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Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions

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Once Famous 28 Apr 06 - 04:45 PM
Joe Offer 28 Apr 06 - 04:54 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 28 Apr 06 - 05:09 PM
Wesley S 28 Apr 06 - 05:15 PM
Richard Brandenburg 28 Apr 06 - 05:18 PM
Once Famous 28 Apr 06 - 05:19 PM
Francy 28 Apr 06 - 05:49 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 28 Apr 06 - 06:18 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 28 Apr 06 - 06:44 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 28 Apr 06 - 08:31 PM
GUEST,TJ 28 Apr 06 - 09:25 PM
Richard Brandenburg 28 Apr 06 - 11:36 PM
GUEST,Art Thieme 28 Apr 06 - 11:36 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 28 Apr 06 - 11:50 PM
PoppaGator 29 Apr 06 - 10:48 AM
dick greenhaus 29 Apr 06 - 10:53 AM
CapriUni 29 Apr 06 - 11:03 AM
Ernest 29 Apr 06 - 11:06 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 29 Apr 06 - 11:59 AM
frogprince 29 Apr 06 - 05:18 PM
Once Famous 29 Apr 06 - 05:54 PM
GUEST,Wesley S 29 Apr 06 - 06:49 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 29 Apr 06 - 07:49 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 29 Apr 06 - 08:02 PM
Pauline L 29 Apr 06 - 08:53 PM
GUEST,bflat 29 Apr 06 - 09:10 PM
Once Famous 29 Apr 06 - 09:57 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 30 Apr 06 - 11:56 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 30 Apr 06 - 12:32 PM
Once Famous 30 Apr 06 - 12:40 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 30 Apr 06 - 01:02 PM
Big Al Whittle 30 Apr 06 - 01:16 PM
Once Famous 30 Apr 06 - 01:19 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 30 Apr 06 - 01:23 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 30 Apr 06 - 01:36 PM
Once Famous 30 Apr 06 - 04:10 PM
GUEST 01 May 06 - 01:00 AM
Stewie 01 May 06 - 03:09 AM
GUEST,Patrick Costello 01 May 06 - 06:32 AM
Once Famous 01 May 06 - 07:50 AM
GUEST 01 May 06 - 09:34 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 01 May 06 - 10:12 AM
M.Ted 01 May 06 - 12:21 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 01 May 06 - 12:36 PM
GUEST,Art Thieme 01 May 06 - 05:20 PM
Brakn 01 May 06 - 05:27 PM
Once Famous 01 May 06 - 09:33 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 02 May 06 - 11:09 AM
GUEST,Guest, bored by pointless rants... 02 May 06 - 12:01 PM
GUEST,Guest, second that. 02 May 06 - 12:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 04:45 PM

I agree with ron and even Frank Hamilton.

what I want to see Bruce accomplish is the sheer joy of the music, completely with zero politics to it.

Seeger's politics got in the way of his musicianship. Bruce is also political, but it seems like no one has ever held that against him.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 04:54 PM

I like the CD. It seems like Springsteen and his people had a lot of fun with the music; and the CD is fun to listen to, and fun to sing along with. The video partion of the disc is good, too.

I have to say that I was hoping for more than just "fun." In the past, Springsteen has done some very thoughtful interpretations of traditional and "folk scare" songs, especially on the Folkways: A Vision Shared album. His own stuff on his Nebraska album is very good, too. So, I don't blame Springsteen for having fun on this CD, but I was really hoping to hear his serious side, too.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 05:09 PM

I think there are some very serious songs on here as well such as We Shall Overcome, Jacobs Ladder and Mrs. McGrath (which could be interpreted as a political song.)   I have used the word "fun" in my comments, and that is my reaction, but I do think this is a serious work of art too.

As for politics, let the music speak for itself! You don't have to preach to make a point.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Wesley S
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 05:15 PM

I don't know if it was said before in this thread - but to my way of thinking this CD wasn't made for any of us. It's real value is that a lot of folks who would never think of buying a "folk" recording will get this - and then go looking for the source material. The same way some of us heard Peter Paul and Mary singing "If I Had My Way" and then discovered Rev Gary Davis.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Richard Brandenburg
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 05:18 PM

I have a feeling that some kid will soon show up at a jam somewhere, and sing "My Oklahoma Home" learned obviously from this new Bruce version. And that's where some of the ideas being discussed here will play themselves out. After the "O Brother Where Art Thou" wave, there were singers showing up places who had either learned the song from the the soundtrack recording or from the "source" recording, and it was clear that the commercial popularity of the soundtrack had created a new interest in the songs themselves. If Bruce can help direct more singers to traditional and folk material as a meaningful social event, that's great.   

My point being that what we think about the process is one thing, and the activity of the process is something else - and where the music really lives.

There are a few of Pete's Rainbow Quest videos on YouTube, (www.youtube.com) and on one of the shows, just before someone's performance, he turns to the camera and says something like, "You people at home can sing right along with us! We're here on TV, but these songs are for everybody to sing, and if we can do it, why, you can do it too!" By breaking the fourth wall in addressing the camera and talking to the audience, Pete subtracted even the glamourizing event of the television show from the music-making process.   

Apart from his overt organizing work around particular causes, Pete's relentless democratization of the singing process is where I think his "political" message has had the most traction, and where he was most effectively "subversive". His concerts have always been sing-alongs, and one of his great gifts, I would say, is not his banjo or guitar playing; it's that he applied his earnest vision of folk music in such a way that a hall full of us were throwing back our heads, with smiles on our faces, singing, "Bye bye, Rosieanna" - helping us to feel for a moment unashamed and un-selfconscious. Anybody that can do that with a room full of us white people has subverted something somewhere...

Bruce can be a similar sort of galvanizer, in his own way, and I'm glad that this is what he's doing with his current work. Look forward to hearing it.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 05:19 PM

Only a handful really did that. the rest are content with Peter, Paul, and Mary and do not need all the funk that goes with the original.

smooth harmonies and fine musicianship trumps that.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Francy
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 05:49 PM

I'm sorry; but considering this a work of art? Come on....It is pure Springsteen and the words & "original" music come second......He'll be successful with this cd and his ego will get a boost.....But please, don't use the word art on this CD I have listened to it a half a dozoen times already and wouldn't recommend this to any one who loves folk music.....this is for springsteen rockers and that's it....If I hadn't heard Mrs McGrath by Pete and others many, many times, I would never understand the lyrics and meaning of this song from the springsteen cut. Frank of Toledo


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 06:18 PM

How has Springsteen contributed to remembering or tribute to

democratization of the singing process

a great line!

I dont think so
Francy right on the mark- way too performance
not enough democratization of the process.

Yes still folk maybe.....

For Seeger the process was so important and it needs a tribute record.
The way of delivery. Yes constantly evolving songs but no stage. And I don't care if it was recorded in a farmhouse room it does not sound like pete seeger around any fireplace.....way too over produced to be a tribute to the democratization of the process.

great term...

Would write more but Carlo rossi is waiting for me on the front porch in the bright sun of a setting wondrous not too hot or wet spring day.

Let us have a toast to Springsteen for doing something and to the person who does a proper tribute to the seeger process someday too!
And may that process steer clear of the shoals of commercialism, age set marketing and political stigmas.....put your car in the folk drive and roll..

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 06:44 PM

"Let us have a toast to Springsteen for doing something and to the person who does a proper tribute to the seeger process someday too!"

I'm sorry you don't see it, but Springsteen DID come up with the proper tribute to the Seeger PROCESS in this album. Listen to what Pete talk and then it should become clear.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 08:31 PM

in terms of process you are comparing apples and oranges- there is nothing inviting or natural or at home to the blaring of springsteens style. I don't think I ever heard Pete Seeger come across so loud-so over powering so in your face. So performance! I just heard Jacobs Ladder- yes sound technicians can do almost anything from a farmhouse room but it sounded like a 100 piece gospel choir and 50 musicians- nothing like the nurturing sound of an even high energy seeger performance. We need both but the music really does need to get infused with the lifeway not just with a stage and a cd.

CB


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: GUEST,TJ
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 09:25 PM

Again: millions of people -- many of them a lot younger than what I'm guessing is the average age of folks here -- who would not have otherwise done so will now discover these old songs, and by extension become aware of who Pete Seeger is.

To me, that's a very good thing.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Richard Brandenburg
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 11:36 PM

Which was my point, too, GUEST, TJ. He's not doing what Seeger does, clearly; he's a big old rock star. If Springsteen tried to adapt his act to some Pete-like populist thing, he'd have a distinct difficulty in getting us to suspend our disbelief. It remains for some other, more folk-based performer to "infuse the music with the lifeway", to paraphrase #1 PEASANT.

But then it calls to mind the noble experiment that Billy Bragg and Wilco tried in the "Mermaid Avenue" recordings of Woody Guthrie's lyrics set to contempo-sounding music. Bragg, at least, is arguably closer to the notion of the Woody-like singer than Bruce is to Pete... but I find it unlistenable, and sure don't hear Woody in there. I hear his words under a post-modern blanket of other folks sounds and ways of singing.

Or Ani De Franco hanging out with Utah Phillips; same deal, diferent disc. Give me Utah Phillips straight, please.

At any rate, who could convey Pete's "lifeway"; his earnestness, and his way of being in the music, who didn't come from Pete's context? Not Bruce. I'm not sure that was his job in the project.

But if it points a few people toward Pete, and Pete's sources, then good.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 11:36 PM

Frank, You are totally correct. Dizzy hit the nail on the head! And "No Pete, no me!" is my story all the way.

Ron, To my way of seeing this, to say that Pete was a a "political singer" is so far off the damn mark that it comes perilously close to being completely misleading in that it mis-educates all the generations out there that have no clue about what went down.

Pete was a social singer! ---------------- The positions taken were about inclusion, not exclusion. They pushed for the betterment of the human condition. Pie in the sky was none of it. It was here-and-now sharing the proceeds, and opening eyes to the light of rhetorical enlightenments that said, "Yes, if we can just get together, we can show the truth of it!" Political compromises and smoke-filled-rooms, with bribes paid and debts owed and redeemed, had little to do with it. It was simply wrong to keep someone in virtual chains because their skin was a different color. 'WE Shall Overcome' wasn't just a song. It was what happened.

It was a clear case of what Pete felt was right and wrong. It was ethics to the enth degree. You couldn't hear the messages in his songs and not say to yourself, deep inside, those are pretty much true things that the man is saying. Those are rules of the road-less-traveled that I can live by! And, by God, or whatever, I will strive to incorporate some of those humane ways of seeing this world we are in even if they are, right at this moment, only ideals, and sometimes not seen as terribly practical. -- In time, they may become parts of hearts and minds---and we will be better for it!

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 11:50 PM

Art, I never said that Pete wasn't political, but rather that was not the point Springsteen was making with this CD.   Yes, Pete was a SOCIAL singer, and if ANYONE thinks that Pete was not trying to teach people that singing is a joy then they are wrong. No one is denying his politics or his social causes, but I think many have forgotten his work in perpetuating folk music and the tradition of singing.

As I said in the very first post, I knew that the "folk elders" among us would have problems with this recording. There is nothing wrong with that. Not everyone will get it.   The one person whose opinion really counts is Pete's, and it is my understanding that he enjoys what Springsteen did.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 10:48 AM

When Springsteen recorded this album, it was strictly a studio effort; the musicians he assembled were never intended to stick together for a tour, or even for a single live performance.

Since then, when a grant from Shell Oil made it possible for the New Orleans Jazz and Heritiage Foundation to present their festival in 2006 despite the effects of Hurricane Katrina and the subsequent levee failures ~ and since Bruce accepted an invitation to perform ~ the Seeger Sessions Band was reassembled and rehearsed for a one-time appearance, closing out the big stage tomorrow afternoon (Sunday 4/30/06, 5:30 to 7 pm).

I've been holding off on purchasing the album, so that the first time I hear this material will be live and in person. Can't wait!

As far as all the above controversy is concerned, I find many of the negative feelings that have been expressed to be sadly shallow ~ most notably, the sneering condemnation of Bruce's effort as "pure performance," as though competant presentation of music were somehow disreputable. For my taste, a piece of music is memorable only when it is both deeply and genuinely felt and skillfully performed. So far, Mr. Springsteen has rarely disappointed me or fallen short of my standards, and I certainly expect this newest project to meet and exceed the quality of everything he has done so far.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 10:53 AM

"the one person whose opinion really counts is Pete's"
Huh?
The function of a pop singer, whether he be Springsteen or Seeger, is o be popular.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: CapriUni
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 11:03 AM

Hmmm... I may have to get this set, and introduce my aide, Audrey, to it.

On a recent trip from Virginia to New York, we were listening to the music she's collected on her ipod. There was a wide range -- all styles of rock, classical, jazz, spoken word, and yes, folk... But it was more of that "hokie folkie," to my ear, at least. She only recently discovered a version of "Froggie went a-courtin'" from a library CD of 18th C. music, and likes the song, but not the fluty voice of the female singer. I think I can be fairly confident that she wouldn't have that problem with Springsteen.

I think she'd really like this one (and I would, too).

Also, as she and her family are on the other end of the spectrum, politically, from Seeger, I have a feeling she's not as familiar with his music as I am. Yes, Seeger's main message is the joy of music (anyone who's seen his performance of Abiyoyo knows that), but politcal labels sometimes get in the way...


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Ernest
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 11:06 AM

PoppaGator, I envy you ;0)

Please tell us about the concert!

Best wishes
Ernest


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 11:59 AM

Dick, I certainly realize that. The question is that this CD is a tribute of sorts to Seeger and his music. If Seeger is happy with the way his music was treated, that is the opinion that counts.

By the way, there will be a netcast of the New Orleans Jazz festival tomorrow afternoon. Go the the NO Jazz fest website for information.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: frogprince
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 05:18 PM

Just heard a couple of cuts for the first time today; sounded like "folk" having a rousing good time playing and singing the music. I think the disk goes on my shopping list.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 05:54 PM

As I have been reading this, the same holier than thou attitude of the so-called purists rears it's snobby head once again, whether it is Bruce Springsteen or The Kingston Trio.

It is what has divided the so-called folk music community 50 years ago and still today.

Purists! Our folk music is not about braying or having no teeth in your mouth. It is about the music and the passion of it. And it can sound much better on a $4000 guitar whether you like it or not!

And if people sell a million copies of their type of folk music, my hat is off to them, for they are truly successful folk singers who people want to hear.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 06:49 PM

PappaGator - I'll be watching for a review also - I'm sure Bruce will put on a great show. Have a good time and report back please.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 07:49 PM

New Orleans needs grants for food, home and future not for musicians....anyone performing there on a grant shoud be ashamed!
Totally!

Musicians have the songs- festivals dont need money they just need gatherings of people and song. I think in that regard NO can take care of itself.

Rip those grants out of music and put them into food on the table and homes for people to live in.

Waht a disgrace!
Typical of the so called folk and so called music community! They aren't either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This shoud be the biggest wake up call to end commercialism in music that I can think of. Take all who have taken and line them up to be shot. Even the sound crews and port a potties people. There are no fast bucks in New orleans and should not ever be. And if it is only for the money then it really shoundn't be.

I am really sooooooo....tired of musicians being like coin operated parking meters....no money no song...that is what is totally wrong.


Cb


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 08:02 PM

Sure, lets forget about the millions of dollars that will be coming into New Orleans due to these musicians performing there. Let sforget about all the fund raising they have done and the good they have done. Just because they take a paycheck they are criminals? To be shot?? Give me a break.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Pauline L
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 08:53 PM

Every piece of every performing art is created many times, first by the writer/composer and, again, each time the work is performed. Ansel Adams was a great pianist before he became a great photographer. When he wrote about photography, he often made analogies with music. In his will, he bequeathed many of his photos and negatives to the University of New Mexico with the stipulation that graduate students in photography use his negatives to make their own prints. He said that making a negative is like writing a score, and making a print is like performing the music. Knowing how the negative looks like will tell you a lot about how the print will look, but Ansel Adams believed in artistic creation in print-making. How much more so in music!

...you can never really plumb the entire truth of ideas in music.   That in essence is the power of music -- the fact that the art form is larger, deeper, and far more varied than any single person can divine in one lifetime -- and realizing it should give pause to any artist who starts to consider himself all-knowing. We are all simply steps in a continuing age-old tradition. When we do something that enhances that tradition, that makes it richer, purer, clearer -- then we have done what we were put here for. These are the words of Isaac Stern, one of the leading classical violinists of the twentieth century. If this is true of classical music, with its annotated, written scores, it must be so much more true of music in the folk tradition.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: GUEST,bflat
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 09:10 PM

The music is wonderful. I appreciate that Springsteen saw the value in it to challenge his traditional audience to hear what many call traditional music. I like it and wish him great success. Perhaps others will cross over to this rich and deep genre. I heard the interview by Ms.Block on NPR on 4/26 and you can too by going to the NPR.org website.

Ellen


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 09:57 PM

#1 Peasant

You play the lute, don't you? Have a jester cap also?


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 11:56 AM

Must seriously disagree Ron....

if you take a paycheck it is not a benefit.

you can take a paycheck for a performance or concert

but one would hope a musicians life is not entirely dedicated to these.

the trouble is that when one asks others for money and you do not give yourself something is seriously wrong- one of the problems that we face as a country is the inability to just put our own individual needs and interests asside and go raise a barn together or help someone out. Now if everyone involved in putting on an event donated their goods and services then it would be a benefit.

If you need money then all you have created is a feel good RIP OFF!

Actually I think that the word benefit should be officially defined and a penalty assessed for improper use. When I put cares behind and open my wallet wider than it should be for a benefit I need it to be a total benefit. I am not discounting performance but it is way easier for a performer to perform for free than for others to sacrifice. When I pay for that ticket money comes out of the bank. When a singer sings its just sound waves!

CB


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 12:32 PM

Who ever said that the festival was a benefit? It never has been nor will it ever be. The event does however provide a lot to the economy of the region.

Yes, New Orleans will BENEFIT from the festival being held but this event is not a fundraiser. Many, if not all, of the musicians have previously participated in some sort of charity for the community. This years festival is also giving many New Orleans based musicians an opportunity to make a living. The festival organizers increased the number of locals into the lineup this year.

The "grant" that you mentioned and was mentioned earlier was basically a loan from Shell Oil that enabled the festival organizers to continue the event this year. The damage that occured seriously effected their site and operations as well and Shell Oil gave the money in exchange to have their name included in the festival.

You made a lot of assumptions about the character of the performers and organizers that is not based on any facts that I am aware of. You are certainly entitled to an opinion, even though we have gone off on a tangent from what this thread was initially about.

Everyone is entitled to make a living and earn what the market bears. Everyone should feel a sense of moral responsibility to others as well. Charity and career can only be judged when one impedes on the other.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 12:40 PM

Art in any form does and will command great prices.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 01:02 PM

Must have gotten the concept of benefit from something Carlo Rossie whispered into my ear....my mistake....

However.....I still maintain that benefits should be entirely so.
I am also tired of festivals not being festivals. One finds armys of volunteers and grants but the requirement to volunteer is not as it should be extended to everyone. Perhaps we would require fewer grants if this was the case and anyway why do festivals need grants more than the people.

They need the grant money as well as the proceeds money.

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 01:16 PM

I agree with every word Martin. wonder what peasant does for a living, and how he would feel if someone insisted he did it for nothing.

just weight it against the number of musicians you know without a pot to piss in. these are the people who will cry themselves to sleep about the injustices visited on Robert Johnson, Bix Beiderbeck and all the cannon of musician saints - and can'r see that the same stuff applies today.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 01:19 PM

Thanks, weelittledrummer.

The purist holier than thou fingerpointing is as I have said decisive and has not served the music or the artists who make it very well at all.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 01:23 PM

I agree with you Martin. The separatist movement in folk music needs to stop. That doesn't mean people need to embrace EVERYTHING, but all this negative attitude seems to go against what I thought was one of the canons of the style - inclusiveness.   I thought we learned about our culture, our history and our evolution by listening to folk music. As I've said over and over, it is a living tradition and we should not neglect either the past or the present.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 01:36 PM

No one will ever know what came first "Music" or "a living"

One thing is certain- you can be good at music no matter what else you do.

They are totally independent

When music is your life and part of that life always then it is living.

Songs live when they are sung as life extracting a living by using them is just a bonus.

Getting a song on a stage and into ears is easy. Getting them into life perhaps sung by those making a living elsewhere is a steeper path. It requires a different bedside/hearthside/homeside manner.

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 04:10 PM

Well, maybe it's that way in the world according to #1 Peasant.

Your statement is so full of pompous holes. There are plenty of people who have music in their life or part of their life and it is not a living by any means.

Extracting a living (as you call it) for a living is quite frankly a gift or a blessing. And it doesn't require anything like you say. all it requires is pure passion and someone appreciative.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 06 - 01:00 AM

Gib.Mart. Your braying betrays you. You certainly exhibit all the actual traits that you accuse others of in this and so many other threads. The pompous holes you speak of are your own--mainly your mouth. Pomposity in defense of slick and sappy pap is merely yet another transparent word ploy from your bag of shticks as you strive to make high art of those who watered down traditional art and turned it into elevator music. Like alchemy, it can't be done.

It is you who are the holier than thou finger pointer--not the so-called purists you obviously detest and unfairly denigrate.
We don't need or want you in our corner. Our music can speak for itself. Friends like you---we simply don't need.

The Kingston Trio


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Stewie
Date: 01 May 06 - 03:09 AM

I agree with Joe. It's a fun record. I got my copy earlier today and I think it's great - first-rate musicians having a great time with traditional material. They are not Seeger's songs: they are folk songs and Springsteen can do what he likes with them. For me, it brings to mind the Belfast skiffle sessions where Van Morrison, Lonnie Donnegan, Chris Barber, Dr John etc were having a great time with similar material - but this is on an even bigger scale. The horn section is beaut!

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: GUEST,Patrick Costello
Date: 01 May 06 - 06:32 AM

On one hand I don't like anything about the album. The performances are okay I guess, but there is a weird vibe to the project that kind of creeps me out. It feels like a sweater with three sleeves.

On the other hand, there has been a flood of orders for banjo & guitar instructional material here at the office since the hype started about the record so it's obvious that, for the time being at least, the folk music industry is going to get a little bit of a boost.

As much as I hate the record, it's making me money right now.
Oh well.

-Patrick
http://howandtao.com


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 May 06 - 07:50 AM

Guest, you talk out of your ass, like most Guests do.

Especially cowardly ones like yourself. I obviously struck a nerve. I assure you that you did not.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 06 - 09:34 AM

Martin,

With all due respect, of which you have some, but very little: Of course you struck a nerve. Did 9/11 strike a nerve? Did Napoleon strike a nerve when he took on Russia? This is ostensibly a folk music forum--not a misinfmation and propaganda forum for New Think and dumbed down, watered down takes on this music which has an honored and respected history.

Sir, your "M.G.'" personna, which is no more telling than the maligned-by-you appelation "Guest" needs to be 'moderated' on this good forum. Also, your wrongness needs to be exposed to the unsuspecting, more easily molded ones of us much like Ed Murrow did in times past.

The King's Own Trio

Good sir, and I am sure you are that to some you love,


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 May 06 - 10:12 AM

There is no need for anyone to turn this into a typical BS thread. The name calling should stop. We are all losing sight of the topic of this thread.

"dumbed down, watered down takes on this music which has an honored and respected history."

That is a matter of opinion. I do not consider what Springsteen did to these songs anything different than what Pete Seeger did to them.   No one "owns" them, but everyone "owns" them. 100 years ago it would not have been as common to see a guitar in use. At one point the violin was an instrument of the court. Banjos were developed from an African instrument. Many of us on this forum probably developed our love during the folk revival of the 50's and 60's. Much of that revival was built on a commercial interest in folk music that traced its roots back to the work of the "purists".

What do we consider "purist" these days? I would bet each one of us has our own definition.   Earlier in this tread someone mentioned Woody Guthrie. By most musiciologists definition, he was far from a folk singer. Yet he is a name that many of us think synonomous with folk music.

When I first started doing a radio show back in 1980, I had the honor of meeting Pete Seeger for the first time. When I mentioned I was doing a folk radio show, he told me that folk music is something that a mother sings to a child and can't be played on the radio. It took a while to sink in, but I saw his point. As soon as a microphone was introduced, the music ceased to be "folk" music. The microphone added a level of performance that altered the music from its original intent. The work of all the collectors and archivists merely resulted in a copy of the music - not a true reproduction.   Sort of like a photograph. It captures a moment, but does it truly give a full impression of that lost moment in time? Can you feel the breeze, know the warmth of the sun, smell the flower, etc? We can use our imagination to fill in the blanks, but we cannot recreate that moment.

So what does that mean? Should I stop doing radio? Should Dick Greenhaus stop selling CD's? Should performers quit recording and start turning down gigs? Should we close the festivals? Should Mudcat shut off its servers?

No.

Each of us are drawn to this music because of a love. We can make our own music, or share the music of others. There is nothing wrong with a folk revival that truly respects and shares. Modern technology has altered the oral tradition and it is now easier to trace the DNA of songs. There is nothing wrong with enjoying music, no matter what we call it or no matter what it sounds like.

We are too reliant on labels. Folk, acoustic, singer-songwriter, etc. - we are in danger of losing the essence of what makes the song important to US. We spend our time arguing why the other guys music is not "folk" and we end up in small enclaves that no longer share or invite others to join in.   That is where I draw the line for my tastes.   I may not like everything that I hear, but I won't spend time knocking another person for enjoying music.   I don't care what they will call it - there will always be room for my tastes.

Enough of my rambling.   Listen and judge for youself. If you don't like, fine. If you enjoy it - have fun!


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: M.Ted
Date: 01 May 06 - 12:21 PM

Our own Conrad Bladey, Peasant #1 has his own world view. Sometimes it is a bit hard to understand where someone is coming from by merely reading a post--The old story about a picture being worth a thousand words was never more true than when applied to him--

Here's a nice picture of Conrad and Here are some pics of Conrad and his cars

I wonder what Martin looks like.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 01 May 06 - 12:36 PM

Thanks! But if you really want the photos....try this link.
Just updated(the first one was of me in Louisville Ky- great place-will go there again for the artcar show first weekend in August....

Try these-

http://hutmanspeasantworld.blogspot.com/

The Peasant Photos

To late- 12:36 PM....at least for may day....feels like well after midnight.
must rest
Conrad


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 01 May 06 - 05:20 PM

Conrad,

Beautiful!!

All the best,

Art


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Brakn
Date: 01 May 06 - 05:27 PM

I just hope that music fans don't read this "thread".


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 May 06 - 09:33 PM

Guest, your pathetic and pompous and snobby lectures generate zero to me and anywhere else I am sure. Accusations of dumbing down is the key to your holier than thou attitude.

folk music that is interpreted and made money off of in an honest way is still folk music. It is not a religion and it is not so sacred to not be interpreted and have money made off of it.

That's what singers are entitled to do.

Sheesh, I am really sick of the purist attitude. Makes me want to tie you to a chair and force Kingston Trio music down your throats until you scream for mercy.


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 02 May 06 - 11:09 AM

True!

Folk music is a spectrum of things-and multidimensional.

You can make money..............make no money


adapt music.................hold it constant


record it..............keep it oral traditio


keep it cultural and controled..........give others access

Teach it/learn it...................read music only

Perform it.......................live it

Some sort of arbitrary quality..........no concern for quality just
                                        presence of the music....

And all with the same basic material- the same cultural artifacts. The songs the tunes the lyrics

It is all folk music....

What I like to see is balance.

Today from where I sit drinking a fine glass of carlo rossi under the shade tree here in baltimore....is that the field is not balanced. Too many believe music has to be professionalized. Sort of like the article about bars in todays baltimore sun which everyone should read (then cry)-it is on line- of one bar owner saying that he thinks lining up for $4.00 beers is silly and his price of $2.00 (though over priced imho and I can prove it...) is sufficient...maybe he said....he would get more business coming in if he raised the price to the trendy level.

You can play music and it does not cost you anything that is a fact.

There should be as many venues where it costs to listen as there are where it is free to listen- balance.

The only catch is perhaps accessibility. I believe in access for all but once it starts costing then access is resticted. Festivals should be open free and provide access especially if they utilize grant funding. If you make money make it on the peripherals. Open free access, bring in your food or get it at very reasonable prices so you can afford to stay for the day.

The only way I got firmly into folk music was via local festivals such as glen echo where entrance was by donation. They got me and a bunch of friends in the gate. I adopted the music and each year instead of going for free I gave a larger donation.....Last time I went I think I put a $20 into the pot. If something is meaningful the money will come.

Always a role for the recorded, performance or professional musician. The harpers of yor, then the dance masters....If we have enough people singing as a lifeway and finding music as a part of their lives rather than as some form of rental or pay per view....then we will have success.

Is there balance in your local folk community?

The real tribute to the music is to bring back the other end of the spectrum. Balance it against all of the commerce.

I am not a purist....but a spectrumist!

Quiet...I hear carlo rossi calling....must walk but not run out to the shade tree....~!#$!#@!#its already 11:09!

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: GUEST,Guest, bored by pointless rants...
Date: 02 May 06 - 12:01 PM

Anyone else feel like an otherwise interesting thread was derailed by a drunk?

Hey Conrad... don't drink & post, ok?


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Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: GUEST,Guest, second that.
Date: 02 May 06 - 12:03 PM

Yeah, it became all about Peasant a while ago.


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