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Norf and Sarf - cockney songs

DigiTrad:
DAHN THE PLUG'OLE


Related threads:
Lyr Req: My baby got washed down the plughole (55)
Lyr Req: Alice, where are you going? Upstairs to.. (59)
Lyr Req: A Mother's Lament / Dahn the Plug'ole (21)
Anybody know this song? Baby Down Plughole (31)
Lyr Req: Dahn the Plug Hole (14)
Tune Add: Dahn the Plug'ole / Down the Plughole (6)


Alan B 12 Apr 99 - 09:50 AM
Steve Parkes 12 Apr 99 - 12:06 PM
Bert 12 Apr 99 - 12:46 PM
Alan B 13 Apr 99 - 08:24 AM
GUEST,Dave Dragonrider 21 Mar 08 - 10:39 AM
The Villan 21 Mar 08 - 11:01 AM
Bonzo3legs 21 Mar 08 - 11:52 AM
Bert 21 Mar 08 - 12:09 PM
The Villan 21 Mar 08 - 12:21 PM
Billy Weeks 21 Mar 08 - 12:26 PM
Billy Weeks 21 Mar 08 - 12:28 PM
The Villan 21 Mar 08 - 12:43 PM
The Villan 21 Mar 08 - 01:04 PM
The Doctor 22 Mar 08 - 06:17 AM
Billy Weeks 22 Mar 08 - 10:15 AM
Bonzo3legs 22 Mar 08 - 02:27 PM
The Walrus 23 Mar 08 - 05:07 AM
Ragamuffin 23 Mar 08 - 06:23 AM
Dave Earl 23 Mar 08 - 10:05 AM
TRUBRIT 23 Mar 08 - 03:21 PM
The Villan 23 Mar 08 - 04:05 PM
Mrs.Duck 23 Mar 08 - 05:41 PM
TRUBRIT 23 Mar 08 - 07:33 PM
Kevin Sheils 24 Mar 08 - 06:14 AM
GUEST,mayomick 24 Mar 08 - 09:51 AM
Backwoodsman 25 Mar 08 - 04:54 AM
Snuffy 25 Mar 08 - 05:18 AM
The Doctor 25 Mar 08 - 06:15 AM
Backwoodsman 25 Mar 08 - 08:12 AM
Backwoodsman 25 Mar 08 - 08:13 AM
Kevin Sheils 25 Mar 08 - 08:25 AM
Snuffy 25 Mar 08 - 11:46 AM
GUEST,The Mole catcher's unplugged Apprentice 25 Mar 08 - 11:51 AM
Backwoodsman 25 Mar 08 - 01:26 PM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice 25 Mar 08 - 01:47 PM
Snuffy 25 Mar 08 - 02:11 PM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice 25 Mar 08 - 02:20 PM
Ragamuffin 25 Mar 08 - 02:45 PM
GUEST,Big Norman Voice 25 Mar 08 - 03:01 PM
The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) 25 Mar 08 - 03:10 PM
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Subject: Norf and Sarf (What a mouth)
From: Alan B
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 09:50 AM

Looking for lyrics & background to Cockney songs. have found a good site at http://www.morrison.demon.co.uk/cockney/noframes.html but also want North & South Mother's lament nine inch nails

and any other suggestions

Help


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Subject: Lyr Add: NINE-INCH NAILS and A MOTHER'S LAMENT
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 12:06 PM

"What a Marf" is a Harry Champion song. There ought to be a website devoted to him, but I haven't looked. Let us know if you find one! Chas & Dave may have recorded this, and Cosmotheka certainly have. There's a website somewhere with a lot of their songs printed out, but I'm damned if I can find it. Someone's sure to oblige.

"NINE-INCH NAILS" (if this is the one you want!) used to be performed by Martin Winsor and Redd Sullivan - and I mean performed! It's two songs stuck together. If I remember aright, they used to say they learned it off someone who didn't know anything about its origins. That makes fofive of us, 'cos the man I learned it from got it from them. Here are the words:

We don't not know no-one what don't want no nine inch nails!
We don't not know no-one what don't want no nine inch nails!
Do they go in? They don't 'alf!
Will they come out? They won't 'alf!
We know the King and we know the Queen
And we know the Prince of Wales, but
We don't not know no-one what don't want no nine-inch nails!

On Monday I never go to work;
On Tuesday I stays at 'ome;
On Wednesday I never feel inclined,
Work is the last thing on my mind;
On Thursday it's an 'oliday,
And Fridays I detest;
It's too late to make a start on Saturday,
And Sunday is a day of rest!

"A MOTHER'S LAMENT" was recorded by Cream - honest! It goes:

A mother was washing her baby one night,
The youngest of ten and a poor little mite.
The mother was poor, and the baby was thin;
It was only a skelington covered with skin!

The mother turned round for the soap off the rack.
She was only a moment, but when she turned back
Her baby was gone, and in anguish she cried,
"Oh where has my baby gone?"
The angels replied:

"Your baby has gone down the plug-hole,
Your baby has gone down th plug.
The poor little thing was so skinny and thin
He ought to've been washed in a jug!
Your aby is perfectly happy,
He won't need a bath any more.
He's mucking about with the angels above,
Not lost but gone before.

It also works just as well in other accents.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf
From: Bert
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 12:46 PM

Tommy Steele did a version and I think I remember on by The Irish Rovers.

Of course "Norf and Sarf" is only for the song. In regular speech its just Norfan. As my Dad says "Corfan in yer Norfan"

and "Sarf" doesn't really do justice to the Cockney pronunciation. It's more like "Sa-uf"



Bert.


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Subject: Lyr Add: WHY BUILD A WALL ROUND A GRAVEYARD
From: Alan B
Date: 13 Apr 99 - 08:24 AM

Thanks both

Steve, that was a real help. I had vaguely remembered Dave & Toni Arthur ( or perhaps Tim Hart & Maddy Proir ) singing
On Monday don't go to work; etc
and continuing with

WHY BUILD A WALL ROUND A GRAVEYARD

I thank the words were:

Why build a wall round a graveyard
When no body wants to get in
Why build a wall round a graveyard
When no body wants to get out
"You're not dead but sleeping,
they put it with care"
But no body calls you at ninie o'clock there
So Why build a wall round a graveyard
When no body wants to get out

Have I rememebered this right do you know?

I've also tried searching the internet for lyrics to no avail, but the background is just what I wanted


Alan B


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Subject: Lyr Add: WHY BUILD A WALL 'ROUND A GRAVEYARD?
From: GUEST,Dave Dragonrider
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 10:39 AM

WHY BUILD A WALL 'ROUND A GRAVEYARD?
(Leslie Sarony)

Leslie Sarony

Also recorded by:
Roy Fox & His Band
Billy Baxter & His Carnaby Street Vaudeville Band



Here's a contortionist, Filleted Pete
Tried only too well to make both his ends meet

Charlie the taximan lies over there
Wherever he's gone to, he'll say it's "No Fare"

Here lies a heavyweight under the ground
With a circular saw only lasted one round

Here lies a butcher named Timothy Wights
A nice piece of skirt quickly put out his lights

R - I - P, that's another good feller gone west
R - I - P, with a blinkin' great slab on his chest

So......

Why build a wall 'round a graveyard
When nobody wants to get in?
Why build a wall round a graveyard
When nobody wants to get out?
They say its a beautiful haven of rest
But you know that you'll be a permanent guest
So, why build a wall round a graveyard
When nobody wants to get in?

Why build a wall round a graveyard
When no body wants to get in?
Why build a wall round a graveyard
When no body wants to get out?
"You're not dead but sleeping", they put it with care
But no body calls you at nini o'clock there
So, why build a wall round a graveyard
When no body wants to get out?


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf
From: The Villan
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 11:01 AM

Tommy Steele What a mouth


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 11:52 AM

I can't think of anything more hideous than cockney songs


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf
From: Bert
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 12:09 PM

Oi! Wotchit mate!!!!


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf
From: The Villan
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 12:21 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV3wd9-ZJBQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxCrSgPWmsk&feature=related

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=3454990


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 12:26 PM

And I can't think of anything more hideous than cockney songs the way they get sung today. There are scores of really great London cockney songs and you can hear them sung properly on easily available reisssues of elderly records, but what many modern singers think is a cockney voice is really a God-awful distortion of the London dialect, as stupid and offensive as mummerset yokelese - and the coarse manner of their performance is an insult to the sensitive artistry of singers like Marie Lloyd, Kate Carney, Gus Elen and Nat Travers.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 12:28 PM

I've been wanting to say that for a long time. You can tell, can't you?


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf
From: The Villan
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 12:43 PM

LOL Billy
I wanted to put some Alf Garnett videos up on here, but they are pretty rascist, so I avoided it.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf
From: The Villan
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 01:04 PM

Do you mean this sort of stuff Billy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG-wjkB7gXM


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: The Doctor
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 06:17 AM

I have just bought an LP from eBay, Charles Keeping's Cockney Ding Dong, which has a number of the above mentioned songs on it, as well as many that aren't. Charles Keeping, the artist, was a cockney, and the effect aimed for on this record was of a family singaround, but to be honest there are times when it verges on the Black and White Minstrels. Fun for all that.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 10:15 AM

Villan: The Lily Morris performance of this song is slightly exaggerated (this is, after all, a movie) but lacks the sheer horror of nearly all modern attempts to represent Marie Lloyd. I avoid saying 'imitate', since that would imply that the original had actually been studied. Unfortunately Marie never recorded this particular song, but you can hear her voice and manner of performance on a number of original recordings. They demonstrate that, accomplished actor as she was, she could switch her natural accent on or off at will. But she was never coarse or raucous. Among modern performers, Jan Hunt (I think around forty years ago) was the best Marie. A sensitive and telling player and a fine singer but, so far as I know, never recorded in that role.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 02:27 PM

It's the hideous New Addington and general Croydon accents I can't stand - 300,000 oiks fighting to see whose voice can go highest at the end of each sentence!!!


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: The Walrus
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 05:07 AM

"...It's the hideous New Addington and general Croydon accents I can't stand - 300,000 oiks fighting to see whose voice can go highest at the end of each sentence!!!..."
That sounds more like 'Essex/Estury' rather than Croydon to me.

W


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE 'OUSES IN BETWEEN
From: Ragamuffin
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 06:23 AM

The Cockney songs of the day: were repopularized by an old friend of mine in the 50s - 70s : John Forman - better known as "The Broadsheet King". John was a printer by trade and sold his "Music Broadsheets" on the corner of Pettycoat Lane in London for as little as 1 penny per sheet. John was a founder member of the British Music Hall Society.

John made several records in which he authentically recorded numerous Cockney Songs passed down through his family: none of these albums are any longer available. However, if you would like to supply a postal address, I'll be only too pleased to send you a CD. copy, taken from one of his original recording made in 1966: "The 'Ouses In-between" (A collectors item now)

The Ouses In Between.

If you saw our little garden, what a pretty sight you'd say
It's a picture on a sunny summers day
With the turnips and the cabbages that peoples doesn't buy
Well I makes it on a Sunday look so gay.
Well the neighbours thinks I grows em
And you's fancy yer in Kent
Or in Epsom if you gaze into the mews
It's a wonder that the landlord doesn't want to raise the rent
Just because we've got such nobby distant views – them views.

Oh it really is a very pretty garden
And Chiswick to the westward might be seen
With a ladder and some glasses
You could see to Hackney marshes
If it wasn't fer the ouses in between.

Though the gasworks isn't violets, they improve the rural scene
And for mountains they would very nicely pass
With the mushrooms in the dusthole and the cowcumbers oh so green
Why it only wants a bit of hot house glass
Oh I weras a milkman's nightshirt and sits outside all day
Like a plow boy, home that misled o'r the lee
And when I comes indoors at night I don't know what to say
Cause me language gets as yocal as can be – can be

For it really is a very pretty garden
And Hampsted to the northwards might be seen
If I had a rope and pulley, I'd enjoy the breeze more fully
If it wasn't fer the ouses in between

We're as countrified as can be, with a cloths prop for a tree
And the mangle makes a rustic little style
Every time the blinkin clock strikes, there's a cuckoo sings to me
And I've ridden up to Kentish town one mile
The dustcart, though it seldom comes, is just like harvest home
And we mean to rig a dairy up some how
Put the donkey in the wash house with some imitation horns
And we're teaching it to moo just like a ow – like a cow

For it really is a very pretty garden
And Hackney to the eastward might be seen
And by clinging to the chimney
You could see across to Wembley
If it wasn't fer the ouses in between

If it wasn't fer the ouses in between!!


My email: brianglan@talktalk.net
www.ragamuffin.biz

Take care now.

Ragamuffin Brian


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 10:05 AM

Second line of final chorus bit was always :-

"And Chingford to the Eastward could be seen"

when Grandad sang it!

Don't suppose it really matters much which way it is sung except that Hackney (where I ws born) is mentioned earlier in the song and to me it grates slightly in the repetition.

Still a fun song though.

Dave


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 03:21 PM

I love The Houses in Between.

Is Tommy Steele still alive ??? I know Joe Brown is because my sister said he played in a show near her recently........


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: The Villan
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 04:05 PM

Yes still doing shows.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 05:41 PM

Joe Brown was on the TV only last week promoting a tour I think. He used to live near us in Woodford when I was a child.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 07:33 PM

But Tommy Steele is quite a bit older than Joe Brown , I would think.....the fact they are both alive and well is comforting -- perhaps my cunning plan to live forever will work with such stalwart examples in front of me!


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 06:14 AM

Yes Breton Cap, I'm sure John Foreman sings "Chingford" certainly that's the way I've always known it.


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Subject: Lyr Add: MOTHER KELLY'S DOORSTEP
From: GUEST,mayomick
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 09:51 AM

Moher Kelly's doorstep was always my favourite . I saw Danny La Rue interviewed many years ago who said the song had been written by his coalman . Paradise Row is in Bethnal Green.

On Mother Kelly's doorstep, down Paradise Row
I'd sit along Nelly, she'd sit along Joe

chorus
She had a little hole in her frock,
an hole in her shoe
an hole in her sock where her toe peaked through
But Nelly was the smartest down our alley

On Mother Kelly's doorstep , I'm wonderin' now
If little Nellie remembers Joe
And does she love him the way she used to
On Mother Kelly's doorstep ,down Paradise Row


The songabout the nine inch nails reminds me of the one the Clancy Brothers did in mock cockney accents . I think it was called
They're Moving Father's Grave to Build A Sewer. Anyone remember how it goes?


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 04:54 AM

Joe Brown's not a Cockney. He's a Yellow-belly.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Snuffy
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 05:18 AM

Being born in a stable doesn't make you a horse!


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: The Doctor
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 06:15 AM

Oh, they're moving father's grave to build a sewer,
They're moving it regardless of expense.
They're shifting his remains, to put in five-inch drains,
To irrigate some posh bloke's residence.
Now in his lifetime father never was a quitter,
And I'm sure that he won't be a quitter now,
For when that job's complete, he'll haunt that privy seat,
And he'll only let them sit when he'll allow.
Oh, won't there be some bleeding consternation,
And won't those city chappies rant and rave,
Which is no more than they deserve,
To have the bloody nerve,
To muck about with a British workman's grave.

Collected by Charles Keeping, and in his book Cockney Ding Dong.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 08:12 AM

"Being born in a stable doesn't make you a horse!"

Sorry Snuffy, you lost me there! It doesn't make you a cockney either! :-)


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 08:13 AM

And, of course, you have to be born in a specific stable to be a cockney! :-)


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 08:25 AM

Of course one definition IIRC was being born within the sound of Bow Bells.

Now I understand that they were damaged during the war and not heard again until relatively recently so I guess that no cockneys were born for a long time!


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Snuffy
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 11:46 AM

If being born in Swarby makes Joe Brown a Yellowbelly, what does being born in India make Cliff Richard?


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,The Mole catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 11:51 AM

"If being born in Swarby makes Joe Brown a Yellowbelly, what does being born in India make Cliff Richard?"

Anglo-Indian

Charlotte (the view from ma and Pa's piano stool)


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 01:26 PM

"If being born in Swarby makes Joe Brown a Yellowbelly, what does being born in India make Cliff Richard?"

Dunno, but he's not a cockney either Snuffy.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 01:47 PM

'Dunno, but he's not a cockney either'

Brown never claimed to be a Cockney, that was someone's publicity machine, at the time (probably Larry Parnes), that called him that.

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Snuffy
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 02:11 PM

Silly me. Of course he's not a Cockney. I keep forgetting all those Lincolnshire songs he recorded - Jellied Eels, 'Enery the Eighth, Crazy World.

Snuffy (Joe Brown & The Bruvvers Fan Club member No. 47, 1961/2)


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 02:20 PM

anyway.....Alab B is looking for lyrics to Cockney songs...not whether Joes Brown can claim Cockneyness (which he can't and never has)or not.

Re the songs There Might Be Something Here

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE HOBNAIL BOOTS THAT FATHER WORE
From: Ragamuffin
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 02:45 PM

Here's another to add to the collection:-

THE HOBNAIL BOOTS THAT FATHER WORE

My fathers feet filled up half a street
So his boots were in proportion
And the kids he'd squash in a week by gosh
It really was a caution
And me and me brother from the age of four
Wrapped up cosy in a box o straw
Till eleven in the morning used to sleep and snore
In the hobnail boots that father wore

When Madge and Flo went to Southend show
Some money they'd be saving
Father's boots was seen as a bathing machine
In a naked exchange for bathing
Whilst they were bathing, they'd forgot I'm sure
The holes he had cut for his corns and sores
The boys started giggling at what they saw
In the hobnail boots that father wore

Now we had a goat with a caste iron throat
Though she never used to bite us
She died one Sunday in the afternoon
Of acute appendicitis
Now she had whiskers used to touch the floor
And when they were plaited by the kids next door
Made the finest laces that you ever saw
In the hobnail boots that father wore

When I went to school well I felt a fool
One day when I was drilling
And the teacher said, toe the line fat head
So I did, though most unwilling
She said, I'll tell you and I've told you before
Don't keep backing through the school house door
Just toe the line said the kids with a roar
In the hobnail boots that father wore

On a Lord Mayor's day, just to shout hooray
Away and how I sauced them
But his plates of meat stuck across the street
So the Lord Mayor drove across them
As he was going through the Guild Hall door
Father fell flat upon his back and swore
Well the crowd started booing for all they saw
Were the hobnail boots that father wore

The hobnail boots that father wore!

Try singing that one after a few "Pigs Ears"!

Ragamuffin Brian


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,Big Norman Voice
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:01 PM

I have heard that a strong laxative will help shift stubborn stools.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:10 PM

I've heard that gagging works for BIG mouths (oops that was voice...) as well...but...that's a bit off topic isn't it? *LOL*

Alan you might want to look at songs of the music hall, there might be something there as well.

Music Hall Songs


Cheers

Charlotte (a sense of humour is must on Mudcat)


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:19 PM

From: GUEST,Big Norman Voice - PM
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:01 PM

I have heard that a strong laxative will help shift stubborn stools.


with apologies to George Robey....

Your society is most superfluous,
Your presence should eradicated.
and yes you should be bade to exit,
And you know you might expeditiously migrate-
In other words, "Buzz off!"

*LOL*

Charlotte (Burlington Bertie I ain't)


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Subject: Lyr Add: DOWN THE ROAD
From: Ragamuffin
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:52 PM

You just keep writing 'em down and singing them, and we'll keep supplying them!


DOWN THE ROAD

Since first I popped a tiny bit of swag
I've always kept a decent little nag
But one as I will sing bout to you now
Was worth a million jimmies in a bag

I matched against the best that could be found
For owners made a stake of fifty pounds
So the race was dually run
And I'll tell you how I won
With my pony brave old Polly well renown

Down the road, away went Polly with her steps so jolly that I new she'd win
Down the road the pace was killing but the mare was willing for a lightning spin

All the rest were licked and might as well have ne'er been born
Woo mare, woo mare you've earned your little bit of corn.

Tom Jones the butcher thought the form untrue
Says he, look here I'll tell you what I'll do
My cob shall trot your mare again next Monday
And fifty more bright sovereigns I will blue

If you can prove that she can beat him once again
I never more in this world touch a grain
Though I new he had no chance
He insisted on the dance
So then now I'll tell you how I slew the slain

Down the road, away went Polly with her steps so jolly that I new she'd win
Down the road the pace was killing but the mare was willing for a lightning spin
Jones cob was licked and might as well have ne'er been born
Woo mare, woo mare, you've earned your little bit of corn

Soon after that she reached life's final goal
I'd had that little wonder from a foal
And grief to keen to talk about was my win
For foal was starting off to fill an hole!

The missus and the kids all went with me
The last of poor fed pony then to see
And our neighbours shared the grief
That was felt beyond belief
When the little mare was buried RIP

Down the road away went Polly, not a face stood jolly for it seemed a sin
Down the road, the pace not killing, but the dead mare willing for a final spin
Everyone looked so sad, and I felt quite forlorn
Woo mare, woo mare, you've earned your little bit of corn

Down the road, away went Polly with her steps so jolly that I new she'd win
Down the road the pace was killing but the mare was willing for a lightning spin

All the rest were licked and might as well have ne'er been born
Woo mare, woo mare you've earned your little bit of corn.


Ragamuffin Brian


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Ragamuffin
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 04:11 PM

Alan B

I hope that this extremely long post may help with your original query my friend, and NO I didn't sit up all night writing it: it was compiled for an original query made from my American Music List in 2002!

Take care now.

Ragamuffin Brian

Picking Up The Musical Threads!!!

To be a true Londoner - A Cockney, you have to be born within hearing distance of the bells of St. Mary Le Bow, Cheapside, in the City of London.


Cockney Rabbit or talk originated as a secret way of communicating by costermongers when carrying out illegal street trade in the mid-nineteenth century
Cockneys are known for their eloquent wit. Their gift for phrase making and nicknaming has enriched the English tongue with new forms of speech; clichés and catchwords that have not only been diffused through the housing estates of East London but have proliferated many, many miles out of earshot of the sound of Bow Bells around the English speaking world.
Some slang has become part of everyday speech and many Londoners wouldn't realise they are using it. Some slang is shortened to use only the first part of the rhyme, as in `butchers hook' means `look' as used in the sentence `Let's have a Butchers' meaning `let's have a look'. Modern phrases in everyday usage include `leave it out' means something like 'don't be silly'; 'gercha!' means anything from 'you liar' to 'go away'; 'give us a bell' means 'phone me'; 'geeing up' is teasing; 'old man/woman' is father/rnother or husband/wife; 'old geezer' is an old man; 'straight up' means 'honestly'; 'hang about' means 'hold on'; 'give it some stick' is to perform strenuously; 'what's the damage?' means 'how much?'; 'you're not on !' means, 'the answer is definitely NO !'.
New slang is being constantly manufactured and there are variants, sometimes funny and apt, occasionally vulgar and of uncertain origin, but still adding to the power or variety of the English language.
This is one example of the use of traditional Cockney rhyming slang ...
`Ullo, mate. Come in awf (out) of de frog an' toad (road) an' 'ave a cuppa Rosie (cup of tea). It's on de Cain an'Abel (table). But wipe yer plates o' meat (feet) 'cos de ol' trouble an' strife (wife)'s just scrubbed de Rory O'More (floor). She's up de apples an' pears (upstairs) 'avin' a bo-peep (sleep). I'm still on de cob an coal, (dole). Get into that lion's lair (chair) and let's chew the fat (have a chat).'
A response .... 'hey, gerrahvit (get out of it). It's a lowerol rubbish that slang stuff. I've lived in Hackney all me life, and I've yet to hear anyone say `come in awf of de frog an' toad', when they mean out of the the road. That stuff is for tourists!

Pearly Kings and Queens

Pearly Kings and Queens were an `aristocracy' of Victorian London costermongers. Their ceremonial clothes were studded with a countless lavish collection of pearl buttons.
Victorian costermongers, earned their living selling fruit and vegetables from a barrow. Pearly Kings and Queens were originally elected to safeguard their rights from competitors. Today they devote their activities to charitable activities.
The tradition of London's Pearly Kings and Queens began in Victorian times when a young orphan boy, Henry Croft, decided that since he shared his birthdate with Queen Victoria in the hope that he might share some of her glory ! The Royal Family would parade in their finery in the London parks on Sundays so that the common people could appreciate their grandeur. This sentiment was not always well received and there was a certain amount of "lampooning" of this tradition in the poor mans favourite entertainment of the day - The Music Hall.

What is/was Music Hall?

In the early part of the 19th century, tavern landlords, seeking to draw custom, would hire song and dance acts, introducing them in turn from in front of a simple stage and trying to keep order with the gavel. Meanwhile the audience, boisterous with alcohol, heckled and joined in with their favorite performers and songs.
The phenomenon spread rapidly across Britain, creating great reputations and quick fortunes. Almost any building that could hold an audience was pressed into service. At its peak, in the 1880s, music hall was the TV of its day. Hundreds operated in London alone, and most city dwellers visited them every week.


Stars such as the suggestive Marie Lloyd, and the male impersonator Vesta Tilley were enormously popular in a way it is hard to believe now. Songs were written specially for them, and their permission would have to be sought if other performers wanted to sing them in public.
The fame of British Music Hall performers spread across Europe. The young Stravinsky even wrote a string quartet in honour of Little Tich, a diminutive comedy singer whose trademark four-foot long shoes allowed him to dance hilarious and magical routines onstage.
By the First World War stricter liquor licensing and building laws made it harder to entertain large audiences in a casual way -- the sale of liquor in auditoriums was outlawed in 1902, striking a blow at the very heart of music hall -- and it evolved into to Variety, a larger, if blander for and broader version, although curiously 'variety' had always been a more suitable word anyway. Music Hall as such had all but died.


Though it was not forgotten. In 1936 two young actor/musicians were offered a short lease on premises in London's Covent Garden. They decided to put on a revival of this old proletarian art form. Initially this was for no other reason than an older colleague - an expert of the Music Hall - suggested it. But that's another story...
Music Hall was a vital part of Victorian British life, and almost as important as TV is to ours. For more information, you can contact Daphne Singleton of the British Music Hall Society, on 0171 836 3289.
If you have a specific historical query, write to the Historian:
Max Tyler
British Music Hall Society
76 Royal Close
Chichester, W. Sussex
PO19 2FL
But please enclose an SAE or reply coupons.
He gets several hundred queries a year and postage costs a lot!


The History of Wilton's - London's Oldest Music Hall
The Music Hall Years
Wilton's on Fire
From Music Hall to Mission
Film and TV at Wilton's
The Waste Land
Wilton's Lives Again - Broomhill Opera

The Music Hall Years


Wilton's Music Hall was the first and one of the most successful of London's music halls. Situated in Grace's Alley, just off Cable Street in London's East End, it was opened by John and Ellen Wilton in 1858.
Wilton's had previously been a public house, the 'Prince of Denmark' which had a concert hall where melodramas were performed. Lavish use of mahogany in the tap-room's decoration earned it the name 'The Old Mahogany Bar'. It was still known by this name until well into the 1950s.
Known as "the handsomest room in town" Wilton's was a highly successful music hall for over a quarter of a century. Mirrors covered much of the walls of the main hall, and light was provided by a gas-burning chandelier made from 27,000 cut crystals. (A similar "sunburner" chandelier can still be seen at the restored Gaiety Theatre, Isle of Man.)
Famous performers at Wilton's included George Leybourne ("Champagne Charlie") under the guidance of impresario William Holland ("The British Barnum"). The picture above shows Wiltons in 1871, at the height of its success.
During renovation in 1895 the foundation stone of the music hall was discovered. The inscription on it reads:
The foundation stone of Wilton's Music Hall
was laid by
Ellen, wife of John Wilton
on Thursday the 9th day of December, 1858

To Great Apollo, God of early morn,
Who wakes the song of birds from Eastern sky,
We consecrate this shrine of gentle music;
Music that alternates from smiles to tears;
Smiles emanating from the purest mirth,
And tears of sympathy that speak not sadness.

Wilton's on Fire
In 1877 the building was gutted by fire. A local newspaper reported that, "The Hall presents a scene of utter destruction; here and there a portion of the balcony on either side rests on the tottering pillars underneath, and in other respects the interior is burnt to ashes, nothing but the bare walls remaining".
Undeterred, Wilton refitted the hall, and it was reopened on 16 September 1878. In his journal, Wilton recorded, "What a cheer from a packed auditorium greeted Mr Condell when the band struck up the National Anthem and Mr Estcourt took his place to introduce the artistes."


Earlier quote in part of this article………. "and there was a certain amount of "lampooning" of this tradition in the poor mans favourite entertainment of the day - The Music Hall."

Now, the Cockney is noted, for his spontaneous, quick wit, no better displayed in the writings & performing, of songs & routines in The Old Tyme Music Hall, & this my dear friends, is where an old connection/experience of mine becomes of relevance & value:-
In the 60's I had the wonderful experience of starting, developing & running a Folk Music Club in the South of England, called 'The Jug Of Punch'. One of the 'rare artists' that I had the pleasure of "booking" was a, then young musician called 'John Foreman'. John played a Steel Guitar, a 'Squeeze Box', Harmonica, &, of course, 'The Spoons'. On occasions, & as a rare treat, he would bring along to a gig a miniature 'Music Hall', which would then be setup for a full, end of performance, Shadow Puppet Show, with John providing all of the musical accompaniment, sound effects & Puppet Action……an amazing experience! I recently "dug up" an old L.P. copy of a record titled……The 'Ouses in Between'. What follows is a copy taken from the cover sleeve of this particular recording, & best describes & explains the true tradition of Cockney Music, & how the music of the Cockney was popularized through the Music halls 1890 – through until the Second World War. [Browse & enjoy]!

RY 1004

JOHN FOREMAN
………………….the ou'ses in between.

Cockney songs of vintage have a great charm and staying power. Ask an American tourist what he associates with London, and he'll probably say "the Cockney", and you can't say the word "Cockney" without conjuring up dozens of his songs. They are part of him-they are the Cockney's comment on life, his defiance, his unbeatable courage. He went to war on them, he starved on them in the lean days, he entertained the family with them, he danced to them, and, to the accompaniment of a (usually out-of-tune) piano, he drank to them in his local pub.
"IF THOSE LIPS COULD ONLY SPEAK" was his sob song; "THE 'OUSES IN BETWEEN" his putting-up with-it song-his making-the-best-of-if ballad; "THE AMATEUR WHITEWASHER" a do-it-yourself-to-save-the money song; "DOWN THE ROAD" the tribute to every coster's pony that ever trotted to the Derby.
Fun and poignancy, always the double-edged twins, are the key to these songs-certainly clever songs with clever tunes and clever lyrics, but no one ever thinks of them as songs in that sense. They are ejaculatory bursts of enthusiasm bound up with long and undying devotion to a tune the Cockney always did love: as the Englishman always loves a joke he knows, the Cockney always loves a song he knows. But-more to the point-a song his mum and dad knew.
I know you will love these songs. You will take them to your heart, play them to your friends, you'll try to imitate the inimitable Cockney of John Foreman. pick up his infectious good humour, do a nostalgic "Lambeth Walk" or "Knees up" round your parlour. And unless you're dead, insensitive, cynical or mean (and I know you're not or you wouldn't be about to buy or have this record) you will be caught by the catchiness, the audacity, the cheekiness of an L.P. which owes nothing to the "pop" world, the folk world, the classical world, but yet can be listened to by anyone. It's TAM rating is universal.
JOHN FOREMAN, born near Euston Station, is the son of a London postman, and on his mother's side is a Harper. In spite of the Blitz, he says, he had a happy childhood. There was some theatrical talent in the family: his father's mother, Elsie Naish, danced with and under' studied Adeline Gen6e. Through his mother he is related to Victoria Lytton who, to put it John's way, "worked the halls"; she eventually teamed up with Arthur Cunningham, a noted singer and whistler. His mother's Uncle Charlie, says John, worked as a clown, and his mother's grandfather was a circus ringmaster. John's songs are mostly learned from "Mum and Dad" but he learned a lot from going to places of entertainment, like music-halls, whenever he had a bob or two, also from watching, listening, and performing at London's Unity Theatre. It was there, incidentally, that he learned "THE FOUR-OSS SHARRYBANG" from Laurie Davies. He is married to a dancer, and has two children.
JOHN worked as a doorman at the Metropolitan, Edgware Road, and for a time was a "bottler" with a Punch and Judy man, Professor Alexander. (The "bottler" collects the money, does the front of the house and bangs the drum). He also busked and sold song sheets in Petticoat Lane: he is still known as "the Broadsheet King". The Broadsheets he produces and prints himself.


SIDE ONE

THE FOUR-OSS SHARRYBANG
(Corney Grain)
IF IT WASN'T FOR THE 'OUSES IN BETWEEN
(Le Brunn)
YOUR BABY 'AS GORN DAHN THE PLUG 'OLE
(Spade)
MARRIED TO A MERMAID
(Trad. arr. Farran)
PRETTY POLLY PERKINS
(Trad. arr. Farran)
DON'T GO DOWN THE MINE, DAD
(Geddes)
THE HOB-NAILED BOOTS THAT FARVER WORE
(Weston & Barnes)

SIDE TWO

I LIVE IN TRAFALGAR SQUARE
(Murphy arr. Farran)
DOWN THE ROAD
(Gilbert arr. Farran)
IF THOSE LIPS COULD ONLY SPEAK
(Ridgwell & Godwin)
THE AMATEUR WHITEWASHER
(Murray & Leigh)
VILLIKINS AND HIS DINAH
(Trad. arr. Farran)
THE WINKLE SONG
(Trad. arr. Farran)
CAPTAIN GINJAH, O.T.
(Leigh)



This Is John's background, and he is proud of it, as he is equally proud of the fact that he is a teacher, and has taught in practically every kind of school; is now in Further Education, a profession that leads him into all sorts of hobbies and interests. He is also a founder member of the very recently-formed British Music Hall Society, which puts out records and keeps archives, and he himself has quite a collection of printed material and bills relating to the music-hall, for which he has a very great love. John helped dismantle Collins Music Hall when it was burned down: he has broadcast and televised. Don't ask me where he finds the time to, but he entertains in folk clubs as well-he calls them "the poor man's music-hall," but I think a man who can appreciate the infectious songs of the Cockney music-hall is rich indeed.

Sleeve design: Ray Kinsey                           Photo: James Normington                                  Produced by W. Merrick Farron

REALITY RECORDS LTD., NORTH WATFORD, HERTS.


For more information on the history of The Cockney browse:-

www.cockney.co.uk

For more information on The British Music Hall:-

http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~dumsday/abtmhall.htm


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,ALR
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 01:27 AM

Does anybody have music for "Down The Road (Away Went Polly)"? This is for a stage show I'm doing about music hall. I also need "It's A Bit Of A Ruin That Cromwell Knocked About A Bit", "Oh, It's A Lovely War", and "Everything Is Fresh Today".

Thanks in advance for your help.

Allen Lewis Rickman


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,Thuppy007
Date: 09 May 09 - 07:56 AM

Hi
Does anyone know the lyrics and chords to a song called Cousin of Mine


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,Crag Ender
Date: 26 May 09 - 07:51 AM

Does anyone have the words to 'My Old Brown 'at'Flowers and Frolics sing it on the CD Bees on Horseback


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: scmcg
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 04:30 AM

Can anyone help with the words of a song, please? The first line is       " When you're working in the dark, down below. " The subject matter is working in the sewers of London. I first heard it about 50 years ago and would like to use it in a concert some friends are putting together.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 04:35 AM

Down Below, by Sydney carter

Cheers
Nigel


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: sid
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 05:33 PM

I would love to have some Cockneys at the Fylde Dialect Day in September. It will be the first national gathering of English Dialect performers and writers and I hope it will be the first of an annual series travelling the country. Talks, competitions, concert and singaround. We have people coming from Cornwall, Norfolk, Lincolnshire, Derbyshire, Northumbria, Lake District, Yorkshire and Lancashire but nothing as yet from the southeast.

Get to us through www.thelancashiresociety.org.uk (events) or me at sidcalderbank.co.uk. - Come on - have a go!! Make it truly National.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 05:40 PM

cockneys have to beborn within the sound of Bow bells.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,Gary- Hut People
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 06:23 PM

I was born in The London Hospital on Whitechapel Road and I am a Bethnal Green lad who now lives in Hull. It is true that to be a cockney you have to be born within the sound of the Bow Bells, you might have heard them in the 1800's, but with the traffic as it is now you are lucky to hear someone in the same room as you!


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,Alex Fitt
Date: 31 Mar 11 - 05:20 AM

I have snatches of lyrics in my head but can't place the song:

"aye, aye, aye, kippers a penny-a-pair
(bloaters?) three for tupence, you can get them anywhere
the best place in London is down on donkey (row/road?)
and when you go by, you get a black eye and a punch on top of the nose".

Any help would be appreciated

Please e-mail me at joycealex@yahoo.com

Thanks.


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Subject: Lyr Add: NINE INCH NAILS (H M Burnaby)
From: reynard
Date: 21 Feb 12 - 10:11 AM

So back in '99 Alan B asked for the words of "Nine inch Nails" and Steve Parkes obliged ... except that it turns out that was just the chorus to a three verse song. I myself heard this from John Foreman about 50 years ago and it stuck- I think John was the source for the above as he paired it with "On Monday, I never go to work" etc and didn't sing the whole piece. Two weeks ago I was speaking to John (who is in good health and still getting around) and asked him about it. He told me that there were three verses and that he would send me the words; but he couldn't find them and now he can only remember the first verse! This is verbatim what he wrote to me:

Johnson- a commercial travellor- was a pushful man,
He pushed his goods as only a commercial travellor can-
He had a special line and it was ironmongery,
And everywhere he went he always murmered hopefully:

I can't find nobody who don't want to buy no nine inch nails.
They do go in, not half they don't, they do make holes, not half they won't.
I know the King, I know the Queen, I know the Prince of Wales (all pubs!)
But I don't know nobody that don't want no nine inch nails.

Does that jog any memories? John said there was a recording.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,The Walrus
Date: 22 Feb 12 - 05:32 AM

But at one point Bow Bells were broadcast by the BBC - Does that mean everyone in range od British domestic radio stations are Cockney?

Tom


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: davyr
Date: 22 Feb 12 - 05:54 AM

Yus - But only in the same way that everybody who says they like Riverdance is "honorary Irish".


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Subject: NINE INCH NAILS
From: reynard
Date: 22 Feb 12 - 09:23 AM

The short answer, Walrus, is "no".
If you want a longer answer, that would be, "Nooooooooooooo".

Now to return to my question, I have just purchased,from Amazon UK, for the sum of £1.08, a second hand copy of "Cockney Ding Dong" by Charles Keeping (as recommended by John Foreman). This is an excellent collection with all the old favourites- including "On Monday I never go to work" which is given with the "Nine inch nails" chorus just as John used to sing it. But John insists there is a longer song, the first verse of which I gave above. He did say "It's not much of a song, I wouldn't want to sing it", but I beg to differ. To me it shines like a gem on a dungheap. Is this treasure to be lost to posterity?


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 06:32 AM

This is a song thread & should be above the line - elf to fix, please?


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Flash Company
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:30 AM

From Sidney Carter of 'Lord of the Dance' fame

Me farver was a cupid an' me muvver wheeled a barrer,
That's why I'm 'ere in Piccadilly wiv me bow and arrer,
CH
One leg up an' one leg darn, like an old cock-sparrer,
Flyin' over Piccadilly wiv me bow an' arrer!

Caesar came across the sea an' thought the girls were pretty,
Look at all the Roman noses walkin round the city.
CH

William came to conquer us an' now we have some Yanks, sir
If you look like Billy Clinton you know who to thank , sir
CH

What's the Cockney pedigree, I'm surprised you ask it
Everybody's gone and stuck a bun into the basket.
CH

FC
(The President of the US changes to suit circumstances, I think it was Jimmy Carter when Sidney wrote it!)


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Subject: Lyr Add: TOTTIE ("DAGONET"/G. R. SIMS)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:46 AM

John S. Farmer's Canting Songs and Slang Rhymes
TOTTIE (1887)
By "DAGONET" (G. R. SIMS) in Referee, 7 Nov..

I   As she walked along the street
With her little 'plates of meat,' (feet
And the summer sunshine falling
On her golden 'Barnet Fair,' (hair)
Bright as angels from the skies
Were her dark blue 'mutton pies.' (eyes)
In my 'East and West' Dan Cupid (breast)
Shot a shaft and left it there.

II She'd a Grecian 'I suppose,' (nose)
And of 'Hampstead Heath' two rows, (teeth)
In her 'Sunny South' that glistened (mouth)
Like two pretty strings of pearls;
Down upon my 'bread and cheese' (knees)
Did I drop and murmur, 'Please
Be my "storm and strife," dear Tottie, (wife)
O, you darlingest of girls!'

III Then a bow-wow by her side, (dog)
Who till then had stood and tried
A 'Jenny Lee' to banish, (flea)
Which was on his 'Jonah's whale,' (tail)
Gave a hydrophobia bark,
(She cried, 'What a Noah's Ark!') (lark)
And right through my 'rank and riches' (breeches)
Did my 'cribbage pegs' assail. (legs)

IV Ere her bull-dog I could stop
She had called a 'ginger pop,' (slop = policeman)
Who said, 'What the "Henry Meville" (devil)
Do you think you're doing there?'
And I heard as off I slunk,
'Why, the fellow's "Jumbo's trunk!" (drunk)
And the 'Walter Joyce' was Tottie's (voice)
With the golden 'Barnet Fair.' (hair)

Jim Carroll


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Subject: Lyr Add: NINE INCH NAILS (H M Burnaby)
From: reynard
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 11:38 AM

Ever get the feeling you are talking to yourself?
Yes Reynard. Spooky isn't it?

So here's the answer to my question about "Nine Inch Nails".
(Thanks to those friendly and well-informed folk at the British Music Hall Society)


NINE INCH NAILS
(Written by H M Burnaby)

Johnson- a commercial travellor- was a pushful man,
He pushed his goods as only a commercial travellor can-
He had a special line and it was ironmongery,
And everywhere he went he always murmered hopefully:

Oh you don't know nobody what don't want to buy no nine inch nails?
They do go in, not half they won't, they do make holes, not half they don't.
I served the King, the Queen, the Ace, also the Prince of Wales!
But you don't know nobody what don't want to buy no nine inch nails?

Once he met a motorist who'd had an accident.
All the road was strew'd with tin tacks, all his tyres were bent.
Some broken bottles lay around, the poor chap's luck was out.
Said Johnson, "Here's where I come in!" and then he began to shout:

Johnson started courting; quite a pretty girl was she.
He couldn't pop the question for a nervous man was he.
They'd sit together in the park and while the hours away.
Instead of a proposal this is all he'd ever say:

Performed 1924 by Jay Laurier - WINDYCDR39 - Let's have a Jolly Good Cry
recording available from
http://www.musichallcds.com/jay_laurier.htm

Tune to follow
                                                                                                               CL


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Subject: Tune Add: NINE INCH NAILS (H M Burnaby)
From: reynard
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 09:31 AM

X:1
T: Nine Inch Nails
C: H M Burnaby
M: C
L:1/4
K: D
a,^a,b,_b,|a,^a, b,_b,|a,e,e,^d,|E3,e,|
a,^a,b,_b,|a,^a,b,_b,|a,e,e,^d,|E3,a,|
a,^a,b,_b,|a,^a,b,^b,|c',e,e,^d,|E3,^e,|
f,d',c',b,|e,c',b,a,|a,^g,f,g,|A3,B3/4,B/4,|
a,a,a, B3/4,_B/4,|a,a,a,b,|c,g,g,f,|G3,a,|
b,a,b,a,|b,a,b,c',|d',d,d,e,|c,e,a,a|
b,a,d',b,|a,g,g,g,|g,f,b,f,|E3,B/2,_B/2,|
a,a,a,B3/4,_B/4,|a,a,a,b,|g,a,b,c',|d3',z|


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,tedbone
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 03:31 PM

hairs on your old tut tut anyone no this song.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,Peter Brown
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 08:49 AM

Great to see the words of these old songs again. I remember seeing John Foreman perform them at Maidenhead Folk Club in the 60s. A few years later as a young journalist on a training session I was astonished to bump into him again at the London College of Printing (I think), somewhere near St Bride's, where he was teaching. A scholar and a gent. I've been waiting ever since to see the full words of 'one leg up and one leg down', which I've always remembered. I think he also did "I can't get my winkle out' but I may be wrong.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 12:08 PM

For a more modern 'cockney' song This thread includes "Arthur Daley, E's alright" by "The Firm", a song based on the long running tv show "Minder"


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 01:52 PM

Have just come across this- havent read it all, but even though I am of a Northern persuasion, it seems strange to me that no-one has mentioned that excellent singer of London songs, one 'Lucky' Luckhurst, who spent his latter years in Swindon, and as a regular at the folksingers club there. I have a cassette of his songs and please note that John Foreman has been known to refer to him as the 'Guv'nor'
I don't think Lucky's excellent cassette has ever got onto CD so if I ever master the technology, I'd be glad to supply copies!


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,Jackie
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 11:47 AM

Trying to find a song with words lover and mother in ?? Any ideas


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 16 - 07:10 AM

Last line of verse 1 of Down the Road mentions "jimmies in a bag". Does anyone have any idea of the origin/meaning of jimmies in this context? For while I thought 'Jimmy Jewels' but the song is too early for that reference.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 08 Aug 16 - 10:31 AM

Jimmies = Guineas (near rhyme jocularisation)


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 08 Aug 16 - 05:38 PM

Jimmies short for Jimmy O'Goblins.

Jimmy O'Goblin = Sovereign A gold coin long before decimalisation of the UK currency.

Where the O'Goblin comes from I have no idea. I can't ask my dad as he's long gone but he and his chinas would often use the term.


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: GUEST,Roger Wooller
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 08:57 PM

I'm really keen to hear the tune for "Nine Inch Nails" by H M Burnaby. Can you or anyone else put it up on youtube please?


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 04:06 AM

This is called the (something) Polka. The missing word is a district of London which I've forgotten.

There's been a body in the house
Since father passed away.
He took bad on Saturday night
And he went the following day.
Mum's pulled the blinds all down
And bought some cherry wine.
And she's put the tin
What the arsenic's in
At the bottom of the Serpentine.

I particularly love the Cockney pronunciation of house - 'aaahss'


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Subject: RE: Norf and Sarf - cockney songs
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 04:59 AM

If you copy the 'ABC' provided by Reynard above:
X:1
T: Nine Inch Nails
C: H M Burnaby
M: C
L:1/4
K: D
a,^a,b,_b,|a,^a, b,_b,|a,e,e,^d,|E3,e,|
a,^a,b,_b,|a,^a,b,_b,|a,e,e,^d,|E3,a,|
a,^a,b,_b,|a,^a,b,^b,|c',e,e,^d,|E3,^e,|
f,d',c',b,|e,c',b,a,|a,^g,f,g,|A3,B3/4,B/4,|
a,a,a, B3/4,_B/4,|a,a,a,b,|c,g,g,f,|G3,a,|
b,a,b,a,|b,a,b,c',|d',d,d,e,|c,e,a,a|
b,a,d',b,|a,g,g,g,|g,f,b,f,|E3,B/2,_B/2,|
a,a,a,B3/4,_B/4,|a,a,a,b,|g,a,b,c',|d3',z|
And paste it into the site at: MandolinTab
That will provide the music in stave notation, and the option to listen to it as a MIDI.


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