Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: GUEST,me
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 09:02 AM

I agree with the guest about respecting the man, I mean you lot haven't told any racist,sexist,homophobic jokes in your lives have you, by god you must be nuns and monks or friends of the pope.

so in other words you and your friends on the mudcat cafe haven't told a racist,sexist or homophobic joke in your lives, so how I don't believe that.

ME

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: GUEST,no one
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 09:06 AM

Whatch what you're saying guest Me and ANTI PC and mine, because there is no use arguing with these people they are don't want to listen people and there views, it either they're way or no way.

after life is a joke, if it wasn't you would be a greeting face git.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: guitar
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 09:07 AM

i think you meant after all life is a Joke

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: GUEST,Canadienne
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 09:08 AM

to guests anti pc and me,
Not only do you fail to answer my questions posted at 8.55 but you bear a remarkable similarity in your posting style!
Maybe you just like talking to yourself?

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Nick
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 09:08 AM

>>I wonder how these people that hate Bernard Manning would feel if someone went to their family or friends and found out that they were dead...

Surely if you were dead you wouldn't go visiting people?

Unless you were a ghost, of course, but that's probably yet another topic.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: GUEST,scot
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 09:37 AM

GUEST,Canadienne

The man was of a time when those things were thought off as funny, but the man is dead, if you can't show him respect then show respect for his family

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: GUEST,scot
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 09:43 AM

GUEST,Canadienne

And you and your friends haven't told a racist, sexist or homophobic joke in your lives, you must lead very clean lives then.
please tell this isn't so or you and your friends are nuns and monks or waitng in line for the pope's job or the new virgin Mary

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: guitar
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 09:44 AM

scot,

that is a very anti catholic joke now

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: GUEST,Canadienne
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 09:52 AM

Would some clone please sory out this sorry multi-personality guest scot/me or whoever who is now quoting his/her own posts while obviously failing to read that I take no pleasure in this man's death and is still unable/unwilling to answer my question - how do you show respect without condoning his behaviour?

Actually Bernard Manning came from the same generation as myself scot (or whatever you're calling yourself now) but I never found him funny as I'm sure those he humilated publicly did not either.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: GUEST,forget
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 09:53 AM

all of you that didn't like bernard manning are just all a bunch of hypocrites everyone of you

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 09:54 AM

Blimey. Get a few Bernard Manning fans in and just watch the level of debate plummet! :-D

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: guitar
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 09:57 AM

I don't think that these guest are fans of Bernard Manning, because they didn't say so.

look let's forget what is said, let bygones be bygones.

I have never said that I was a fan of his.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: GUEST,Canadienne
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 09:57 AM

More like one "fan" who shares his out dated nasty viewpoints Steve.

If there is to be a "rule" about using one guest name per thread can we please see it enforced with more regularity?

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: guitar
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:02 AM

what's the point, you are never going to answer the question are you

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: guitar
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:03 AM

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: guitar
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:09 AM

RIP

at the end I didn't like his jokes either but he was a fellow human being

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Mann
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:20 AM

For the record I never thought he was funny the odd times I saw him on the TV or whatever, consequently I never went to see him, if you know what he's like, and you don't like it, DON'T LISTEN TO HIM, there is a wonderful device on every TV it's called the OFF button.

Gin makes me feel sick, ergo I never drink it.

Nobody was ever forced to go and see him.

eric

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:25 AM

I don't think you have to be a fan. I just knew he did a job that required skill of the type few of these people - can imagine. Yeh you gave a speech, and one night they let you flog the raffle tickets at the vegetarian folk club - I don't think you have been within a million miles of Manning's red in claw venues.

Actually the joke about south africa is cock on as a comment on that country's racism at the time.I wonder how many of these judgemental gits were banking with Barclays and buying south african fruit throughout that period. That's the thing in a way - little people like us - we don't get much chance to say anything.

I know I was working for Aveling Barfords sending dumper trucks and other equipment to the south African mines. And damned glad to have the job. Its not easy opting out.

He was all the nasty things and had all the nasty attitudes that so many of that generation had. But he would go unremarked as a thousand others in the obituary columns of your local paper with those same attitudes do - were he not talented.

he was originally I believe a singer for one of the bigger dance bands. Theres a lot of musicians humour in there - that sort of edginess that gives it its bite, from trying to crack up the band.

But as we've said you don't have to like him, or understand where he's coming from. I can't help feeling though, you're letting your critical faculties have a bit of a rest day. Nothing new about that on the cat unfortunately. However do yourself a favour occasionally - try and think outside what your 'set' want you to think.

Theres a wonderful phrase in Albert Goldman's biography of Lenny Bruce - 'the bravery of the common showbiz footsoldier'. Grossman used it in describing why Bruce succeeded when many more brilliant comics than Bruce just gave up - faced with Summer seasons in the Catskills and tours of the midwest, pissed up boorish audiences

Manning had that 'bravery of the common showbiz footsoldier' by the bucket load. Render unto Caeser....

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: GUEST,Canadienne
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:28 AM

eric - you are correct - and like many other people I would never watch Bernard Manning. However, the two waitresses who were required to serve at a Derby hotel function were not fortunate enough to be able to switch off his vile, racist personal language directed at them personally and publicly as part of his "act".

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:31 AM

'bravery of the common showbiz footsoldier'

"What's the difference between a Paki and a bucket of shit? The bucket."

Yeah. Really brave.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:39 AM

Canadienne, Eric's argument is only correct to a certain point.

Yes, I could turn off the TV and didn't have to watch him. But he fuelled and helped to legitimise the "low-level" racism in our society amongst the people who did. Breeding and feeding division, misunderstanding, and even hatred.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:39 AM

this is stupid. I didn't like the guy much. However even I know you don't get paid for being a racist ignorant asshole. Which in effect you are saying that is all that is to be said for him.

You're brighter than that Ruth, stop wilfully misunderstanding me.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Nick
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 11:15 AM

WLD

I hear what you are saying but disagree totally

"He was all the nasty things and had all the nasty attitudes that so many of that generation had. But he would go unremarked as a thousand others in the obituary columns of your local paper with those same attitudes do - were he not talented."

People seem to agree that he was a talented comedian and performer technically.

What annoys people is that he reinforced and maintained those attitudes and never moved on. If you listened or saw any of the imterviews on TV and radio with the comedians who were his friends and supporters they all saw that point.

Comedians use the things of their age to make their comedy. Bernard Manning used the things of another age for his comedy to pander to a group of prejudiced people and to maintain and reinforce views of about 'Love thy neighbour' time. It made him a living and I dare say sat happily with his views.

I have a local pub where I argued with two people about their views on race some while ago. Apart from the time when I was threatened with physical violence by a pissed group of them in the pub(self professed racists) I now live with the fact that whenever I bump into them (unless they are by themselves) they get on their mobile phones and recount the Paki/Polish/ethnic/whatever 'jokes' and try and involve everyone else - trying to use humour and prejudice to support their particular political view which to me is abhorrent. And lots of people laugh because they are as small minded as - or scared of - the people who tell the jokes.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Mann
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 11:49 AM

WLD - you have still not told us if you use racist language. If you don't would you kindly explain why it was OK for Bernard Manning to do so?

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 01:31 PM

It wasn't okay. It was damnable. theres nothing okay aout racism.

I don't defend him or his racism.

my point (as usuual) is that he was more of the folk than most English folk music. he addressed audiences that would have scared most of us shitless.

Shakespeare could do it - he could get money out of a crowd and draw them away from the choice of attending a public execution. its an imoportant strand in great art. Not that all entertainment that can do this is great art - Manning certainly wasn't.

but the art is not of the highest order, if it hasn't got it.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: GUEST,scot
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 01:48 PM

you lot are just a bunch of hypocrites, you talk about bernard manning and yet when I read your posts, it's full hatred, racism,sexism and homophobia and you gang up on people that don't agree with you because you as I say just a bunch of fucking hypocrites thew lot of you

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: GUEST,Canadienne
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 01:54 PM

Of course it may JUST be possible your views are in the minority guest scot; but, if you find those of us who don't agree with you so offensive, may I repectfully suggest you leave.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 03:34 PM

Quite correct Ruth, I am not a racist.
The "question" you quoted was a proposed title for a new thread discussing racism, as you know very well.

I know that people of your ilk don't like discussing "difficult" subjects like racism or homosexuality as you might find that your cosy preconceived ideas turn out to be wrong. However I am unafraid to discuss any subject with intelligent people.... and if that makes me a racist/ homophobe in your eyes, so be it.

Another job for the "Thought police"....Eh?

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Mann
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 04:04 PM

I know that people of your ilk don't like discussing "difficult" subjects like racism or homosexuality as you might find that your cosy preconceived ideas turn out to be wrong

How come you know Ruth so well?

Couldn't be preconceived ideas - could it?

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 04:13 PM

Davie....Ruth's M.O. is quite obvious from her posts.
The worrying thing is that there seems to be many more of them out there....just like Ruth.

I blame it on CJD...Ake

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Mann
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 04:17 PM

the Radio Times's smart arse interviewer, who usually spends his sycophantic life crawling up the arses of the stars. He sensed that Bernard had few defenders and tore into him. I just hate that sort of intellectual bullying.

But you are happy to praise the creative effort that is needed to insult people with words like sambo, nigger and wog like he did, to those waitresses in Derby when he had a microphone and they couldn't answer back. That takes real intellect and fantastic creative talent.

Can we just try and get rid of the argument that what he did took a certain amount of skill and most of us would be scared shitless. For well over twenty years I stood for twenty+ hours a week in front of some of the toughest roughest students that Sheffield could provide.

Bernard Manning would not have lasted five minutes.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Mann
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 04:22 PM

Aha - so it was pre-conceived ideas and you don't know her at all.........thanks, that is what I thought.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 04:25 PM

Students are easy meat.......you've really got to watch the fifty-something housewifes full to the eyeballs wi' Brandy and babycham.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 04:32 PM

Sorry we keep cross posting.
We don't really know anyone on these forums, but any ideas I have on important subjects have been formulated by life experience.
I make an assesment of people like you and Ruth from your posts.
I'm not impressed by taunts of racist when used to prop up a weak argument.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 05:01 PM

tough students ...give me a break!

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 05:07 PM

I can beat that - my brother in law lectured in horticulture - for over thirty years alone and undaunted, he lectured on flower arranging and herbaceous borders.

And throughout it all, he wore his blood donors badge!

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 05:17 PM

"The "question" you quoted was a proposed title for a new thread discussing racism, as you know very well."

And the tone of the question - "Do Britain's ethnic communities respect/ like the British??" - specifically as a response to this thread, has "racist" written through it like a stick of rock.

The fact is, Bernard Manning was a racist. The jokes quoted above turn my stomach. If they don't do the same to you, have a long hard look at yourself. If they do, ask yourself why the hell you are defending someone who would denegrate fellow human beings in this way.

That's all.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Mann
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 05:18 PM

Bernard wouldn't have lasted five minutes because the minute he made some racist remark, one of the 17-year-old-six-foot-four-inch-spends-three-hours-a-day weight-training students would have punched his lights out. It is the sort you get in the college I taught at.

Or perhaps he wouldn't have been so brave and creative in front of black students.

To Akenton.

I have not called anyone a racist on here with the exception of Bernard Manning. I called him a racist before he died.

I am delighted you have some life experience. What a pity it has taught you little about stereotyping from minimal information.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: GUEST,Candienne
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 05:25 PM

"you've really got to watch the fifty-something housewifes full to the eyeballs wi' Brandy and babycham" - another easy stereotype and again not even funny!

Bernard Manning may or may not have been a racist, I never met the bloke, but I do know he made a living pandering to the ignorant bigots that were and thereby lending their fears and prejeudices some kind of spurious "acceptability"

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 05:34 PM

I give up!!   Time to call the men with the white coats.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Rog Peek
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 05:41 PM

Bernard Manning must be up there......whoops sorry, down there watching these heated exchanges and lapping it up, why give him the satisfaction?

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 05:43 PM

well actually if you traddies didn't have your heads so far up your arses singing about the battle of waterloo and other stuff nobody gives a shit about...you would realise Bernard was at least talking about the anxieties of modern society.

Whilst feminists were cleverly calling everybody MCP's just at the point when all the jobs in industry and men's roles in society were disappearing down the tubes.....don't get married girls!

Whilst the lefties down at the Star Club were singing of the bold IRA, just as Birmingham was getting blown to bits.....

there was this creative artist addressing the fears of people who had and helping to make the alien presence of Irish and coloured people in our community - a little less scary that many people actually found it.

now piss off and dance round the maypole!

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Mann
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 06:01 PM

Or to put it another way there was this racist who increased all the tensions and gave succour to people hating other people on the basis of their ethnicity by his foul-mouthed racism.

WLD - you revealed a lot about yourself in that post. Akenton will be pleased.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 06:42 PM

"there was this creative artist addressing the fears of people who had and helping to make the alien presence of Irish and coloured people in our community - a little less scary that many people actually found it."

"What's the difference between a Paki and a bucket of shit? The bucket."

yeah - I get your point, WLD. Not.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 06:45 PM

"there was this creative artist addressing the fears of people who had and helping to make the alien presence of Irish and coloured people in our community - a little less scary that many people actually found it."

"40 years ago, twenty white men chasing a nigger was the Klu Klux Klan. Today they call it the US Open"

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 06:48 PM

"there was this creative artist addressing the fears of people who had and helping to make the alien presence of Irish and coloured people in our community - a little less scary that many people actually found it."

"I am an admirer of Adolf Hitler," he told the Sunday People. "Not everything about him, of course. I deplore his gas chambers and Gestapo as much as anyone, but I admire him for the things he got right, which I reckon was about 50 per cent."

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 07:04 PM

I think Alexei Sayle covers the subject very eloquently, with added validity due to his own background, here.

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 07:05 PM

"there was this creative artist addressing the fears of people who had and helping to make the alien presence of Irish and coloured people in our community - a little less scary that many people actually found it."

""What's the difference between an Iraqi woman and a pilchard?

One's oily and greasy with fucking bulging eyes, and the other's a fish."

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: GUEST,Canadienne
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 07:10 PM

thank you for that link George - as eloquently expressed as I would expect from Alexi Sayle - a "must read" there remains nothing more to be added!

Subject: RE: Britain's greatest comedian dead-Bernard Manning
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 07:16 PM

"there was this creative artist addressing the fears of people who had and helping to make the alien presence of Irish and coloured people in our community - a little less scary that many people actually found it."

to a black police officer at a function:

"You're black, I'm white. Do you think colour makes a difference? You bet your bollocks it does!"

"They actually think they're English because they are born here. That means if a dog's born in a stable, it is horse."

"They used to be happy people in the cotton fields, singing their bollocks off day and night. A fella used to go around with a whip… 'Oh, massa, give us another crack of dat whip. I love dat whip'…" "