BS: blood & soil Nazification of America

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 10:32 AM

Actually, Don, it sounds like a pretty clever story and might make an interesting futuristic utopian film or novel, or both. Now leaving for real.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 10:35 AM

Instead of a comedy I already wrote a drama about a Jewish GI clerk at the end of WWII that does his own paperwork to adopt a blonde baby from a Liebensborn mega orphanage in Schimmel Germany. The infant storm trooper becomes a guy like me.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 10:45 AM

When I was a kid my neighbor was Rod Serling. Vignettes became a hobby.
None of them are fleshed out into novels. Since I can't read for pleasure or turn the mind off its all stories and cartoons in my head.
Its just that they are rarely any good.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 10:47 AM

One more note, in my post of 10:12 I was indulging in a bit of irony myself, the original Nazis were obsessed with racial purity, why not turn the tables on the latter day ones? Now, gone.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 10:51 AM

Ill leave it here but that is kinda the main point of the comedy.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 11:47 AM

"You might want to pause and reflect a while on why folk think that."

Oh I know very well why they say that, I don't believe they allow thought into the process. They say it because they have no rational response to the figures, that wont bring their ideology crashing down around them.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 12:20 PM

"I don't believe they allow thought into the process."
The world's mad, except me!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Stu
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 12:29 PM

Ake, you are a worry mate.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 12:30 PM

It is easier to apply a label than argue a case.
Just name calling.
It means they have no reply.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 03:09 PM

And your post adds exactly what professor.

Many people consider Donald Trump to be a disaster waiting to happen.

I hope I am wrong in saying this, but I think it only a matter of time before a major violent issue arises with his presidency, that issue may involve many nations, including our own.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 03:29 PM

Trump tweets how mass murder is a good thing
General Pershing story

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 04:44 PM

?Many people consider Donald Trump to be a disaster waiting to happen.

No, he's very much a disaster that HAS happened.

And its only going to get worse.

HEIL TRUMP!!

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 08:30 PM

This week hasn't been a complete disaster for Twit. He made the cover of The New Yorker.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 02:45 AM

I think that Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican, gave an excellent response to Trump. Take a look at his video.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 03:48 AM

I got this email today from moveon.org. I have to confess that I have enjoyed seeing Confederate monuments on Civil War battlefields and in southern cities. To my mind, there's something good about honoring those who were on the losing side. But on the other side, history shows that many of these monuments were erected in the early 20th century, long after the Civil War; and it does seem that many of them were erected to create a myth of a noble Confederacy - an effort to promote white supremacy, perhaps? So, I dunno. Where do we draw the line on this? Will it be a good thing to "remove every Confederate symbol in America," as the petition demands?
I don't know the answer to that.
-Joe-

Here's the email:

Breaking: Just this morning, Donald Trump doubled down on his embrace of white supremacy, saying it's "foolish" and "sad" that cities are removing Confederate statues in the aftermath of the violence in Charlottesville, Virginia. Calling these symbols of white supremacy "beautiful statues," he claimed that our culture is being "ripped apart."

Click here to sign the petition: Demand that our elected leaders remove every Confederate symbol in America.

We must take down the symbols of the Confederacy from any place of honor. Confederate statues must be rightfully recognized as a symbol of white supremacy and its current political power. White supremacist terrorists in Charlottesville were willing to kill in the name of these symbols. Take 'em ALL down!
Sign Rashad's petition

Dear MoveOn member,

Now is the time to intensify the pressure to remove confederate statues across America.

Baltimore, Maryland, and Los Angeles, California, have already removed monuments to the Confederacy. The mayor of Lexington, Kentucky, announced that his city would remove two statues. And New Jersey's Senator Cory Booker is introducing a measure to remove Confederate statues from the U.S. Capitol.

But we can't be satisfied until all of these symbols are removed all across the country. Our campaign is gaining momentum and this is a critical moment to push for action against these monuments to white supremacy.

Will you add your name to our petition to demand that our elected leaders take 'em ALL down?

Last weekend, in Charlottesville, a white supremacist rammed a car into a group of peaceful protesters and killed one person. The night before, white nationalists marched through Charlottesville communities and the University of Virginia campus, rallying around a statue of the Confederacy and carrying torches evoking a history of violent racial terrorism. Emboldened by Trump, white supremacists are now acting to intimidate us from removing symbols of white supremacy.

But we won't stop working to remove every single Confederate symbol in America. And as each news cycle demonstrates, the movement to remove these symbols is gaining energy with elected officials and grassroots activists around the country!

Will you sign and share the petition to take 'em ALL down? Click here to join the campaign to remove every Confederate symbol in America.

Since Dylann Roof massacred churchgoers at Mother Emanuel AME, we have been organizing around the nation to remove symbols of the Confederacy from any place of honor in America. In response, white supremacists are rallying around Confederate statues and using them as a pretext to commit domestic terrorism and murder.

We cannot allow these white supremacist terrorists to intimidate us from confronting and working to dismantle systemic white supremacy.

Click here to add your name to this petition, and then pass it along to your friends.

We must work to end the influence of today's white supremacists. Removing all Confederate statues would be the first step in sending the message that we are no longer honoring white supremacy at a societal level. We've already seen progress in Tampa, Florida, and New Orleans, Louisiana, where Confederate symbols are being removed by Black-led organizing in the face of sustained white supremacist opposition.

Sign the petition and tell elected officials: It's time to remove all Confederate statues in America.

Thanks.

—Rashad Robinson, Color of Change

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 04:00 AM

It would seem to me, that the cause of the skirmish at Charlottesville was indeed over the removal of the statues of Civil War "heros". Apparently the civil war was not fought simply to outlaw slavery, but for other political reasons.
Lincoln himself said that he was not in favour of the repeal and many of the founders of the country were massive slave owners.

All over Scotland we have monuments to people like William Wallace , Clan chiefs and generals who were considered terrorists by the UK government, but national heros by at least half of the Scottish people.
Can you imagine the uproar and civil violence which would be caused by the attempted removal of these monuments?

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 04:10 AM

I was also amazed and disgusted by film of American citizens rushing to wipe their feet on and kick the monuments which have already been removed.

These monuments are also a memorial to the huge number of ordinary Americans who fought for "The South"
We do not blame the ordinary German soldiers for the excesses of Mr Hitler.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 04:47 AM

"We do not blame the ordinary German soldiers for the excesses of Mr Hitler"

Nor will you find any monuments to him.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 04:49 AM

Well said, Raggytash.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 05:06 AM

I saw video of a memorial to ordinary soldiers being torn down.
They were not slave owners. Often barefoot, they fought to defend their states from invasion and won some remarkable victories against superior forces.
I think they deserve a memorial. Should their cemeteries be desecrated too?

There are monuments to German soldiers in Germany.
Why not to Southern soldiers in their home states?

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 05:29 AM

Ancient Egypt ran into problems with their statues of deposed and vilified leaders. They often toppled or vandalized statues for example of Akhenaton.

I pity the fool who thinks a backlash by racists has anything to do with statues.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 05:44 AM

Put the statues in a museum dedicated to slavery. That way, we don't have to look at them if we don't want to. I'd extend that general notion of hiding statues of obnoxious people to any statues of Churchill, Thatcher and Dr Livingstone that happen to be around. My list is by no means exclusive. The statues are worse than pornography. I once endured a whole evening in a Conservative club in Manchester (a family gathering to which I was obliged to go, I hasten to add), surrounded by huge framed photographs of Thatcher, Churchill and Her Majesty. Mind you, the beer was cheap, which was just as well seeing that I had to drink faster than usual in order to deaden the pain.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 06:26 AM

Do the American people really equate Gen Robert E Lee with Hitler?
Shurley, shome mishtake???

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 06:47 AM

I thought this was worth reading, it appears to be from a respected writer on the Civil War.


Linclon and Lee.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 07:21 AM

"About the author: Joe Ryan is a Los Angeles trial lawyer who has traveled the route of the Army of Northern Virginia, from Richmond to Gettysburg several times"

How does this translate to "it appears to be from a respected writer on the Civil War"

It's not only our American cousins who speak a different language.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 07:30 AM

Donal Jerk has put down the dog whistle and picked up a megaphone.

The Economist

Any one who truly wishes to understand the primary cause of our Civil War (the preservation of vs. the abolition of slavery) needs to go back at least as far as the invention of the cotton gin which made slavery profitable again.

Also, the "Southern Heritage" monument enthusiasts around here should be aware that many of these statues that are being torn down and are soon to be torn down were erected in the 1960's as a big middle finger to the Civil Rights Movement, very much like the one the organizers of the Charlottesville demonstration (right wing hate groups, look it up) flipped at non-whites everywhere. Any one who thinks that this is about "our beautiful history" has swallowed the racist bait, hook, line and sinker.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 07:32 AM

AKE WHAT DOES THE HIGH HOLY DAY OF SHOME MISTAKA HAVE TO DO WITH HITLER?
What kind of sacrilegious anti Semitic racist spittle are you drooling now?
The very thought is sickening.
Have you no decency?
May the Gods of Festivus curse you and your creed

When Noses served unto us all the TEN CONDIMENTS he should have had one more for your unheard of transgression.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 07:38 AM

I Relish the tortures of the darned you will suffer.
If you ever Ketch up to rational thought you will regret your words.
You are in a Pickle sir!

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 07:51 AM

"Hitler?
Shurley, shome mishtake??? "
Your very words.

This is as disgusting as Lincoln's Emasculation of the slaves.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 07:56 AM

sorry sorry I thought it was talk like Ake day

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 09:01 AM

If you have ever heard the defensive lies by the conservative Trump apologists you know they are not there to apologize. They are there to defend and preserve the hate and heritage of the KKK and Nazi parallel groups.

Fox News is famous for interviewing the KKK over Ferguson MS and Charlottesville VA. They have legitimatized the Klan POV more than Trump. They claim the Left are the only killers and destructive demonstrators. They have repeated this theme for decades.

Half of the country is entranced by the steady news stream of hate of the villainous left.

Reasonable people do not like lies but with repetition they stop fighting against the lies. Until they too repeat them.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 09:37 AM

Put the statues in a museum dedicated to slavery.

Would that include all George Washington statues Steve?
He had 123 slaves on his estate.
Thomas Jefferson statues would all have to be shut away in slavery museums too. He kept slaves and used at least one of them for sex because she was impregnated by him.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 09:42 AM

Its long past time these monuments to treason and slavery were removed.

If the Daughters and Sons of the Confederacy (do look up both groups) want to set up a Confederate Theme Park & put them all there so that they can persist in the fantasy of a noble "Lost Cause" and revel in the history of white supremacy, Jim Crow, lynching and all the rest, let them have at it.


"[W]e must not be asked to say that the South was right in the rebellion, or to say the North was wrong. We must not be asked to put no difference between those who fought for the Union and those who fought against it, or between loyalty and treason.

I admit that the South believed it was right, but the nature of things is not changed by belief. The Inquisition was not less a crime against humanity because it was believed right by the Holy Fathers.

[T]he sectional character of this war was merely accidental and its least significant feature. It was a war of ideas, a battle of principles and ideas which united one section and divided the other; a war between the old and new, slavery and freedom, barbarism and civilization; between a government based upon the broadest and grandest declaration of human rights the world ever heard or read, and another pretended government, based upon an open, bold and shocking denial of all rights, except the right of the strongest.

Good, wise, and generous men at the North, is power and out of power, for whose good intentions and patriotism we must all have the highest respect, doubt the wisdom of observing this memorial day, and would have us forget and forgive, strew flowers alike and lovingly, on rebel and on loyal graves. This sentiment is noble and generous, worthy of all honor as such; but it is only a sentiment after all, and must submit to its own rational limitations. There was a right side and a wrong side in the late war, which no sentiment ought to cause us to forget, and while to-day we should have malice toward none, and charity toward all, it is no part of our duty to confound right with wrong, or loyalty with treason."

    - Frederick Douglass, 30 May 1878



The Whole Address is worth reading.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 09:44 AM

I see the Professor is channelling Twitler now, and maintains that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson took up arms against the government of the United States in the cause of Slavery.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 09:52 AM

"Removing all Confederate statues would be the first step in sending the message that we are no longer honoring white supremacy at a societal level. We've already seen progress in Tampa, Florida, and New Orleans, Louisiana, where Confederate symbols are being "
Absolutely
Washingtom, et al lived in a slave owning/trading society as did the founders of industrial Britain - they bowed to its inevitability as did Britain
Washingtom
"Washington expressed other concerns over slavery's implications for the nation. In 1797, Washington is reported to have told a British guest: "I can clearly foresee that nothing but the rooting out of slavery can perpetuate the existence of our union"
"Jefferson"
"In his writings on American grievances justifying the Revolution, he attacked the British for sponsoring the slave trade to the colonies. In 1778, with Jefferson's leadership, slave importation was banned in Virginia, one of the first jurisdictions worldwide to do so. Jefferson was a lifelong advocate of ending the trade and as president led the effort to criminalize the international slave trade that passed Congress and he signed in 1808, a year after the British did the same thing"
Lincoln
"Lincoln often expressed moral opposition to slavery in public and private.[1] Initially, he expected to bring about the eventual extinction of slavery by stopping its further expansion into any U.S. territory, and by proposing compensated emancipation (an offer Congress applied to Washington, D.C.) in his early presidency. Lincoln stood by the Republican Party's platform of 1860, which stated that slavery should not be allowed to expand into any more territories. He believed that the extension of slavery in new western lands would block "free labor on free soil", and he also wanted a peaceful, enduring end to slavery. As early as the 1850s, Lincoln was politically attacked as an abolitionist, but he did not consider himself one. "
The men who these statues stood for slavery and, as Joe pointed out, are used espectabilise colour prejudice - many were erected to honour just that
The have far more to do with the present thna they do of the past
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 09:53 AM

Keith, the monuments in question, that are coming down and will continue to come down, were erected to traitors who fought a war, which killed hundreds of thousands of Americans, to preserve slavery. Not too difficult to understand unless you've adopted an moron like Trump, with all his racially motivated misdirections, for your history teacher.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 09:55 AM

The primary thing you have to understand is that the Confederacy existed to overthrow the American government.

Trump likes that, as do his hate-filled followers.

Putting up monuments to traitors years after they were defeated is a big old "Fuck You" to America and those who love America. It's a big "we still think you should be slaves" to Blacks. Whatever some people think a symbol means, whatever the meaning is to the greatest number of people is what wins.

I think it's good to put the statues in a museum somewhere and talk about them. They aren't shoved in people's faces all the time, and they aren't considered to be what a town is about.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 09:55 AM

If anybody wishes to visit a half-decent Slavery museum, they could do worse than visit the one on the site of the former Liverpool docks, whre generations of slaves were landed and sold
A truely fitting memorial to our past
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 10:04 AM

You thought wrong, Ache, about that screed by Joe Ryan- whoever the hell he's supposed to be. Having been fool enough actually to read it, I can tell you that I've seldom - and possibly ever- seen such a pile of absolute horseshit pretending to be history in a single place.

If you really want to know about Lincoln, may I suggest the excellent works by Ronald White and Doris Kearns Goodwin. There are also some excellent factual biographies of Lee out there written by actual scholars and historians instead of by some ignorant idiot Confederate apologist.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Stu
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 10:05 AM

"Would that include all George Washington statues Steve?"

Did you read gillymor's post Keith, or are you ignoring the arguments that you cannot oppose? Again.

Tiresome trying to debate with folk who don't know how to debate.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 10:11 AM

Some folks around here should get a gander at the kind of hatred
they 're defending, wether they know it or not.

Charlottesville: Race and Terror- Vice News

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 10:12 AM

The parroting of the "Washington owned slaves" red herring...

Lots of people owned slaves. It was a thing back then. It was a very bad thing. We fought a war because our government wanted to make it illegal, and another group of people didn't think the government should do that, so they wanted to get rid of the government.

Then some assholes in places where that insurrection was strong put up statues to commemorate the people who wanted to destroy the government and keep slavery legal.

And then we tore them down.

The End

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 10:14 AM

Succinct Jeri.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 10:15 AM

monuments are also a memorial to the huge number of ordinary Americans who fought for "The South"

Ache, What about that monument in Coventry to "The Brave Men Of The Luftwaffe"?

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 10:21 AM

Greg,
maintains that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson took up arms against the government of the United States in the cause of Slavery.

No. I maintain that they were slave owners.
If supporting slavery is the issue, Jefferson and Washington have to go too.

" traitors who fought a war,"

Traitors because they wanted to secede, like Irish home rulers and today's Scottish Nationalists?

Here in Britain we believe in people's right to self determination.

I know that the US Civil War is still and emotive and divisive issue over there. As a foreigner I probably will never understand, so I will say no more.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 10:26 AM

Some foreigners are very well versed in American history but your comment 'As a foreigner I probably will never understand, so I will say no more.' is your first rational contribution to this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 10:27 AM

What about that monument in Coventry to "The Brave Men Of The Luftwaffe"?

I can respond to that.
There is none.
Neither are there any memorials in Germany to the brave men of the USAF or RAF.
There are war memorials to the dead of Germany in Germany however, and similarly in Japan.

Should the victors of that war go back and tear them down?
That would stir up resentment and hatred too.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 10:31 AM

so I will say no more.

God Be Praised!

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 10:33 AM

Whoops! Geez, Professor, thought you'd said you were going to shut up? But we all know what your promises are worth, so no surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Aug 17 - 10:33 AM

http://thirdreichruins.com/memorials.htm

Scroll down to see some of the memorials.