Lyr Add: The Buck's Elegy (corrupt text?)

Subject: RE: BUCK'S ELEGY -- A corrupt text?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 31 Oct 02 - 09:27 AM

Actually, 1790 seems perfectly reasonable; it's just that what might have appeared to be several pieces of evidence are in reality just one. The two printings of the tune, with title, in the early years of the 19th century (and the apparently corrupt nature of Joyce's single stanza) might suggest that the song had been around for some time already; but all anybody has been able to do is guess at how long.

Steeleye Span recorded an arrangement of Mary Doran's When I Was on Horseback; their text is not an independent example of that variant.

Subject: RE: BUCK'S ELEGY -- A corrupt text?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 31 Oct 02 - 09:32 AM

Some info on the tune, from HERE:

33. Réice an Mhí-ádha: The Unfortunate Rake, from James McEnery [fiddle], Castlemahon, County Limerick, IX, 1965. This is Walsh's setting, the blind fiddler from Maol Mountain. It is usual for the "C" to be flattened [i.e., natural] in this jig. It is thus in Joyce (J, i, 19) and in O'Neill (DMI, 300). Apples in Winter in O'Neill, Sunday is my Wedding Day (RMC, p62). Other names for it are Rattle the Quilt [thus in CRÉ V, 53], Rattle the Quilt to Pieces, The Misfortunate Rake, The Shamrock, Next Sunday is my Wedding Day, "An Píobaire Caoch" [= following name], The Squint-eyed Piper and General White's Jig.

Subject: RE: BUCK'S ELEGY -- A corrupt text?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 31 Oct 02 - 09:58 AM

From The Fiddler's Companion:

Result of search for "unfortunate rake":
APPLES IN WINTER [1] (Uballa I Geimread). AKA and see "General White's Jig," "Kennedy's Jig," "Joe Kennedy's Jig,""The Misfortunate Rake," "Next Sunday is My Wedding Day," "Rattle the Quilt (to Pieces)," "Reice an Mhi-adha," "The Shamrock," "The Squint-Eyed Piper," "Sunday is My Wedding Day," "The Unfortunate Rake." Irish, Double Jig. E Minor (O'Neill, Taylor, Williamson): E Dorian (Moylan, Mulvihill). Standard. AA'B (Taylor): AABB (O'Neill): AABB' (Taylor, Williamson): AA'BCDD' (Moylan). David Taylor (1992) remarks that this tune follows a basic structure found in many minor key Irish tunes: two bars of melody built around the tonic, followed by two in the dominant chord, two more tonic, and finally a bar each of the dominant and tonic. He advances that this is why many tunes that follow this structure can sometimes be confused or mixed up, pointing out similarly sounding, though different tunes, such as "Over the Hills" are frequent. The melody is at least as old as the latter 19th century, for O'Neill (1913) records it was the first jig learned as a boy by Callinafercy, Kilcoleman, County Kerry fiddler and Uilleann piper William F. Hanafin, born in 1875 (who later, as an adolescent, emigrated to Massachusetts). Williamson (1976) states annecdotally that the apple was anciently known as 'the salvation of the poet', and relates the tale of a Welsh bard named Sion Kent who was about to be taken by the Devil. Just in time he managed to catch hold of an apple tree, thwarting the evil one, though at the same time insuring fate, for though untouchable to hell he is unsuitable for heaven and is thus doomed to wander the winds of the world evermore. See also the different, though similar in some respects tune "Old Apples in Winter." Source for notated version: accordion player Johnny O'Leary (Sliabh Luachra region of the Cork-Kerry border) [Moylan]. Moylan (Johnny O'Leary), 1994; No. 233, pgs. 134-135. Mulvihill (1st Collection), 1986; No. 81, pg. 82. O'Farrell, c. 1800, Collection of National Irish Music for the Union Pipes. O'Farrell, "Pocket Companion for the Irish or Union Pipes. O'Neill (Krassen), 1976; pg. 75. O'Neill (1850), 1903/1979; No. 1111, pg. 209. O'Neill (1001 Gems), 1907/1986; No. 300, pg. 64. Taylor (Where's the Crack?), Vol. 1, 1989; pg. 21. Taylor (Where's the Crack?), 1992; No. 58, pg. 41. Williamson (English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish Fiddle Tunes), 1976; pg. 77. Green Linnett SIF1035, Brian Conway & Tony De Marco - "The Apple in Winter" (1981). Kicking Mule KM216, Arm and Hammer String Band - "New England Contra Dance Music" (1977). Outlet 3002, Paddy Cronin- "Kerry's Own Paddy Cronin" (1977). Shaskeen Records OS-360, Joe Burke, Andy McGann, Felix Dolan - "A Tribute to Michael Coleman" c. 1965. Shaskeen - "Atlantic Breeze."
T:Apples in Winter
S:Gearóid Ó hAllmhuráin, Traditional Music from Clare and Beyond 11b
Z:Jerome Colburn
M:6/8
K:DDor
c | ADD cDD | AGF EFD | C3 ECE | GAB cdc |\
ADD ~AGA | cde fed | ecA GFE | FDD D2 :: A |\
~d3 dcA | f2 d ecA | ~cdc cGE | CEG cde |1\
~ded dcA | cde f2 g | afa geg | fdc d2 A :|2\
dcA cde | fag fed | ecA GFE | FDD D2 |]**

BARD OF ARMAGH. AKA and see "Phelim Brady." Irish, Air (3/8 time, "plaintive"). D Major. Standard. One part. The air is the same as that of "The unfortuate rake," an 18th century lament which tells of a dying young man. Other songs set to the tune are, in Ireland, "The convict of Clonmel," and in America, "The Streets of Laredo, "The Cowboy's Lament" and "St. James Hospital." English derivations of the song can be be found printed in broadsides from the mid-19th century, including "The unfortunate lad" and "The bad girl's lament."
***
Oh, list to the lay of a poor Irish harper,
And scorn not the strains of his withered old hand,
Remember his fingers, they once could move sharper,
To raise up the mem'ry of his dear native land.
***
O'Neill (1850), 1903/1979; No. 363, pg. 63.

BASKET OF TURF (An Cliaban/Cliabh Móna). "Bundle and Go" [1], "The Creel of Turf," "The Disconsolate Buck," "The Lass from Collegeland," "The Unfortunate Rake," "The Wandering Harper," "The Wee Wee Man." Irish, Double Jig. E Minor. Standard. AABB. Some versions are set in the dorian mode, and it is sometimes played with the parts reversed in the order given in Breathnach's CRE II (1976). The song "The Wandering Harper" is set to this air. Holden (Collection of the most esteemed old Irish Melodies, Dublin, 1807) gives it as "The Unfortunate Rake." The melody compares with "Winter Garden Quadrille" in O'Neill's Waifs and Strays of Gaelic Melody (No. 97). Sources for notated versions: accordion player Bill Harte, 1968 (Dublin, Ireland) [Breathnach]; Frank McCollam (Ballycastle, County Antrim) [Mulvihill]; fiddler Con Cassidy (County Donegal) [Feldman & O'Doherty]. Breathnach (CRE II), 1976; No. 52, pg. 28. Feldman & O'Doherty (The Northern Fiddler), 1979; pg. 152 (appears as 1st "Untitled Jig"). Mulvihill (1st Collection), 1986; No. 12, pg. 67. O'Neill (1850), 1903/1979; No. 735, pg. 137. O'Neill (1001 Gems), 1907/1986; No. 32, pg. 22.
T:Basket of Turf, The
L:1/8
M:6/8
S:O'Neill - 1001 Gems (32)
K:E Minor
E|EBB BAG|FDF AGF|EBB Bcd|AGF E2E|EGB BAG|FDF AGF|GAB Bcd|AGF E2:|
|:B|Bee efg|dcB AGF|Eee efg|f^df e2e|Eee efg|dcB AGF|GAB Bcd|AGF E2:|

BUNDLE AND GO [1]. AKA and see "The Basket of Turf," "An Cliabh Mona," "The Wee Wee Man," "The Unfortunate Rake," "The Wandering Harper," "The Lass from Collegeland," "The Disconsolate Buck." Irish, Double Jig. G Major. Standard. AABB. Carlin (Master Collection), 1984; pg. 142 (#246).

DISCONSOLATE BUCK, THE. AKA and see "An Cliabh Mona," "The Basket of Turf," "The Unfortunate Rake," "The Wandering Harper," "Bundle and Go," "The Wee Wee Man," "The Lass from Collegeland."

GENERAL WHITE'S JIG. AKA and see "The Unfortunate Rake," "The Misfortunate Rake," "Sunday is my Wedding Day," "Next Sunday is my Wedding Day," "The Shamrock," "The Squint-eyed Piper," "Rattle the Quilt (to Pieces)," "Kennedy's Jig," "Apples in Winter."

KENNEDY'S JIG. AKA and see "Apples in Winter," "General White's Jig," "Joe Kennedy's Jig," "The Misfortunate Rake," "(Next) Sunday is My Wedding Day," "Rattle the Quilt (to Pieces)," "The Shamrock," "The Squint-eyed Piper," "The Unfortunate Rake." Irish, Double Jig. E Dorian. Standard. AABB. See also Bayard's note on "Hillside" for further information on its origin. Source for notated version: notated in 1847 from the whistling of William Sheedy, Fanningstown, county Limerick [Joyce]. Joyce (Ancient Irish Music), 1890; No. 19, pgs.

LASS FROM COLLEGELAND, THE. AKA and see "An Cliabh Mona," "The Basket of Turf," "The Unfortunate Rake," "The Wandering Harper," "The Disconsolate Buck," "The Wee Wee Man," "Bundle and Go."

MISFORTUNATE RAKE, THE. AKA and see "The Unfortunate Rake," "(Next) Sunday is My Wedding Day," "The Shamrock," "An Piobaire Caoch," "The Squint-eyed Piper," "Rattle the Quilt (to Pieces)," "Kennedy's Jig," "Apples in Winter."

MNA DEASA BHAILE-LOCHA-RIABHACH, NA. AKA and see "Pretty Lasses of Loughrea," "Execution Song."

NEXT SUNDAY IS MY WEDDING DAY. AKA and see "Sunday is My Wedding Day," "The Unfortunate Rake," "Rattle the Quilt (to Pieces)," "The Misfortunate Rake," "The Shamrock," "An Piobaire Caoch," "The Squint-eyed Piper," "General White's Jig," "Apples in Winter," "Kennedy's Jig."

NI-BEID ME AG SNIOM NO FIGEAD. AKA and see "I'll Neither Spin Nor Weave."

PIOBAIRE CAOCH, AN. AKA and see "Apples in Winter," "General White's Jig," "Kennedy's Jig," "The Misfortunate Rake," "Next Sunday is my Wedding Day," "Rattle the Quilt (to Pieces)," "The Shamrock," "The Squint-eyed Piper," "Sunday is my Wedding Day," "The Unfortunate Rake."

RATTLE THE QUILT (TO PIECES). AKA and see "General White's Jig," "Kennedy's Jig," "The Misfortunate Rake," "(Next) Sunday is My Wedding Day," "An Piobaire Caoch," "The Shamrock," "The Squint-eyed Piper," "The Unfortunate Rake," "Apples in Winter."

REICE AN MHI-ADHA. AKA and see "The Unfortunate Rake."

SHAMROCK (REEL), THE [1]. AKA and see "(Next) Sunday is My Wedding Day," "The Misfortunate Rake," "The Unfortunate Rake," "The Squint-eyed Piper," "General White's Jig," "Rattle the Quilt (to Pieces)," "Kennedy's Jig," "Apples in Winter." Irish, Air and Double Jig. E Minor. Standard. AABB. Source for notated version: "Copied from two very old well-written manuscripts lent to me in 1873 by Mr. J. O'Sullivan, of Bruff, Co. Limerick" (Joyce). Joyce (Old Irish Folk Music and Songs), 1909; No. 239, pg. 116.
T:Shamrock, The [1]
L:1/8
M:C
R:Reel
S:Joyce - Old Irish Folk Music
K:D Dorian
dcAB cBcA|GEGA c4|dcAB cBcA|GEcE D2D2:|
Dddd dfed|cde^f gefd|Addd defd|edcB A2A2|Ad ~d2 Ad ~d2|cde^f g2 fg|
a^fge =fdec|Addc d4||

SQUINT-EYED PIPER, THE. AKA and see "The Unfortunate Rake," "The Misfortunate Rake," "General White's Jig," "The Shamrock," "(Next) Sunday is My Wedding Day," "An Piobaire Caoch," "Rattle the Quilt (to Pieces)," "Apples in Winter," "Kennedy's Jig."

SUNDAY IS/WAS MY WEDDING DAY. AKA and see "Apples in Winter," "General White's Jig," "Kennedy's Jig," "The Misfortunate Rake," "Next Sunday is My Wedding Day," "Rattle the Quilt (to Pieces)," "The Shamrock," "The Squint-eyed Piper," "The Unfortunate Rake." Irish, Jig. E Minor (Coles, Williamson): E Dorian (Kerr). Standard. AABB. A member of the "Hillside" family of tunes--see Bayard's (1944) extensive notes under "Red Brick House in Georgia Town." Also a variant of "Hills of Glenorchy." Cole (1001 Fiddle Tunes), 1940; pg. 62. Kerr (Dance to the Fiddle), Vol. 2; No. 265, pg. 29. Ryan's Mammoth Collection, 1882. Williamson (English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish Fiddle Tunes), 1976; pg. 77. Recorded by the Incredible String Band. Revonah RS-924, "The West Orrtanna String Band" (1976. Learned from an Incredible String Band recording).

UNFORTUNATE RAKE, THE [1] ("An Rioboid Mio-Admarac" or "Reice an Mhi-adha"). Irish, Jig. E Minor/Dorian. Standard. AABB (Cole, Kerr): AABB' (O'Neill). Cole (1001 Fiddle Tunes), 1940; pg. 59. Kerr (Merry Melodies), Vol. 1; No. 27, pg. 38. O'Neill (Krassen), 1976; pg. 48. O'Neill (1850), 1903/1979; No. 970, pg. 180.

UNFORTUNATE RAKE, THE [2]. AKA and see "Apples in Winter," "Basket of Turf." Irish, Jig. The tune usually known under the alternate titles appears as "The Unfortunate Rake" in Holden's Collection of the most esteemed old Irish Melodies (Dublin, 1807)

UP SLIGO. AKA and see "The Creel of Turf," "The Green Meadow," "The Lark's March," "The Unfortunate Rake." Irish, Jig. E Dorian. Standard. AB (Miller & Perron): AABB' (DeMarco & Krassen). Source for notated version: composite from John Vesey and John McGreevy [DeMarco & Krassen]. DeMarco & Krassen (Trip to Sligo), 1978; pgs. 26, 40, 54. Miller & Perron (Traditional Irish Fiddle Music), 1977; Vol. 3, No. 21. O'Neill (Krassen), 1976; pg. 48 (appears as "The Unfortunate Rake"). Intrepid Records, Michael Coleman. John & James Kelly - "Irish Traditional Music."
T:Up Sligo
L:1/8
M:6/8
K:E Dorian
D|:EBB BAG|Fdd AFD|EBB EBB|AGF EFD|EBB BAG|Fdd ABc|
dcd| B/A/GB|1 AGF E2 D:|2 AGF E2A||
|:Bee ede|~f3 dBA|Bee Bee|fec d2A|1 Bee ede|f/f/ef dBA|~B3 GBd|
AGF E3:|2 Bcd efg|f/g/af dBA|BdB GBd|AGF E2||

WANDERING HARPER, THE. AKA and see "The Lass from Collegeland," "The Unfortunate Rake," "The Wee Wee Man," "Bundle and Go," "The Basket of Turf," "The Disconsolate Buck."

WINTER GARDEN QUADRILLE. Irish. Compare with "The Basket of Turf," "Bundle and Go" [1], and "Unfortunate Rake" family of tunes. O'Neill (Waifs and Strays of Gaelic Melody), No. 97.

Subject: RE: BUCK'S ELEGY -- A corrupt text?
From: Gareth
Date: 31 Oct 02 - 12:18 PM

Covent Garden - A notorious area of London for meeting the ladies of Ehem "Negotiatable Pleasure".

At the resk of sounding philistine, and no disparaging the fine research done by others, all this proves is that this basic tune and theme spread wildley, I would guess in the packs of the Redcoats.

With regard to Captain ___ & Captain Townsend if this form of words was in printed form it may well be that this was refering to two noted rakes of the time. I can only asumne that Captain ____ may have had sufficiebt money or Political Clout not to risk and action for libel or sedition.

Another point - If it can be dated to the 1820/30s - and thats only 5/15 years after Waterloo The title Captain would not only apply to the Royal Navey, and The regular Army, it would also apply to the militia, and fensibles, and the Merchant Marine, and those Officers or NCO's who took commisions in other foriegn Armies, such as the Portugease.

Just dome thoughts

Gareth

Subject: RE: BUCK'S ELEGY -- A corrupt text?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 31 Oct 02 - 12:53 PM

Definition of Buck, from Francis Grose, 1788, reprinted 1811.

Buck. A blind horse; also a gay debauchee.

A Buck of the First Head. One who in debauchery surpasses the rest of his companions, a blood or choice spirit. There are in London divers lodges or societies of Bucks, formed in imitation of the Free Masons: one was held in the Rose, in Monkwell-street, about the year 1705. The president is styled the Grand Buck. A buck sometimes signifies a cuckold.
Buck Fitch. A lecherous old fellow.
Buckeen. A bully. Irish.

(To kick the bucket. To die. Somehow I had assumed that this phrase was American).

Subject: RE: BUCK'S ELEGY -- A corrupt text?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 31 Oct 02 - 03:11 PM

Masato, the data that you have put together must have taken a fair bit of your time. Thank you!

Subject: RE: BUCK'S ELEGY -- A corrupt text?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 31 Oct 02 - 03:47 PM

Malcolm Douglas also deserves thanks. His knowledge is a great help to those of us who lack decent library facilities and can only afford a short bookshelf.

Subject: RE: BUCK'S ELEGY -- A corrupt text?
From: Robin
Date: 01 Nov 02 - 08:37 AM

IanC, referring to Holloway and Black, says:

"
It was poisoning from the mercury salts used to treat syphilis that killed him. See "The Buck's Elegy", c 1800?, in Holloway and Black's 'Later English Broadside Ballads', I, #17.
"

This doesn't quite work -- the dying buck/rake says:

Had I but known what his disorder was,
        Had I but known it, and took it in time,
I'd took pila cotia, all sorts of white mercury,
        But now I'm cut off in the heighth of my prime.

... i.e. if he'd known that the girl was poxed, he +would+ have taken mercury (then the conventional cure for syphilis). Elsewhere, there's some discussion as to which specific variety of mercury this would be. The rationale was that mercury raised the temperature and killed off the spirochetes, which was also why he was wrapped up in flannel, again to raise the body temperature.

Some glossings have him dying of mercury poisoning, but I think it's more natural to see him as dying of syphilis directly rather than from the indirect attempt to cure that disease.

The tune seems to be recorded earlier than the words, and I think there may be a split here.

Masato on "The Bard of Armagh":

"
BARD OF ARMAGH. AKA and see "Phelim Brady." Irish, Air (3/8 time, "plaintive"). D Major. Standard. One part. The air is the same as that of "The unfortuate rake," an 18th century lament which tells of a dying young man. Other songs set to the tune are, in Ireland, "The convict of Clonmel," and in America, "The Streets of Laredo, "The Cowboy's Lament" and "St. James Hospital." English derivations of the song can be be found printed in broadsides from the mid-19th century, including "The unfortunate lad" and "The bad girl's lament."
***
Oh, list to the lay of a poor Irish harper,
And scorn not the strains of his withered old hand,
Remember his fingers, they once could move sharper,
To raise up the mem'ry of his dear native land.
***
"

Splitting the tune from the words, the words strike me as distinctly late whatever-the-Irish-equivalent-for-mockney is.

Malcolm said:

"
Steeleye Span recorded an arrangement of Mary Doran's When I Was on Horseback; their text is not an independent example of that variant.
"

Thanks for this. It still leaves the problem of why Cork city on the 14th of May? but pushes it back. (The Steeleye Span version is first recorded on "Ten Men's Mop", I think).

Do you have a source for the Mary Doran version?

Thanks everybody -- despite having some long-cherished assumptions destroyed, the information deployed on this thread is marvellous.

Off to try to digest Masato's post.

Robin

Subject: RE: BUCK'S ELEGY -- A corrupt text?
From:
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 09:07 AM

Robin

With reference to what killed the guy, I was just quoting from BruceO's posting which he referred to indirectly above.

By the way, Holloway and Black state quite clearly that almost all of the broadsides in their book are

... from the 18th Century, and have been reprinted from contemporary or near contemporary broadsides in the Madden Collection."

This collection is currently housed in Cambridge University Library, for which day readers cards are fairly easily obtainable. I'll look for it, given time, if you don't beat me to it.

As another PS, I've seen it stated somewhere that the song is in "Pills to Purge Melancholy". I don't believe this. The source I saw (can't remember where) said it was in D'Urfey's 1719/20 1st Edition. I know this isn't true 'cos I spent 2 hours looking through it and it ain't there. D'Urfey's 1st Edition is, however, the 4th Edition and I've also looked through Playford's 1699/1700 collection (it ain't there) as well as a later edition. Does anyone know whether there is an online index to the various versions - it would save me an awful lot of work (particularly on one or two other projects I'm involved with at present.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: BUCK'S ELEGY -- A corrupt text?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 01:41 PM

There's a complete Playford index at The Dancing Master, 1651-1728: An Illustrated Compendium by Robert M. Keller

I haven't found an index for D'Urfey. It would be useful.

Subject: RE: BUCK'S ELEGY -- A corrupt text?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 01:50 PM

You probably already know, but the Madden Collection is also available on microfilm at the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library. The reference for The Buck's Elegy is Slip Songs A-G [VWML mfilm No. 75] Item no. 143.

Subject: RE: BUCK'S ELEGY -- A corrupt text?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 11:49 PM

The Fiddler's Companion has two tunes called "Apples in Winter" folded together. Neither seems to me to have much in common with "The Unfortunate Rake". I don't buy anything from the Fiddler's Companion without checking that it's correct.

Subject: RE: BUCK'S ELEGY -- A corrupt text?
From: Robin
Date: 03 Nov 02 - 12:02 AM

IanC says:

"
By the way, Holloway and Black state quite clearly that almost all of the broadsides in their book are

... from the 18th Century, and have been reprinted from contemporary or near contemporary broadsides in the Madden Collection.

This collection is currently housed in Cambridge University Library, for which day readers cards are fairly easily obtainable. I'll look for it, given time, if you don't beat me to it.
"

Whee!!! Missed that. I've a reader's ticket to CUL, but I don't get there as often as I'd like. So that DOES give a lock into a primary text of the Buck ... Sheesh ...

"
As another PS, I've seen it stated somewhere that the song is in "Pills to Purge Melancholy". I don't believe this. The source I saw (can't remember where) said it was in D'Urfey's 1719/20 1st Edition. I know this isn't true 'cos I spent 2 hours looking through it and it ain't there.
"

I ought to be able to track this -- never read it, but it's an 18thC miscellany, right? (I'm better at 16C miscellanies.) I've the Chadwych-Healey English Poetic Text Database on CD, and that OUGHT to have it. (Though C-H are a bit dicey when it comes to anthologies or miscellanies -- there was a total mess around this when they put the collection together.)

I think I may call in a favour on this -- I've a friend who's based in Cambridge, with a full Reader's Ticket. On the other hand, it might be easier to pull a copy from microfilm. I doubt if Cambridge would allow photocopying. Malcolm, do you know if the BL have Madden on Microfilm? It's actually easier for me to hit the BL than CUL.

Thanks everybody == this is magic.

Sorry, my head's a little elsewhere at the moment. Anyone got an opinion on 1.iv.74 of Ben Jonson's _Silent Woman_, and the long/short ess distinction? When is a wind-sucker a wind-fucker? Yes, I KNOW ... but it's really bloody irritating.

Sometimes, I just so hate editors ...

Incidentally, is any of this likely to be on Early English Books Online? Cambridge subscribe to this but the BL (I think) doesn't. Stoopid microfilms there ...

Robin

Just googled CUL:

Madden [16,000]

18th-19th century broadside ballads, collected by Sir Frederic Madden and mounted in guard-books. To be consulted on microfilm. Card catalogue by title in corridor leading to Munby Rare Book Reading Room.

So CUL has them on micro. Really AM going to call in a favour on this. Presumably, CUL would allow a reader to pull a print from the micro ... ?

R.

Subject: RE: BUCK'S ELEGY -- A corrupt text?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 03 Nov 02 - 12:15 AM

Apples in winter aka Kennedy's Jig, etc. Many names here, no real information: Apples

Subject: RE: BUCK'S ELEGY -- A corrupt text?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 03 Nov 02 - 12:57 AM

Alan Ng's site isn't really very useful unless you're looking for references to modern recordings of tunes with little useful associated information, but no doubt it serves some purpose beside feeding his ego. The Fiddler's Companion is far more informative and less pompous, but as "Guest" mentions, much of the data are taken from unreliable sources which need to be checked independently. There's a lot of stuff there that's quoted from Grattan Flood and Robin Williamson, for example; the former is long discredited and the latter, however much affection we might have for the Incredible String Band, is far from being an expert.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Buck's Elegy (corrupt text?)
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 17 May 25 - 12:33 PM

Francis Henry Maynard clearly heard a version of The Buck's Elegy in 1876 when penned his song The Dying Cowboy.(copyrighted 1911)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Buck's Elegy (corrupt text?)
From: Lighter
Date: 17 May 25 - 01:22 PM

Maynard explained in later years that the song that inspired him was "The Dying Girl's Lament," an intermediate form that was "one of the favorite songs of the cowboys in those days."

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Buck's Elegy (corrupt text?)
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 25 - 02:56 PM

(My Jewel,my joy.)
and over my body throw handfuls of laurel: 1790 Cork?
(The Unfortunate Lad)
over my coffin put handsful of lavender : 1848
(The Bard of Armagh)
the turf that my old bones shall cover: 1847
(The Dying Cowboy)
and lay the sod o'er me 1876
(Cowboy's Lament)
and throw the sod o'er me" 1927 78 rpm                                                                  
(The Cowboy's Lament)
and pour the sod o'er me: 1929 silver screen/1930 78 rpm
(The Streets of Laredo)1947 78 first title recording Ken Carson with Ray Noble Orchestra. no funeral verse.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Buck's Elegy (corrupt text?)
From: RandyL
Date: 28 May 25 - 07:19 AM

The Buck"s Elegy