BS: UFO's and the Bible

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 06:19 PM

I think the book y'all need to read is The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan. Its NOT a novel.

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: GUEST,nice guest
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 06:30 PM

Leper: well, you did get me looking up the Oregon harvesting rules, which are NO harvesting of wild oysters, and cultured are private property. Good rule. Because the oysters are the aliens which rule the Second Quadrant of the Galactic Empire, Helios Division, Earth sector. It keeps the peace.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: GUEST,Glypton
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 06:50 PM

Look people, get serious. There ARE no bibles. None. There never have been and there never will be. There is no such thing as a bible, except in the fevered imaginations of religious nuts and candidates for the psych ward. All you have to do is follow the scientific method, use a little logic, and avoid falling into emotionally-based wish-fulfillment about books that will answer all the "big" questions. I'm really sorry to have to tell you this, but there are no Sopranos either. It's a fictional show. Grow up, okay? Do you really think we're going to institute full trade and diplomatic contacts with Earth while you primitive people continue clinging to unreal stuff like this?

Glypton

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: leprechaun
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 06:58 PM

Well there might have been other reasons for the prohibition against eating oysters. I'm afraid it wouldn't be gentlemanly to go into it too much in depth, but suffice to say, it could relate in some way to the whole forbidden fruit idea, allegorically speaking.

Oh for shame!

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Ed.
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 06:59 PM

Greg F,

Ignoring 'Glypton' I'd agree that Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted World is a fine book. It is however worth remembering that Sagan was human too and made mistakes.

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: NicoleC
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 07:08 PM

Actually, the rule is that all fish for consumption must have fins and scales that are detachable from the skin. Shellfish does not qualify, nor do lobsters, crabs and other crustaceans.

From a dietary standpoint, the prohibition against eating shellfish is a wise one in sanitarily handicapped environment and pre-refridgeration society. Even with our modern conveniences, lots of people have severe and sometimes fatal allergic reactions to shellfish.

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 07:33 PM

Well, Danged! What's UFO's *God* to do with the Bible? Well, heck. I don't see no conflict at all.

Like who's to says that God has only *one* experiment going?

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" I don't think can be taken lierally to mean that there are no other earth's.

Okay, I gotta spill the beans here: I saw a UFO! For real! It was a dark night back in 1972 and I was with this woman in a park about 10 miles west of Langley, Va. where the CIA headquraters are. This area is real close to the Potomac River and we were, ahhh, just talking at that moment and were both looking toward the river and there it was. We both saw it clearly for at least 15 second. Maybe more. Neither of us could say anything until its flight took it behind a tree line when we both just looked at each other and said, "Wow!"

Now, I'm not going as far as to say that this isn't some earth-build airship but it was definately what folks describe as a flying saucer!

So go ahead and say that I must have been either on my medications of off them but I know what I saw. And so did Lisa Hadley.

That's my UFO story and I'z stickin' to it and will agree to take any poligraph anyone wants me to take...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: GUEST,Glypton
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 07:47 PM

See? That's just what I mean. Start believing in something totally irrational like the "Bible", and you can fall for anything. It doesn't matter what kind of fish you eat or don't eat. Have you ever seen anyone fall down and die from eating an oyster? No? Didn't think so. Get your head out of that hole in the ground, stop imitating ostriches, and wake up to reality.

There are NO actual bibles.

Oh sure, there are books that people claim are bibles, and they'll show you photos of them and go on and on about it, and then with an air of "wait till you see this" they'll stride in with one of those books under their arm, all pleased as punch. Well, you know what? It's just another book. It's another one of those dumb paper books they manufacture by the millions and millions on Planet Earth (who knows why?), thus ruining their forests and clouding their minds. You see one book, you've seen them all. Not one of them will answer all your questions about life or give you a handy little moral map by which to plan your destiny. No sir. You've gotta figure out that stuff out yourself using your brain, dumbo! No book will do it for you.

My planet is 15 times older societally speaking than yours and we don't go to "Bibles" or any other spurious books to know that. We go to science and pure thought. Science, math, and clear-headed logic can answer all your questions, brother.

So what should us "UFO" guys care whether or not we are written up in some ancient tome somewhere that purports to be prophetic? Does it really matter? Will it secure you a membership in the Galactic Federation any sooner? No, it won't. Now, do away with that pointless "money" stuff you are all so worried about, get properly organized and unified as one people, end war and poverty once and for all on your planet, and THEN we may be in a position to talk usefully.

As it is now, you guys are a "write-off", if I may use one of your common expressions.

Glypton

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 07:48 PM

"I could say they left the pyramids or the statues on Easter Island, or the runways known as the Nazca Lines"

Yes... you could and 1) you'd be WRONG and 2) you'd be belittling the ancient cultures that toiled to create those structures...

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 07:49 PM

Just what we needed!!! A real alien. He said so. Must be true. So, what's ET really like, and why has Alf lowered himself to doing phone commercials? And what was Michael Redgrave REALLY saying?

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Cluin
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 07:51 PM

Since your planet is so much older, societally speaking, I guess that explains why you've mastered the art of wasting time by repeating yourselves. We're just entering that stage ourselves.

Let us know how it works out for you.

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: GUEST,Glypton
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 08:39 PM

Cluin...

Forgive me for saying this but...you're just not "clued in"! Hee! Hee! Hee! We have mastered arts you yobbos haven't even dreamt of yet. For instance, we mould three dimensional objects in an energy matrix, instead of a solid mould. This results in a far superior moulding with no parting lines, and it takes less than a second. I am now moulding one of you, based on my speculation regarding your appearance. My goodness, you are a sorry sight! I suggest regular exercise, more sun, and a meat-free diet. It's not hopeless!

BuckMulligan...

Where do I start? First of all, Buck, I don't think that's your reall name. I think you are funning with me. Fine. I don't mind. ET was a fictional character, Buck. Sorry to have to tell you this.

Now sit down. Are you sitting down? Alf is a puppet, Buck. Yes. He's a puppet. A lousy one too, I might add.

Michael Redgrave? You've lost me there, Buck. Michael doesn't rate too high on my World, but I'll see if I can track down whatever obscure Earth stuff he was connected with. He's an actor, right?

It beats me where you people get your Earth cadet notions about reality.

Bobert...

Ah, my friend, you have seen one of the Federation vessels I would expect, but I couldn't say which one. We've got a lot of members. We've been observing this planet for signs of moderately intelligent life for some time now, lately dodging the missiles that your idiot military people are fond of, and hanging in hoping for, like I said, sings of moderately intelligent life.

We were quite intrigued by your president Nixxon back in 1972, so it might have had to do with observing him. He had the most extraordinary nasal structure. Every time you looked at his nose it seemed to get a little longer. Fascinating. It's a pity you retired him early, so we didn't get to see the process complete itself. It might have made nasal history in the entire quadrant.

Clinton was very entertaining too, needless to say. The present fellow you've got seems barely sentient, however.

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 09:09 PM

Cluin?

What does it (used to??) say on yer web site...

When they made this guy, they broke the mould, but they made him anyway...

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: GUEST,wdyat24
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 09:31 PM

This would make a great XFile!

wdyat24

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: GUEST,wdyat24
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 10:29 PM

The laoding has begun! YESSS!!! I finally put this post on the right thread!

wdyat24

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 10:39 PM

hey liddle, hi liddle liddle liddle layoding, hi lee liddle lee oh leh hee hee, hi liddle liddle layoding...:)

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 11:17 PM

Which part of the scientific method or of rational thought do you consider "a mistake" there Ed?

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 12:56 AM

Greg - It might be the part that disregards evidence not recognizable to the observer due to his rigid ways of observing and interpreting reality.

Example: A guy was trying to test the hearing of spiders. He would make a loud noise and see if the spider jumped. It did. He cut one of its legs off and made another loud noise. Again it jumped. He continued removing legs and making noises with similar results. At last the spider had no legs. No matter how loud a noise he made, it would not jump. Conclusion...spiders hear with their legs.

Impeccable logic, hindered by lack of perception. Now, I'm sure you've heard this trite little story before, but it's not intended to be taken literally. Rather, it demonstrates a point about the way people think when their awareness is limited to certain narrow paths of interpretation.

And whose awareness is not so limited?

Thus the most certain conclusions of one generation of scientists are frequently shown to be faulty by a succeeding generation...and people usually see exactly what they want to see...what their cultural norms have prepared them to see. If they don't believe in something, they usually don't see it either (or even realize they aren't seeing it).

Erik Von Daniken sees alien visitors behind every statue. Another guy sees ancient fertility cults. Another guy sees Atlantean colonies. And on, and on, and on....

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 02:49 AM

Alright Clinton-perhaps you are right. Perhaps I am. I mean who is to say that the people didn't have a little help building those things. I don't want to argue the point I want to discuss the point. If you can tell me where those rocks came from on Easter Island (rocks un-native to the area) I would love to hear your theory on that. If you can say how those runways were so aligned to the stars when they had no concept of 'flying vessels'- I would like to hear what you think. I don't want to hear that I am wrong, I want you to tell me that you have a theory also, and what it is.

Hey Bobert- I'm glad you came in. I wasn't going to let this thread die without something from you! And I am so glad you spoke on seeing a craft. I think a lot of people would if they got out to watch the skies more. I have seen lights doing strange patterns and hovering over a building in Dallas once, and I see lights in a field close by my home occasionally that should not be there. They are only there once or twice a year but it is a desolate area and I see them in the same place when I see them. I've always wanted to check them out, when I see them, but I don't have the guts.
Hey Ed- I would also like to hear your take on some of this biblical scriptures I've pointed out. How do you decipher them?
Peace. Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Terry K
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 03:56 AM

Hah, Glypton, you must be a fake!

Cos if you're so clever, you wouldn't waste time looking for signs of moderately intelligent life in West Virginia, so there!!

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: leprechaun
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 05:55 AM

Hey Glypton! Klatu, Barato, Nictu! On the half-shell, baby!

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 11:46 AM

Ah, C'mon, LH- your example is absurd. What you're describing is not scientific methodology at all. Its NOT logic, impeccible or otherwise, but entirely fallacious and a violation of every tenet of proper scientific inquiry. All it demonstrates is a bogus thesis.

Of course succeding generations of scientists revise update and annotate earlier work- that's how knowledge accmulates. That doesn't make the METHOD suspect.

Then if people usually see exactly what they want to see...what their cultural norms have prepared them to see. If they don't believe in something, they usually don't see it either...

If you think about this for a moment, you'll see this negates your whole argument. If people want to see UFO's, they'll see 'em even if there is a much more mundane and practical ecplanation for them.

No?

Best, Greg

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 02:16 PM

"If you can tell me where those rocks came from on Easter Island (rocks un-native to the area) I would love to hear your theory on that"

You ah, better check yer sources mate... The quarries on Easter Island are as easy to find as the Rappa-Nui (sp?) are themselves...

"If you can say how those runways were so aligned to the stars when they had no concept of 'flying vessels'- I would like to hear what you think"

What Runways? The Nazka (again, sp?) Lines? They weren't runways... They were most likely ceremonial paths to be followed during certain celebrations... The belief that they couldn't have been build or appreciated without flight is erroneous... And well, any fool can see the stars from the ground, why is stellar alignment such a bizarre concept?

"I mean who is to say that the people didn't have a little help building those things"

The did have help.. the had the generations of builders who came before them... Take a look at Egyptology... Look around the Valley Of The Kings and you see lots of incomplete, or improperly constructed pyramids... It's not like the Great Pyramid sprung up in a vacuum... Or The Rappanui of Easter Island... Again, one can look at the learning curve these people experienced while making them...

The same goes for the South American pyramids... There's LOTS of evidence of a learning curve.. They didn't come from Atlantis (The is NO lost continent! plain and simple) And as to why they look like Egypt's pyramids? Well, what did you expect a pyramid to look like???   All the pyramids in the world are pyramid shaped...   They have to be or they fall down...

Look... Sure... I'd like to think that we're not alone... that the universe is teaming with sentient life zipping all over in their faster-than-light vehicles, tinkering with sub-species, and anal-probing red-necks but the more and more good science I read, the less and less that situation seems even remotely possible... Check into information on the carbon cycle of our planet and it's effect on plant life, and you'll see exactly what a small window of complex life our planet has... (as a matter of fact, there's a good link above in a post dated 31 Jan 03 - 02:54 PM... check it out)

And well, as I mentioned before... the belief that our ancestors couldn't have achieved such great things on their own is insulting...

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 03:50 PM

Well, yes, Greg...I follow you. Trouble is, I wasn't wanting in the least to see UFO's when I first did see them, in the late 60's. I was scientifically minded, and did not believe in such things, you see. And yet I saw them! Which goes to show that sometimes you can wake up out of a confirmed prejudice about reality if you're willing to, and it doesn't devastate your pride too much. I've been interested in them ever since, but have not seen any more since 1968. I have read a lot of interesting material about it, though, and have met some (in my opinion) very trustworthy individuals with their own stories to tell.

I'll not bore you be recounting any of them. I know it wouldn't help a bit.

I don't waste my time explaining origami to aardvarks, evolution to Jehovah's witnesses, or the Bible to guys like Glypton. Not any
more, anyway.

Clinton - What makes you think that everything isn't alive? It just depends how carefully you observe things, and at what level. What does "life" require for you to say it's "life"? Movement? Nope. Consciousness? Maybe. Blood? Nope. A heart? Nope. Procreation? Nope. A body? Maybe not. You ought to consider larger possibilities, Clinton, or you may end up like your namesake, poor old President Bill...a lousy saxophone player with a declining but still famous libido.

Our planet has a small window for OUR familiar types of life. There may well be others, based on what you would term a completely different biology.

Fire is alive, Clinton. Stone is alive. Clouds are alive. Air is alive. Planets are alive. Don't believe me? Tough.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 04:00 PM

Contact with life similar to ours is the only contact that's important... What's the point of finding life you cannot communicate with???

The universe is likely teaming with life...

Unfortunately, maybe 98% of anything we might even recognize is most likely single cell life... Big whoop...

Fire isn't alive, it's a simple chemical reaction... Stone, clouds, air... nor them... And all the new age hippy longing in the universe ain't gonna make it so...

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: *daylia*
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 04:09 PM

Gotta have heart to hear the stones sing Clinton!   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 04:15 PM

Ya also gotta be on glue, Daylia!

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 04:21 PM

Well, I agree, Clinton, that stones are a less fragile form of life in some respects than you are, as you will find out if one falls on your head. :-) They're very patient too. I am less so.

Chemical reactions are a form of life too. And a fascinating one, for sure.

Here's another question for you. Does life necessitate having free will? What do you think? I think not. Only higher forms of life have free will.

Where does your definition of what is alive end? And where does it begin? Don't just toss off a glib response. Think about it some, and see what you come up with.

"What's the point of finding life you cannot communicate with???"

Yeah! Oooo, I like that! That may be precisely why the UFO guys have been less than enthusiastic about dealing openly and directly with the narrow-minded and paranoid fools down here on this planet.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 04:32 PM

LH...

"stones are a less fragile form of life"
"Chemical reactions are a form of life too"

No... they are not...

I'll say now, I'm done with ya... and I'll quote you for my reasons why...

"I don't waste my time explaining origami to aardvarks, evolution to Jehovah's witnesses, or the Bible to guys like Glypton."

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 04:39 PM

And there we rest comfortably in mutual contempt for each other's arrant conceit and stupidity. Hell, I've seen marriages that endured for a lifetime on that basis. The best is yet to come, Clinton.

And now....BACK to "UFO's and the Bible"!!! Yadda, yadda, yadda.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Ed.
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 04:42 PM

How to make an Origami Aardvark

Sorry, I was going to write a reply to you, Little Hawk. If, however, you really believe that stones are alive, I don't see much point.

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 05:01 PM

And if you're too mentally lazy to bother wondering what I mean when I use the word "alive" or to give me your own definition of what you think "alive" means, you'd be dead right about that, Ed. There would be no point.

I've seen origami aardvarks before somewhere...

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: *daylia*
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 05:08 PM

Thoughts on 'hearing the stones sing' ... from "Hanta Yo - An American Saga" (Hill)

"Live and appreciate yourself, the grandfathers say. Recognize that your ears grant songs to the trees and to the stream. Soar on the wings of these songs; they belong to you. Use your body for giving growth to the spirit - your spirit. You, who shall become the Great Spirit."

Ahhhh ... put that in your pipe and smoke it, Clinton!

;-)   daylia

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 05:16 PM

You can talk new age all ya want, it's old age gonna get ya in the end

If you need a definition of "alive" maybe you should pick up a little book I like to call a dictionary...

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 05:26 PM

Yo, LH, how 'bout "door nails"... Hmmmmmm?

Nanu Nanu...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: leprechaun
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 05:29 PM

I just bought the Stone's Forty Licks CD! I think it would only hurt a little bit if it fell on my head. But I still keep it securely in the cabinet, just in case.

Meanwhile, Clinton and I are going to smoke some Amanita Muscaria, brew up some peyote tea, and become enlightened.

And I'm starting to think Little Hawk doesn't use drugs like Bill Clinton didn't have sex with that woman.

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 05:51 PM

My last post vanished into cyberspace. Too bad. It was a good one.

Lep - the only drugs I use are as follows:

1. 1 or 2 aspirin when I get a bad headache. That happens occasionally, maybe once in a month...usually when I stay up too late on the computer.

2. Tea with a slice of lemon.

3. I had a glass of wine too...oh...a couple of weeks ago. I manage to consume maybe a bottle or two of wine over the course of a year, when I think of it, which is not too often. Usually it's when I'm visiting somewhere, and I become suddenly aware that alcohol is a daily ritual for a lot of people.

That's it, brother. If everyone was like me the drug dealers would all be out of a job, the breweries would go bust, the tobacco companies would die, and Bush would have had one less reason to invade Afghanistan, cos there'd be no one to sell the opium crop to.

Fools take drugs to gain enlightenment. That's my opinion. Bigger fools take drugs just to get high or feel "cool" amongst their peers.

I ask you again, Clinton: Where does your definition of what is "alive" end? And where does it begin?

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 06:04 PM

Bobert - Yeah, doornails are alive too, but their awareness is extremely limited. They don't believe Clinton Hammond is alive.   It's no use talking to them about it...just like talking to a brick wall. If you try to explain it to them, they tell you to look the word "alive" up in the dictionary. I did, and it says: living, lively, brisk, swarming. Wow. How illuminating! I could've done better to ask George Bush or the village idiot.   :-)

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 06:06 PM

I need some food. Talk amongst yourselves. If Clinton shows any discernable signs of life, PM me at once.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 06:22 PM

I know what you say about stones being alive. Of coarse they are alive. I have always been under the impression that everything is 'energy' Rocks being a dense form of energy.
How do you suppose Jesus walked on water? He manipulated the energy to a denser form.
Peace. Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 06:49 PM

Well danged, LH, there goes the "Dead as a doornail" thing. Man, is nothing sacred??? Er what? But I'm glad that you cleared that up fir my Little Hawk, 'cause I'z like to bring lots of things in the house and have 'em as buddies. I git hundreds of rocks in my house. Iz just messin' in the garden and find one and we kinda get a little rock-bobert thing going and next thing it's on my nightstand. Now, I probably would have door nails to, except Iz not too sure what a door nail is? But I have 6 rail road spikes who are my friends. Does that count? Got 'em up on the mantle over the fireplace and I like to arrange them differently but I'm sure they get lonely so I keep a cat's skull with 'em so they'llm have something to grove with... Hey, I'm not messin' here. I really do have lots and lots of friends/pets that I've adopted. Drives the poor P-Vine nuts when I bring home my friends but so far she ain't left me over it....

And just 'cause a rock may not make a good conversationalist don't mean ya' can't talk to them. And they are not at all agressive. Yeah, I know someone is going to point out rock slides but, hey, that ain't their fault, dang it....

Now this is one heck of a thread. I've confesssed to seein' a UFO and to talking to rocks. Danged. Who delt this mess, anyway...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: leprechaun
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 06:50 PM

Well I have this theory about skateboards...

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 07:03 PM

Clinton- your right about the stone coming from the quarries there on Easter Island. I haven't done any reading on that in years but I thought I had remembered that was the controversy at the time. It still is a controversial subject with how they moved the statues-And true I admit our ancestors were a brilliant people, and I'm going to ruffle your feathers again, but just maybe they aquired some of that brilliancy from a wiser spiecies of people not from this world.
Also you are right -lines not runways. That came from some old stuff off the top of my head too, that they were called runways.
I still would be intrested to hear some input on deciphering the meaning of some of these biblical scriptures that no-one seems to want to get into. Is it fear of thinking I could be right?
I did do a search on the Islands and found this site and within it everything I mentioned-the Island, pyrimids and the Lines and even Eric Von Danikin who you had mentioned earlier Clinton, someone I have never heard about but I am going to check out what he has to say one of these days.
Easter Island mention-on unmuseum
Peace. Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 07:11 PM

Nice going there, Bobert. Rocks and stones are pretty independent and self-sufficient types, but it's no secret that some of them are looking for a good home...a place where they are both loved and respected. I feel deep shame when I think of all the rocks I busted on other rocks and threw into deep water when I was a kid. I mean, uncountable thousands of 'em! Probably hundreds of thousands. Maybe millions, even. Just like Dubya tossing little Iraquis around, I was...

God, the sins of my feckless youth! Well, I am nicer to rocks now. I think any rock that moves in with you is in for a nice experience, because you gotta be a nice guy to like railroad spikes. I picked up a few of those glass insulator things from telephone poles too...they are really neat! Found 'em beside the train line out by the woods.

Y'know, I really miss hearing the trains go by at night. There are very few of them now, and most of the rural branch lines have been shut down. What a shame. If I was in charge, I would've kept steam engines running just about forever, but I would've put smoke filters on 'em to keep the dirt under control.

I'm having my favourite drug now...Earl Grey tea...but have no lemons around, so I put honey in it. Not bad. They say Stonewall Jackson used to chew on lemons all the time, while pondering military strategy. I can relate to that. They clear the mind and sharpen perception.

Hmmmmm...enlightenment through lemons? Sounds like a whole new discipline. Maybe I should write a book about it.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 07:21 PM

"maybe they aquired some of that brilliancy from a wiser spiecies of people not from this world"

Given all the good arguments against such a scenario, it's more likely they just figured 'em out on their own....


"Eric Von Danikin" is an unscientific flake, a crack-pot, and an idiot who gives speculation into things not easily explained a very bad name...

I'm out for a gig...

See ya's!

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 07:58 PM

Take a deep breath, Clinton. (when you get back from the gig) Sit down.

I agree that Eric Von Daniken is a flake. He's like a saxophone player who only knows one note, but man can he play that one note LOUD!!! He is an embarrassment to any serious UFO-ophile, in my opinion.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 08:19 PM

Man. LH, I gotta agree with you about the trains. I used to live on Fulton Hill in Richmond, Va. and down in Fulton Bottom were the train yards. Well, a lot of folks don't appreciate train yards or even understand what goes on in 'em. But in a big city, that's where all the cars are sorted out for the next day. Some are empty that need to be pushed around the city to be filled and others are filled and need to be pushed around the city to where they will be emptied. Well, this work occurs at night. Yep, thetre is an entire nocternal population that does this every night. The use *yard engines* and push and pull cars and get 'em lined up so that during the day these same yard engines do their thing and get 'em all where they need to be.

Well, now there's something about the sound of these yard engines straining to push and pull tons and tons. And there's something about the sound of a car coupling. It is very exciting as tons meet tons and sometimnes when the train is going too fast, like 3 mph instead of 2.5 mph, there is a violent collison and it rocks the entire area. Like real cool.

One would think that this would be a terrible thying to get used to but it's very soothing. I lived up there for 8 years of my life with them trains crashing and banging all night long and never slept better. When I moved, I couldn't sleep well for weeks...

Something about trains. Yeah...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 08:25 PM

Righto. Those are "Yard Goats" or "Yard Bulls", those engines. There's a great HO set of a Yard Bull out now in the Zehr's grocery stores in Canada...only about $75 for a set that's worth easily $150 or more. The parts are all made by IHC, which makes excellent trains.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: NicoleC
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 09:48 PM

RR, avoid the Von Daniken like the plague. First, he's a loonie. Second, using the phrase "von Daniken says" in any discussion automatically reduces your credibility to his... i.e. none to speak of.

To chime in with an opinion here, let me preface by saying I think the large body of circumstantial evidence and the liklihood of multiple sorts of intelligent species among the various universes at least makes it reasonably possible that aliens visited this planet and may even be doing so now. A key question is, "what do they want to get out of us?" What do we possibily have to offer in return? One non-scary hypothesis is that they are much like us, and are just curious.

But let us set aside for a moment space-going alien anthropologists.

Humans beings several thousand years ago are not physically different than human beings today, and this means that they were as intelligent as us. They had their own visionaries and geniuses, and understood their own technology and available resources FAR better than we do today.

People tend to gravitate to the alien theory because we like to assume that our ancestors were poor, stupid, inept primitives. (We also like to assume that there MUST be something more powerful than us out there, but that's another thesis.) And yet, we don't understand a fraction of their world and knowledge. If we don't understand their language and way of life, how can we presume to make definitive statements about their achievements?

But we'll go, "how did those stupid primitives do THIS" and point to something like the pyramids. The Egyptians could communicate quite well, I think they would tell us if an alien told them how to build a pyramid. In reality, any two year old making a pile of rocks grasps the engineering potential of a pyramid. Rocket science, it ain't.

Even presuming the lines of Nazca relate to flying and are not simply artwork -- how do we KNOW that they didn't have any concept of flying machines? They have bird, there, they must understand motion through the air. The ancient Greeks could conceive of flying, but those primitive native Americans could not? How do we even know they didn't succeed at flying? Truth is, we don't. I doubt that they did, personally, but modern aerospace engineers aren't sure how the Wright Brothers got in the air, and that was only a century ago.

When faced with a choice between hypothetical invisible aliens, and the resourcefulness of people who are as intelligent and thoughtful as we are today, I know which one seems more likely to me. As for pictures and drawings and fanciful stories -- that kind of creativity is what propels up to new inventions, and it certainly wasn't lacking in our ancestors and more than we lack it today. I went through a phase where I considered all the alien theories -- but finally, they simply don't seem anywhere near as likely as the fact that our ancestors were pretty bright people that were as adept at problem solving as we are today.

Subject: RE: BS: UFO's and the Bible
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 10:04 PM

Well, danged, LH. (Sniff) I feel like we've been trivialized with our sentimental feelings about trains as Nicole just shot right on over us as we were stopping by that spot on a snowy evening. Well, so what? Trains is cool and I like that set of m odels that they are offering up in your neighborhood. I got lots of models myself, but more trucks than trains.

Excuse me, gotta go. Was having a nice talk with a burled piece of tree that I've drug in the house and don't want to hurt its feeelings....

Bobert