BS: Triage, or 'where am I'

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Sep 16 - 05:20 PM

Wysiwyg, you probably already know about the change, as it has been in effect for several months.

Max decided that the non-music threads, already segregated below-the-line or BS, from now on may be created, or posted to, by members only. People who post as "GUEST" may post only on music threads "above-the-line."

This change regarding Mudcat Guests resulted from a period during the early New Year when there was a lot of hot air and commotion on Mudcat threads. It went on and on, and finally Max had had enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Oct 16 - 09:35 PM

I don't have anything new and exciting to report, much less words of wisdom. Starting the thread in the beginning felt like sticking my neck out. I'm just grateful nobody sliced my head off. Especially grateful for the posts in this thread in which people took the time to think, reflect, and be introspective and considerate.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Andrez
Date: 16 Oct 16 - 01:12 AM

As we are equally grateful for your (understandably not easy) thoughtful sharing of inner thoughts and being on the path to health and healing.

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: frogprince
Date: 16 Oct 16 - 11:48 AM

Onward and upward : )

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 12:27 PM

This thread started out because of my response to the turmoil in the BS section of the forum.
Only very recently, a series of threads came to my attention: non-music and, as it happens, non-debate. The old-timers know about them. For months I had ignored them. Out of boredom or something, I clicked on one.
It was startling to glance at the posts on the thread and immediately get the feel of the emotions and attitudes. There are long-time Mudcat members there, and great familiarity. I'm not going to blow their cover....anyway, if this is a secret, it is one hiding in plain sight.

They won't appreciate my feelings about their ongoing conversation. I felt like an outsider. But that is as it ought to be, I guess. After all, I am an outsider really, and ought to stay that way. So better not to give in to indiscretion.

It's just that the experience was a real eye-opener.
It reminded me, though, that sometimes I like solitude. A sense of privacy even while participating in community. It was a big deal for me to post the earliest posts on this thread, precisely because I'm not that eager to "share." That's all for this post.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Joe_F
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 06:38 PM

I couldn't scare up the posting that explains the curious use of "triage" in the subject line. What is it doing there? In my book, triage has to do with the rational allocation of medical care. I suppose "where am I" likewise belongs to some special jargon.

As to the discussion, I once again marvel at whatever guardian angel it is that has protected me from *all* the bad manners referred to.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 06:55 PM

Well, Joe F., since you asked nicely:
I went back to the early part of the thread to hunt out my quote. As explained earlier, I liked somebody else's use of the word triage, so I quoted them.

The quote is in Message_ID=3785367 with the words, Community, It has its own triage built in.

Your skin must be thicker than mine. The relatives, to whom earlier posts on this thread refer, used to declare to me that I was too thin-skinned.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Dec 16 - 03:23 PM

Today I rejoice in the non-music thread in which a frequent Mudcat poster courteously invites everybody who participates in dog-pack behavior patterns -- threads with posts that collect in what I have called "bristling, growling clumps," skirmishes over territorial questions, verbal jostling for dominance within the pack, threatening to leave and then jumping right back in the thick of it, and so on and so forth -- to remove their pack-dog masks and get acquainted with each other as human souls for a change. Including a watchdog or two, bless their cotton socks. A breath of fresh air. Happy to be here to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Dec 16 - 05:19 PM

Hi Keb. Love to know you on Facebook. PM for details if desired.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Dec 16 - 11:04 AM

by Robert Francis:   SUMMONS

Keep me from going to sleep too soon.
Or if I go to sleep too soon
Come wake me up. Come any hour
Of night. Come whistling up the road.
Stomp on the porch. Bang on the door.
Make me get out of bed and come
And let you in and light a light.
Tell me the northern lights are on
And make me look. Or tell me clouds
Are doing something to the moon
They never did before, and show me.
See that I see. Talk to me till
I'm half as wide awake as you
And start to dress, wondering why
I ever went to bed at all.
Tell me the walking is superb.
Not only tell me but persuade me.
You know I'm not too hard persuaded.

© -- sorry, can't find the date

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Joe_F
Date: 25 Dec 16 - 06:50 PM

keberoxu: Thank you for your efforts, but I am more baffled than ever. Perhaps it is my ignorance that is protecting me from the rudeness alluded to. All the better!

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Dec 16 - 08:16 PM

The bad manners and rudeness referred to in earlier posts, it should be clear, are pretty much outside of this thread, although there were some earlier posts on this thread with catty bristling, hissing, and baring of retractable claws. Shortlived on this thread, though. The verbal aggression we talk about here, these are observations of posts on other threads mostly.

You can't be unaware that before April, the BS/Non-music section of the forum was adjusted so that "GUEST"s could no longer post there, the only permitted posts in BS/Non-music henceforth come from logged-in Mudcat members. The verbal aggression we lament here caused this adjustment to be made in the first place.

My original post referred directly to this change of policy.

Looking, through the Mudcat link features, at Joe F's own previous posts, there can be seen threads where this kind of unreasonable verbal outburst occurred with regularity: consider the "Winston Churchill Thieving Cheapskate" thread. I don't mean Joe F made those rude posts, I mean he posted to threads that had such posts in them.
Sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Jan 17 - 01:37 PM

More than one Mudcat member has posted to this thread, asking me what I meant by putting the word Triage in the thread title.

That's a good point. In more than one posted response, I have offered my official explanation, which is fine as far as it goes, no need to retract it: it stands.

Besides that, however, it could be asked: did some subconscious prompting nudge me to choose a word like "Triage" which is a strong word to some people?

yes, I am a civilian, and also I am not in the health/medicine profession; so "triage" is honestly outside my limited areas of expertise. My understanding of triage may in fact be part mis-understanding.

That said, I associate "triage" with two things:
a crisis situation in which first responders must make rational choices about priorities.
a context in which a chain of command enforces a policy that imposes order upon, shall we say, disorder.

I guess that the way that Max, here at Mudcat, had to change posting access to non-music/BS threads brought to mind a context of disorder and distress, and the imperative to impose order by enforcement.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Jan 17 - 05:29 PM

Oh, I almost forgot.
I don't do Facebook.
It's not personal -- just not my lifestyle. Sorry about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 17 - 06:17 PM

I'm reading a strong need for community. Consider, just consider some activity that may include some kind of community participation. Maybe it requires participation or not but in the real world you have to make plans first. The virtual digital world to me can provide instant gratification with real feelings and soul food but the corporeal world has even greater rewards on occasion.

You don't have to change anything else, just add on some communities you think you might like.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Aug 17 - 02:00 PM

This thread has come full circle. The moderators may close the thread if they care to.

The thread started right after the policy change at the Mudcat Cafe, which restricted BS-section posts to Mudcat members; guests, not logged in to their Mudcat member accounts, may no longer post to thread in the non-music/BS section, only to music threads "above the line."

One long-time, and universally welcomed and appreciated, Mudcat "lurker"/guest responded to the change by becoming a Mudcat member, with member-name and all, so as to continue exchanging posts on BS threads at Mudcat. I certainly was happy when this happened. This was right about the same time that this thread was started.

Now that same beloved individual has said Goodbye to the BS section altogether, probably to Mudcat as a whole, for exactly the kind of carryings-on over which we all felt helpless and frustrated in the first place. No one made this member leave, and it was not this member who misbehaved. The place is diminished without them.

Guess I'll give Mudcat more time. But now that this thread has come full circle, I will let the thread go, and the moderators may close it. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Aug 17 - 05:29 PM

You could easily have "let the thread go" by refraining from posting to it after a gap of eght months during which it was pretty well forgotten. I honestly can't see the point of your post.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 25 Aug 17 - 05:34 PM

Touche/

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Joe_F
Date: 26 Aug 17 - 09:07 PM

keboroxu: I cannot find the "Winston Churchill thieving cheapskate" thread. Has it been deleted in the meantime? Is there a censorship app that protects me against Mudcat rudeness?

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 11:42 AM

In the OP I asked where am I.
Since it was a Mudcat thread, obviously,
the question where am I was relevant to
where am I at Mudcat.

It has taken me several years
and lots of hard feelings on the part of
those Mudcat members who took offense at my posts.
They knew where I was, from the beginning, I guess.
I only just got to it now.

And the answer, as regards Mudcat, is simple:
I am outside the circle, that is where I am.
That is how I understand circles, anyhow.
They form a boundary which includes and excludes;
Included Mudcat members are inside the circle,
and the other Mudcat members are outside the circle.
Circles, for some people, are ingrained in their perspectives and attitudes, in their cultures,
and are diligently practiced in their routine life.
These people find it second nature
to include some and exclude the rest.

Well, I am a number of things,
but I am not one of the circle people,
as my perspective and experience are different.
Not better, not nobler, not more proper, nor the inverse --
simply different.

Maybe it is because I was raised in a house next to
two pairs of railroad tracks, with freight trains routinely going past,
that I personally favor parallel lines.
I especially favor parallel tracks, for some reason.
I tend to look for parallels, observe parallels, think in parallels,
build case arguments in parallels.
And whenever I encounter people who are committed to circles,
I have options whether or not to say what I honestly believe
or to hold my tongue so as not to give offense,
but the one thing I am not constituted to do, I find,
is to respect the boundary of the circle.
I just act like the freight train, I confess,
and I steam-roll right in and out of the circle
as though the circle, the boundary, did not even exist.

I could spend, and have spent, no small amount of time
considering questions like
"but keberoxu must be well aware that the circle is there,
and that this is a boundary that one does not cross without giving offense to somebody..."
the questions are valid, after all.
Through repeated trial and error, at the expense of others,
I do indeed begin to sense how others perceive themselves,
how others perceive their world and existence,
how others perceive me, the outsider.

It still leaves me outside the circle.
More to the point, I would do well never again
to approach the darned circle
because someone would take my very approach personally.
So I had better leave well enough alone.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Charmion
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 11:59 AM

Hmmm. Not sure how to respond to this.

Are you having a good day today, keb? I'm getting an impression of No. I'm sorry if that's the case.

I am a long-time contributor, but there are many topics I never comment on because I know that my input would not be welcome. Politics, for example, is usually a no-go area for me except in the rare case of a thread on Canadian politics. When I stay out, I do so because I have no dog in the fight, or because I know the other participants in the thread are chewing on an issue that they have wrangled over many times in the past without resolution.

Although they may be entirely notional, some of the testier circles at Mudcat are like family fights -- their debates have been going on since the year dot, and they don't want to be challenged. No good can come of sticking an oar in.

Instead, I prefer topics everyone can chip in on without hard feelings, such as house-cleaning, cats and food. And practising tunes.

How's your string ensemble doing? Do you have a new fiddle yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Charmion
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 12:02 PM

Fiddle player, I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 12:19 PM

Derrida, in particular in Structure, Sign, and Play in the Discourse of the Human Sciences discussed the Center, and scholars riffed on that to discuss writing back to the center. Those voices outside, excluded or self-isolated, who respond to the center. Post-colonial theory, travel writing, feminist theory, American Indian writers, Asian, Hispanic, and African American scholars all feature some aspect of this non-mainstream voice speaking back to the mainstream. One American Indian author called it "Writing in the Enemies Words."

That said, there has also been a lot of deliberate carefully-worded shit-stirring that is easily recognizable and consequently treated as trolling.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 12:20 PM

Gee, that was quick!

No, no change at this point;
we are still the Trout Trio,
we are no longer a Quartet and we never were a Quintet to begin with.

No, it's just that this month I received a "shame on you".
You won't find it in the posts, it was a PM.
And what is sad about it is that
I'm not ashamed. I ought to feel ashamed, and yet I don't.
I just feel resignation and sadness.
An agreement to disagree is one thing, but this is worse,
it's an acceptance of a failure to communicate.
I accept that someone is intensely offended by my words,
and I ought to stand corrected ...
never never say that again ...

what is the use?

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 12:42 PM

No shame on you, k, shame on the would-be shamers.

I have to add that I have no idea what policy change this thread was originally about. I also admit that I read the OP then skipped down to the posts resurrecting the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 02:35 PM

We have all had, are having or will have the same basic feelings of suffering. We all feel lonliness. We are all creatures of habit. We are all an amalgam of our handicaps and talents.

Religions know and pander to these sufferings. So do shrinks.
Making a habit of psychoanalysis has apparantly worked for Woody Allen. He's done it for 50+ years. But it doesn't cure or help everybody even if everyone could afford it.

A mental clockwise feedback loop can magnify lonliness or habits or feelings of inadaquacy. A counter clockwise feedback loop can also decrease these feelings.

In abnormal psychology involving brain or endocrine chemical problems, the use of medicine is still partly guesswork. I bet we all privately laugh at people who try to portray themselves as all talent without handicaps. If you don't - learn how. There are great people out there and you will find they are the humble ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 05:20 PM

"Circles, for some people, are ingrained in their perspectives and attitudes, in their cultures,
and are diligently practiced in their routine life.
These people find it second nature
to include some and exclude the rest. Circles, for some people, are ingrained in their perspectives and attitudes, in their cultures,
and are diligently practiced in their routine life.
These people find it second nature
to include some and exclude the rest."

and you begin by defining yourself as 'outside the circle'... specifically, the Mudcat circle. Kind of a self-fulfilling hypothesis.

*shrug* I have no idea whether I am in or out, but I just don't even do the exercise to work it out.
I have read your posts off & on for years, and never had any problems with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 06:02 PM

I was invited here so I gave it a try despite dyslexia difficulties. After several years I stopped careing about what anyone else thought.
Then when I saw more habit in charge than value I stopped for many years. I was invited back. As long as I still get hate PM's I know I must be expressing my own independant thought and not lying to please other people. Right now I am lazily stuck at home and become more easily bored but if I undertake any one of three projects I will curtail these frequent posting of brain droppings.
If you wonder if you are in some sort of circle I bet you are the only one who cared about it. Its an illusion.
Woody said he would never be a member of any organiation that would stoop so low as to accept his membership. All memberships require some sort of sacrifice. If its worth the seeds or eggs you get from it, more power to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 06:33 PM

"It has taken me several years
and lots of hard feelings on the part of
those Mudcat members who took offense at my posts."

With all respect, honestly. Who are these guys who "take offence"? I haven't detected any but maybe I'm not sensitive enough and I haven't a clue as to what vicious people say to you in PMs (don't allow that to happen is my advice: you really don't have to, and it definitely is never me). I don't read approximately 98% of your posts, but don't take offence at that: I don't read 99.569% of the posts here anyway. I imagine that 99.052% of people see a post from me and quickly move on without reading it. Grand. If for one second I thought I was inside some kind of a "Mudcat circle" I'd be out of here like a shot. I am outside the tent pissing in. Mudcat is two dimensions in a world of three. Keep your feet rooted in the real world and believe, as I do, that Mudcat is a wonderful place but not the whole place.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 06:54 PM

I think the "outside of the circle" thing is called a "victim complex". I'm not saying that's anyone here, and I don't think it's usually a permanent state, but we're all capable of it. It's a failing of mine that I react badly to folks I think are moving through that state. Also, people who seem to need an inordinate amount of attention. But the main thing is that I have to figure out how to deal with my reactions in a way that doesn't make me crankier than I typically am. You know - that little voice in your head that says "Just let it go. Walk away." Sometime, it's about what I've mentioned here, and sometimes, it's because someone doesn't know how to use apostrophes, but in the end, it's not about the person doing that stuff, it's about how we let it affect us.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Aug 20 - 03:03 PM

Steve Shaw, you and I are not always in agreement,
but this time we agree fully.

Thank you.
Your post has lightened the weight on my heavy heart.

Subject: RE: BS: Triage, or 'where am I'
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 12:16 AM

Groucho Marx, not Woody Guthrie, wouldn't join a club that would have him as a member.