BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 05:22 PM

Agreed, but we have to recognise what we've got before we can try to improve it.

I was set upon as a racist for raising this very point in another thread.

The problem is that racism, abortion, homosexual rights ect have become political issues. If one is "on the left" or a "rightwinger", one is expected to have certain views on these issues corresponding to ones political view. This attitude inhibits reasoned discussion, which is a necessity if solutions are to be found.

All too often we fall back into our trenches whenever any of these subjects come up and of course the politician have a vested interest in our continued ignorance..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 03:39 PM

ethnic minorities living in the same cities but in completely separate areas My point was that a lot of the time when people are bellyaching about multiculturalism, that is what they mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 03:08 PM

McGrath......Please don't treat this as "party political", but in Scotland multiculturalism is a misnomer.

What we have is ethnic minorities living in the same cities but in completely separate areas...They do not want to integrate, for religious and cultural reasons. The Asians have come to despise the Scots city dwellers, seeing our way of life as dissolute.

They see a defeated people dependent on a benefit system which robs them of any sense of worth.Life expectancy less than anywhere else in Britain. Drug addiction rife among the youth....Why would they want to integrate..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 02:39 PM

"Muticuklturalism" - "diversity".

Are those supposed to be alternatives or the same thing?

What I mean is, half the time when people start sounding off about "multiculturalism" they seem to be objecting to people with a range of different cultures living alongside each other in mixed up neighbouroods, and the other half objecting to them living in separate neighborhoods.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: pdq
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 11:05 AM

"The cosy idea of multiculturalism as the panacea for all our problems does not work..." ~ Akenation

It's not easy to find a statement by Ake that I can agree with but that one is accurate.

Also, according to Harvard political science professor Robert Putnam (a raving liberal):

"Diversity does not produce 'bad race relations,' Putnam says. Rather, people in diverse communities tend 'to withdraw even from close friends, to expect the worst from their community and its leaders, to volunteer less, give less to charity and work on community projects less often, to register to vote less, to agitate for social reform more, but have less faith that they can actually make a difference, and to huddle unhappily in front of the television.' Putnam adds a crushing footnote: his findings 'may underestimate the real effect of diversity on social withdrawal.'

Neither age nor disparities of wealth explain this result. 'Americans raised in the 1970s,' he writes, 'seem fully as unnerved by diversity as those raised in the 1920s.' And the 'hunkering down' occurred no matter whether the communities were relatively egalitarian or showed great differences in personal income. Even when communities are equally poor or rich, equally safe or crime-ridden, diversity correlates with less trust of neighbors, lower confidence in local politicians and news media, less charitable giving and volunteering, fewer close friends, and less happiness."

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 10:37 AM

Seems the devices were very basic in design ...2 gas canisters ...can of petrol...box of nails...no word so far of a detonator.

In fact the traffic people had time to tow one vehicle to the car pound before discovering the bomb.

Looks like another one of Blair's "legacies", just like 21/7 and 7/7.and they have the gall to say the UK is not in more danger after Iraq!!
Our society is badly broken...and we've got to start looking at our "ethnic community ghettos" and working out how our foreign policy impacts on them.

The cosy idea of multiculturalism as the panacea for all our problems does not work. Time to start being more pro-active, trying to understand why there is hatred against a global system which wishes to wipe out every other culture.

If we cannot start using our brains instead of our WMD's, then the future looks very bleak...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 12:43 PM

Peter. I'm sure you're right.

I haven't visited Vietnam, so I was only talking about what I've seen reported on my TV screen. Looked like the economy was in the shit in a sort of cold war European way - compare this to what the Yanks did for the Japanese after the war.

As for the IRA view being the minority view, I can't disprove that either, now I come to think of it.
so I suppose you're right.

I still can't see why Gordon Brown is to be considered such a disaster for our country. I think he's more patriotic than anyone on the tory side - during the Thatcher years they governed the country for the benefit of a tiny minority . He's got a more 'whole UK' view than anything else we're looking at.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 09:51 AM

Vietnam has recovered amazingly well. But the victims of the war haven't - including those affected by the use of "Agent Orange" - here's a link to a Google page of picture links.    And not one penny paid to them as reparations by the US government that did it.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 09:18 PM

Warning: thread drift....

WLD, I lived in and around Belfast throughout the troubles, talked to many soldiers, met many people they "policed," and saw them on active service. I never heard one talk about civil war. Quite the reverse: they were at pains to challenge the provo line that there was a war, because a war might have legitimised paramilitary action and would have given weight to those who argued that convicted criminals were political prisoners.

Re Vietnam, the country seems to have recovered remarkably well despite the defoliation and utter devastation visited on it by America. Whether it would have fared better under a US-installed Pinochet figure is debatable. What is surely beyond argument is that it would have been in immeasurably better shape without the war.

Oh, but I was forgetting - such considerations don't come into it. It's the contracts, duh.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 05:44 PM

It didn't happen in Germany.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: GUEST,free born heed
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 04:37 PM

Why gordon brown as prime minsiter is a problem via quotes!
(sorry by the length, buy you can always read selectively)

"Gordon Brown has no mandate to govern on domestic matters anywhere in the UK, not in Wales, not in Northern Ireland, not in England and not in Scotland, where his constituents elected him to represent them on a very narrow range of issues relating to matters reserved from the Scottish Parliament. He is democratically unaccountable for 70% of the legislation passed through Westminster, which relates only to English domestic matters. The legitimacy of his premiership must be seriously questioned." Scilla Cullen, Campaign for an English Parliament

"Gordon Brown has an absolute moral duty to stop Scottish Labour MPs, including himself, from speaking or voting on this question. It may be the hard necessity of devolution that English MPs can do nothing to help English students in Scotland. But it is outrageous that Scottish MPs should be presuming, unreciprocally, to decide the financial arrangements of English students in England. " Boris Johnson MP, Shadow Misister for Education

"I'm beginning to think it is almost impossible now to have a Scottish Prime Minister because they would be at odds with the basic construction of the British constitution. We have MPs from Scotland essentially telling England what to do when they are doing the opposite in Scotland, have no control over what they are doing in their own constituencies in Scotland and are not in any way accountable for the effects their actions have in England. " Alan Duncan MP

"If, before the end of this decade, the English are ruled by a Scottish Prime Minister, relying on the votes of Scottish MPs to implement his policies, the United Kingdom could head towards divorce. " Steven King, Special Advisor to David Trimble

"Mr. Brown has talked about "devolution", but has amazingly managed not to mention the "West Lothian Question"- a by-product of devolution, and the reason why he should not become Prime Minister. " Campaign for an English Parliament Press Release

"Its a bit odd to have a PM deciding on crucial issues of domestic policy when the people who elected him have a very different system. " Tam Dalyell

"Many Scots voted for devolution because they were sick of always being saddled with the government England chose. Now English people are entitled to ask why they should be saddled with Scots who represent neither England nor, on many issues, their own constituencies." Ian Bell, Glasgow Herald

"There is an elephant in the room which is being addressed, which is, if Scotland has devolution, then Scottish MPs should not be responsible for putting through controversial legislation. That will be thrown into stark relief if we have a prime minister from Scotland." Ed Vaizey MP

"Brown lacks both the mandate and the moral authority to govern England, and if he becomes Prime Minister this fact will be used as a stick to beat him regardless of whether or not he does a good job. This is the problem with asymmetric devolution, a legacy for which Gordon Brown himself should shoulder at least some of the responsibility." Gareth Young, Campaign for an English Parliament

"If Gordon Brown wants to be Prime Minister of a United Kingdom, he must recognise that the Tories are on to something when they seek to tie up the loose ends of devolution. And, if he doesn't like their proposals, he must come up with some of his own."Leader, The Observer

"[Gordon Brown] is right to worry that a Scot who has used English taxpayers as a milch-cow might be a prime minister with a very limited shelf life. And it would be foolish not to acknowledge that a Scottish prime minister with a Scottish constituency will highlight afresh the constitutional anomaly."John Major, The Telegraph

"The [Scottish] Claim of Right was a public oath, and those who took it pledged to put the interests of the Scottish people before all others. How can Gordon Brown, who took this oath, become Prime Minister of the United Kingdom? He must declare that he will put the interests of the whole of the UK before those of Scotland"". Tom Waterhouse, Campaign for an English Parliament

"The stakes for him are enormous. The Tories narrowly won the popular vote in England at the last general election. If Labour loses Scotland next month, David Cameron will be able to hit Gordon Brown with a double whammy. The Tory leader can portray Gordon Brown as a Prime Minister without a mandate from either England or his native land." Andrew Rawnsley, Observer

"The question is all the more pertinent because a Brown government is likely to encapsulate all Jeremy Paxman's greatest fears about being run by a cabal of Scots colonialists. Along with Brown (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath), his Cabinet will definitely contain close allies Alistair Darling (Edinburgh South West) - probably as Chancellor of the Exchequer - Douglas Alexander (Paisley and Renfrewshire South), and Defence Secretary Des Browne (Kilmarnock and Loudoun). John Reid (Airdrie and Shotts) may also cling on. " Eddie Barnes, Scotland on Sunday

http://www.thecep.org.uk

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 03:14 PM

What would America "winning" in Vietnam have meant ? They "won" in Iraq. That just means they are stuck there until they go, and then the regime they leave behind them will collapse. Which is what happened in Vietnam.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 01:36 PM

No I don't think we should have got involved in Vietnam. Not for any moral reasons - simply that America wasn't pretty semi detached. half the Americans you spoke to at the time, didn't seem to think their country was fighting for a just cause. Its not really fair to your soldiers - to ask them to fight in such circumstances.

At the time I was one of the students marching on Grosvenor Square, but nowadays I do think Vietnam would have been better off if America had won.

The leader of the Opposition at the time (Heath) said we should have a couple of divisions of men in there and not be 'just cheering from the sidelines' - and he won the next election.

However the Labour government of the time could see all the Ellsberg stuff that was going on, and decided we should stay out. The Home Secretary at the time even disobeyed his prime minister and went to meet the Vietcong delegate to some sort of conference in France.

And I do think The American administration took a very dim view and contracts that should have come England's way didn't. I believe a price was extracted for our perceived treachery.

Furthermore after the ballsups of the Callaghan years, I think the pressure was on Blair not to screw up the economy. And the Yanks saw him as unknown quantity after so many years of conservative rule - so he had to win their approval.

So not a moral judgement - just my assessment of what went on behind the headlines.

And if you don't think NI was at various times in the last 30 years on a civil war footing - you either have a short memory, or you should get out more - talk to a few of the soldiers who served and the people they policed.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 10:02 PM

So 88 per cente of Brits want a referendum, bemused. Not a word there about how they'd vote. Yet that's your proof that the British voted down participation in the EU. What an agile mind.

Weelittledrummer, you really think we should have got embroiled in the "Vietnam nonsense" because we paid a high price for staying out of it? You think issues like Iraq should be decided on the basis of what they cost?

Oh, and if you think Northern Ireland was "a civil war situation" (!) visit Mostar some time.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 07:40 PM

"Can't revolution today - there's something good on the telly"

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:06 PM

My goodness, GUEST,bemused, you certainly have a powerful hunger for both one-on-one violence and violence on a massive scale.

I met a lot of your kind back in the 1960s. "Start the Revolution NOW!!!"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Rog Peek
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 05:41 PM

As far as I'm concerned, Gordon can go get lost, I'm certainly not picking up the soap.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: GUEST,free born heed
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 05:30 PM

Gorodon brown, a Scottish MP is now First Minister of England, in charge of policies such as English health, transport and education. He has no say on the Scottish equivilant because that is controlled by the Scottish Parliamnet and their First Minister Alex Salmond. Yet he denies the English the same right of self-determiniation becasue he kows he can't rule 85% of the UK if he does. So much for democracy in England. Home rule for England!!

see this for more:
http://thecep.org.uk/news/?p=72

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Gedpipes
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 01:18 PM

I love him.
I think he's great.
Plays a mean mandolin too.

Blue skies
Ged

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: GUEST,bemused
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 01:18 PM

Then get rid of him, however you do it over there. Have him in to tea and tell him he's caused a spot of bother or something. Lay a pointy stick on the tea tray so he'll know you mean business (you don't have guns). Or better yet, lay one of these on the tray:

http://www.chopperaxe.com/whatis.htm

I've ordered one so that I can take the lead the next time I dance with my mesquite logs. Aren't they about to outlaw knives in Britain? Would something like this be allowed?

Yeah, tea and a chopperaxe. Some of that British understatement.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: GUEST,Alfred
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 01:16 PM

He takes the same line as Mr Blair on Iraq. I fully support the British and American policy in Iraq and if taxation has to rise because of it, so be it.

Please understand what these poor people had to live through, also we can not have terrorists running the world.

I say Support your government in the stance it took.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Stu
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 12:37 PM

Yeah - Gordon is a Moron!

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Rog Peek
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 12:18 PM

He also prevented a whole lot of classic cars (part of our heritage) from qualifying for tax exemption. Still I guess he needed every penny he could get to fund the invasion of Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: alanabit
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 09:13 AM

I'm confused by this kind of company. Did I do something wrong to get in here? I came in voluntarily, so can I go home now?

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: GUEST,woodsie
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 08:04 AM

This creeping shit Brown stole my pension, sold English gold at a third of it's market value to the fucking Chinese, used to bring a bag of empty beer cans to parties when he was a student and is Scottish! - Don't you just hate him!

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 07:39 AM

"I simply write poems on my ballot paper and exercise my right not to vote for any of the wasters we have here (note: I do turn up to actually cast my ballot though)."

Good for you, Stigweard! The ballot box may not count for much these days - but it's the only power we've got! If you don't like the party in power, vote for an alternative (NEVER vote Tory, of course - goes without saying!). And if you don't like what your chosen alternative is doing, when they get into power, vote against them. Nevertheless, when the opportunity presents itself, ALWAYS "cast your ballot".

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: GUEST,Zach
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:13 AM

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Stu
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:02 AM

This guy's taking the piss.

FYI bemused wolfy:
Tosser Noun. An idiot, a contemptible person.

A bit strong for the Queen perhaps so I take that back. I'd apply the term to the entire Royal Family (and the rest of the aristocracy, come to think of it).

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: GUEST,bemused
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 12:30 AM

Geez. Let me add the comma..."And yes I've posted under that name, Wolfgang." The queen's a tosser, stigweard? You've violated no law that I can see because I don't know what the hell a tosser is.

Let's see...civil war. Well, the U.S. has been taken over by gangsters. The federal government is literally mafia-run. We have a constitution and an 1805 Supreme Court ruling that says "any law repugnant to the constitution is void," so a crunch is coming. All these recent fascist laws are repugnant to the constitution.

I know we Americans are self-centered, but the world does need to heed the importance of our Bill of Rights. It allows us to keep our freedom through force of arms, if necessary. And our big federal government feels threatened by that, so an effort is under way to destroy the Bill of Rights. No one here WANTS to fight a civil war, but the animals in power killed 3000 on September 11, 2001, and they're currently clusterbombing babies in Iraq. That's not acceptable.

Eventually the federal govt will force a shooting skirmish, and then the federal war machine will be unleashed on Americans. Personally, I hope it starts here in Texas. America may have fought a war for independence, but Texas is the only state that fought a separate war for independence. That's why so much federal focus is put on Texas. The spirit of independence is pretty strong here. None of us WANT to kill feds, but we're all ready to, if the need arises. And we know that the first group to be targeted by the feds will be annihillated, but that's fine. The Alamo was a diversionary battle, so a larger force could be assembled elsewhere, and that's what we expect here, now. We'll be crushed after a hell of a fight, but the rest of the country will have time to organize and hopefully deal with the feds swiftly and decisively.

Seriously, folks, crush them like bugs. They plan to do the same to you. Just like Blair and Brown plan to crush whoever gets in the way of their plan to destroy Britain. Hitler was a gibbering fool compared to the monsters in power now.

Have a nice day :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: alanabit
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 11:47 PM

Damned right.
I detest the Iraq War too. Now will Tony Blair's critics tell me if they are prepared to pay for an independent British foreign policy?

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 10:15 AM

don't worry wolfie, your regular readers worked that one out.

I supose we get weir ideas of America - never living there, and seeing it on folms all the time.

Your post struck us as rather strange. We're only just pulling out of a civil war situation in Northern Ireland, and it seems incredible to any of us that someone could view with equanimity the possibility of armed insurrection. All those guns have bullets that hurt and kill people.

Most Americans and Canadians visiting our shores really love the degree of freedom afforded in this country - both political, personal and artistic.

The Labour Party currently in power is not the party most often associated with cutting corners in democratic process by means of the secret service. According to defecting British Secret Agent, the Conservative party used the secret service to destabilise an elected government in the 1970's. But its only rumours - they were a pretty crap government, and didn't need much destabilising.

Gordon Brown, who has taken over from Tony Blair hasn't much charisma, but he has a better record on taking a stand for human rights than many of his critics.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:49 AM

Ged,

can it be that you have misinterpreted the following sentence by "bemused":
yes I've posted under that name Wolfgang

I have addressed in my post bemused by the name of Froth for I was rather sure that bemused is the same person who under ever changing names starts threads how the world is controlled by a small gang of evil people, puppetmasters...

Bemused has told me I was right and left out a comma that would have prevented a misinterpretation.

Wolfgang (who only posts as Wolfgang)

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Stu
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:38 AM

"I believe it's against the law, even, under your 'hate speech' rules, to criticize the government"

Ha ha - this bloke is brilliant!

The Government are wankers!
The Queen is a tosser!
George Bush is a turd!
Stigweards are fat bastards!

There - not against the law at all. And I do believe those statements.

"Our main problem is that we are now getting a Prime Minister that nobody in the electorate voted for - the way I see it, anyway."

This has happened before - Thatcher to Major, Wilson to Callaghan etc. It doesn't amtter what I vote where I live, an old scrotum of a Tory gets in regardless. I simply write poems on my ballot paper and exercise my right not to vote for any of the wasters we have here (note: I do turn up to actually cast my ballot though).

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:39 AM

What I find interesting is how all the focus is on who is PM. If, as many people claim, the current state of the economy is strongly influenced by how Gordon ran things, then you would have thought someone - the city, the media or whoever - would be concerned as to how that job will be run over the next few years. But there's remarkably little comment about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Gedpipes
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:35 AM

er actually the electorate don't vote for a prime minister greycap.

thanks for all of that constructive input Wolfgang bemused.

Ged

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:17 AM

Nobody actually voted for Blair, apart from some gullible people living in his constituency.

It's interesting that no one ever seems to refer to Blair as being Scottish, though of course he is, by birth, upbringing, descent and education. He just got rid of the accent and found an English parliamentary constituency.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 12:20 AM

Our main problem is that we are now getting a Prime Minister that nobody in the electorate voted for - the way I see it, anyway.
He has the charisma of roadkill.
'Coutse, he's JAFP, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 08:09 PM

I think wld is referring to the differences between Labour and Conservative in government McGrath.
As the self confessed heir to Thatcher, Blair has rendered those stark choices rather blurred at the edges and I have no reason to believe that Macavity will not continue along the same lines.

You a correct to point out that the Conservatives do not come into the electoral equation in Scotland, but they do stand to benefit greatly from any increase in the Nationalist vote.
Salmond is playing a very clever populist game at the moment, bringing forward initiatives which appeal to the elderly, students, house owners ect and if Westminster tries to protest he will portray them as "skinflints"
Salmond is also attempting to dismantle the barrier of religious sectarianism by reaching out to both the Republicans and the Unionists in Northern Ireland....a risky syrategy ,but one which could pay big dividends domestically.

In addition Salmonds oratorial skills mean that he is making mincemeat of the Labour opposition in holyrood debates and his pithy sound bites ensure that he is constantly visible in the Scottish media.

Macavity is in a no win situation, sabotaged by the mad Blair who by holding on to power for too long has done massive ,and I think intentional, damage to the Labour Party, and outflanked by an energised and cunningly lead SNP, he finds himself with nowhere to run but into the deathly embrace of messrs Campbell and Ashdown..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: GUEST,bemused
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 07:45 PM

Well I hope we amuse weelittledrummer. And yes I've posted under that name Wolfgang. We can quit playing hide the salami now. As far as my thinking on the EU goes, I just get my information from statements like: "A staggering 88% of British people would like to see a referendum on the new European constitution according to poll results released today...."

http://www.kc3.co.uk/~dt/opinion_polls.htm

Anyway, I don't know squat about Gordon Brown. I already admitted I'm woefully ignorant. This topic interests me though, because we have a similar situation in the US. GWBush is supposed to be from Texas, but he's not. He was born in Connecticut, went to school at Yale, and his family has a "compound" in Maine. About as far removed from Texas as you can get. But Bush adopts a fake accent and now the world is blaming us for his actions. But he's not from here. And we resent people thinking he is. So when I read that Brown is Scottish, and heard him talking about global government while he wrapped himself in the British flag, I saw parallels. He's like a British George Bush, but without depth perception.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 07:23 PM

the difference between Labour and Conservative. Those are the stark choices.

Not in Scotland they aren't. The Conservatives don't even register on the political scale ip there.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 05:24 PM

'His Legacy also means that Labour will never govern again in the UK.
Scotland the Labour "heartland" no longer recognises the gang of liars in Westminster as representative of the Scottish electorate.'


wishful thinking....if you'd lived on the bottom rung of society, Ake - you would appreciate the difference between Labour and Conservative. Those are the stark choices.

The Green Party for being Terribly Nice to Everybody never gets sod all votes.

The alternative to Blairite Labour is something much much worse, as we found out when we had that terrbly nice to Everybody candidate Mr Foot as leader of the labour party.

Labour paid a terrible price in terms of the economy for opting out of the Vietnam nonsense. I think those were the choices Blair was confronted with.

We will never know for certain; history of that sort doesn't find its way into the history books, and the dumbos who write for newspapers don't actually have the powers of cerebration to work it out. But that's my guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 04:42 PM

Poor Macavity....he waited so long, never raising his voice against the worst political crime in my lifetime, while Robin Cook resigned from the cabinet.
Oh no it was to be all right he would be Prime Minister...people would forget...the deaths would end...everything would be fine.

But what about "Blair's Legacy" Macavity?
Blair's decision to follow a mad American administration on a personal glory hunt has done more that any other issue to ensure Scottish independence and the break up of the UK.
His Legacy also means that Labour will never govern again in the UK.
Scotland the Labour "heartland" no longer recognises the gang of liars in Westminster as representative of the Scottish electorate.

Led by a street-wise First Minister the Nationalists look set to make a big impression on the voters on the run up to the next general election....and when the votes are all counted "Macavity won't be there"...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 04:11 PM

How so Rapaire? The Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are already independent, except for some very limited aspects of foreign policy. They aren't part of the United Kingdom, and never have been.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 04:01 PM

Manxmen Unite! Free The Channel Islands!

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Uncle Boko
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 02:45 PM

Is he a poove?

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Wolfgang
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 02:15 PM

Froth,

we know facts do not change your paranoid world view, but just to make it a bit more difficult for you to sing the same unchanged tune:

The only referendum the UK ever had about the EU membership

The electorate were asked to vote yes or no on the question: '"Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?" Every administrative county in the UK had a majority of "Yes", except the Shetland Islands and Western Isles.

"Yes" votes: 67,2 %

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 02:09 PM

Well, you said it, bemused - "I'm woefully ignorant"...

If Scotland votes to pull out of the United Kingdom,that's what'll happen. By now the English have learnt their lesson on that kind of thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 02:06 PM

Americans are great, aren't they....?

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: GUEST,bemused
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 01:57 PM

Wasn't it Stalin who said the death of one man is a tragedy but the deaths of a million are a statistic? The media (both sides of the Atlantic) focuses your attention on Brown's eye, his son, etc., while he steals rights wholesale. Why the hell would any of you care about Brown's family after what the man has done to you?

The problems in the US are well-known because we have freedom of speech, but the reserved Brits rarely comment on their fascist police state (I believe it's against the law, even, under your 'hate speech' rules, to criticize the government). Anyway, this Brown guy is a piece of work. If you people think some "change" has occurred...well, it hasn't. That's all I'm saying. From one fascist to another. But I guess your media is presenting you with the fake left/right stuff same as here, so a lot will go along with the lie. And then there's that fear of the soviet police coming to get you if you speak out against Her Majesty's Government. We haven't reached that point here yet, and if we ever do, well, there's the guns.

I thought Britain voted down participation in the EU. Don't polls show like 90% against joining? The international conglomerates that run the world learned from the EU fiasco, it seems, because over here they're trying to merge Canada, the US and Mexico by stealth.

And the Scottish independence thing really is interesting. If Scotland seceded, would England send in troops? Maybe that's why Brown was put in charge. He's Scottish, isn't he? Would he order the killing of his countrymen? Sounds like he was installed just to put some fear into the Scots. I'm surprised that he would support royalty that gives itself titles like Duke of Edinburgh. Like I said, he's a piece of work. Maybe you should think about getting rid of him.

Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown - Bend over, Britain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 01:26 PM

Britain's participation in the European Union even though you people voted that down.

When did that happen, bemused? ("I'm woefully ignorant"...)

Generally, in most of these disputes about Europe that get blown up every now and again in the media, I get the impression that the British Givernment, of all complexions, is generally on the wrong side.

When there was a referendum on whether to come out I remember I voted for coming out - on the grounds that British membership would be likely to screw it up for everyone else, and, on the whole, I think it's tended to work out that way. But from from the point of view of someone living here, I'd much sooner be in than out. I'm glad are neighbours are tolerant enough to put up with us.
.................................

I was pleased to see Gordon Brown mentioning disability rights in his first speech as party leader - of course he's lost an eye himself, and has a young son with Cystic Fibrosis. Good to have a PM at last who knows about that kind of stuff first hand.