North Yorkshire Folk gone

Subject: Nortt Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 11:00 AM

Michael Brothwell has left York for pastures new and the two hour programme on radio North Yorkshire, "North Yorkshire Folk" appears to have disappeared with him. This may be due to the new station manager Sarah Drummond not liking folk music, can't say for sure. This show was particularly important because it featured local performers and showcased the up and coming as well as some of the more established pro's. There is a show on for two hours on Wednesday evening called "North Yorkshire Folk" but it's "not folk as we know it Jim" it's, what I believe is termed, "easy listening". So you guys out there I would be pleased if you could e-mail (address below) the station manager and ask for our prog back....please
cheers
Peter

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: Gedpipes
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 12:22 PM

Hi Stallion
Give us a precise form of words and I'm sure folk will be pleased to help with a cut and paste job.
Cheers
Ged

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: John J
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 12:59 PM

The excellent BBC Radio Manchester folk programme, run by Alio & Bernard, stopped a while back. The powers-that-be prefer mindless talk-shows or equally mindless football commentary.

Talk about dumbing down.

I emailed the station manager who saw fit not to reply.

JJ

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: Rasener
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 01:07 PM

One of the only decent 2 hour folk programs left thats live these days would seem to be Folkwaves which Mick Peat & Lester Simpson present on a Monday night 7 to 9.
It can be listened to on the internet, so it doesn't matter where you live in the UK.

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 06:04 PM

Sarah Drummond e-mailed back and asked for my phone number so we could talk, well, it's a start, I hope. In the mean time try.

[e-mail]

Please will "North Yorkshire Folk", Wednesdays 7 - 9, return to playing local, new and different performers along with mainstream folk? As opposed to the easy listening music of last week.

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 06:05 PM

PS One can get this program on-line

cheers
Peter

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 06:31 AM

Email sent
Cheers
ged

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: DebC
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 01:19 PM

Wow. It's happening over there as well. I was interviewed by Michael last Autumn when I was over and he was so nice and enthusiastic about my music.

I'll be emailing Ms. Drummond as well. I bet she'll be surprised to hear from someone across the pond.

Debra
www.DebraCowan.com

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 03:16 PM

cheers Deb, hope to see you in October when we are over
I am going to offer to do it myself, I used to work for the station shortly after it opened as an exceedingly green sports reporter (I was useless!)It's better than losing it.
Peter

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST,Guest in Yorkshire
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 04:25 PM

I've e-mailed Sarah Drummond and received a reply...which didn't say very much. There's also a thread on this topic over at the radio 2 Folk and Acoustic message board.

I sure hope other people will email Sarah Drummond to express their views and to exert some pressure!

Apart from great presentation, North Yorkshire Folk had a local events guide, frequent guesting from local musicians or else people in town to play, lots of airplay of great demos that you'd never learn of otherwise,slots with local poets and also few american roots tracks each week. Even if the show will continue with changes, I think that those basic ingredients were crucial.

Overall, it was great community radio--serving two communities--North Yorkshire itself , but also folk music fans all over (not just in the UK). (You could find out more by googling to find the piece on this in today's Black Swan Folk Club newsletter when that's on the web).
Radio York claims that listening figures were low and that it was a niche show. (Scheduling for such a niche to coincide with Mike Harding was a strange decision...) The niche stretched across the globe, though!

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: Tootler
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 04:44 PM

It is very sad that an organisation like the BBC which is supposed to be providing a public service using our license money has no room for a "niche show".

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: skipy
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:13 PM

Sad that we lose a radio prog, but give it a year (or less) & we will have lost a lot of venues due to the smoking ban, not because the "folkies" don't smoke, but because the pub will not survive the rest of the week. I WANT to be wrong, but google a few randon works such as smoking ban Ireland Scotland Canada Wales close pub etc. etc.
Skipy

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 05:20 AM

Well, I have to say I have received a Confidential E-Mail from Sarah, don't think I will be betraying a confidence if I were to say that whilst a folk show of some sorts is not dead and buried the two hour slot on Wednesdays and the format, as was, is there only in name and not in substance. Sad.
Someone had said they had heard us get a mention one Sunday afternoon on Radio York, strange for a Sunday, it would be fanciful to think that Michael may have chosen "The Parting Glass" from our cd to play himself out, Michael was such a brilliant supporter of local performers it would be just the sort of thing he might have done, dunno, I'll ask him.

Peter

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST,in York
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 05:32 AM

I'm still hoping that more people writing in might have some influence.

Word from the grapevine was that there had only been three e-mails on this topic as of last Thursday.
(Hint to any mudcatters *anywhere* who've listened in or had your tracks played?)

'Niche' broadcasting and supporting local artists seem to me exactly what a publicly funded local radio station should be doing! I'll write again to remind them.

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: HipflaskAndy
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 04:25 PM

Michael Brothwell gone?
What a loss!
The young man had a real passion for folk and (single-handedly) kept a most vibrant show on the go there at Beeb York for a good stint!
He was green as grass initially - but his drive and enthusiasm for a genre he obviously loved got him up and running
and he soon had a cracking standard of show on the go.
I wish him all the very best in his new pastures...
and sincerely hope the BeebYork management see sense and find a gem (like MB) as a replacement, soonest.
How sad another regional prog has (I pray, temporarily) bit the dust.
I urge folks to inundate the email address given above to register discontent at the current situation
- for one thing, to show that there are considerable numbers out here that would like such a programme back on the air!
Cheers - Duncan McFarlane

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 01:30 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 04:12 PM

c'mon folks get those e-mails in

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 03:58 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST,Monkstew
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 10:58 AM

I fear that it was Micheal who made the programme work. As with most other "local" listenable folk programmes such as those fronted by Frank Hennessey, Column Sands, Phil Brown, Archie Fisher, and Johnny Coppin, they all reflect the 'style' of the presenter. But yes, send in the emails of support, maybe they will be effective.

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST,SteveP
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 06:05 AM

I have emailed too (no reply yet). Last week's show was awful, and next week's is going to be on the theme of film music, so no folk there then.

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:21 AM

Are we dumb or something, an insider has told me (Radio York) that they have only received three e-mails complaining that the show has changed/off air. So, we are not working hard enough or they are lying through their back teeth. So that's Me, Martin and Tony and ...mudcatters everywhere, they are telling porkies.
peter

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: DebC
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 09:56 AM

Just sent off my email, Peter.

Deb
www.DebraCowan.com

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: Pistachio
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 03:18 PM

My email has gone too.
Hazel.

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 07:46 PM

cheers

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST,Geoff Wright
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 11:31 AM

Some Mudcatters have short memories. Henry Ayrton's excellent programme was the previous incarnation which was broadcast on all the Northern local radio stations and like North Yorkshire Folk, specialised in live guests with much interesting detail about what instruments they were playing etc. It was a great loss, was axed without notice, to be replaced by the dire Raw Talent (sic).

I listened to every single broadcast of NYF and although I sent a complaint or two to MB in the early days, it was usually praise if I emailed him. He shaped it into a proper "Trad" folk programme which, to say it clashed with someone elses "Folk" (sic) programme, had world-appeal - Twangfest was brilliant. It even dared to feature a resident poet

I had seen the danger signs about a month previous. NYF was at the top of the Listen-Again list (as is Radio Derbys Folkwaves), when it suddenly changed its listing to "Michael Brothwells North Yorkshire Folk" so in alphabetical order, it was at the bottom of the list and you had to scroll down to find it. I emailed MB to ask what was going on but got no reply.
This week, the listing merely says "Folk", so there is no intention to make it of local interest. Isn't that a waste of the listeners money by her own definition?

I appeal to you all to make your views known to Ms Drummond to start doing her job by either changing the name of the programme, or get someone else to host a proper Folk programme with local appeal which NYK was.
Dont forget -

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 11:38 AM

cheers Geoff

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 02:37 PM

Going going gone.

Just turned off the radio.

Now it's called music box, stuff you could hear anywhere. Nothing local, nothing folk.

I second all of Geoff Wright's comments above; have written in... Please mudcatters, if you ever listened, had your CD played, or had your club's gigs announced, write to [e-mail] and tell her this is a mistake.

You can also text the muzak box presenter Sandy Dunleavey (she doesn't seem to have e-mail) 07786 0 3000 (hope I caught that right).

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 06:59 PM

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 03:51 AM

a message sent to that bounced back-checking, I think it's sandie.dunleavy@

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST,Folk - independent audit
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 06:15 AM

As an independant audit, I made the non-musician missus listen to 30 mins. of the aforementioned aural-pap last night, on the way to a sesh.
She described the programme as having no format, mainly featuring 70s and 80s tracks, all of which were described as favorites of the rather annoying presentrix, who was best described as being in need of a personality transplant.

So in summary, the unknown presenter waffled, the programme seemed to have no name and certainly no theme.

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: Allan Price
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 11:10 AM

I couldn't possibly criticise my colleague from York. If I want to listen to Simon and Garfunkel, Buddy Holly, Elvis, Booker T and the MGs and the Beatles I know exactly which folk programme to listen to.

Meanwhile don't forget there's a different sort of folk from Genevieve Tudor every Sunday night on BBC Radio Shropshire, streaming live on the net and on Listen Again all through the week.

And if you value folk on the radio, write and tell us before it's gone. When the station manager has decided to change the schedules, you won't get the show back.

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 02:18 PM

I asked Michael what was the last song he played - Matty Groves

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: philmco
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 06:42 PM

Hello

Keep up the good work.

Camers guy

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 04:31 AM

Has anyone had any positive replies from any e-mails yet?

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST,SteveP
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 01:28 PM

No reply at all, despite my more than generous offer to do the gig guide myself.

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST,in York
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 03:00 PM

I had a most unsatisfactory reply citing low listening figures (but no evidence), niche market and overlap with the MH show plus some vague implications about the future.

Wrote back to ask whether the station supported community arts at all, whether they had a commitment to local community and to urge them to reinstate events diary, poet, twangfest and play of real folk music and non-mass produced stuff...

No further reply.... yet.
Let's keep the pressure on.

Anyone out there who ever listened, had your event listed, or your CD played, please tell

Sarah [e-mail] and [e-mail]

that the late lamented North Yorkshire Folk was terrific and should be restored, not 'replaced' with something else available elsewhere and with no connection to Yorkshire.

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone to the dogs
From: GUEST,Geoff Wright
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 02:44 PM

I got the same (cut and pasted?) reply with a brief mention about a new programme on 9th May. I await with baited breath and will keep on at them if the replacement is not up to scratch.

1) How can Folk be a niche broadcast if MH broadcasts at exactly the same time?

2) Why pick Wednesday when Thursday was the ideal evening as proved by Henry Ayrton and the 6 or 8 other local radio stations that broadcasted him (they obviously didn't think it was a niche program)?

3) Who is Sandy Dunleavy and why does she think she can host a programme prominently advertised as "North Yorkshire Folk" on Radio Yorks own website, when she obviously knows nothing about local folk music and what is happening in the area?.

I am already suffering from Twangfest withdrawal syndrome.

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 03:18 PM

The reply I got to my email complaining of NYF's demise can be summarised as follows:
The programme's future was reviewed as a result of Michael moving on.

It was a 'niche' programme and as such got low listening figures.( Who do they poll for this I wonder?)

It was competing with Mike Hardings Radio 2 slot. ( Why on earth did they do this inept piece of programming?)
Finding an appropriate replacement for Michael will be very difficult.

A new programme ( no mention of folk) is being brought in on Weds ( May 9th is the first).

There is some vague promise to look at programming folk into the NY schedule, but it is under negotiation.....

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST,guest in Yorkshire
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 03:45 PM

I've also gotten a reply from Sarah Drummond today , mentioning many of the same things that Mary's reply (see above) seemd to contain, but it did seem as if there was an intention to bring back some coverage of *North Yorkshire * folk, though at another time and perhaps another format.

(What could be better than MH's old slot, at 8 pm on Wednesday??)

So once again I'm appealing to others who listened to the show, had their music played, or their events announced, to write in and also encourage others to make their views known...

address to write to is:
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST,SteveP
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 03:09 AM

My reply (same as the others above) arrived yesterday.

Do their listening figures include "listen again" people I wonder?

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST,SteveP
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 09:57 AM

Apparently last night they announced that a new, proper, folk show would be starting soon.

Anyone know anything about it? Was anyone listening???

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone downhill
From: GUEST,Geoff Wright
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 12:02 PM

The tireless Roland wrote two interesting bits on the Black Swan homepage which are very relevant.

FAREWELL & THANKS, MICHAEL BROTHWELL. Sadly, Michael Brothwell broadcast his last edition of North Yorkshire Folk on Radio York at the end of March. Due to developing business interests in Leeds he had wanted to move on for some time, and I sure we all wish him well. In the two years he had been on air, Michael created one of the best local radio specialist music shows in a very long time. A "natural" broadcaster and a great enthusiast for folk music in all its forms, he gave generous support to the local music scene across the county.
Locally-based performers were heavily featured in studio sessions, interviews and record play, with Michael displaying a rare ability to unearth new and interesting artists. In particular, he made common ground between the older-established folk scene, based around clubs and festivals, and the younger generation of acoustic musicians sometimes dubbed "new folk". Even someone like myself, immersed in this business for over 25 years, discovered someone or something unfamiliar and enjoyable almost every week. The show rapidly became essential listening, and when it was extended to two hours, in direct competition with Mike Harding on Radio 2, it was the national station that lost out, so far as many were concerned!
Highlights were numerous, but I would single out the "Auden & Folk" programme, based around last year's event in York. This was a masterly mix of concert footage, percipient interviews and modest narration which I feel could have easily merited a repeat on a national radio channel such as Radio 2 or even Radio 3 or 4. Nor should we forget the "Song for North Yorkshire" competition, which proved far more successful than we first anticipated in encouraging and promoting local songwriting talent.

WHERE NOW FOR LOCAL RADIO FOLK? So what happens next on Radio York? Although Michael gave his bosses generous notice of his departure, no great steps seem to have been taken to seek out an alternative presenter. The 7pm slot on Wednesday 4 April was filled by one of the station's regular broadcasters. True, our own Stan Graham had been drafted in at the last minute to chat with her, but they were limited to playing CD tracks with, it seemed, a brief to be as "safe" and "mainstream" as possible. There wasn't even a diary of upcoming events. This was hardly local radio in any true sense. I gave up at 8pm and re-tuned to Mike Harding on Radio 2! If you want to express your concerns and try to find out what is going on, I suggest you contact BBC Radio York's Managing Editor, Sara Drummond, on [e-mail].

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST,redmax
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:17 AM

Another email sent, for what's it's worth

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 06:39 AM

Well, folks it isn't time to give up but I think time to work with Sarah on this one, I think we ought to let her know what we miss and what we like and when we would like it, that would give some basis for a future programme. I also take the point with Genevieve Tudor and her programme, indeed I will send her a copy of our cd, but it's a shame when a large county like ours can be outdone by a small county like Shropshire, it doesn't half stick in the craw.

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST,I have lost the will to live
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 12:37 PM

How many folk songs are there in James Bond movies?
Don't know?

Then listen to "Folk" on Radio York. You won't find out, but that was the theme for last Wednesdays programme (with an interview with the Oyster Band somewhere along the lines, just so the pedants couldn't accuse her of not playing ANY folk). Why won't they tell the truth?

Even Mike Harding has the grace to call his programme Folk & Roots, respecting the fact that not all his tracks are Folk.

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: mamegann
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 01:26 PM

I've emailed Sarah, and replied to her response, as follows. Polite, don't you think? I'll let you know if she responds.

Don't you think that in this day and age, Internet listeners should be included in ratings? BBC has done a tremendous job with its online service, so they should take international listeners seriously.

Adele

"Thank you for getting back to me. You say that Michael has moved on. To where? I would love to hear him again.

"Too bad that Michael's show was scheduled so poorly. I actually preferred his show to the BBC2 show, but since I listen on the Internet, that didn't affect me. Even thought I live far away, I found the regionality of Michael's show particularly charming. I enjoyed hearing about the goings-on at the Black Swan. I can imagine how much more vital that information would be to people living in England.

"By the way, Sandie's show is not a folk song, rather a pop show. I hope that the new show that you are contemplating will actually be a folk music show that supports the dynamic York folk scene. If Michael unfortunately cannot be involved, I hope that you will include the gentlemen who performed poetry and hosted Twangfest."

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 10:47 PM

Isn't it just amazing what havoc one person can wreak on other people's lives?

Does anyone know how many similar instances of upheaval with folk progs. have occurred on local BBC radio stations?

Would it help the cause if such a list was available to throw at the BBC?

I'm so lucky where I live, I have Clare FM which broadcasts trad music every weeknight from 7pm - 9pm. Check it out!

http://www.clarefm.ie/

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 06:06 AM

Michael is working full time on opening a Brewery in Leeds, I think once that is up and running and perhaps has a number of pubs we may see him promoting "Folk" music, in inverted comma's because he was prepared to give new performers/ new interpretation's a go. As for broadcasting I have run at least one idea past Michael that he liked and one never knows he might be tempted to participate in another show some time in the future.

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: Bernard
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 06:33 AM

All is not lost, y'know...

There are lots of 'Community Radio' stations springing up thanks to an Ofcom initiative.

JJ mentioned above that Alio and I used to produce a programme for BBC GMR, but the station ditched everything 'Manchester' (apart from 'sport') and reverted to the 'Radio Manchester' name.

However, Oldham Community Radio was awarded a five year full-time community radio licence by Ofcom on Octoder 6th 2005, and Station Manager David McGealy asked Ali and I to continue our programme on the new station.

We are live from 7.00pm to 8.00pm on Monday evenings, and the station can also be accessed (live only at the moment) on the net via the station's website.

Salford Community Radio will be on air in the near future, and they will also be running folk music in with the other 'programme strands'. Swinton Folk Club are likely to be involved, and they have also asked Alio and I to contribute.

If the BBC wishes to turn its corporate back on folk, so what? It's their loss, because we have plenty of other avenues opening for us - have you visited Radio Britfolk yet?

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: stallion
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 06:05 PM

ooo d'you think we would get funding for Radio Free South Bank, use Terrys clock as the mast, Steve and Ruth's back shed for a studio!

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 05:30 PM

We-e-e-ell, we do record 'Sounds of Folk' for Radio Britfolk in me attic...!

Subject: RE: North Yorkshire Folk gone but not forgotten
From: GUEST,Geoff Wright
Date: 01 May 07 - 11:32 AM

Jim Martin enquires if any other local radio folk programme has witnessed such upheaval?
Yes, Radio York lost its previous folk programme some years back which was broadcast to most local radio stations in the North of England, which is why MBNYF was such a breath of fresh air, if only short-lived.
Long Live Clare FM as a shining example of how to treat local folk musicians (have a programme every evening). I work from home so listen to it every day.

I enquired from Sarah Drummond how the popularity ratings of "niche" programmes such as MBNYF are calculated. No answer was forthcoming.
I enquired from the presenter of another nearby radio folk programme (who shall remain anon), and was told they had no idea how it is ascertained. Probably at the whim of a radio station director.