Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 04:20 AM

I have 3 recording of'Cliffs'. Two, Christy Moore, and Peggy Sweeney, say 'take a view o'er the mountains'. The other, Noel Healey, says 'take a view o'er the Shannon'. Detailed topographical maps show only flat farmland and no mountains on either the Kerry or Clare side. I watched the Sweeney DVD again. It opens in Ballybunion, where there are some modest cliffs. This, I think, tells us that Dooneen must be in the Ballybunion area.

I agree with you Jim. I never go back to my old home in Donegal because I can barely see Lough Foyle from it any more because of new houses. It used to be an open view. And Muff is now virtually a suburb of Derry (tho the two are in different countries!)

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 07:44 AM

Big Tim you will be pleased to know I am with you all the way, I put those other placenames in to `stir the pot`.
I have been around the area but never bothered to look, what you say makes sense. Henryetta Kildee?, never heard of it.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 08:38 AM

In answer to your question Big Tim, the Ciffs are there.

I walked them in the 50'

As you get to Beal Point, a long rock juts out and is known as
the Goats Back.

On my next trip I will take some photos.

I have one now, taken last year from Beal strand looking westward.

Do not be misled that Dooneen is in Cork.If they can't have the
Sam Maguire they might be trying to claim something just as beautiful

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 09:43 AM

Thanks Ard and Dooneen boy.

I'm going to source the relevant Shannonside Annual. The article there should answer all our questions. However, it's a snail mail job, so give me a few weeks.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 10:34 AM

I was on the cover of the Shannonside Annual.

Missing verse:

I have traced my loves' footsteps to the boathouse of old
And the dance on the hillside, where love stories were told
Where the hare and the rabbit and old carrigeen'
All grow on the slopes 'round the Cliffs of Dooneen

If a Dooneen reunion occurs that Cork man will be very lonley.
He should bring a mirror.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 12:12 PM

Thanks again Dooneen boy. Can you tell us what year the article was in the Shannonside Annual?

Con Dee had a couple of articles in the SA (1958, 1960) about the Valley of Knockanure, which Peggy Sweeney sings on location in her DVD referred to above. No, I'm not on commission, she's just a lovely singer.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 02:04 PM

Big Tim, you seem to know your way around the area.
Are we neighbours?.

Beal means: Hatchet shaped cliff. ( More proof )

There was a Beal Bar. ( Pub)

There is another verse. Some of the word I mixed into the last one.
When I get it right I will post it.

Lissadoneen= Lios a Duinin. Fort of the little Dun(e) in Beal

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 08:07 PM

I have browsed some of the notes in this site, and things need to be set straight.

Duneen and Litter in "Barr na Sraide" are of the area.

Litter is Litter Strand, a stones throw from Beal and a half a stones throw from Asdee, depending the size of the stone.

Big Tim, I was on the cover 1957-58
( Damm I'm getting old )
Not sure if The Cliffs were covered in that issue.
I will find out.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 04:08 AM

I've never been in Kerry but I can read a map (and watch a DVD)!

Re Barr na Sráide, it's just a coincidence that there is both a Dooneen and a Letter in the Beal area. The song isn't set there. The two place names in Barr na Sráide are in fact both just outside Cahirsiveen, definitely. Cahersiveen was home to Sigerson Clifford who wrote that song and he was writing about his home town. Since 'letter' means 'hillside' there are hundreds of them in Ireland (and Scotland). I have checked the background of Barr na Sráide with the great Kerry singer Tim Dennehy who is from Cahersiveen and who knew Clifford personally and who has made a CD of his songs. Tim's a fine singer but an even better songwriter, check his website).

The Peggy Sweeney DVD also includes Boys of Barr na Sráide and shows nice footage of Cahersiveen, including the street nameplate Barr na Sráide, the street where Sigerson Clifford grew up.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:52 AM

Big Tim I stand corrected on Barr na Sraide.

You should visit Kerry and view the cliffs

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 12:25 PM

I intend to DB. As I said above, I've been in the other 31 counties.
Mainly, I want to see Cahersiveen, Knockanure and Dooneen. I'm just going to get into the car this summer and go (from Scotland). Actually, there's a place beside me here in Argyll called Gairletter, means something like 'short hillside'.

I've emailed Kerry County Library about Cliffs of Dooneen. They've been very helpful in the past so hopefully I'll have a pile of info soon, which I'll post here, if you don't beat me to it!

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 12:34 PM

Big Tim you are right about Peggy Sweeney and The Valley of Knocknure, brilliant.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 04:03 PM

I guess we're not neighbours.

We just miss each other by 4000mls. approx.

I hope you enjoy your trip to Duneen.

Hope to make a trip this year.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 05:30 PM

Bit of a digression here, threadrift, only slightly cos it's still about Kerry music.

I can't recommend Tim Dennehy too highly. My favourite album of his is called 'Blue Green Door'. This includes some little known but very good traditional songs, like 'Carden's Wild Domain' and the totally georgeous but tragic 'Boating on Lough Ree'.

Also included are two great original songs written by Tim. I'm sure he won't mind me quoting some personal stuff about him as he has already published his lyrics in his sleeve notes.

1. 'The Parted Years' (a tribute to his mother, opening verse)

If you should come at autumn time when yellowed leaves do fall,
And the first frost glistens on the heel-trod ground,
I will hear you call...

And I will take your hand and walk,
through all the parted years,
and the rich earth lying between us shall,
drink our lonely tears.

2. 'Memorial' (dedicated to Tim's brother Pat who died in 1968, aged 17)

A cold spring wind now shoves the gate,
As it has done since sixty-eight...

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,henryettta
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 10:32 AM

Ard macha, you asked:

Henryetta Kildee?, never heard of it.

What you do in a case like that is double click on my name, where it's underlined and blue. That will show my previous posts. Look at my previous post and you will see that a killdee is a bird.

=====
Now then. If 'Kill' is 'cell,' is Killarney the cell of Arnie? Norwegian monk who moved south?

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 11:06 AM

kildeeR

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 05:47 PM

Henryetta, I thought you were referring to placenames.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 09:50 PM

Kildeer looks like a lapwing (Peewit).

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 09:56 PM

Please translate!

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 08:05 AM

Beal is in the Parish of Ballybunion

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 08:20 AM

Just to throw a small linguistic spanner into the works, Dooneen may be one of those placenames that repeats all over the country - the word in Irish means a little fort.

The Kerry poet Brendan Kennelly was talking on last Saturday's The Poetry Programme on RTE Radio 1 about how he used to write poems about people's tiny native townland or village for them to take away with them to Australia or America. Perhaps in the future people will be arguing about where these long-forgotten places are.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 09:01 AM

My dad told me when I left, "Always respect where you are, but never forget where you came from"

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 11:38 AM

Perhaps the cliffs are less lofty for this reason?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_erosion


Many thanks to those above who contributed extra verses!

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 12:31 PM

Townlands aren't too difficult to find nowadays as all 60,000+ are on the web (and marked on the OS maps).

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 08:12 PM

MartinRyan, thanks for the link to the bird photos. They are just beautiful.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:36 AM

Leeneia,

You're welcome - another of my minor obsessions!

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:38 AM

"Dooneen. WHERE?"
It's in the next parish to The Big Rock candy Mountain.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 03:46 PM

Well blow me over with a feather. I thought Dooneen was sort of mythical, like Glaucamora or Brigadoon (are they???). Never knew it was for real. I also thought it was one of those Bing Crosbyish songs we were not supposed to like although I do like them. My ancestors on my father's father's side are from I believe the westernmost part of the Kingdom of Kerry in Ballyferriter, Dingle. How close would that be? I hope to get to Ireland this very year with an exact destination for once....mg

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 03:22 PM

It's about an hour and a half drive.

Happy St. Patrick's Day from The Catskills New York

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 03:56 PM

Kerry Libraries still haven't replied to my email. Maybe I'll get something in the post.

I watched the BBC Northern Ireland News a short time ago. Hundreds of people walked up Slemish Mountain, Antrim, where St. Patrick worked as a slave swine herder, maybe. And both newsreaders were wearing shamrocks. The times they are a-changin'.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 04:06 PM

They sure are.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 10:19 AM

The times I mean.....

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 11:02 AM

I have a phpto of the Cliffs.
How do I share it?

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 12:19 PM

It can be done by email. However, it's probably not advisable to put email addresses on a public forum like Mudcat. You could join Mudcat and then exchange email addresses by Personal Message between Mudcat only members. (it's simple to use).

Someone with more tech know how than I may be able to suggest alternatives.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Dooneen Boy
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 07:34 PM

OK I'll do that when I get back to home base.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:35 PM

There are several photo-sharing sites on the web. You need but sign up.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 10:42 AM

Still no word from Kerry Libraries. I'll going to write to them.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Big Tim
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 12:11 PM

Got an email from Kerry Libraries today. They checked the bank numbers of the Shannonside Annual but found no article on 'Cliffs of Dooneen' there. All they have on the song is the lyrics.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,thomaspierce09
Date: 09 May 08 - 08:50 PM

they are located in beal, 3 miles north of ballybunion on my neighbours land. i've been to them about a million times and you can see claire eassily, the dooneen cliffs are very high giving a very good view point and is overlooked by beal wind farm.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 30 May 08 - 06:43 PM

I'm back.

09 and I know where they are.

West of the Station!

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Dooneen Boy
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 08:14 PM

I will walk them again in about three weeks.

I will take some photo's.

Big Tim you should join me.

09 u should pose.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Dooneen Boy
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 08:17 AM

To whom it may concern,

The cliffs are still there.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,David Ingerson
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:19 AM

Fascinating thread! Thanks everyone.

This was one of the first Irish songs I learned (back in '79) but I let it lapse because of how popular it had become. I always did like it, though, just like mg. Now maybe with another rare verse....

Cheers,

David

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 11:37 AM

Yes indeed doon and dooneen are townlands north of ballybunion, only a few miles away. the whole coastline is littered with promintery forts such as lick castle etc...and very very rocky
my mothers family are from kilconly parish at leansechane a skip and a jump down from beal

absolutely beautiful area

Subject: Lyr Add: CLIFFS OF DOONEEN (Jack McAuliffe)
From: Captain Pugwash
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 11:21 PM

Living in Kilkee and working in Kilrush, as well as having friends in North Kerry and knowing several people who sing the song, I've been curious about The Cliffs of Dooneen for some time myself.

Finally, I've recently been sent Jack McAuliffe's supposedly "original" words, which prove to be those of a significantly different "Kerry" version of the "Clare" song that most people are familiar with. Indeed, has anybody ever heard the McAuliffe version sung?

THE CLIFFS OF DOONEEN, by Jack McAuliffe:

Verse 1

I have travelled afar from my own native home.
Away o'er the billows, away o'er the foam
I have seen many sights but no equal I've seen
To the old rocky slopes by the cliffs of Dooneen.

Verse 2

I have seen many sights of Columbus fair land,
Africa and Egypt so Delightful and grand,
But dig me a grave were the grass it grows green
On the old rocky slopes by the cliffs of Dooneen.

Verse 3

How pleasant to walk on a fine summer's day,
And to view the sweet cherries that will never decay,
Where the seagrass and seaweed and the old carrageen
All grow from the rocks by the cliffs of Dooneen.

Verse 4

The Sandhills of Beal are glorious and grand,
And the old castle ruins looking out on the strand,
Where the hares and the rabbits are there to be seen
Making holes for their homes by the cliffs of Dooneen.

Verse 5

I have tracked my love's footsteps to the boathouse of old
And the dance on the hillside where love stories are told,
It's there you will see both the lad and the colleen
Moving round by the shore of the cliffs of Dooneen

Verse 6

Farewell Dooneen, Farewell for a while,
And to those kind-Hearted neighbours that I left in the isle,
Ma my soul never rest till it's laid on the green
Near the old rocky slopes by the Cliffs of Dooneen

Notice that these words make no claim to be able to see Kilrush, Kilkee or anywhere else in Clare, whilst all the places described in the usual version of the song can be seen from Moveen, outside Kilkee.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Big Tim
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 10:35 AM

Thanks Captain Pugwash, most interesting!

Can you elaborate in any way on the source, authenticity, etc, of the lyrics that you posted?

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: Captain Pugwash
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 01:13 AM

Big Tim,

I was sent the words by someone I don't know, through the internet. I've (today) asked them for more information, but similar verses have already been quoted here...

Oh, and by the way, I've stood at Dooneen Point with binoculars - you can make out the mouth of Kilrush Creek alright, though not the town itself, however Kilkee lies in a hollow and there are hills in between, so it isn't visible from there.

The only vantage point from which you can see all the sights described in the more usual versions of the song - "a view o'er the Shannon", "the high rocky mountains o'er the west coast of Clare", "the towns of Kilkee and Kilrush" and "the high rocky slopes round the cliffs" - is Moveen Hill (which is the view from the back of my house) and the spectacular cliffs beside it are at Doonaghboy.

(Doonaghboy + Moveen = ?)

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST,Dooneen Boy
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 06:59 PM

It is there if you want to see it.

Subject: RE: Origins: Cliffs of Dooneen. WHERE?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 02:26 PM

Came across this completely by accident - I'm from Kilkee

The Geographical/topographical anomalies pointed out are correct. Kilkee and Kilrush cannot be seen from the coast of Kerry. They can however be seen from the Hill of Moveen outside Kilkee, apparently the original title of the song.

Subject: Lyr Add: CLIFFS OF DOONEEN (Jack McAuliffe)
From: GUEST,dooneen.com
Date: 23 Nov 08 - 04:09 PM

The Cliffs of Dooneen

I have traveled afar from my own native home.
Away o'er the billows, away o'er the foam
I have seen many sights but no equal I've seen
To the old rocky slopes by the cliffs of Dooneen

I have seen many sights of Columbus fair land,
Africa and Asia so delightful and grand,
But dig me a grave were the grass it grows green
On the old rocky slopes by the cliffs of Dooneen.

How pleasant to walk on a fine summers day.
And to view the sweet cherries that will never decay,
Where the sea grass and seaweed and the old carrageen
All grow from the rocks by the cliffs of Dooneen.

The Sand hills of Beal are glorious and grand,
And the old castle ruins looking out on the strand,
Where the hares and the rabbits are there to be seen
Making holes for their homes by the cliffs of Dooneen.

I have tracked my love's footsteps to the boathouse of old
And the dance on the hillside where love stories are told,
Its there you will see both the lad and the colleen
Moving round by the shore of the cliffs of Dooneen

Take a view across the Shannon some sites you will see there
High rocky mountains on the south coast of Clare
The towns of Kilrush and Kilkee ever green
But theres none to compare with the cliffs of Dooneen

Farewell Dooneen, Farewell for a while,
And to those kind-Hearted neighbours that I left in the isle,
May my soul never rest till it's laid on the green
Near the old rocky slopes by the Cliffs of Dooneen


Jack McAuliffe
check out Dooneen.com for photo of Kilkee from North Kerry