BS: Pope 'condones condom use in some cases

Subject: RE: BS: Pope 'condones condom use in some cases
From: Smokey.
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 06:34 PM

It should really be an issue decided by women..

Subject: RE: BS: Pope 'condones condom use in some cases
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 06:44 PM

Aye, pregnant women. With lots of positive, non-judgemental support.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope 'condones condom use in some cases
From: Smokey.
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 07:34 PM

Aye, pregnant women. With lots of positive, non-judgemental support.

By and large, I think that's what happens in Blighty; I was meaning the legislation behind it. What right have men to decide whether or not it's legal? As for the Pope, it really is none of his business, though to be fair he can only advise and state ideals which by definition cannot be achieved. It is fundamentally wrong to take a life, no doubt about it, but life is seldom that straightforward and sometimes that course of action is the lesser evil.

I have to say though, I'm dead against private clinics doing it on demand for large sums of money - I suspect that's where most of the 'convenience' terminations take place.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope 'condones condom use in some cases
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 07:43 PM

Sorry, Ake, but that's what I see out of the "pro-life" movement:

• Very little concern or compassion, not really seeming to care about the life of the woman or the fetus - just an insistence that they're right and everybody else is wrong. An emphasis on winning, not on saving lives.
• An unrealistic dependence on legislation, and legislation alone, as a means of reducing the number of abortions - and condemnation of politicians who refuse to enact such legislation, even when such legislation seems unworkable.
• Requiring adherence to the entire conservative party line, even aspects that have nothing to do with abortion - implying that one is not truly "pro-life" unless one opposes taxes, so-called "big Government," immigration, and gun control. It's also interesting to see how many "pro-life" activists religiously support of the death penalty.

Nope. Not for me. I'm against abortion, but the so-called "pro-life movement" is melodramatic and an embarrassment and a sham, and I'm dismayed that so many Catholic bishops have jumped on their bandwagon. Oh, I'm sure there are pro-life people who are compassionate and concerned; but the pro-life voices that get heard are shrill and harsh and mean-spirited.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Pope 'condones condom use in some cases
From: frogprince
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 07:58 PM

Something that I admit to not clicking on, until someone else mentioned it, leading up to the mid term elections: Every piece of literature we received for candidates for our state legislature emphasized a "pro-life" stance, bold print on first page, with the exception of one avowedly pro-choice candidate.
No one in a state legislature can do a thumb-sucking thing, one way or the other, to legislate on abortion.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope 'condones condom use in some cases
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 10:21 PM

Where do you sit when there is knowledge the child will be deformed or say have Aids, Joe? As stated above this is the one I can't get my own head round/

Subject: RE: BS: Pope 'condones condom use in some cases
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 10:41 PM

Jon, I have to say that I don't have an answer for that. Especially in the case expected to be born deformed or diseased, I would think that the decision of the mother is sacred and unquestionable; and I would offer her no advice - only listening and compassion and respect. I think that listening and compassion and respect are far more important than taking the moral high ground.

Two women I know and love very much have had abortions. I think I'm glad I didn't know them at the time they had to make that decision. It wasn't a decision they made lightly - they were in very difficult relationships with the men who fathered the children, and didn't feel it was safe to bear the children. I grieve the loss of the children, but I have to respect the decision made by these women I love.
You know, I think that's all I can and should do - grieve the loss, grieve the sorrow the women have to endure in making such a decision, and listen and offer compassion. Somehow, I think my grief and compassion will do more to reduce the number of abortions, than any amount of condemnation. That's not what's considered to be the "party line" for Catholics, but I know a lot of priests who would respond the same way. They can't bring themselves to condemn people for anything done through an honest decision.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Pope 'condones condom use in some cases
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 10:48 PM

Condemnation I think (and have done it with so many things) is IMO amongst the worst traps we can fall into. It's one thing to state a belief (eg. in general I am anti abortion) but condemnation gets no one anywhere. Your compassion might though...

Subject: RE: BS: Pope 'condones condom use in some cases
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 05:23 AM

Joe....Of course it should not be a "political issue" inthe sense you mention ....That puts and end to real discussion and understanding of the problems involved.....We all line up in our political battle lines and stick in our ear plugs.

But the same applies to the promotion of homosexuality and the social, ethical and theological problems that brings up.
You, even as a devout Christian, seem to define yourself first and foremost in political terms.


The problem is that we no longer have the inclination to examine and discuss important social and moral issues.
It is much easier to define ourselves as Liberals or Conservatives, and live our lives according to the labels.

Of course most of us who shut of the reasoning switch end up by becoming "liberals"......what a waste!

Subject: RE: BS: Pope 'condones condom use in some cases
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 05:30 AM

Ake, yes. It is all to easy for example for me as I voted that way put on a yellow badge, say you put on (I'm not saying these are your beliefs just trying to do a for example) red badge and vote labour and Joe if he lived here *again with no implications about Joe) put on a Blue one and vote conservative.

Thought can too easily go out of the window!

Subject: RE: BS: Pope 'condones condom use in some cases
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 06:53 AM

Thats it Jon......always remember they are all the enemy (the political factions)

Always keep an open mind, no matter where you stand....left or right.

Its too easy to say the left/right dont think about the issues, so I wont either.