% of the electorate, 89.92% of the electorate did NOT express a wish for her to become the Mayor of Greater Lincolnshire. If you can defend that, you really are on another planet.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 May 25 - 05:30 AM

It would also be a simple matter to accommodate those who feel totally disaffected, by including an option of ‘None of the above’ or similar on the ballot paper, although spoiling your ballot paper is effectively the same thing and, as Dave correctly pointed out, it is still counted in the voting stats.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 25 - 09:40 AM

Backwoodsman you have not presented a logical argument,
Forcing people to vote does not guarantee that people will vote for establishment parties., or get a result that you might like, eg non election in lincolnshire of Jenkins
Australia has a high proportion of spoiled votes, it would appear to be as a result of people being forced to vote.
what is the point of forcing people to vote so that the turnout is bigger , if it just results in more spoiled votes and an election that succeeds in returning the same candidates who would have been elected before people were forced to vote.
you two are suggesting authoritarian rules just so that the electorate has a bigger turnout.
Authoritarianism at its worst

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 25 - 09:57 AM

Authoritarianism for no logical reaspon other than allowing a government to boast , voter turnout has increased.
What a brainless stupid idea.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 25 - 10:03 AM

what is the point of forcing people to vote so that the turnout is bigger

There is a very valid point to it. If people have not voted, you have no idea whether they have not voted because they do not like the candidates or because they cannot be bothered. If they spoil the vote it is most likely that they do not like the candidates. In addition, not everyone who is forced to vote will spoil their ballots. There will be some that vote for who they prefer and some who will vote tactically. In the Lincolshire mayor vote, for instance, we would have a much better idea of why 90% of the electorate did not vote for Jenkyns and, chances are, the vote may have gone differently.

As to "Authoritarianism at its worst", well, does anyone seriously think that being made to vote is worse than having your democratic reghts removed altogether? If so, then maybe some people should have their right to vote removed...

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 25 - 11:04 AM

neither Backwoodsman or Dave Polshaw have presented logical common sense arguments
Dave Polshaw has stated quote
As to "Authoritarianism at its worst", well, does anyone seriously think that being made to vote is worse than having your democratic reghts removed altogether? If so, then maybe some people should have their right to vote removed...
Reminds me of Totalitarian Dictators

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 May 25 - 11:28 AM

Read this and educate yourself. Dick.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 25 - 12:15 PM

So, do you really think that being made to vote is the worst possible thing that can happen to democracy, Dick?

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 25 - 11:11 AM

Reform UK’s disastrous plans for Lincolnshire. Time for compulsory voting, methinks.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 25 - 11:40 AM

Backwoodsman ,
what makes you so sure that compulsory voting would have altered the results in lincolnshire or anywhere else.
people can be made to register, but how they vote[ including spoiling a vote] when they are there is still not controllable.
How do you know it would make a difference
What sort of punishment do you recommend for those that refuse to vote,if a government insists on prison sentences, those that do not wish to vote, may deliberately en masse, decide to jam the prisons up by not voting as a political protest

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 25 - 11:50 AM

I don’t know the answers to any of that, and neither do you. It’s not my job to know. But at least everyone will have officially set down their wish, even if it’s ‘none of the above’. It may not make a difference to results, but it might. Neither you nor I know which.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 25 - 12:10 PM

What sort of punishment do you recommend for people who refuse to vote? if it is not guaranteed to make a difference to results, how do you justify the cost of implementing it.,
You are recommending a decision that is a leap in the dark, that you do not know what the result will be.
What sort of decision making is that, if a government was to adopt that policy for other matters you would have policies and laws made that were not good because decisions had been made regardless of consequences.
You are advocating making a decision when you do not know the results of what you are advocating
IMO that is not a good way to govern.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 25 - 12:20 PM

Plans for mandatory voter ID will cost up to £180 million a decade, according to a buried Government impact assessment.

The Cabinet Office’s official estimate for the proposals to make voters show a form of ID in order to vote in elections – contained in its Elections Bill – will cost between £65 million and £180 million over the next 10 years, with a ‘central estimate’ of £120 million.

The Government has come under increasing criticism over the legislation, which was rushed out before a high-profile inquiry into election finance in the UK – effectively guaranteeing that its findings would be ignored.

The bill has its second reading in Parliament this week.

The voter ID costs include £55 million on larger, more detailed polling cards, which will have to be posted in envelopes for the first time; and another £15 million on producing plastic ‘voter cards’ for the estimated 2.1 million Brits who may not have suitable ID, the Mirror and the Electoral Reform Society have revealed.

The newspaper reported that £120 million could buy 10,316 hip operations, 3,986 new ventilators, or 6.6million hours of tutoring in schools. HERE IS THE LINK

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/09/06/mandatory-voter-id-the-cost-to-taxpayers-and-democracy/

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 25 - 12:28 PM

if the information i have provided is incorrect or irrelevant ,please inform me of the cost forcing people to turn up to voteof

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 25 - 01:11 PM

I believe our electoral system would be better served if we had compulsory voting, and that there would be a far greater likelihood of results reflecting the true feelings and wishes of the whole electorate, not just a small percentage.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 25 - 05:34 PM

I agree about PR. I also agree with compulsory voting. The punishment for not voting should be having the right to vote removed for a set period. Refusal to vote a second time should result in voting rights removed altogether

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 25 - 05:44 PM

M with you on PR Dave. In fact, PR and compulsory voting would go a long way to solving the anomalous results which come as a result of our ‘FPTP’ system with low turnouts.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 05:38 AM

Here's what I think, and I have no interest in politics at all.

Yes, non-voters could be made to vote, but would that cause resentment? I rather think it could - and that, come election day, could show itself in the overall voting result.

It may be more productive (politically) to ask non-voters why they don't vote and try to address any issues there.

Just my two penn'orth guys :)

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 08 May 25 - 05:50 AM

I agree that some form of proportional representation would be better than 'first past the post' but, the fact is, that's what we have at the moment.

The problem with compulsory voting under this system is that, once you have eliminated those you would definitely not vote for, your vote could come down to random choice of those who remain. As is often seen on TV quiz shows, when people have no idea, they choose the middle option. A candidate's position on the ballot paper could give an unfair advantage or disadvantage.

When voting remains optional, those going to the polling station will at least have given it some thought beforehand.

If the political parties can't persuade people to come out to the polling stations, do they deserve their votes?

DC

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:19 AM

Dave wrote:
"The punishment for not voting should be having the right to vote removed for a set period."

Is that a punishment or a reward for non-voters? :-)

I do agree though that compulsory voting is worth a try.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:32 AM

Is uncertainty about the outcome of a project a good reason for not undertaking the project in the first place? If our forebears had thought like you, Europeans would never have discovered America, humans would never have flown, Everest would never have been conquered, man would never have stood on the moon. In comparison with the dangers and uncertainties involved in those projects, making voting compulsory pales into insignificance.

”We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard” - John F Kennedy.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:48 AM

And, of course, if it were decided to introduce compulsory voting and it turned out to not work, there’s no reason why the decision couldn’t be reversed and go back to voluntary voting. But without trying it, none of us know whether the outcome would be a success or a failure, and that includes you.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 07:50 AM

I think it goes much deeper than what you guys are debating.

If I talk to people who say they don't vote, trust (or lack of it) is one of the main reasons they give.

Lord alone knows how you restore trust when people don't believe a word you say, but I think politicians somehow have to try to in order to bring out voters en masse.

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 25 - 08:22 AM

Perhaps the answer is to give people some incentive to vote that transcends their indifference towards the available candidates. What that would be I don't know, it seems that having a decent government should be incentive enough, but if we don't do something about voter apathy we'll keep getting sub-human creatures like Trump in power. He won with 77 million votes while over 90 million registered voters stayed away from the polls in '24.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 25 - 08:28 AM

It would be interesting to hear from our Australian members (Helen, Sandra) how it works, and with what level of success, in Australia. Belgium too, although I don’t know of any Belgian members, or any of the other, fairly numerous, countries with compulsory voting.

https://www.idea.int/data-tools/data/voter-turnout-database/compulsory-voting

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 25 - 09:06 AM

How about infrastructure improvements, perhaps a park, sidewalks, a bike lane etc. for voting districts with high turnouts. Of course, in the U.S. this would be a high hill to climb when one of the 2 major parties, the GOP, have voter suppression as one of their main electoral strategies.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 08 May 25 - 09:49 AM

..... a bike lane etc

That would not be an incentive to all. Many motorists would vote to have bike lanes taken away.

DC

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 25 - 10:03 AM

Okay, make it something the community could agree on, like better roads, improved health care facilities, etc. Put the funds in local coffers and let them hash it out.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 10:04 AM

Gilly -


Ah pure, undiluted voter bribery. I wondered when that would show up lol.

No, seriously, it may not bring out the voters mate. I mean, it seems to me that the non voters have had enough. They can't or won't believe politicians anymore.

I could be way wrong but that's how it looks to me.

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 25 - 10:10 AM

If it's a chance to improve their community I think more voters will turn out. Why shouldn't the more responsible districts be rewarded. All this should be done without shorting the more poverty-stricken areas that already have it bad enough.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 10:36 AM

Gilly,

Citizens should have all that and more
There's no disagreement from me over that.

No, what I'm saying is that UK politicians have lied and lied, in ALL parties and the public show their distrust/disgust by not voting. Can I understañd their motives? Absolutely :)

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 25 - 10:41 AM

You seem to be making a compelling argument for the introduction of compulsory voting, Fred! ;-)

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 11:02 AM

BWM,

I don't disagree with trying it. If it didn't work, just reverse it.

My big thing is lying. I want the truth from politicians so that, when I go to the polling station, I know exactly what I'm voting FOR, you know? :)

Fred.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Rain Dog
Date: 08 May 25 - 11:24 AM

I am not happy about low turnouts. I think that it is not a great situation to be in. There does need to be an effort to try to encourage more people to vote. I am not sure that compulsory voting is the solution.

I do think we need to change our voting system. FPTP is fine if you just have 2 parties.

Differences between parties are becoming harder to detect.

It would also help if parties would be more honest about what they will be able to do once elected. None of them seem to want to go down that route. Also voters need to be more realistic about what their parties will be able to achieve in 4 or 5 years.

Reform had an overwhelming win here in the Kent County Council elections. It will be interesting to see how they will manage in the next few years with rising debt and rising costs.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 25 - 11:46 AM

OK. I have had a change of heart. Instead of compulsory voting let's incentivise it.

Free beer for those who vote ??

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 11:59 AM

Dave,


What about those who don't drink? Their vote in exchange for a nest box for Bombay shite hawks? :)

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 25 - 03:48 PM

There is a boat on the canal near us called "Shy Talk"

The owner has a great sense of humour :-D

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:30 PM

There is, or was, a day boat in Whitby named "Shy Torque"" which is a local colloquialism for a seagull.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 09 May 25 - 02:55 AM

LOL!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 10 May 25 - 06:02 AM

I postal vote so how do I cliam my beer? The idea of real ale casks at the polling office appeelas to me, but the polling officers woudl need to rest the temptation to inbibe.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 May 25 - 07:07 PM

To answer the question:
"What are peoples opinions about Starmers speech about immigrants" (sorry, corrections made so as not to re-post it as it was.

I believe that Keir Starmer's comments were made purely because he was feeling pressured by the Reform party.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 13 May 25 - 07:22 PM

Nigel,

Totally agree.

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 May 25 - 02:16 AM

I think you’re right, Nigel - I believe both Labour and the Tories are bricking-it about Reform.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 25 - 03:02 AM

Reform are a populist attention grabbing company. Sadly that is what grabs the headlines so the media feed into it and it becomes a cycle of the company feeding the media who in turn pander to them. It happened in the USA with Trump and Farage thinks he can do it here. I don't think that the majority of people buy into their lies but while they are the darlings of the MSM they are constantly on people's minds.

The other parties, particularly Labour, need to stop trying to outdo them and fight against their propaganda instead but Starmer does not seem to have the backbone.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 May 25 - 05:35 AM

Couldn’t agree more, Dave. And neither does Kemi Badenough appear to have the cojones to speak out against the Reform UK propaganda - both of the main parties failing dismally to show Reformers for what they are.

The Lib-Dems, however, seem to have their finger on Reform UK’s pulse. Time will tell how things will pan out, of course.

In the meantime, the Backwoods’ new Reform UK Mayor, Andrea Jenkyns - a failed Tory ex-MP - has declared war on Green energy - solar panels, wind-farms - and, of all things, air-fryers!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 25 - 05:53 AM

Barking mad.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 May 25 - 06:01 AM

Yep.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 15 May 25 - 06:33 AM

I'll reserve judgement until I see what difference (if any) Reform makes in their council gains.

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 May 25 - 08:56 AM

Sounds reasonable Fred. Personally, I've seen more than enough of Farridge, Tice, and Jenkyns to convince me, but we all have our own red lines I guess.

My prediction is that it'll all end in tears, but time will tell...

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 15 May 25 - 09:48 AM

BWM,

I'm no fan of Reform, and I don't see its leader as some sort of Messiah, certainly not that.

But...well,to be frank, I can't see any leader of any party who would actively make a difference, and that's what I want to see :)

Fred