BS: Lipstick on a Pig

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 04:22 PM

Hey Richard Bridge to No Where, I'm neither Repugnantkin, nor a conservative...thanks for your astute observations! If you read my post, earlier, you'd see where I stood on both the Clintons and the Bushes...or maybe you did and didn't understand it....par for the course!

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 04:44 PM

Back to the subject of the Republican party's outcry about Obama's "Lipstick on a Pig" comment as being an attack on Palin: I thought it was the most reprehensible race-baiting that they've pulled thus far in this campaign.

Yes, I said race-baiting. The message rang out loud and clear: "It's alright for our good ol' sons to say that about one o'them thar Democrat wimmen -- they deserve it -- but how dare that uppity [n-word] say that about one of OUR wimmen!?! You gonna let that boy get away with that???" Quite obviously, they are going after the bigot vote. The Republican campaign leaders know very well that they're taking Obama's words out of context, and they know very well that Obama was not talking about Palin at the time he uttered the well-known saying. They know very well that McCain used it as a direct slam at Hillary Clinton. And they don't care. They aren't concerned with accuracy or fairness. They only want to tap into deep-seated racial hatred that the more bigoted US citizens are sick of being expected to suppress. The Republicans don't want these people to vote with their minds, or even with their hearts (except perhaps the blackest parts of their hearts), but with their nooses and their burning crosses.

When I heard the news about how they were spinning what Obama said, I felt like I was watching that scene from "To Kill a Mockingbird" during that farce of a trial, where the black man was villified for his innocent action even though everyone in town knew what kind of a woman his accuser was, knew that his testimony about her actions was truthful and that hers was a lie, knew that she had been all over him and not the other way 'round... but felt they had to protect their race and their society against even an imagined incursion by the black man, even though they'd have to deal with disciplining the white woman after the trial and putting her in her place.

If McCain pulls off this farce and wins this election, it won't be because of the votes of women who think Palin is going to change anything -- we know that she would be made invisible except when they wanted to bring her out of a dark room and show her off -- no, it'll be because of the votes of the bigots they've riled up with their lies.

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Genie
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 05:05 PM

"McCain, on the other hand, has a long history of bipartisan cooperation. He has "walked the walk" not just "talked the talk". He is, without doubt, the most visible member of Congress who is truely willing to work accross the isle."

A decade or more ago, yes. In the past 8 years, not so much. McCain has pretty much voted in lock step with the Republicans and Dubya in recent years. He has neither been much of a "maverick" nor a bipartisan "unifier."

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Amos
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 05:10 PM

90% agreement with Boosh is not exactly walking the walk, except straight into the seventh Circle of Hell.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 05:34 PM

Oh well, back to wallowing in Bullshit...thanks guys!

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Genie
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 05:45 PM

Oh, I see, GFS. Talking facts is now "wallowing in BS." Suuuure it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 06:02 PM

What GfS means is, you can't shake your accustomed partisan viewpoint. He is NOT defending the neocons or the Right, he (or she) is pointing out the ludicrous stuff that's going on on BOTH sides of the phony "liberal/conservative" divide that has most of you mesmerized into backing one side or the other (Democrats or Republicans) and once again signing your country away to the people who have BOTH those parties tucked in their vest pocket.

As long as you believe in one side or the other of the big Duopoly, you're caught up in the great national illusion that maintains your political status quo.

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Emma B
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 06:04 PM

'the ludicrous stuff that's going on on BOTH sides of the phony "liberal/conservative" divide'

Right on!

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:22 PM

Oh, come on. It is easy to exhort other people to abandon a partisan viewpoint, to pretend one is concerned at how badly they have been misled, hoodwinked, manipulated into their views while not changing one's own viewpoint or methodology or indulgence in vituperation in favor of a more reasoned approach. Janet is a master at it.

I'm surprised that you apparently have fallen for it, Little Hawk.

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:35 PM

I don't know "Janet", but I don't think that GfS is Janet anyway. I DO think that the ruling political game in America is to keep the public's attention focused blindly forever on the Democrats and Republicans while larger interests behind those two parties and controlling them both run the show.

Do you remember when the public voted for the Democrats in Congress in 2006, under the impression (encouraged by the Democratic Party) that the Democrats would end the war in Iraq?

They didn't end it. They didn't even try. The public was robbed. No surprise to me.

Do you remember when Americans voted Lyndon Johnson in because they thought he was the candidate who would keep America out of foreign wars? He turned the Vietnam War into a huge conflict.

You can all continue getting fooled as long as you bounce back and forth betweem Tweedledee and Tweedledum endlessly.

Look, if I was there, you know what I'd do now? I'd still vote for Obama, because I think that John McCain and the Republicans are the worst of the two possible choices, and the Republicans deserve to be turfed out for the last 8 years of lunacy. But would I expect it to change things fundamentally in America if the Democrats won? Nope. Even if Obama wanted to bring in some fundamental changes (of a more liberal sort), he couldn't. The sheer weight of the established American $ySStem would not let him.

Spaw has said as much in some of his posts lately. Is he too "fooled by Janet"?

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: pdq
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:36 PM

Sanitized GUEST is not Janet Ryan, but perhaps you are implying that he would be better served by joining? Just a guess, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:39 PM

Well, at least when you've joined, people know (sort of ) who you are when you post. That helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: pdq
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:46 PM

"...because I think that John McCain and the Republicans are the worst of the two possible choices..."

The least you liberal arts majors can do is use correct syntax. (big pedantic grin here)

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:59 PM

Hey, man...I never even got my degree. I majored in Spanish, but dropped out in first year University. I'm a working class hero. ;-)

But I do know some neat phrases like "hijo de la chingada", so it wasn't all for nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:59 PM

Sharon A,

Very good and well thought out post... Yeah, between the cutsie posts and usual bickering you have hit the nail square on the head...

And that is exactly the McCain formula to win this election...

But while I agree that the strategy is to corral the bigots and get them to the polls the more dangerous, and down right sickening, part of this strategy is assuming that there are alot of folks who have fought hard to overcome their racism who only need a little nudge and fear-mongering to take them right back to a time when they were scared to death of black people...

Yeah, that is scariest part of this campaign but, hey, I think it was inherent in what was going to occur... Yeah, sure, shame on John McCain but...

...shame on our country, too...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 08:10 PM

Bobert, they will do anything they can to win. Anything. And if the public is stupid enough to fall for absolute garbage, then absolute garbage is exactly what they will use.

This is also true in Canada, but sometimes the garbage backfires. For instance, our presently ruling Conservative Party tried to get mileage out of showing some pictures of a bird (a Puffin) shitting on the Liberal Party candidate for Prime Minister! (as if it would matter who a bird shat on...)

It backfired. The public got mad about it, and the Conservative leader (our present prime minister) had to issue an official apology. It was a minor blip in the election, though. He'll probably win anyway, because the "liberal" vote here is presently divided between three different parties, while the conservative vote pretty well all goes to the Conservatives.

Thus about 40% of the Canadian electorate ends up winning an election over the other 60% of the Canadian electorate.

Interesting system we have in place here, eh? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 08:48 PM

My apologies, LH. It is apparent that GtS is NOT Janet. I went back and checked. On the other hand, a rose by any other name... *G*

GtS, you never mention your music any more- have you given it up?

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 09:04 PM

No problem. So many people have been mistaken for Janet by now that she is approaching the mythical status of Osama Bin Laden... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 01:13 AM

lol

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 03:00 AM

Not only am I not Janet, I don't even know who you are talking about...it doesn't matter, I'm just words on a screen...but they are accurate, to the best of my abilities, for as much typing that I want to do..(I'm not a mega-typer)...and ...Yes, I did the benefit concert, and it was both a lot of joy, and was extremely well received...and they even sold out...and sold 50% more..and raised even more, than they originally targeted..thank you for asking. The next project is recording..of which, when it is available, I'd be happy to share with my dearest Mudcat, trigger happy, loved ones, on here!
Little Hawk is also correct in his assertions about my posts, and if this goes beyond the partisan, nonsense, we could really go deeper...matter of fact...'Lipstick on a pig'...is a perfect description of the whole corrupt charade, that we are witnessing , every day we live, here in the 'division of America' era. I would like to implore you, who are writers, artists and musicians, to reach deep within yourselves, to the heart, and write, speak, and sing against the fall of a once proud nation! The politicians will follow if we lead. Forty years ago, we stopped a war(though history will show if that was wise or not), ..who knows..but now, is the time to make a difference to heal, and reach across, to your brothers and sisters, as brothers and sisters, and become one, as a people. God Bless!

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: pdq
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 11:09 AM

Well, somebody had to do it...

                                                   lipstick on a pug

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 11:29 AM

I think that Obama should own the "lipstick on a pig" statement. It refers to McCain's
misguided policies.

Whatever you do, don't think of a Queen of Pork.

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: mg
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 02:47 PM

If I was writing on racially sensitive matters, I probably wouldn't say anything about blackest part of a heart. Like Obama's statement, I think it was entirely innocent but it is the sort of thing we have been encouraged not to say. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 04:22 PM

Politicians don't say things "innocently"
I've watched a few re-runs of the speech and I'm quite certain the remark was "planted".

The audiance reacted to the word "lipstick" and Obama looked oh so slightly startled, as if he didn't know what they were laughing at ...feined innocence??. However, just for a second, a slight smirk passed across his face, just enough to let them see that he knows what they know!
Writing in todays Sunday Times, radical feminist Camille Paglia says of Mrs Palin...."It is premature to predict how the Palin Saga will go. I may not agree a lot with her about basic principles, but I have immensely enjoyed Palin's boffo performances at her debut.
A feminist that cannotadmire the bravura under high pressure of the first woman governor of a frontier state, Isn't worth a bucket of warm spit"..............I'll second that opinion......Ake

Camille Paglia's articlHEREe

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: pdq
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 04:34 PM

"A feminist that cannot admire the bravura under high pressure of the first woman governor of a frontier state, Isn't worth a bucket of warm spit." ~ Camille Paglia

Well, she does "play well" out here in Nevada. Actually, she would sweep the entire country west of the Mississippi River (New Mexico excluded) if it were not for a few large urban areas: Seattle, Portland, Denver, and several in coastal California.

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:29 PM

Dubious right wing polls show that Plain oops,,, Palin has increased her lead among WHITE women by 15%

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:44 PM

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:49 PM

...ma belle...

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Emma B
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:50 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Emma B
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:51 PM

ooops! seems that was 'sans' les mots!

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Amos
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 06:25 PM

Seems to me that by making Baracks phrase such an all-fired loud issue, McCain's camp is ignoring the pig and focusing on the lipstick. But it's still a pig.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Genie
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 09:25 PM

Ake said, "Politicians don't say things "innocently."

Sure they do. Maybe not when they're totally scripted (as in the convention speeches). But when even parts of their talk to an interviewer or in a town hall or stump speech are spontaneous -- as is usually the case -- they may choose their words not just innocently but often clumsily as well. Everyone makes gaffes, including politicians.   That said, I don't think this was a gaffe.
I don't think the Democrats should have to abandon this perfect, very familiar metaphor just because the Republican VP nominee had used the word "lipstick" in her convention speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Genie
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 09:31 PM

Stringslinger, I've said before -- not sure if it was here at Mudcat or in an email to friends and family -- that Obama should embrace his "lipstick on a pig comment."

He should take out an ad (and/or use this comment in interviews and speeches) to say:

"I did not call the Governor Of Alaska a pig.   What I called "a pig with lipstick" was John McCain's economic, education, environmental, health care, and foreign policy.
But come to think of it it, Gov. Palin truly is the Queen Of Pork."

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Genie
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 09:35 PM

Oh, and as for admiration for the bravura" of Sarah Palin, hey, I don't begrudge her that.

It's just that what I want in a President -- and, by extension, anyone who is a heartbeat away from becoming one -- is a helluva lot more than just guts, political craftiness, and chutzpah.

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 04:26 AM

Sighhhh....
...but Camille Paglia's statement is a step in the right direction, in the way of breaking down preconceived notions, on what anyone can achieve, despite their 'biased against' political stereotypes. Let's look at the achievements and accomplishments of others, and realize we can set our own goals. (Interpretation: The pen is mightier than the sword!)

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 03:46 PM

I put lipstick on our dog
But since she is black the only place it would show up was right beneath her tail.

Its a real eye grabber all right



What is the democrate version of lipstick on a pit bull?

Libstick on anything

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 09:26 AM

Sorry, for got to 'name up'

From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 03:46 PM

I put lipstick on our dog
But since she is black the only place it would show up was right beneath her tail.
Its a real eye grabber all right
What is the democrate version of lipstick on a pit bull?
Libstick on anything .......ANSWER: Hillary Clinton, but the 'libstick' on the black pit bull's ass, is far more attractive!!!!!!!...and makes more sense!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 10:50 AM

Yeah!! Amos............wishful thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: GUEST,Guest from sanity
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 11:40 AM

I just arrived back to this time period, from the future, stepped off the spaceship, with news from the future,.....the history books are defining 'Lipstick on a Pig', as Monica Lewinski..and all the other piglets that Billy Boy Clinton, had affairs with.....caused me to wonder, as I gazed off in the horizon,...Is that one reason Sarah has five children, and Hillary only one????

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 11:49 AM

Camille Paglia's statement is an odd one: she's says that because Pailin is gutsy and spunky and a woman, we shouldn't worry about her beliefs because she hasn't acted on them...as yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 12:00 PM

Yeah Dick, either Paglia is coming to her senses, or just running her mouth to gain credibility...very confusing for her to say anything nice about some one not sharing her mental health problems!

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Amos
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 02:19 PM

From an interview with Obama in Univision:

"Everything that's said in the campaign makes headlines and yesterday you said, "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig." Republicans are suggesting that it was an insult to Sarah Palin. What did you mean by that comment and in hindsight, do you regret saying that?"

-Absolutely not, this is nonsense....

"-You don't regret saying that...?"

-Of course not. I was talking about John McCain's economic policies, and I said, "He can call it change, but it's not change, and if you put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig." That is an old expression.

-"But, why use that metaphor when it's one of Sarah Palin's most famous phrases up to now."

-What do you mean?

"-The difference between a pitbull..."

-No, no, but listen...

"...and a hockey mom is lipstick..."

-I don't watch Sarah Palin's speeches. This is a metaphor...

"-You don't watch her speeches?"

-I'm not worried about what she is saying. This is an expression I've used; this is an expression John McCain has used. So the notion that somehow now that she uses an expression, that somehow you cannot use that expression as well, I think is just a fabrication.

This is an example of them not wanting to talk about those issues. What does that have to do with the lives of your viewers? What does that have to do with what they are going through right now? We have the highest foreclosure rate since the Great Depression. There are families in communities all across America that are losing their homes.

We were talking yesterday about education and making sure that we reduce the drop out rate, and this is what the McCain campaign wants to talk about? And unfortunately the media, this often times is what the media is interested in talking about, instead of talking about the things that are going to make a difference in people's lives. So, I have absolutely no regrets about it; and we are going to change how politics works in this country so we actually start dealing with the serious problems that we face.
"

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 04:17 PM

Amos, I read Obama's interview...But i was interrupted constantly by th by this flock of pigs flying over. You actually believe him when he said he didn't listen to her speech?????....NOR HIS SPEECH WRITER?? ...OR 'ADVISERS'.........LOOK OUT, ANOTHER FLYING PIG JUST ABOUT BANGED MY HEAD WITH HIS HOOF!!!!...wow..that was close...

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 04:34 PM

Er - fugitive from sanity, do you know where and why lipstick was (mostly) first worn?

And beforeyou accuse me of not reading your drivel, you'd better go back and read what you said.

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Amos
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 04:36 PM

GfS:

Your bilious sarcasm continues to be unbecoming and to disguise your actual sensitivity, humor, and talent.

I did not say I believed one or another part of the part of the interview I posted. I suspect he said he did not read the speech by Palin as part of his effort to not be positioned against her. In any case it was the least important part of what he said. What was important about it was it straightened out right quick the lewd distortions being offered by the McCain camp followers who are overly hungry for justification and outrage, no matter at what cost.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 05:20 PM

Geoff Nunberg on Fresh Air.


Fresh Air from WHYY, September 16, 2008 · When Barack Obama trotted out a well-worn, folksy phrase about cosmetics and swine on Sept. 9, the political world developed a sudden allergic rash.

The John McCain campaign depicted the remark as deliberate personal attack on vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin. Former Massachusetts governor Jane Swift, who was heading up a Palin "Truth Squad," accused Obama of calling McCain's running mate a pig — and described the remark as offensive and disgraceful.

Fresh Air's resident linguist examines the furor, asking who's responsible when words get misconstrued — and whether there's an irony when a cultural conservative complains that a progressive has been insufficiently sensitive.

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Amos
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 05:56 PM

All I can say is, if the lipstick fits, wear it.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 05:56 PM

What chance is there to change anything, when people are so partisan that they refuse to believe the evidense of their own eyes and ears!

It is truly mesmerism.
Obama is not a saviour, he is a token black man set up by the $yStem as a foil to the discredited right. He plays the game like any other politician, speaking of a change that the $yStem will never allow....and make no mistake, the change that is needed is well beyond Mr Obama or Mr McCain.

The Capitalist financial system is imploding and you talk of Obama as if he can make the slightest difference.

You could well come to see that the change you wish for, will have to be won on the streets, not in the politician's den.......Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Genie
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 08:18 PM

Guest from Sanity,
After you used that lipstick on your dog "where it would show up," I hope you designated that particular tube as the dog's exclusive property!

(At the very least, if it was some woman's lipstick and not your own, I hope you told her where it'd been.)

LOL

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Lipstick on a Pig
From: Genie
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 08:19 PM

Oh, wait. It was you who "decorated" your dog, Donuel!

Well, the same caveat still holds.

Genie


(Kids, please do not try this at home with your mom's lipstick.)