BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 04:07 AM

Well, Gurney -

Government leaders speak from a political perspective, and business leaders speak from a profit perspective - and most speak primarily for the priorities of their own country or company. I think this world needs religious leaders to speak from an ethical perspective. Yes, some have failed, but some religious leaders have made spectacular contributions. The Dalai Lama is universally respected, as is Archbishop Desmond Tutu. I think John Paul II did well in opposing Marcos in the Philippines and Communism in Eastern Europe, and the US-UK war in Iraq. The U.S. civil rights movement might never have had such success without Martin Luther King, Jr., and other religious leaders. Mother Theresa didn't do too bad, either.

Business and political leaders speak for power - that's what they're supposed to do, I suppose. If religious leaders do what they are supposed to do, they speak for ethics, for peace, and for justice for the oppressed. For the large part, I think modern religious leaders have divorced themselves from the politics of power, and that has made them credible witnesses for justice.

Oh, and then there are the fundamentalists, but that's another story...

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 06:16 AM

Of course the Pope would have reminded Tony Blair of the fact that at all stages the Church had been opposed to the war against Iraq, and had warned that it would be disastrous.

Aside from everything else he would have been very conscious of the fate of the ancient Chaldean Catholic minority in Iraq. Since the invasion of Iraq is that life has got immeasurably worse for minority, to which one in 20 Iraqis belonged - now they are very largely in exile, or for those who haven't been forced/able to flee, they are living lives very much under threat.

It isn't just politics, it's people.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 07:11 AM

Does all this mean that the old solution to our problems is still the same - we need a Catholic King and a Protestant Pope?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 12:12 PM

You may be referring to an old toast... "Here's to the pigeon with the green wings" ... meaning "An Irish Pope and a Papish King".

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: GUEST,Protospasm
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 09:48 PM

Blair will have to be a Catholic in order to be King of the European Union. What a whore. No allegiance to country or religion. Just when I think our American politicians are at the bottom of the barrel, there's Blair going to Pope Ratzinger of the Hitler Youth, cutting a deal in the name of God. What a waste of protoplasm.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 10:12 PM

Bigospasm!

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: bobad
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 10:19 PM

Mmmm....bigos.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: Gurney
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 03:59 AM

Yeah, Joe, but I try to be just, and if it is OK for Christian leaders to be political, then it has to be OK for Muslim leaders to be political, too. And I don't much like their politics.

The way the world is wobbling nowadays jars my sense of justice.

I just want the religiously committed to strive for peace and humanity and fair play and freedom of worship, and take a moral stance.
I prefer my politicians where I can vote them in, and particularly out, if needed.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 04:25 AM

"I just want the religiously committed to strive for peace and humanity and fair play and freedom of worship, and take a moral stance."

There's nothing wrong with that but tell me. As long as religious leaders stay within those parameters, doesn't that give political leaders freedom from conscience?
Add to that, the knowledge that no religious leader would impart his/her political views to the congregation/voters.
Who is going to stand up if even our religious leaders won't?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 05:50 AM

Strive for peace but don't mention the fact there's a war going on? Keep it nice and vague...

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:38 AM

I thought the problem was that if Tony Blair was Catholic it meant his selection for the next Archbishop of Canterbury (Church of England) would be somewhat compromised. As in most other things The Queen does not do the choosing.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:13 AM

But it wouldn't be if he was a Presbyterian or an atheist or a Jew or a Buddhist...

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:06 PM

Perhaps he will be like Hyman Roth at the end of Godfather 2 - the Muslims won't have him, or the Jews, or Brazil, it's got to be..... the Catholics!

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:41 PM

The Prime Minister is obligated to approve the choice which is actually made by the Assembly.
See, there is no need for this law. It serves absolutely no purpose today but the fact that it should have to be one day, challenged before it's dropped is extremely profound. We all have our prejudices. Every one of us but sometimes our bias runs deeper than we realize.
I don't remember who it was who offered the opinion that it wouldn't stand up to the challenge and I'm not about to go back and read it. However, when I read it, I cringed. The writer was obviously well intentioned, meant no harm to anyone and yet content to leave things as they are.
It may be meaningless to some but one more reason why I & others like me chose to emigrate.
Cheers!
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:56 PM

You read too much into that comment of mine Jim Lad, and draw the wrong conclusion. I'd love to see it challenged, and I would even if I wasn't confident it wouldn't stand up to the challenge.

It would of course be better if the supposed ("supposed" because probably legally unsustainable) ban could be ended without waiting until there is a Catholic Prime Minister in waiting. Maybe Gordon might even put that one on his shopping list.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 08:16 PM

If you read what I just put down, you'll see that I knew that you meant no harm and also that I wasn't too interested in remembering who wrote it nor am I offended. The fact that you don't get it is a danger in itself but what you also fail to realize is that this is the type of Anti-Catholic climate which I was raised in.
If the Prime Minister cannot be Catholic, can you just imagine what ramifications that has on every other job opportunity down the ladder?
A fine example. No?
Still, harmless enough to those who are not adversely affected by it.
I don't have to imagine. I was there.
Regards
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 04:26 PM

I have to admit it's never affected me, or any fellow Catholics I know, Jim Lad.

Formally removing any remaining anti-Catholic legislation would of course be a good thing to do, even though it now has no legal force. Gestures like that are symbolically important. But it's not a top priority.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 04:48 PM

I rest my case, yer honour.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:44 PM

he's something starting with 'C'

Catholic isn't the first thing that springs to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Blair a Catholic?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 10:34 PM

Conservative?