BS: Spring Arrives in Kansas: A Blast

Subject: BS: Spring Arrives in Kansas: A Blast
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 May 07 - 03:52 PM

An unusually strong group of storm cells moved through Kansas yesterday (May 4, 2007) and spawned a tornado that has literally (I might say litter-ally) wiped out the small town of Greensburg. (About 1,600 population.)

While Kansas doesn't actually have more tornados than some other (mostly nearby) areas, this one was unusually strong and damaging.

Fortunately, good warnings were provided by National Weather Service and by Radio and TV, resulting in an almost astonishingly small number of injuries. Various reports place the death toll at 7 to 9, and "in the vicinity" of 50 or so injured. (A sheriff's deputy reported killed in the MSNBC report still up at this time was critically injured but is in a Wichita hospital, giving an indication of the uncertainty of all that happened.)

Comments by those in the area indicate 90 percent of homes damaged to the point of being "unoccupiable" and 60 percent or more of the "business district" is demolished.

Local TV in Wichita preempted normal broadcasting to carry full time reports and warnings at about 5 pm yesterday, some 4 hours before the tornado reached Greensburg.

At one point, a mobile reporter, using a satellite phone because all land-line and cell phone communications were out, had reached the outskirts of the town and said "the motel on the west side is gone."

When the local TV "communicator" asked him to describe the motel that was destroyed, he made an innocuous answer to the effect of "it's no longer where it was the last time I was in Greensburg"

During the "pregnant pause" preceding his answer, I thought I heard what he wanted to say as:

"Read-my-lips you dumb shit.

I said the f***g motel is GONE
,

as in ... IT ... IS ... NOT ... THERE ... ANY ...MORE!

(Photos indicate my interpretation was justified.)

Web reports at
9 killed when tornado hits Kansas. (There is a photo slide show, but I haven't looked at it yet.)

Currently, a small areas is under NOAA/NWS severe thunderstorm warning with 1" hail reported, and a slightly larger area under severe thunderstorm watch, with cells that may be capable of more severe weather as the sun goes down.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spring Arrives in Kansas: A Blast
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 May 07 - 04:46 PM

For those who want to see what it looks like, if you click on the "Slide Show" at the link above, you get a "Flash" show. OK if you like flash.

If you just click on the central picture at the story, you get "related images" that can be individually enlarged (and saved as .jpg if you want), and there appear to be a few more pictures than in the Flash pitch.

Additional warning/watch areas as of 15:40 local time, but thus far nothing in our immediate area that's too threatening, or elsewhere that at present is likely to threaten populated areas.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spring Arrives in Kansas: A Blast
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 May 07 - 05:54 PM

That's incredible, John. Glad you are safe.

Subject: RE: BS: Spring Arrives in Kansas: A Blast
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 May 07 - 06:12 PM

The report currently on my TV is saying the town was about a half-mile wide and a mile long. The funnel apparently was 3/4 mile wide and went dead center through the length of the town.

This afternoon, another cell strong enough to merit a "watch" followed almost exactly the same path, and cleared the former town about a half hour ago.

(They seem to be coming from Texas. If those folk don't exporting their trash to the rest of the country, they're liable to get a reputation.)

Latest death count is back to 9, last I heard. A couple of erroneous reports corrected, but a couple of others found. Injuries now up to around 76(?) in various hospitals, including 4 or 5 transported to Wichita. Extremely fortunate, or reflecting unusually good warning and response, that a town of 1600 got by with that few in either category.

We're (Wichita) about 110 miles east of there, and haven't seen anything worth noting, and nothing really expected; although we can expect to hear lots of warnings from the media for at least a couple of days now that everyone's properly nervous.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spring Arrives in Kansas: A Blast
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 May 07 - 07:23 PM

Aren't you folks in a sort of "dugout"(**bg**) i.e. built into the side of a hill? I seem to recall a beautiful description of such with foxes and other wild critters wandering about. It left a lingering, vivid memory. If that's the case, you would be safer than most if Texas decides to blow up another, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Spring Arrives in Kansas: A Blast
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 May 07 - 08:05 PM

I'm afraid we're pretty much in the wide open flats as far as exposure is concerned. The house might basically be called a "ranch style," but with multiple add-ons by previous occupants it's ceased to have the "boxcar" look that's typical for that style and now suggests more of a train wreck.

Wichita is built sort of on the side of a hill, although you have to look pretty hard to detect it from ground level. I think the elevation range for the city is about 100 feet or so, and we are sort of on the high side of town.

We do have a couple of families of transient mallards that wander through the neighborhood regularly. They seem to be year-around residents. 'Possums are far too plentiful. Cottontails and squirrels are pretty abundant.

Our real weather concern is the five 60+ year old elm trees (very brittle) and four ~50 y.o. oaks on the lot, that loom over everything and frequently drop large chunks when the weather changes. Damocles comes to mind, but they're too big to remove conveniently, and too old to be easily maintained in "safe" condition.

Perhaps of interest:

National Weather Service, US gives an overall view of what's going on in the US as a whole.

If you zoom in on the Kansas area, at NWS Warnings you can see what's going on now in our vicinity or a bit west of us where most of today's bad stuff is.

Dodge City KS Doppler Radar gives the really informative look at wind velocities – where adjacent red/green indicates wind shears likely to spawn tornado weather. (Wichita may show on the map briefly while it loads, but gets covered by the "legend" at the right edge.)

Actual confirmation of a tornado usually comes only when it's seen by spotters on the ground. There have been a half-dozen or more "confirmed" today, but none that stayed down long or appear to have caused significant damage. All of the cells of interest are in the ones shown today (so far) in the Dodge City area.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spring Arrives in Kansas: A Blast
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 May 07 - 09:36 PM

Mr's mom lives in Winfield, 50 miles south of Wichita, but she is visting us just now. Hope she doesn't go home to a mess. Stay safe, John, Lin, and all other Tornado Alley catters.

Subject: RE: BS: Spring Arrives in Kansas: A Blast
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 May 07 - 09:48 PM

The Winfield area is included in the radar scan area from the Wichita doppler:

NWS Radar SE KS

Winfield doesn't show on this map, but she'd know about where it is, sort of east of Ark City.

It looks like the weather is pretty pleasant there, much like Wichita at the moment; but of course there's always tomorrow.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spring Arrives in Kansas: A Blast
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 May 07 - 04:18 PM

Sorcha -

Todays weather reports are pushing "flood warnings" because of lots of water dumped by numerous thundrstorm cells in our part of the state. Your mister's mom might have reason to be concerned if your local news has mentioned the warnings.

As of now, however, the NOAA Hydrological Report for the Walnut River at Winfield shows the river below 6 feet on the chart, and flood stage is at 18 feet, so the dam north of Emporia would have to burst to pose a hazard at Winfield.

Something around 11 - 13 feet or so is where the fairground begins to go under, and the town is safe for a good bit past that, so no cause for concern.

(This NOAA site is a mandatory check point before leaving for WVA every year. The local news doesn't necessarily give the "real story.")

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spring Arrives in Kansas: A Blast
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 May 07 - 04:38 PM

Not necessarily the Emporia dam, John. Winfield has that dike, remember? The Walnut often floods but to my knowledge it has never breached the dike. Came within a foot of the top once, but mom's house is a long ways from the river, and they have re designed Bliss Street(the one that had the 4' concrete walls for flood flow...you could canoe on it!) so we're not much worried about floods. Just wind.

Subject: RE: BS: Spring Arrives in Kansas: A Blast
From: Bill D
Date: 06 May 07 - 09:05 PM

Oh, my...I have been thru Greensburg many times on the way West. It used to feature as a tourist attraction, "The World's largest hand-dug well".

This reminds me of the huge (F5) tornado that hit another small town (Udall) near Wichita 52 years ago...no fancy radar then, and many deaths.

Small towns, especially when they are on a major highway, like Greensburg, can rebuild.....I hope those folks will find a way.

Subject: RE: BS: Spring Arrives in Kansas: A Blast
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 May 07 - 01:48 AM

I've been wondering about the news reports that the well was "destroyed." It seems to me it would take a lot - even of tornado force - to suck a hundred foot deep hole out of the ground.

I think they're conceding that the hole is still there, but don't know how much "fill" got in. The water tower and gift shop of course were totalled. The well itself appears to be covered with several feet of debris, and of course isn't a priority until they get the cell phones turned back on.

Local news says that lots of the people are intending to return and rebuild; but it's hard to say how that determination will hold up. With Dodge City only a dozen miles away, migration might be easier for lots of them. Small towns in the area average 15 - 25 miles apart, so there are several that probably could absorb quite a few, and any who take up residence nearby while rebuilding may decide to settle where they find a roost.

One thing many may have to consider is that there's no possibility of continuing schooling there, so any with kids will need to find (probably move to) somewhere that can absorb the kids - lest any be "left behind."

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spring Arrives in Kansas: A Blast
From: leeneia
Date: 07 May 07 - 10:15 AM

I agree John, that it may not be worth it to rebuild Greensburg. It has lost its schools, city hall, churches and hospital.

However, anyone who bought a house and has a mortgage is still the owner of the wreckage and the land, now useless. They still owe a bank many thousands. What will be done about that?

I was in Wichita the day it happened. Now I'm in Kansas City. It has been raining almost nonstop for 18 hours.

Attention anybody in Kansas City. This is not the day to go down Mission Road.