BS: Gun Sales Are Up

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: goatfell
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 06:47 AM

aye watch yerself Barrick

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: kendall
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 07:47 AM

They mentioned this on national news yesterday; and they showed a young man buying an assault rifle at a price of $1000.00. Ignorance breeds fear, fear breeds violence. And the NRA keeps raking in the dough from their fear mongering.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 08:41 AM

True, but the Democratic Party raked in a lot more dough.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 01:10 PM

Those are two different issues. The Democrats raised more money for their Presidental candidate. The NRA raises money to influence congress. Apples and oranges.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 01:38 PM

Still, it's all about fear!

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: gnu
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 01:55 PM

Hmmmm... my last post was NOT meant as an approval of individual citizens buying HD hardware. Assault rifles and other HD hardware... ban em!

I realize it is hard for me to argue that was not my intent. I apologize.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 02:03 PM

No it's not about fear to elect Obama as president. It's about hope. At least it was for the majority of Americans that voted for him. The folks who voted out of fear lost the election. Plain and simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 03:45 PM

The combination of this thread, and this one:
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=116184&messages=6
scares me.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 05:38 PM

Maybe their fears are ungrounded, and Obama will be happy to let them own whatever firearms they want.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 05:43 PM

As I've said before, Obama is going to have far, far more to deal with right away than issues like gay marriage, gun control, and abortion. These, while worthy (I guess), become peripheral when folks see their savings vanish with their job, pension, and home.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 05:52 PM

I will re-post this as it appears that some folks would rather post foolish speculation, based on their own biases, than comment on fact. READ THE DAMN THING, and then comment. There is plenty more out there on his position with regard to 2nd Amendment rights. He believes the DC decision was correct, he believes folks have the right to keep and bear arms, and most importantly, he understands that the bridge that must be built is between folks for whom guns represent drive by shootings and dead children; and folks for whom guns are part of their heritage and lifestyle.

Here it is:

From the Democratic Debate on January 15, 2008, moderated by Tim Russert.

RUSSERT: Senator Obama, when you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?

OBAMA: I don't think that we can get that done. But what I do think we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. One good example -- this is consistently blocked -- the efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers.

That's not something that the NRA has allowed to get through Congress. And, as president, I intend to make it happen.

But here's the broader context that I think is important for us to remember. We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You've got the tradition of lawful gun ownership, that all of us saw, as we travel around rural parts of the country.

And it is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot.

And then you've got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago.

We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets.

Despite what some of you seem to think, there will be no movement to ban guns. One of the things O'bama (still can't help meself) successfully did was to not allow wedge issues to be used any longer. He, and most leading Dems, understand at long last that by using the issue of inner city crime as a reason for banning all guns simply drives off the most important part of the base in the Democratic Party, that being middle class folks. Someone above made the erroneous statement that the majority of folks in this country would support a gun ban, or something like that. In fact, most Americans are firmly in support of the right to keep and bear arms. Our President (elect) understands this. He understands we must deal with the problem of violence in poor urban areas, and that we must respect the rights of average citizens. Solve hopelessness and you will end most crime in urban environments. My guess is he will focus in economic areas almost exclusively, and we will see little attention paid to this, in spite of what the wackos believe.


Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 06:01 PM

Dead on target, Mick. 10-ring, bullseye.

Exactly what I've been trying to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 06:14 PM

I wonder what the guys buying the guns are reading. It could be they believed Obama when he said he would opt for public financing of his campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 05:52 PM

Rig-
Why are you still bitching about that? It cost the American taxpayer a lot more so sponsor McCain's loss than Obama's win.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 05:57 PM

I'm not bitching, and if you consider Obama supporters to be tax payers, it didn't, but we're trying to determine why people are suddenly buying guns, in spite of the reality that it's helping the economny.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 06:17 PM

1. Because of the mistaken notion that the Obama administration will immediately renew the "assault rifle" ban.

2. Because some of them feel they're going to need them to hunt food with.

3. Because of deliberate misinformation spread during the campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 06:37 PM

Well, after all, Bush told the American people to "Go shopping" as a way to help the economy. He didn't tell them what to buy.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Amos
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 08:22 PM

Illinois: Suits Charge Violence by Police


By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: November 14, 2008
A lawsuit asserts that some white Chicago police officers committed hate crimes against a black family cheering Barack Obama's victory last week at their home on the city's West Side. The suit says several officers discharged pepper spray near members of the family celebrating outside. After some of the family members fled into the home, the officers battered down the front door, and shouted racial insults before leaving, according to the suit. The eight plaintiffs are seeking $50,000 in damages.

Another suit filed last week says a black couple, Christina Ballard and Cornelius Voss, were driving home in Chicago with family members on election night when white officers drove alongside their vehicle. That lawsuit says that after some of the children cheered for Mr. Obama through the open car windows, the officers discharged pepper spray and yelled "white power" and a racial slur. A police spokeswoman, Monique Bond, said the accusations would be investigated.

---

These offenses are committed by people with the same rationale of fear and hatred, solved by violence never-ending.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 09:41 PM

They should be investigated and, if guilty, the officers appropriately disciplined.

One of the people I supported for County Commissioner wasn't elected, but I'm not getting all bent out of shape about it. Why, I haven't even bought an 81mm mortar or yelled about it or anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 10:33 PM

Maybe the real reason gun sales are up is that all the racist bigot assholes are planning to protest Obama's election by staging simultaneous mass suicides.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 10:53 PM

Doubtful, those kinds of folks usually take bad news out on somebody else.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 10:25 PM

"...the officers discharged pepper spray and yelled "white power" and a racial slur."


                Even if they were radical racists, it seems funny they'd do that in uniform. I thought that's what the white sheets were all about.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 08:14 PM

Went to the range today. Didn't see anybody with an AR-type of weapon, just some old dudes chronographing handloads and a family using a .22 to shoot paper. I shot paper, sighting in my .30-30; if it had been a match I would have scored 130/150, 2X, which ain't too shabby for a guy who's 63, wears glasses and hearing aids, and has diabetes and mild COPD.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 10:01 PM

Rapaire - I'm not familiar with the scoring, so I'm not sure what that means. I don't know who buys all those paramilitary weapons, I never seen them around here either (Oregon), but that's what the media tell us is selling.

                   On the other hand, the media tells us a whole lot of things.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:51 PM

I fired 15 bullets; "X" is the dead center (and smallest part of) the 10-ring, which is the highest score. Therefore, most of the hits on the target were "in the black" or scoring 7 or higher; one was a 4 (because I jerked, or deliberately pulled, the trigger instead of using a firm, steady pull and yes, I know better). An "X" scores a 10, but the number of X's is counted because they're dead center on the target.

I wasn't going for scote, though: I was trying to set the sights on the rifle (I do NOT use telescopic, laser, or anything other than the old-fashioned iron sights God intended) so that they would consistently fire 1.6 inches above the X at 100 yards. Given the ballistic flight pattern of the bullet this would put the rifle dead on center at 150 yards; 200 yards is about the maximum distance for a .30-30 with iron sights if you're hunting. Yes, it will shoot accurately beyond that but I also know my own capabilities and those of the weapon.

Down at the local gun shop I've seen lots of people buying hunting rifles, but only one who ordered an "assault rifle" and he was a cop buying it for the local police department (they needed one more for a reserve). Our local cops now carry a Glock .45 pistol AND a Taser, with an M-4 carbine (a military-type weapon) in the trunk and a 12 gauge shotgun locked in the front seat near the driver. They also have available the "orange shotguns" that shoot "beanbag rounds"; standing orders are to use non-lethal weapons if at all possible, if weapons use is needed.

Each cop has to be "Tasered" before a Taser is issued to them so that they KNOW what happens. So far they have used a Taser once, when a man pulled a gun on a cop and the cop's partner responded. The Tasered chap said that he wished they'd just shot him instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 08:31 AM

Well that's pretty good shooting. I remember reading about Poncho Villa arming his men with lever action 30-30's, and they did pretty well with them. If you look up the ballistics on an AK-47 it's pretty close to a 30-30. So maybe Poncho Villa was way ahead of his time.
               Also, sometime around the turn of the last century, I read about a Turkish army that was armed with Winchesters and literally wiped out some Russian troops armed with some kind of single-shot weapons.

               The news media has turned into a circus anymore, network A trying to one-up network B until the truth is lost. It could be that people were just getting supplies for deer hunting, and the reporters didn't know the difference between a lever action 30-30 and an AK-47. It wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 09:28 AM

The 7.62 x 39 Russian cartridge used in the AK-47 is a lousy deer cartridge -- it's fully jacketed, light, and moves too fast, and will simply pass through the animal, which means that unless it hits bone or a vital organ the animal can run off for a very long distance before dying a slow, nasty death. With the .30-30 you at least have a cartridge designed for taking game -- it's slower, heavier, and "mushrooms" so that the shocking power (hydrostatic shock) is much greater. The deer is dropped quickly and as humanely as possible.

There are a lot of 7.62x39R cartridges out there because the former Eastern bloc countries are dumping their ammunition supplies in the US. They are switching to the 5.5x mm family (which is also a lousy deer cartridge), with includes the M-4, the AK-74, the various "bulldog" weapons such as the Steyr, and the M-16.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 11:41 AM

Yes, I suppose any military round would be bad for hunting, in that they are basically designed to wound.

            I always thought it ironic that the replacement arm for the AK-47 would be the AK-74. And I suspect that any time a news reporter sees one, it's an AK-47 to him, regardless.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: goatfell
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 01:04 PM

the yanks have the right to bear arms, and they also think that they have right to murder people as well.
http://ericbogle.net/lyrics/lyricspdf/keeperoftheflame.pdf.

please read the words

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 02:53 AM

You realize, don't you, that that song is satire? That the gun lover in that song is sick?

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 06:49 AM

I couldn't get it to work!

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 09:13 AM

Another day, another man for breakfast.

Guess I'll just take a shower, get dressed, and go shoot somebody. It's my duty as an American and especially as a kill-crazy, baby-killing, gun-owning, veteran of the Vietnam Era. Oh, wait. I'll have to kill six or seven people since I haven't killed anyone in the last week or so; otherwise I'll be cited for Failure To Murder Enough People.

Gotta keep the average up, you know!

Or maybe I'll just drive to work, go to the three meetings on today's agenda, go home afterwards, eat dinner, have a beer, watch a LITTLE television (History Channel, most likely), go to bed, and leave the killin' for another day.

But my average is going to drop way lower than, say, Ebbie's this year.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: goatfell
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 11:31 AM

well as far as I'm aware anyone who owns a gun must be sick, or else why have a thing that can kill, I mean what other reason is there to own a gun but to kill.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 11:35 AM

let me see... How many cars are there, and how many people killed each year in accidents?

Compare this to the number of guns and the number killed by guns ( by accident AND purposely) and tell me why we should allow private ownership of cars- We could all take streetcars, or trains, after all.

Besides, there is NO Constitutional right to have or drive a car.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 11:40 AM

http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Larish1.html

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 12:04 PM

No reason to own a knife, either. They're only used for cutting and slashing and stabbing -- anyone who owns a knife must be sick and/or be trying to compensate for a perceived phallic deficiency.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 12:10 PM

Rig, I had to type in that url. It's a PDF.

Rapaire, vas?

Tom, are you a vegetarian? If you are not, somebody is shooting and stabbing in your name.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 09:10 PM

Okay, I found it--thank's Ebbie. I think he misspelled Kalashnikov, but that might have been poetic license.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 08:08 AM

well as far as I'm aware anyone who owns a gun must be sick, or else why have a thing that can kill, I mean what other reason is there to own a gun but to kill.

You're right. Ultimately, the only reason to own a gun is to kill. Why is that sick? I own guns though I don't hunt and seldom even shoot at targets. I live in the country where encounters with potentially dangerous animals are pretty common. Over the years I've shot venomous snakes that have taken up residence in my fish pond, feral animals that were attacking my own pets or livestock, and animals that have been severely injured by hunters, cars, or fights with other animals. Are those sick behaviors?

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: goatfell
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 09:54 AM

I am not a vegetarian, and I could go on with this argument, saying that I eat meat, things that were once alive and being killed, but so can a vegetarian say the same thing as well because vegitables and fruit grow and in order to grow, they must be alive if not then it's a mircle that you plant them in the ground one day, and the next day they become fully grown veitables and fruit, without growning or living.

by god that is a mircle, so that these vegetarians someone is stabbig and killing in your name too.

but as I say I don't want to get into this sstypid argument, because you never win do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 02:34 PM

You know, Goatfell, you're one of the few people here who have recognized that vegetarians, like meat-eaters, eat formerly living things.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: goatfell
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 08:07 AM

thank you,

but try telling that to them

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 11:33 PM

Unfortunately, vegetables are too dignified to moo, bleat, growl, or cluck, so their sacrafice often goes unnoticed.

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: goatfell
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 06:53 AM

but they are alive when they are growing, anyway you eat what you want to and I'll eat what I want to

Subject: RE: BS: Gun Sales Are Up
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 08:46 PM

This, from a Tucson Television Station:

Gun sales skyrocket after election
Posted: Nov 21, 2008 04:20 PM PST
Gun sales skyrocket after election


Ever since the presidential election gun sales have been going through the roof nationwide and here in Tucson. Some owners fear the new administration will tighten gun rules and laws.

"It's a second amendment right to keep and bear arms. I think everyone that's legal should be able to protect their homes, protect themselves," says gun owner Andy Partney.

Robert Ward II has been hunting since he was a young boy.

"It's going to get to the point where just the cops have guns and the criminal have guns because you can always get guns on the black market," says Ward. "Basically I just went and bought a new firearm here a few weeks back it was kind of an impulse buy."

Although President elect Obama hasn't outlined any changes in the gun laws but Tucsonans aren't taking any chances. They're flocking to gun stores across town.

Second Amendment Sports says they've actually sold out of a number of their high powered weapons.

"We don't have a single AR left, we're very low on AK's, a lot of our high capacity hand guns, we're out," says Matt Janes.

For now, the future is uncertain and gun owners hope the currents are enforced.

"People like me that don't have a criminal history or don't do anything wrong, we're going to lose our right for no reason," says Ward.