BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 04:14 PM

Don't go, Fred. We need all views here

Apart from deforms ;-)

Oh, and, I think

200

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 04:24 PM

Being a perfectionist means there will never be an ideal candidate for you, Fred. It's frankly silly to stop participating in the discussion because the perfect answer doesn't come along, and it doesn't negate the statement I made before - choosing not to vote is in fact a vote. So pull up your socks and look at the field, and if you can't find the perfect candidate to represent your position, hold your nose and vote for the candidate who will crimp the style of the worst candidate in the race.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 04:35 PM

”if you can't find the perfect candidate to represent your position, hold your nose and vote for the candidate who will crimp the style of the worst candidate in the race.”

That’s precisely my position - for many years I voted Liberal/Lib Dem, not because I’m a Lib/Lib Dem supporter, but because, in my safe-Tory-seat constituency, Labour always came a very poor third with the Libs/Lib Dems a much closer second. It seemed sense, therefore, to vote Lib/Lib Dem in the hope they would oust our long-sitting Tory MP. Sadly it never came to fruition and, following what I regard as the treachery of the Lib Dem coalition with Cameron’s Tories in 2010, I’ve preferred to vote Labour.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 26 Sep 25 - 11:58 AM

When I applied for membership, a few months ago, I said that I wouldn't get involved in (or cause) arguments.

However, when I said in this thread that I play no active part in elections, it seemed to fire members up. It wasn't said to have that effect.

However, it seemed to build and build, and I didn't understand why. After all, I don't say you shouldn't vote, so why do you say I should? Surely it's my choice, just like it's yours?

As for leaving, and all that - well, maybe I shouldn't be so sensitive about what others post, even if nastily to me. It's a forum, sh*t happens, toughen up.

So I'll be staying.

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Sep 25 - 12:04 PM

I don't believe anyone was being nasty. It's all in how you read them to yourself, borrowing an attitude that wasn't intended. But in this day and age to come into a political thread and discuss not voting, well, that's a head-scratcher.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 26 Sep 25 - 12:12 PM

SRS,

I didn't come in to discuss non-voting, it was just dropped into one of my posts and was picked up on.

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 25 - 01:08 PM

Fred. You explained why you don't vote and a number of people offered counter arguments as to why you should. It is how debates work. Entirely up to you whether you accept the counter arguments or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 26 Sep 25 - 02:14 PM

Dave,

Yes, absolutely, I get that totally. It's just that I wanted it to die down but it didn't.

Anyway, let's forget it - water under the bridge. I read the Green Party manifesto, thanks for that. Some good things in it, made me think. Maybe, who knows! We'll see :)

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Aethelric
Date: 27 Sep 25 - 03:48 AM

Worrying link about ID cards here. What is happening in the World?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Sep 25 - 04:08 AM

A few valid points in the link but, in my opinion, there is too much hyperbole. Yes, the government will be able to access your information. They already can. Starmer is the most unpopular prime minister. Really? So soon after Johnson and Truss? Only brought in to look tougher on immigration? Just as Starmer attacks deform? Hmmmm. I am ambivalent to the idea of ID cards but I think the article needs a bit of balance

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Sep 25 - 10:21 PM

So sorry we seemed to be picking on you, Fred. There are some kinder, gentler threads to drop in around Mudcat when looking to see what people are doing. The BS: stay out of trouble thread (stay afloat) thread is an excellent example (this is a second iteration since thread length is a thing we have to be careful about now, or they vanish from sight). The knives are sometimes pretty sharp over here in the UK politics thread (though probably better than the guns in some of the US political discussions). Over on the stay out of trouble thread you're liable to find commiseration, helpful suggestions, and occasional recipes. Give it a read (and there is a link to the much older longer thread in the first post).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 29 Sep 25 - 06:52 AM

Stilly,

That's ok :)



I'll be away awhile as there's much to do in a short time. But, unfortunately, I'll be back before you know it :)

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Sep 25 - 12:29 PM

" But in this day and age to come into a political thread and discuss not voting, well, that's a head-scratcher." quote
A number of people do not vote, as a protest, or because none of the candidates are what they want to vote for. what is a head scratcher about that, it is quite clear.
lets face it if 95 percent of the people refused to vote, that would mean politicians were elected by only 5 per cent of the population, hardly a mandate to govern.
Perhaps the non voters have realised that they are represented only in name, but ELECTION CANDIDATES firstly represent the corporations that sponsor their campaigns

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 30 Sep 25 - 03:03 PM

If I hadn't mentioned that I don't vote, there wouldn't have been comments about it.

If you post in a public thread, as I did, you have to expect and accept others will pick up on it. Why shouldn't they?

I've no problem with it, just that at the time I wasn't thinking straight.

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Oct 25 - 04:00 AM

https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/andrew-visited-epstein-on-childrens-charity-trip?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-gb link to article in Observer newspaper

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Oct 25 - 12:26 PM

Well, the Tories have upped the ante- at their Conference. From their usual Three Word Slogan, they’ve gone seriously up-market, and have a Four Word Slogan! That’ll have the voters running to the polling-stations…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 07 Oct 25 - 01:08 PM

> Four Word Slogan

That's just inflation*.

* 7.45% per annum, compounded over five years.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Oct 25 - 01:18 PM

ROTFLMAO!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Oct 25 - 01:25 PM

Farage is very cunning, stealing a policy from Corbyn about water nationalisation.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 03:27 AM

Water was nationalised in the 1940s. I don't think Corbyn came up with the policy as he was only born in 1949.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 07:22 AM

Farage isn't cunning: he's opportunistic. He'd flog any policy as long as it fell off the back of a lorry.

By the bye, I understand* that those with the same surname (found in quite a small area of the country) usually pronounce it as if it was spelt "Farridge". Is the [redacted] attempting to impress Hyacinth Bucket?

* Peter Trudgill's "On Language" column in New European World.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 09:10 AM

First and foremost, the attack on a Manchester synagogue last week was dreadful. What I am seeing as a backlash does not make sense to me though. I am sure that antisemitism is still rife but I do not see it being as obvious as other forms of racism. I cannot open the news or social media without seeing awful comments about Muslims or "boat people". The only hate I see towards any Jewish people is about the Zionist genocide in Gaza. What am I missing? Is antisemitism really on an upsurge or are the Zionist apologists just putting up a smokescreen? I really don't know

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 10:03 AM

I don't hold with all this racism nonsense. If someone is kind to others, that's all I care about and I'd be proud to call 'em a friend.

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 10:19 AM

Dave Polshaw
at the present time water is privatised in the uk, Corbyn has been talking about rentionalising it, farage after criticising Corbyn for taking about nationalising it, has now done a u turn

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 10:37 AM

It doesn't look like a backlash to me, DtG: more an excuse. It doesn't have to make sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 10:54 AM

Agreed, Fred, but these people are not being kind and I don't understand why.

Good point MaJoC. It doesn't have to make sense but if we understood why these people are making excuses then we may be able to address whatever issues they have in a more positive way.

Dick, my point is that Faeage is not, as you put it, "stealing a policy from Corbyn about water nationalisation". Corbyn did not invent water nationalism. He is not the first to come up with renationalisation either. Farage is a grifter and will say anything that he thinks may be possible. If you are going to argue against him you need to get the facts right and the fact is that Corbyn is only one of a long line of people who believe that our water supply should not be in the hands of big business.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 12:18 PM

talk about pedantic

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 12:27 PM

i never said that Corbyn was first to come up with the idea of WATER NATIONALISATION, but in the present uk parliament, it has been one of his policies, so my acts are right, FARAGE is stealing a policy that Corbyn has suggested in the LAST 8YEARS, here is a link sky news,
https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-jeremy-corbyns-water-vow-could-be-costly-11078116
Dave, its not over til the fat woman has sung

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 01:13 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman - PM
Date: 07 Oct 25 - 01:25 PM

Farage is very cunning, stealing a policy from Corbyn about water nationalisation.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman - PM
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 12:27 PM

i never said that Corbyn was first to come up with the idea of WATER NATIONALISATION, but in the present uk parliament, it has been one of his policies, so my acts are right, FARAGE is stealing a policy that Corbyn has suggested in the LAST 8YEARS

Talk about back peddaling...

How on earth can Farage steal something from Corbyn when it never belonged to Corbyn in the first place?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Oct 25 - 12:28 AM

Water nationalisation is also a policy of the Green party,so Farage is stealing a policy advocated by Corbyn but also one advocated by the Greens.
Hopefully MY AMENDED STATEMENT this will satisfy pedants and nit picking, point scorers

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 25 - 03:12 AM

They advocate the same policy would be far better. No-one has stolen anything. But thanks for trying anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Oct 25 - 04:41 AM

I am afraid you are misinformed, Farage   previously criticised Corbyn for wanting to reintroduce water nationalisation, Farage is now advocating it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Oct 25 - 06:23 AM

Incorrect spelling of Britain by Tories, LINK to the Guardian, a certain irony here, as the Guardian was once renowned for incorrect spelling. now all i need is our in house pedant to correct me.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/06/conservative-party-misspell-britain-conference-chocolate-bar

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Oct 25 - 06:24 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/06/conservative-party-misspell-britain-conference-chocolate-bar

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Oct 25 - 07:31 AM

There are no rules preventing politicians from changing their minds.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 25 - 07:49 AM

Who is misinformed and why, Dick?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Oct 25 - 12:08 PM

Jeremy Corbyn
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Jeremy_Corbyn
Taking the party to the left, Corbyn advocated renationalising public utilities and railways
Reform would nationalise half of water industry, says Nigel ...
The Telegraph
https://www.telegraph.co.uk › politics › 2025/07/20 › r...
20 Jul 2025 — Nigel Farage has vowed to nationalise half of the water industry by striking a deal with the private sector.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Oct 25 - 12:14 PM

22 Nov 2019, 09:30 Updated: 22 Nov 2019
Share
"Nasty and filled with jealousy": Nigel Farage criticises Labour manifesto
Nigel Farage criticises "nasty" Labour manifesto

Nigel Farage labelled the Labour manifesto as "nasty" and "filled with jealousy" as he prepared to unveil the Brexit Party's pledges for the general election.

Jeremy Corbyn unveiled his plan for the next five years, including scrapping tuition fees, big pay rises for the public sector and the nationalisation a number of utilities including trains and broadband.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 25 - 01:15 PM

So, Who is misinformed and why, Dick?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Oct 25 - 02:34 AM

You are right, whatever you say.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Oct 25 - 02:53 AM

did you ever hear tell of johnny gray, he died defending his right of way, he was right dead right all the way, but he died all right at the end of the day.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Oct 25 - 03:17 AM

So, Who is misinformed and why, Dick? :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Oct 25 - 04:32 AM

"There are no rules preventing politicians from changing their minds."Correct, but in Farages case, I think it is a populist move,purely TO GAIN VOTES,now if Starmer was a bit more clever he would steal Farages thunder, and do the same, instead of getting himself thrown out of the houses of parliament for making a personal attack on Farage, if Farage moves to the left so should starmer, all he has to do is nationalise half the water companies, and he has seen off the Greens Corbyn and Farage
Harold Wilson would have done that . lets turn off the lights and have a seance, and bring him back

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 11 Oct 25 - 04:49 AM

Farage is very cunning, stealing a policy from Corbyn about water nationalisation.



... if Farage moves to the left so should starmer, all he has to do is nationalise half the water companies, ...

Are you saying that Starmer should steal his policies from Farage?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Oct 25 - 06:55 AM

Doug - :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Oct 25 - 07:59 AM

from Corbyn who came up withe idea first, after water had been privatised . ok in house pedant

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Oct 25 - 04:50 PM

Doug Chadwick ,I dont like Farage stealing policies that might get him elected, You along with dave the gnome seem more concerned about scoring points.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Oct 25 - 02:29 PM

For goodness’ sake…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Oct 25 - 03:04 PM

No point scoring involved here. Just trying to get to the facts. To paraphrase the Bee Gees

It's only words, but words are all you have
To make your points on here... :-D

If you don't want any comebacks, make sure you get the details right!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Oct 25 - 05:47 PM

my facts are right, water was privatised nearly a quarter of a century ago. Corbyn started talking about water nationalisation, Farage is now talking about it.